Game 20: Phoenix Suns (11-8) @ New Orleans Pelicans (7-12) l Wednesday l 7:30pm l ESPN l FSNAZ

[Saberestar]

We're 20 games in boys... We look like a mostly great team on D, with a wildly inconsistent O that, when it's going bad, we let add that "mostly" to the D. Saric and Payne back will help but they aren't going to fix the issues with the starting unit, nor do I think they will result in adjustments to how we play... Maybe there is only so much Monty can do there, maybe this really is a ride-or-die 3pt shooting team based on the roster construction...could we at least play Moreyball the right way if that's what we want to do? This is the same ugly inconsistent ball we played for the majority of last year, except with a lot more 3s.

bw or saber, feel free to lay some optimism on me, I could use it. Maybe something like "our next 7 games are at home"?

We our currently 6th in the West.

And it looks like we are finally getting Saric back (not sure about Payne) for the next game.

5-8 are tied though, and 9 is a 1/2 game back of that and 10 is 1 game back. Two of those teams are missing key players too. Portland has also been without Nurkic for3 weeks and Memphis has been without JJJ and Justise Winslow all season and missed Ja for half their games.

Houston is only a game back and has missed a lot of time from Wall and Dipo. I think they are 5-0 when both are playing.

All of us can be positive or negative about the team, but the fact is that we are 6th in the West and if the season ended today we'd be a playoff team.

So yeah, we are on the right track and we are achieving our goals.

[bigfoot]

I'm not worried about the record right now with 70% of the season left. The Suns have had

A three-point loss
Two five-point losses
A four-point loss
Three overtime losses

Really seven of their nine losses were close games and many they held big leads they gave up. Plenty of time to figure things out plus players coming back like Saric and Payne. I believe Saric could have done a better job on Zion defensively and our bench misses him on offense.

Really our expectations might be 5 wins for every 3 losses. In a normal year that is a 52 win season which most of us would be happy to see.

[bwgood77]

We our currently 6th in the West.

And it looks like we are finally getting Saric back (not sure about Payne) for the next game.

5-8 are tied though, and 9 is a 1/2 game back of that and 10 is 1 game back. Two of those teams are missing key players too. Portland has also been without Nurkic for3 weeks and Memphis has been without JJJ and Justise Winslow all season and missed Ja for half their games.

Houston is only a game back and has missed a lot of time from Wall and Dipo. I think they are 5-0 when both are playing.

All of us can be positive or negative about the team, but the fact is that we are 6th in the West and if the season ended today we'd be a playoff team.

So yeah, we are on the right track and we are achieving our goals.

I've been positive, and are not blaming everyone on every mistake and didn't get that upset over this loss or the previous losses to bad teams...I was bothered in a recent one with a foul or two like that Doncic chest headbutt called on Ayton and some of the close losses to Denver were frustrating...

I am happy overall with how we've played, particularly without Saric and Payne and know we will be better when they get back.

However, I'm just stating facts with records here and other teams around us missing players. We are tied for the 6 seed right now...but there is a 4 way tie in the standings..we are placed there due to uneven games so it is going by slight win %s working out differently. Houston and GS right on everyone's tail but the good thing there is that we beat them, though we did lose to Memphis so lose that tiebreaker right now.

The west is just VERY tough and competitive, moreso than usual, with 14 teams in the mix (well 13 when OKC fades).

And I'm just trying to figure out our shooting woes and it seems that it happens when our offense is out of flow, and wonder why the team struggles when Booker and Paul share the floor but are better when one is on the floor.

[Jesus_H_Macy]

James Jones has to be frustrated. He keeps drafting and signing only guys who can hit the 3 and then he sees games like this. I just don't understand how everyone can be off at once. Unless it has something to do with offensive flow on those nights.

I think it's offensive flow, lack of guys picking their spots, and too many green lights. It seems at this point that the root of all those issues is that it's our offensive game plan to hunt 3s. And I suppose, like you mention, if that is how we built the team it would make sense on paper to do that. I lack the b-ball acumen to describe this in a better way, but it just looks like all our 3s are unnatural. It's like the play call is "we will shoot a 3 somehow someway" so all the guys just pass it around to each other along the 3pt line, maybe throw in a few drives here and there, but only to try to open up a 3, and the basketball gods are frowning hard on it. The 3s aren't coming out of a naturally efficient O that just happens to be taking the best shot the defense is giving us. There's no rhythm, we're just trying to manufacture them. Seems like teams know that's what we're gonna do so they don't really have to worry about guarding the drive and can just stick around the shooters. And then since we're taking bad shots and out of rhythm, we end up missing the occasional wide open ones too. Cam Johnson (I think it was you mentioning him) is way off with his shot this year...he looks beefy compared to the bubble, I think he might have put on some weight/muscle and it's throwing his shot off. I don't know where to find this stat, but he's probably shooting like 60% on corner 3s though.

He looks a little better from the right corner than the left corner, top of the circle or left wing, but his best spot seems to be the right wing if you look here.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsca02/shooting/2021

Nice, thanks for the tip. Didn’t realize bballref had these shooting stats. Is it the shot chart you’re looking at, or is it also showing the percentages from different areas somewhere?

[bwgood77]

I think it's offensive flow, lack of guys picking their spots, and too many green lights. It seems at this point that the root of all those issues is that it's our offensive game plan to hunt 3s. And I suppose, like you mention, if that is how we built the team it would make sense on paper to do that. I lack the b-ball acumen to describe this in a better way, but it just looks like all our 3s are unnatural. It's like the play call is "we will shoot a 3 somehow someway" so all the guys just pass it around to each other along the 3pt line, maybe throw in a few drives here and there, but only to try to open up a 3, and the basketball gods are frowning hard on it. The 3s aren't coming out of a naturally efficient O that just happens to be taking the best shot the defense is giving us. There's no rhythm, we're just trying to manufacture them. Seems like teams know that's what we're gonna do so they don't really have to worry about guarding the drive and can just stick around the shooters. And then since we're taking bad shots and out of rhythm, we end up missing the occasional wide open ones too. Cam Johnson (I think it was you mentioning him) is way off with his shot this year...he looks beefy compared to the bubble, I think he might have put on some weight/muscle and it's throwing his shot off. I don't know where to find this stat, but he's probably shooting like 60% on corner 3s though.

He looks a little better from the right corner than the left corner, top of the circle or left wing, but his best spot seems to be the right wing if you look here.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsca02/shooting/2021

Nice, thanks for the tip. Didn’t realize bballref had these shooting stats. Is it the shot chart you’re looking at, or is it also showing the percentages from different areas somewhere?

I was looking at shot chart...I don't see the area percentages on b-ref (other than rim and distance...which is interesting to look at...like Bridges has always been insane at the rim).

It's probably somewhere on nba.com/stats, where I was looking at Booker's catch and shoot 3pt% (over 42%) which is kind of crazy it's that high given his overall 3pt% is 34% https://www.nba.com/stats/players/catch-shoot/

Here is Booker's pull up 3pt% (26.9%) https://www.nba.com/stats/players/pullup/

[Jesus_H_Macy]

WTF was that Ayton? Paul waiting for you to post and you're just staying behind Adams not doing anything

Seriously you are on Ayton when Bridges and Cam already taken bone headed shots?

This wasn't 'taking a bad shot' bad. This was a, 'what the hell are you doing' bad. Paul setup to feed Ayton inside. Ayton jostled with Adams for a second for position and then gave up. He just stood there staring away from Paul and not moving. He gave up and waited for something else to happen while Paul was expecting him to fight to re-establish position.

I remember this exact play and was really confused by it. It looked to me like Ayton had established a position between Adams and the basket and was waiting for Paul to lob it over to him, but Paul just stared at him for like 3 seconds and then passed it somewhere else. I couldn’t tell what DA wasn’t doing that Paul wanted him to do, but I figured I should probably give the benefit of the doubt to Paul that there was something...even if to me it looked like Paul should have just thrown him the dang ball. Either way it was a perfect microcosm of how whack our offense is this year...dudes are not in sync, and not just those two

[Jesus_H_Macy]

He looks a little better from the right corner than the left corner, top of the circle or left wing, but his best spot seems to be the right wing if you look here.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsca02/shooting/2021

Nice, thanks for the tip. Didn’t realize bballref had these shooting stats. Is it the shot chart you’re looking at, or is it also showing the percentages from different areas somewhere?

I was looking at shot chart...I don't see the area percentages on b-ref (other than rim and distance...which is interesting to look at...like Bridges has always been insane at the rim).

It's probably somewhere on nba.com/stats, where I was looking at Booker's catch and shoot 3pt% (over 42%) which is kind of crazy it's that high given his overall 3pt% is 34% https://www.nba.com/stats/players/catch-shoot/

Here is Booker's pull up 3pt% (26.9%) https://www.nba.com/stats/players/pullup/

Nice, I’ll peruse these today and see what I can find

[bwgood77]

Nice, thanks for the tip. Didn’t realize bballref had these shooting stats. Is it the shot chart you’re looking at, or is it also showing the percentages from different areas somewhere?

I was looking at shot chart...I don't see the area percentages on b-ref (other than rim and distance...which is interesting to look at...like Bridges has always been insane at the rim).

It's probably somewhere on nba.com/stats, where I was looking at Booker's catch and shoot 3pt% (over 42%) which is kind of crazy it's that high given his overall 3pt% is 34% https://www.nba.com/stats/players/catch-shoot/

Here is Booker's pull up 3pt% (26.9%) https://www.nba.com/stats/players/pullup/

Nice, I’ll peruse these today and see what I can find

I looked for a few minutes and can't find it. It's definitely on Ben Falk's Cleaning the Glass, which has everything you could ask for...he even does stuff like pulls out last second heaves at end of quarters for a players shooting %s.

I no longer have a subscription for that because I didn't use it enough...he has a lot of great stuff though if one really likes to dig into specifics of numbers. Far more comprehensive than nba.com. He used to be the stat analysis guy under Hinkie in Philly.

I don't think he wants to work for a team at this time but he would be the type of guy the Suns should absolutely try and get to be in team strategy meetings with coaches...most effective lineups, and all sorts of other stuff.

[nevetsov]

This is probably a game better suited for Crowder to start. With Ayton on Adams, we needed a bruiser type to stay on Zion. Not sure how much of a difference we would have seen but Cam isn't big enough.

Definitely would have preferred to see Crowder on Zion and Mikal on Ingram.

[phnart]

Really hope we can get into some garbage time minutes over the next couple games. I would like to see some more Jalen Smith minutes.

We got the wrong kind of garbage last night.

[DroughtsOverPHX]

I can see Payne and Saric not righting this boat. It seems like a ton of times we take 3's and have no one under the basket. I would guess the thinking is that if we crash the boards somebody's man will cherry pick a layup at the other end. I'd rather see us risk that happening than have Ayton and Crowder 25 feet from the basket and have nobody battling for the boards. When we launch 3's nobody crashes the boards or follows their shot. (okay...now and then but not often)

It's not all bad. We could actually hit at a clip that O rebounding becomes closer to moot. We have a ton of 3 point shooters.

Other than that, I'll be glad to see Saric and Payne back. A bench with Payne, Carter, Cam, Saric and Stix I think could develop some sweet chemistry. (maybe Nader instead of Carter but Carter and Payne were a good combo off the bench in the past)

Frustration, doom and gloom but we are above .500 and have better pieces than we have had in a long time. We are polar opposite of SSOL which feels weird.

[JohnWall2]

At least Simmons wouldn't play hero ball and stifle the defense like Booker does. Everyone else just stands around.watching and we wonder why they cold lol

Booker’s game is made for the playoffs.

Simmons plays awesome defense but can’t make a shot to save his life. I’ve never liked his game and honestly don’t see a big difference between Lonzo Ball and Ben Simmons game. That’s kinda where I stand with Ben Simmons. I’ve never been a fan! Good for him that he has the arguably the best big in the league as his teammate.

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Playoffs involve team ball and defense though, not repeated iso. Booker is not getting others involved as much this year, and is trying to do too much on his own, allowing others to watch and get cold. He may end up with good shooting numbers, but it often leaves others cold since they are not regularly involved in the offense unless/until it's a shot near end of the shot clock.

With Paul here it would be nice if Booker played more off ball when Paul is in the game, in the sense that took more catch and shoots like he did the previous game where he hit the winner, and shot 4/8 from 3 instead of 0/4.

There is no other reason an entire team of 3 pt shooters can continually go cold from 3 in the same game when offensive flow is disrupted.

There is really no excuse with a player as talented as Booker to shoot 39 times and have 2 assists in 2 games since his return.

This post is absolutely bang on. If I could and 1 more than once I would.

[Preacherpj]

5-8 are tied though, and 9 is a 1/2 game back of that and 10 is 1 game back. Two of those teams are missing key players too. Portland has also been without Nurkic for3 weeks and Memphis has been without JJJ and Justise Winslow all season and missed Ja for half their games.

Houston is only a game back and has missed a lot of time from Wall and Dipo. I think they are 5-0 when both are playing.

All of us can be positive or negative about the team, but the fact is that we are 6th in the West and if the season ended today we'd be a playoff team.

So yeah, we are on the right track and we are achieving our goals.

I've been positive, and are not blaming everyone on every mistake and didn't get that upset over this loss or the previous losses to bad teams...I was bothered in a recent one with a foul or two like that Doncic chest headbutt called on Ayton and some of the close losses to Denver were frustrating...

I am happy overall with how we've played, particularly without Saric and Payne and know we will be better when they get back.

However, I'm just stating facts with records here and other teams around us missing players. We are tied for the 6 seed right now...but there is a 4 way tie in the standings..we are placed there due to uneven games so it is going by slight win %s working out differently. Houston and GS right on everyone's tail but the good thing there is that we beat them, though we did lose to Memphis so lose that tiebreaker right now.

The west is just VERY tough and competitive, moreso than usual, with 14 teams in the mix (well 13 when OKC fades).

And I'm just trying to figure out our shooting woes and it seems that it happens when our offense is out of flow, and wonder why the team struggles when Booker and Paul share the floor but are better when one is on the floor.

The west is brutal for everyone though, so it evens out to some degree. Lots of teams are going to be beating up on each other.

[bwgood77]

I can see Payne and Saric not righting this boat. It seems like a ton of times we take 3's and have no one under the basket. I would guess the thinking is that if we crash the boards somebody's man will cherry pick a layup at the other end. I'd rather see us risk that happening than have Ayton and Crowder 25 feet from the basket and have nobody battling for the boards. When we launch 3's nobody crashes the boards or follows their shot. (okay...now and then but not often)

It's not all bad. We could actually hit at a clip that O rebounding becomes closer to moot. We have a ton of 3 point shooters.

Other than that, I'll be glad to see Saric and Payne back. A bench with Payne, Carter, Cam, Saric and Stix I think could develop some sweet chemistry. (maybe Nader instead of Carter but Carter and Payne were a good combo off the bench in the past)

Frustration, doom and gloom but we are above .500 and have better pieces than we have had in a long time. We are polar opposite of SSOL which feels weird.

It's probably not a strategy but 3 pt misses usually bounce further away from the basket and someone a little further out gets the board than someone who would be right under the basket.