ImageImageImage

Game 45: Indiana Pacers (17-29) @ Phoenix Suns (35-9) l Saturday l 7:00pm l BSAZ

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22

Favorite Suns players of all time

G.Hill
5
6%
Amare
14
18%
Booker
12
15%
Nash
20
26%
KJ
5
6%
Barkley
7
9%
CP3
4
5%
Diaw
1
1%
Other (list favorites down below)
5
6%
Marion
5
6%
 
Total votes: 78

TheLoon
Sophomore
Posts: 156
And1: 107
Joined: Feb 02, 2014
       

Re: Game 45: Indiana Pacers (17-29) @ Phoenix Suns (35-9) l Saturday l 7:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#121 » by TheLoon » Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:40 pm

Revived wrote:
TheLoon wrote:Jeez not like he didn't just have a 48 point zero turnover game...tough crowd

Exactly lol. Some of these posts are just funny. I mean go look at Booker’s last two weeks worth of games, he’s been on fire basically over that span. He was bound to have a bad game just like every player including prime MJ.

I’d rather his “off game” be to a team like the depleted Pacers where other guys (like Bridges who otherwise gives close to nothing offensively) can more easily step up than against a really good team where we will need Book and CP3 to do most of the heavy lifting.


That's why they keep winning...oh Book has an off night? The warden and McGee and Biyombo step up...Paul drops an 18 and 16 and off to the next
RunDogGun
No Sham, More Cam
Posts: 17,891
And1: 5,437
Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Location: Beyond the Sun

Re: Game 45: Indiana Pacers (17-29) @ Phoenix Suns (35-9) l Saturday l 7:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#122 » by RunDogGun » Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:01 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:I don't see us making either of those deals. I think we drop Elf in as the backup point, using Shamet as another to handle the ball some times with Elf, and Smith gets the back up minutes behind Johnson. Johnson's minutes get bumped up to 30+, with maybe a few minutes of twin towers in Ayton and Biz when Ayton returns. Most likely add a 10 day contract to someone, and some mins for Ish at the pf.


Interesting for sure!
How does that work though with none of Elf, Shamet ( 1 solid game out of every 10), and Biyombo not being able to space the floor in their roles? Also, to a lesser extent Ayton too, even though he's got an serviceable perimeter game but prefers to seldom use it? Also Monty seems not to want to play Smith even if we had no size at all, He's not played more than a couple of minutes in the last 3 games, and not at all even in our 20 point blow out last night. So whatever confidence he probably had from getting minutes during Covid is probably unfortunately gone now. His confidence in shooting will at best be questionable now, But at least he can still rebound well. We might go back to 10 day options if there's someone available that is actually a quality option at that role. Not sure who'd that be though? The Cam Johnson option is very good though and the right choice!! :nod:

Just not sure who picks up the offensive slack for Payne or behind Johnson off the bench, As we don't have legitimate floor spacers/ proficient scorers in any of the above mentioned players. What we primarily lost in Payne and Crowder going down is scoring, timely shot making with our starters on the bench. Cam can cover for his role? Bismac, Smith ( whom I still really like, But Monty's wasted), Payton, and even Shamet whose been a wild disappointment since getting paid (funny how that works) just cannot be counted on to carry any portion our offense consistently IF either of those players are out for any significant amount of time.


Well for one, you have those guys(Elf and Shamet) attacking the rim all the time and run a big to follow them like Admunson would follow and clean up Barbosa's misses. Both are quick enough to get guys off the dribble. Also you do what I have been saying for a few years now, you keep two starters on the court at all times. When you play Ish, you keep whoever is hot shooting threes on the court with him (Book, Bridges, or Johnson). Use Ish for hard fouls on guys that might be dominating in the paint. You give that guy something to think about without trying to injure them.

I would start Paul, Book, Bridges, Johnson, Biz(Monty will start McGee if Ayton is still out though), then bring in Elf, then Biz, then Shamet, then Smith, then Ish. You keep as many starters in as you can with your bench guys, and stop having Elf play off the ball guard, because that is simply ridiculous since he isn't a threat from deep. Let him run the offense when Paul is out. He will step up. You also have him guard some of the tougher offensive guards, giving Bridges some time on a lesser threat.

If Ayton starts, you do the same line up (which is our best five guys Paul, Book, Bridges, Johnson, Ayton, and you run the heck out of the other team. Do the same when all the bench guys get woven into the game. All of bench guys are pretty quick except McGee and a little bit of Biz. Biz and McGee had pretty good to great games last night, so they usually have a bad to just ok game following those, so you try each out in part of the first and second to see who is still feeding off their previous games. We have to get Smith involved. Get him a nice slam dunk early. Run a back screen with whoever is playing center or sg, and get that early feed from Paul or Elf.

Honestly, I am not worried about our guys. Both Johnson and Elf could start on many teams, and Smith has proven himself when given the minutes and confidence from the coach. I am just a bit worried that Monty has hurt some confidence in those guys.
RunDogGun
No Sham, More Cam
Posts: 17,891
And1: 5,437
Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Location: Beyond the Sun

Re: Game 45: Indiana Pacers (17-29) @ Phoenix Suns (35-9) l Saturday l 7:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#123 » by RunDogGun » Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:16 pm

TheLoon wrote:
SunsRback4Good wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:And what was up with Book passing up a wide open Johnson, to be forced to dump it to Biz, who was behind the back board. Biz had to force it. I get it that Johnson wasn't shoot great either, but that was so wide open. Book was making bad choices after bad shots.


Exactly, besides his atrocities shooting his decision making was lacking too. It felt like Suns were playing 4 against 5 the entire game because Booker was nothing but a ghost on the court. Pretty hilarious after he wins player of the week he comes out with a stinker shooting near 12%. Oh well, just glad we managed to beat the same team who won against Lakers & Warriors on the road.


Jeez not like he didn't just have a 48 point zero turnover game...tough crowd

But because of his 48 point night, he ends up forcing the situation when he can't the broad side of a barn. That leads to bad choices, and if it wasn't for great games from Mikal, Paul, and Biz, we lose to a Gleague squad because of the forcing by Book. For example, he tried to do a windmill dunk at the end, and Shaqin'd himself. He could have just made a solid dunk. This is not completely his fault though. Monty needs to do something. Honestly, no one on a professional team should take 23 shots to get 11 points. Frank scored 31 points in a game this season, so what?

Now this doesn't mean Booker sucks, it means he continues to revert back to bad decisions when he is having an off game, because he gets into his own head, and Monty lets him chuck and chuck. Everyone can have a bad shooting night. You take it to the hoop more, screen for guys who are not shooting poorly, and start to look for guys and pass more, not keep hoisting bricks because you think you are great. Hero ball sucks. Team basketball is what wins. It is the reason Pop would let(to some extent using single coverage) Amare score, and lock down everyone else.
RunDogGun
No Sham, More Cam
Posts: 17,891
And1: 5,437
Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Location: Beyond the Sun

Re: Game 45: Indiana Pacers (17-29) @ Phoenix Suns (35-9) l Saturday l 7:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#124 » by RunDogGun » Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:27 pm

TheLoon wrote:
Revived wrote:
TheLoon wrote:Jeez not like he didn't just have a 48 point zero turnover game...tough crowd

Exactly lol. Some of these posts are just funny. I mean go look at Booker’s last two weeks worth of games, he’s been on fire basically over that span. He was bound to have a bad game just like every player including prime MJ.

I’d rather his “off game” be to a team like the depleted Pacers where other guys (like Bridges who otherwise gives close to nothing offensively) can more easily step up than against a really good team where we will need Book and CP3 to do most of the heavy lifting.


That's why they keep winning...oh Book has an off night? The warden and McGee and Biyombo step up...Paul drops an 18 and 16 and off to the next

But that is ignoring the problem. And it could be multiple nights where Book can't shoot. Then you are playing a tougher team, and then things can easily snowball. When Grant Hill was having troubles from 3, he called his old coach, and he said to take it to the hoop. We have had games where no one could shoot, and I don't want that to start snowballing going into the playoffs. This wasn't just an "off game" by Book, it was an embarrassing game by Book. Will he bounce back? I sure hope so, but I don't want him coming out taking 4 or 5 shots in the first 3 minutes to try and prove he can shoot, it just hurts the offensive flow. But he can't just chuck like that ever, and only take 1 free throw. No more hero ball, it kills the team, and accounted for almost every loss we had in the playoffs. Well that and PEDs. :wink:

Side note: I think Book has become a very good defender, and sets some amazing back screens to get guys open. There is so much more he could do for our team then chuck 23 times to make 5.
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,277
And1: 9,020
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: Game 45: Indiana Pacers (17-29) @ Phoenix Suns (35-9) l Saturday l 7:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#125 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:09 pm

Spoiler:
RunDogGun wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:I don't see us making either of those deals. I think we drop Elf in as the backup point, using Shamet as another to handle the ball some times with Elf, and Smith gets the back up minutes behind Johnson. Johnson's minutes get bumped up to 30+, with maybe a few minutes of twin towers in Ayton and Biz when Ayton returns. Most likely add a 10 day contract to someone, and some mins for Ish at the pf.


Interesting for sure!
How does that work though with none of Elf, Shamet ( 1 solid game out of every 10), and Biyombo not being able to space the floor in their roles? Also, to a lesser extent Ayton too, even though he's got an serviceable perimeter game but prefers to seldom use it? Also Monty seems not to want to play Smith even if we had no size at all, He's not played more than a couple of minutes in the last 3 games, and not at all even in our 20 point blow out last night. So whatever confidence he probably had from getting minutes during Covid is probably unfortunately gone now. His confidence in shooting will at best be questionable now, But at least he can still rebound well. We might go back to 10 day options if there's someone available that is actually a quality option at that role. Not sure who'd that be though? The Cam Johnson option is very good though and the right choice!! :nod:

Just not sure who picks up the offensive slack for Payne or behind Johnson off the bench, As we don't have legitimate floor spacers/ proficient scorers in any of the above mentioned players. What we primarily lost in Payne and Crowder going down is scoring, timely shot making with our starters on the bench. Cam can cover for his role? Bismac, Smith ( whom I still really like, But Monty's wasted), Payton, and even Shamet whose been a wild disappointment since getting paid (funny how that works) just cannot be counted on to carry any portion our offense consistently IF either of those players are out for any significant amount of time.


Well for one, you have those guys(Elf and Shamet) attacking the rim all the time and run a big to follow them like Admunson would follow and clean up Barbosa's misses. Both are quick enough to get guys off the dribble. Also you do what I have been saying for a few years now, you keep two starters on the court at all times. When you play Ish, you keep whoever is hot shooting threes on the court with him (Book, Bridges, or Johnson). Use Ish for hard fouls on guys that might be dominating in the paint. You give that guy something to think about without trying to injure them.

I would start Paul, Book, Bridges, Johnson, Biz(Monty will start McGee if Ayton is still out though), then bring in Elf, then Biz, then Shamet, then Smith, then Ish. You keep as many starters in as you can with your bench guys, and stop having Elf play off the ball guard, because that is simply ridiculous since he isn't a threat from deep. Let him run the offense when Paul is out. He will step up. You also have him guard some of the tougher offensive guards, giving Bridges some time on a lesser threat.

If Ayton starts, you do the same line up (which is our best five guys Paul, Book, Bridges, Johnson, Ayton, and you run the heck out of the other team. Do the same when all the bench guys get woven into the game. All of bench guys are pretty quick except McGee and a little bit of Biz. Biz and McGee had pretty good to great games last night, so they usually have a bad to just ok game following those, so you try each out in part of the first and second to see who is still feeding off their previous games. We have to get Smith involved. Get him a nice slam dunk early. Run a back screen with whoever is playing center or sg, and get that early feed from Paul or Elf.

Honestly, I am not worried about our guys. Both Johnson and Elf could start on many teams, and Smith has proven himself when given the minutes and confidence from the coach. I am just a bit worried that Monty has hurt some confidence in those guys.

Solid post and great points ( in theory). I'm intrigued to see how it works out if they go that route. I agree that Monty has probably hurt Smiths' and possibly others confidence, which is very important as a player to have so you can trust in your individual skillset. I love the idea of Cam starting though. And agree with the premise of having our centers crash the boards as Payton unfortunately habitually will drive into a crowd of defenders ( alpha mentality) and very rarely finish with efficiency. And Shamet even with close to 45+ games has yet to show that he can play his role effectively.

I worry about them simply walking off our centers, knowing that they aren't primarily effective on the perimeter. And again I don't see opposing defenses allowing either of Payton or Shamet to drive to the rim effectively to the rim. I honestly think that they'll target these weaknesses specifically. I also don't trust Monty's ability to situationally adapt as he's yet to really show flexibility in his rotations. But all things said, I hope that I'm proven wrong and that your plan is utilized. And that it proves effective. I'd much ratherbe wrong to the result of our success, than right to our detriment! :thumbsup:
Image
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 97,906
And1: 60,882
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: Game 45: Indiana Pacers (17-29) @ Phoenix Suns (35-9) l Saturday l 7:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#126 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:25 pm

RunDogGun wrote:Number one record doesn't guarantee a chip. Solid play throughout and maximizing our lineups and team play gives us the best chance to get a chip. We are beyond being just happy with beating a GLeague squad. Go Suns!!


No, no team has a great % to win a chip and taking the field over any team is a safer bet.

But despite my disagreement with some lineups, Monty probably knows what he is doing given this record. Cam, for example, shot poorly last night. It wasn't Monty's fault as you seem to suggest. He wasn't going to sustain a 50% 3pt shooting streak.

I know you coach high school basketball or something like that, but don't think that gives you more knowledge than Monty on who has earned playing time and makes our team better when you take everything into account.
When asked how Fascism starts, Bertrand Russell once said:
"First, they fascinate the fools. Then, they muzzle the intelligent."
RunDogGun
No Sham, More Cam
Posts: 17,891
And1: 5,437
Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Location: Beyond the Sun

Re: Game 45: Indiana Pacers (17-29) @ Phoenix Suns (35-9) l Saturday l 7:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#127 » by RunDogGun » Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:17 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:Number one record doesn't guarantee a chip. Solid play throughout and maximizing our lineups and team play gives us the best chance to get a chip. We are beyond being just happy with beating a GLeague squad. Go Suns!!


No, no team has a great % to win a chip and taking the field over any team is a safer bet.

But despite my disagreement with some lineups, Monty probably knows what he is doing given this record. Cam, for example, shot poorly last night. It wasn't Monty's fault as you seem to suggest. He wasn't going to sustain a 50% 3pt shooting streak.

I know you coach high school basketball or something like that, but don't think that gives you more knowledge than Monty on who has earned playing time and makes our team better when you take everything into account.

I don't know if we can say he knows what he is doing, since he made little adjustments to stop the Bucks from winning four games in a row in the finals. He also failed to give more minutes to our best shooter during the playoffs in Johnson. He is a player's coach, and he placates to those players. I was right about Shamet, and you were wrong, so at least my instincts are better than yours. So excuse for not taking your opinion about my opinion as anything but a mod not liking a poster, and continues to go after them personally instead of making a valid argument to counter my comments. Why are you still a mod? Stick to the topic and subject, and don't go after people personally. I have been trying to do that for quite some time now, and have found it leads to better discussions.

Oh, the old, your argument is invalid because you don't coach in the NBA. :roll: Next time, if you are going to go after a fellow poster, try and attack their argument instead of trying to invalidate their argument by belittling their coaching ability. You don't know how quickly my players increased their abilities in short period of time. From the results I saw, I did a fine job coaching. Plus I went to many coaching clinics from Lute and Joan, unless you think UofA coaches suck as well.

I am guessing I will get a warning of being banned or suspended next, right? But I will say this, you must have a tough time waiting so long to find a way to try and go after me, so I will give you that. :lol:
RunDogGun
No Sham, More Cam
Posts: 17,891
And1: 5,437
Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Location: Beyond the Sun

Re: Game 45: Indiana Pacers (17-29) @ Phoenix Suns (35-9) l Saturday l 7:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#128 » by RunDogGun » Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:29 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:Solid post and great points ( in theory). I'm intrigued to see how it works out if they go that route. I agree that Monty has probably hurt Smiths' and possibly others confidence, which is very important as a player to have so you can trust in your individual skillset. I love the idea of Cam starting though. And agree with the premise of having our centers crash the boards as Payton unfortunately habitually will drive into a crowd of defenders ( alpha mentality) and very rarely finish with efficiency. And Shamet even with close to 45+ games has yet to show that he can play his role effectively.

I worry about them simply walking off our centers, knowing that they aren't primarily effective on the perimeter. And again I don't see opposing defenses allowing either of Payton or Shamet to drive to the rim effectively to the rim. I honestly think that they'll target these weaknesses specifically. I also don't trust Monty's ability to situationally adapt as he's yet to really show flexibility in his rotations. But all things said, I hope that I'm proven wrong and that your plan is utilized. And that it proves effective. I'd much ratherbe wrong to the result of our success, than right to our detriment! :thumbsup:


Well I don't understand why our centers would be hanging out by the three leaving guys to walk off of them. Many teams have multiple bigs playing together, as well as in the past, where they didn't really have range from deep. Elf can get to the hoop fairly well, he just hasn't been finishing those drives. Shamet has shown he can drive as well, but tends to take a pull up jumper instead, or getting caught in the air searching for a pass. But since both are having difficulty making shots from deep, their best bet is to attack the rim in hopes of drawing defenses in, which should open outside shooters, which is why I suggested to have our hottest shooter staying on the court with them for that game. But our bigs need to follow both Elf and Shamet on those drives. Plus if they are driving, usually that means we aren't taking quick threes where our bigs are nowhere near in position to get a rebound. I understand that our guys might be trying to take a shot before the defense is set, but they also take shots often where none of players are in position to rebound their miss. Now if our guys all following their shots (Paul actually does a decent job of that sometimes, like he did the other night on his made three. He got around his guy quickly after his shot, and was in perfect position if the ball hit the side of the rim), those quick threes might go right back to them if missed.
RunDogGun
No Sham, More Cam
Posts: 17,891
And1: 5,437
Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Location: Beyond the Sun

Re: Game 45: Indiana Pacers (17-29) @ Phoenix Suns (35-9) l Saturday l 7:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#129 » by RunDogGun » Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:37 pm

RunDogGun wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:Number one record doesn't guarantee a chip. Solid play throughout and maximizing our lineups and team play gives us the best chance to get a chip. We are beyond being just happy with beating a GLeague squad. Go Suns!!


No, no team has a great % to win a chip and taking the field over any team is a safer bet.

But despite my disagreement with some lineups, Monty probably knows what he is doing given this record. Cam, for example, shot poorly last night. It wasn't Monty's fault as you seem to suggest. He wasn't going to sustain a 50% 3pt shooting streak.

I know you coach high school basketball or something like that, but don't think that gives you more knowledge than Monty on who has earned playing time and makes our team better when you take everything into account.

I don't know if we can say he knows what he is doing, since he made little adjustments to stop the Bucks from winning four games in a row in the finals. He also failed to give more minutes to our best shooter during the playoffs in Johnson. He is a player's coach, and he placates to those players. I was right about Shamet, and you were wrong, so at least my instincts are better than yours. So excuse for not taking your opinion about my opinion as anything but a mod not liking a poster, and continues to go after them personally instead of making a valid argument to counter my comments. Why are you still a mod? Stick to the topic and subject, and don't go after people personally. I have been trying to do that for quite some time now, and have found it leads to better discussions.

Oh, the old, your argument is invalid because you don't coach in the NBA. :roll: Next time, if you are going to go after a fellow poster, try and attack their argument instead of trying to invalidate their argument by belittling their coaching ability. You don't know how quickly my players increased their abilities in short period of time. From the results I saw, I did a fine job coaching. Plus I went to many coaching clinics from Lute and Joan, unless you think UofA coaches suck as well.

I am guessing I will get a warning of being banned or suspended next, right? But I will say this, you must have a tough time waiting so long to find a way to try and go after me, so I will give you that. :lol:


Side note, everything I suggest is just common basketball knowledge and based on fundamentals that any player learns. It doesn't make me a basketball genius. You ride the hot hand, make plays that work best to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. You play guys that work best together as often as you can. You don't placate to your players, you coach them. You explain what they are doing wrong, and already have solutions when those problems arise. You don't let them keep chucking thinking that eventually the ball will go in. You play to win, and make adjustments to give yourself the best opportunity to win. I like Monty a lot, but pointing out his flaws doesn't mean I know more than him, nor does it mean I know less than him.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 97,906
And1: 60,882
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: Game 45: Indiana Pacers (17-29) @ Phoenix Suns (35-9) l Saturday l 7:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#130 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:42 pm

RunDogGun wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:Number one record doesn't guarantee a chip. Solid play throughout and maximizing our lineups and team play gives us the best chance to get a chip. We are beyond being just happy with beating a GLeague squad. Go Suns!!


No, no team has a great % to win a chip and taking the field over any team is a safer bet.

But despite my disagreement with some lineups, Monty probably knows what he is doing given this record. Cam, for example, shot poorly last night. It wasn't Monty's fault as you seem to suggest. He wasn't going to sustain a 50% 3pt shooting streak.

I know you coach high school basketball or something like that, but don't think that gives you more knowledge than Monty on who has earned playing time and makes our team better when you take everything into account.

I don't know if we can say he knows what he is doing, since he made little adjustments to stop the Bucks from winning four games in a row in the finals. He also failed to give more minutes to our best shooter during the playoffs in Johnson. He is a player's coach, and he placates to those players. I was right about Shamet, and you were wrong, so at least my instincts are better than yours. So excuse for not taking your opinion about my opinion as anything but a mod not liking a poster, and continues to go after them personally instead of making a valid argument to counter my comments. Why are you still a mod? Stick to the topic and subject, and don't go after people personally. I have been trying to do that for quite some time now, and have found it leads to better discussions.

Oh, the old, your argument is invalid because you don't coach in the NBA. :roll: Next time, if you are going to go after a fellow poster, try and attack their argument instead of trying to invalidate their argument by belittling their coaching ability. You don't know how quickly my players increased their abilities in short period of time. From the results I saw, I did a fine job coaching. Plus I went to many coaching clinics from Lute and Joan, unless you think UofA coaches suck as well.

I am guessing I will get a warning of being banned or suspended next, right? But I will say this, you must have a tough time waiting so long to find a way to try and go after me, so I will give you that. :lol:


Shamet could be shooting better, but I don't mind the trade. I just argued against you not understanding the high volume of 3s impacting his overall FG%, which you continued to focus on, despite it being lower due to most of his shots being 3s.

All shooters are streaky.

I didn't mind your argument, just that you littered every thread with the exact same thing repeatedly when everyone knew your opinion as it was stated so many times in a short period in all threads and it was tiring for a lot of posters.

I hated his contract, which came after our disagreements regarding me talking about 3pt FG% and you focusing on overall FG%. We have played far better than anyone expected going into last season.

He still is shooting a higher percentage than 3 than guys like Cam and Booker did last year and has a higher NBA career 3pt FG% than anyone else on the team.

The Bucks beat us due to several factors, like going big, having more playoff experience, Giannis playing like a monster, a bad game by Booker and a bad game by Paul. Not simply because of Monty.

Sounds like you are the one going personal. I was just talking about something you had mentioned previously, regarding your coaching. It's not just you but I think Monty is probably more suited to decide who should play based on practice, lineups, etc, than ANY of us.
When asked how Fascism starts, Bertrand Russell once said:
"First, they fascinate the fools. Then, they muzzle the intelligent."
RunDogGun
No Sham, More Cam
Posts: 17,891
And1: 5,437
Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Location: Beyond the Sun

Re: Game 45: Indiana Pacers (17-29) @ Phoenix Suns (35-9) l Saturday l 7:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#131 » by RunDogGun » Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:07 pm

Ha, nope, you went personal first, with your comment about my coaching experience, which you know nothing about. But that is you, and you do it every time, and not just with me. Other posters have commented about it. You could have chosen to address any one of my comments about coaching. Explaining Bud's adjustments to our game plan we used for every game, doesn't change my comment of lack of adjustments from Monty to thwart a four out of four losses.

But this is a discussion board, and we don't get to make changes to lineups and such, so going after a poster personally, commenting on their coaching ability which you know nothing about, seems like weak crap. Again, next time try and counter my comments instead of trying to discredit them with garbage.

I kept repeating my comments this summer, because many posters including yourself, ignored the facts, and tried to point out other things that had nothing to do with comments. It seemed I had to keep telling people my points, because people were claiming points I wasn't making, and then argue against points I never made. High volume shooters who miss a lot, or take bad forced shots are called chuckers. And when they are poor on defense, they aren't worth guys who shot better. The point, also leads to the flaw Monty has, Galloway and Shamet were/are extremely similar, and the only reason Shamet gets mins and Galloway didn't is Monty. As I pointed out last year, Galloway was killing it in the Detroit game, and Monty onlt gave him 3 mins in the second half and we lost. Shamet is a chucker with poor defense. I like his hustle, but I would still much rather have had Carter and the pick, then a guy Monty likes who won't do anything more than Galloway/Carter and a pick.
suns12345
Starter
Posts: 2,384
And1: 1,612
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
 

Re: Game 45: Indiana Pacers (17-29) @ Phoenix Suns (35-9) l Saturday l 7:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#132 » by suns12345 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:38 pm

RunDogGun wrote:Ha, nope, you went personal first, with your comment about my coaching experience, which you know nothing about. But that is you, and you do it every time, and not just with me. Other posters have commented about it. You could have chosen to address any one of my comments about coaching. Explaining Bud's adjustments to our game plan we used for every game, doesn't change my comment of lack of adjustments from Monty to thwart a four out of four losses.

But this is a discussion board, and we don't get to make changes to lineups and such, so going after a poster personally, commenting on their coaching ability which you know nothing about, seems like weak crap. Again, next time try and counter my comments instead of trying to discredit them with garbage.

I kept repeating my comments this summer, because many posters including yourself, ignored the facts, and tried to point out other things that had nothing to do with comments. It seemed I had to keep telling people my points, because people were claiming points I wasn't making, and then argue against points I never made. High volume shooters who miss a lot, or take bad forced shots are called chuckers. And when they are poor on defense, they aren't worth guys who shot better. The point, also leads to the flaw Monty has, Galloway and Shamet were/are extremely similar, and the only reason Shamet gets mins and Galloway didn't is Monty. As I pointed out last year, Galloway was killing it in the Detroit game, and Monty onlt gave him 3 mins in the second half and we lost. Shamet is a chucker with poor defense. I like his hustle, but I would still much rather have had Carter and the pick, then a guy Monty likes who won't do anything more than Galloway/Carter and a pick.


Shamet is much more dynamic than Galloway. Length, athleticism etc.

Take issues with the player and the contract - fine. But Shamet is playing mins on the best team in the league and galloway is out of the league, so I dont think the comparison is fair.
RunDogGun
No Sham, More Cam
Posts: 17,891
And1: 5,437
Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Location: Beyond the Sun

Re: Game 45: Indiana Pacers (17-29) @ Phoenix Suns (35-9) l Saturday l 7:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#133 » by RunDogGun » Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:40 am

suns12345 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:Ha, nope, you went personal first, with your comment about my coaching experience, which you know nothing about. But that is you, and you do it every time, and not just with me. Other posters have commented about it. You could have chosen to address any one of my comments about coaching. Explaining Bud's adjustments to our game plan we used for every game, doesn't change my comment of lack of adjustments from Monty to thwart a four out of four losses.

But this is a discussion board, and we don't get to make changes to lineups and such, so going after a poster personally, commenting on their coaching ability which you know nothing about, seems like weak crap. Again, next time try and counter my comments instead of trying to discredit them with garbage.

I kept repeating my comments this summer, because many posters including yourself, ignored the facts, and tried to point out other things that had nothing to do with comments. It seemed I had to keep telling people my points, because people were claiming points I wasn't making, and then argue against points I never made. High volume shooters who miss a lot, or take bad forced shots are called chuckers. And when they are poor on defense, they aren't worth guys who shot better. The point, also leads to the flaw Monty has, Galloway and Shamet were/are extremely similar, and the only reason Shamet gets mins and Galloway didn't is Monty. As I pointed out last year, Galloway was killing it in the Detroit game, and Monty onlt gave him 3 mins in the second half and we lost. Shamet is a chucker with poor defense. I like his hustle, but I would still much rather have had Carter and the pick, then a guy Monty likes who won't do anything more than Galloway/Carter and a pick.


Shamet is much more dynamic than Galloway. Length, athleticism etc.

Take issues with the player and the contract - fine. But Shamet is playing mins on the best team in the league and galloway is out of the league, so I dont think the comparison is fair.
The comparison was from last year's play, which they were very similar, except Galloway was the better shooter at every stat line. We got Galloway because he was a good 3pt shooter, fast, quick shot, and an overall good teammate, locker room guy, and vet. We got him super cheap as well. He just didn't get minutes under Monty, even when he was on fire (example the Detroit game). He was instant offense. With all of his hustle, he just wasn't a great defender, and we rarely used him to get that instant offense. So he rotted at the end of the bench, which cooled his shooting.

My issues was with the trade and need. Since we already had a better shooter, there was no need. Now if Shamet was a lock down defender, I totally get the trade and need. But he isn't. Moreover the added pick which could have garnered Ayo, who is already better than Shamet, and mentioned here a few times by GoK, Revived, and others, keeping Carter and the pick would have been a better move for the team. The contract extension was the dumbest move this FO has done all year besides not locking in Ayton.

I am sure Shamet is a fine person, and I have zero issues with him personally. He is a chucker that is weak on defense. And if he takes minutes away from Johnson, like I said this summer, I have a personal issue with that since Johnson is one of our top five players on the team. Shamet"s stats are very similar to the one's I pointed out this summer, showing how low he would be in multiple stat lines compared to the rest of last year's team. You can look it all up, its there for all to see. I do like his hustle, but Galloway had the same hustle at a cheaper price. It was laughable that people were bringing up the volume of shots. It easier for streaky shooters to get going if they take more shots, so the fact that Galloway could come in and still shoot at a higher percentage when he got way less shots, was more impressive to me.

Overall, its easy to compare the two players from last year, because they were both in the league, and one we could have retained (if that was the real need (a high percentage 3 point shooter with limited defense but hustles his butt off)) for far less money.

I am not going to post all the stats again, so if you want to continue this, please review all those stats, and see where Shamet would have landed stat-wise for last year's team and where he is this year.
suns12345
Starter
Posts: 2,384
And1: 1,612
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
 

Re: Game 45: Indiana Pacers (17-29) @ Phoenix Suns (35-9) l Saturday l 7:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#134 » by suns12345 » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:25 am

RunDogGun wrote:
suns12345 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:Ha, nope, you went personal first, with your comment about my coaching experience, which you know nothing about. But that is you, and you do it every time, and not just with me. Other posters have commented about it. You could have chosen to address any one of my comments about coaching. Explaining Bud's adjustments to our game plan we used for every game, doesn't change my comment of lack of adjustments from Monty to thwart a four out of four losses.

But this is a discussion board, and we don't get to make changes to lineups and such, so going after a poster personally, commenting on their coaching ability which you know nothing about, seems like weak crap. Again, next time try and counter my comments instead of trying to discredit them with garbage.

I kept repeating my comments this summer, because many posters including yourself, ignored the facts, and tried to point out other things that had nothing to do with comments. It seemed I had to keep telling people my points, because people were claiming points I wasn't making, and then argue against points I never made. High volume shooters who miss a lot, or take bad forced shots are called chuckers. And when they are poor on defense, they aren't worth guys who shot better. The point, also leads to the flaw Monty has, Galloway and Shamet were/are extremely similar, and the only reason Shamet gets mins and Galloway didn't is Monty. As I pointed out last year, Galloway was killing it in the Detroit game, and Monty onlt gave him 3 mins in the second half and we lost. Shamet is a chucker with poor defense. I like his hustle, but I would still much rather have had Carter and the pick, then a guy Monty likes who won't do anything more than Galloway/Carter and a pick.


Shamet is much more dynamic than Galloway. Length, athleticism etc.

Take issues with the player and the contract - fine. But Shamet is playing mins on the best team in the league and galloway is out of the league, so I dont think the comparison is fair.
The comparison was from last year's play, which they were very similar, except Galloway was the better shooter at every stat line. We got Galloway because he was a good 3pt shooter, fast, quick shot, and an overall good teammate, locker room guy, and vet. We got him super cheap as well. He just didn't get minutes under Monty, even when he was on fire (example the Detroit game). He was instant offense. With all of his hustle, he just wasn't a great defender, and we rarely used him to get that instant offense. So he rotted at the end of the bench, which cooled his shooting.

My issues was with the trade and need. Since we already had a better shooter, there was no need. Now if Shamet was a lock down defender, I totally get the trade and need. But he isn't. Moreover the added pick which could have garnered Ayo, who is already better than Shamet, and mentioned here a few times by GoK, Revived, and others, keeping Carter and the pick would have been a better move for the team. The contract extension was the dumbest move this FO has done all year besides not locking in Ayton.

I am sure Shamet is a fine person, and I have zero issues with him personally. He is a chucker that is weak on defense. And if he takes minutes away from Johnson, like I said this summer, I have a personal issue with that since Johnson is one of our top five players on the team. Shamet"s stats are very similar to the one's I pointed out this summer, showing how low he would be in multiple stat lines compared to the rest of last year's team. You can look it all up, its there for all to see. I do like his hustle, but Galloway had the same hustle at a cheaper price. It was laughable that people were bringing up the volume of shots. It easier for streaky shooters to get going if they take more shots, so the fact that Galloway could come in and still shoot at a higher percentage when he got way less shots, was more impressive to me.

Overall, its easy to compare the two players from last year, because they were both in the league, and one we could have retained (if that was the real need (a high percentage 3 point shooter with limited defense but hustles his butt off)) for far less money.

I am not going to post all the stats again, so if you want to continue this, please review all those stats, and see where Shamet would have landed stat-wise for last year's team and where he is this year.


That is all fair enough.

It is an eye test thing for me, particularly as it relates to defence, hustle etc - which as you say is part of your issue with us choosing shamet over galloway - that there is no defensive upgrade.

To my eye it seems like were faster, longer, more dynamic with Shamet than Galloway.

Obviously that is a subjective view, and whether that upgrade is worth a 1st round pick and $10m a year is another question (although thankfully it really is only a 2 year contract in terms of guarantees so that is good).

Return to Phoenix Suns