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Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ

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Re: Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ 

Post#121 » by Revived » Sat Apr 9, 2022 7:47 pm

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It’s crazy to me that people (including some Suns fans albeit very few) think him and Lavine are even in the same tier as Booker.
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Re: Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ 

Post#122 » by thamadkant » Sat Apr 9, 2022 8:30 pm

When the suns went down by 12 points early 4th quarter I knew immediately that the suns will win the game. You can tell. If the suns are competitive and pushing eventually the last 5 minutes will turn over and the other team usually shows fatigue while suns effort ramp up. It's when suns get behind by 20 points and struggle to reduce it near a 10 point deficit is when suns players end up accepting it as a loss
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Re: Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ 

Post#123 » by spanishninja » Sat Apr 9, 2022 10:45 pm

Revived wrote:
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It’s crazy to me that people (including some Suns fans albeit very few) think him and Lavine are even in the same tier as Booker.
TS is a poisonous metric. it makes the assumption that anybody not taking the most "efficient" shots is not skilled enough to do so, and what is worse is that this metric is built in so many other advanced metrics

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Re: Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ 

Post#124 » by bwgood77 » Sat Apr 9, 2022 10:48 pm

Puff wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Love the shot distribution. 18 shots for Ayton, 11 for Paul, 10 for Bridges and only 7 for Crowder. Booker had 26 shots which is a lot but scored 33 and everyone else between 16-20.


Yeah, Ayton seems far more interested in playing both ends of the court when they keep him involved on the offensive end. He was fantastic in the 4th quarter.


He's very unselfish with getting his own #s too. I understand people wanting to be a bit more selfish on offense, but he was responsible for more points thn just scoring with his 4 assists.

Also, he was responsible for more rebounds than he got. Often he boxed out Gobert well allowing Crowder or Booker or someone else to get the rebound.
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Re: Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ 

Post#125 » by dremill24 » Sat Apr 9, 2022 11:40 pm

^^you're nothing if not dedicated sir..
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Re: Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ 

Post#126 » by thamadkant » Sat Apr 9, 2022 11:40 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Puff wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Love the shot distribution. 18 shots for Ayton, 11 for Paul, 10 for Bridges and only 7 for Crowder. Booker had 26 shots which is a lot but scored 33 and everyone else between 16-20.


Yeah, Ayton seems far more interested in playing both ends of the court when they keep him involved on the offensive end. He was fantastic in the 4th quarter.


He's very unselfish with getting his own #s too. I understand people wanting to be a bit more selfish on offense, but he was responsible for more points thn just scoring with his 4 assists.

Also, he was responsible for more rebounds than he got. Often he boxed out Gobert well allowing Crowder or Booker or someone else to get the rebound.


I always point this out. Ayton does a lot of things inbetween the two ends and including both ends that doesnt show on the box score. He is Pippen-esque in that regard, as in players who do a lot more than the box score.
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Re: Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ 

Post#127 » by Revived » Sat Apr 9, 2022 11:51 pm

spanishninja wrote:
Revived wrote:
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It’s crazy to me that people (including some Suns fans albeit very few) think him and Lavine are even in the same tier as Booker.
TS is a poisonous metric. it makes the assumption that anybody not taking the most "efficient" shots is not skilled enough to do so, and what is worse is that this metric is built in so many other advanced metrics

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Not sure if you meant to respond to someone else but TS wasn’t mentioned in the tweet or my post you responded to.
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Re: Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ 

Post#128 » by spanishninja » Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:18 am

Revived wrote:
spanishninja wrote:
Revived wrote:
Read on Twitter


It’s crazy to me that people (including some Suns fans albeit very few) think him and Lavine are even in the same tier as Booker.
TS is a poisonous metric. it makes the assumption that anybody not taking the most "efficient" shots is not skilled enough to do so, and what is worse is that this metric is built in so many other advanced metrics

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Not sure if you meant to respond to someone else but TS wasn’t mentioned in the tweet or my post you responded to.
my comment was regarding the comparison between mitchell and booker, with the main argument anybody ever had for Mitchell being "efficiency" aka TS.

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Re: Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ 

Post#129 » by Revived » Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:42 am

spanishninja wrote:
Revived wrote:
spanishninja wrote:TS is a poisonous metric. it makes the assumption that anybody not taking the most "efficient" shots is not skilled enough to do so, and what is worse is that this metric is built in so many other advanced metrics

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Not sure if you meant to respond to someone else but TS wasn’t mentioned in the tweet or my post you responded to.
my comment was regarding the comparison between mitchell and booker, with the main argument anybody ever had for Mitchell being "efficiency" aka TS.

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Ah gotcha.

Yeah even his playoff numbers if you exclude that one absurd bubble playoffs without fans, travel or actual NBA arenas involved, isn’t any special but somehow he has a reputation as a big time playoff performer.
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Re: Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ 

Post#130 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:14 am

I still think Booker goes a bit too Kobe at times which hurts his effiency numbers, when he pushes through to get to the rim he tends to avoid those low FG% games.

The benefit of taking tougher shots though is that he's use to them in the clutch. An underrated factor in his game compared to other SGs is that he touches the ball alot less so doesn't hamper other players by playing within the flow.

Do you pay him the super max in July?
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Re: Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ 

Post#131 » by bwgood77 » Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:52 am

spanishninja wrote:
Revived wrote:
spanishninja wrote:TS is a poisonous metric. it makes the assumption that anybody not taking the most "efficient" shots is not skilled enough to do so, and what is worse is that this metric is built in so many other advanced metrics

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Not sure if you meant to respond to someone else but TS wasn’t mentioned in the tweet or my post you responded to.
my comment was regarding the comparison between mitchell and booker, with the main argument anybody ever had for Mitchell being "efficiency" aka TS.

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I don't think Mitchell is as good as Booker this year, though I think the main thing people may have said Mitchell had over him in the past was defense, but Booker has improved a lot as a defender and Mitchell regressed so I think Booker is now the better defender, and by a decent margin. Mitchell has never had a particularly good TS% though. He was just kind of an all around solid young guard who could handle, score, distribute, defend and take over a game.

But I feel he's regressed.

I think LaVine has improved more throughout his career.

Booker is definitely better than both, all things considered. I think the reason people may mention tiers on the GB or wherever is that if you do have a tier 1 of SGs, those guys all are in the first tier, and Beal is or was, certainly last year. They are all stars, the top SGs in player, fan and media votes, etc. And they all can score, handle, create for others, etc.

But Booker tops the tier. Harden is really more of a PG, but even as a SG, he is regressed and I think Booker is better than him at this point too.

Then you'd have tier 2 of SGs like Murray, FVV (unless you consider those guys PGs).

If you are talking TS%, the one with elite efficiency is LaVine the last two years, especially last year. Booker was extremely efficient 2 years ago. But LaVine really sucks on defense. Another thing Mitchell has done is have some crazy playoff performances, though so has Booker. LaVine hasn't really had that opportunity and has another big time scorer on his team now, so he kind of shares that duty, or is actually 2nd in the pecking order (not that he should be).

I think all these guys and Beal often get compared because they have been the young, upcoming PGs.
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Re: Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ 

Post#132 » by Iceman36 » Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:18 am

I really hope Sarver doesn't f*** up our main core of Book, Mikal and DA, due to financial considerations. We became a first tier contender with our own draft and the addition of CP3. Ayton has be paid, if Sarver wants to be a contender for the next 5+ years, period.
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Re: Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ 

Post#133 » by Puff » Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:44 am

Iceman36 wrote:I really hope Sarver doesn't f*** up our main core of Book, Mikal and DA, due to financial considerations. We became a first tier contender with our own draft and the addition of CP3. Ayton has be paid, if Sarver wants to be a contender for the next 5+ years, period.


The real question is if Sarver will still be our owner come July.

I am going to change my Television service to Direct TV Streaming, I think. The reason was that they have Bally Sports Arizona.
In their latest offering they are going to show The Diamondbacks and Coyotes. The Basketball team where the Suns should be was left blank. They are either in negotiations or could it be due to the new ownership do the negotiating? It could be that they both sides are just waiting until after the playoffs. If we do win it all we are going to be an even more hot ticket than we currently are.

Whatever happens I hope it is cleared up soon after the season ends for us.
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Re: Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ 

Post#134 » by Qwigglez » Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:17 pm

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It’s crazy to me that people (including some Suns fans albeit very few) think him and Lavine are even in the same tier as Booker.


It may not mean much, but I always take the opinion of players on players they enjoy watching. KD mentioned Book is his favorite player to watch, I remember Blake Griffin when he was still relevant mentioned playing with Book, CP3 before joining the Suns, Lillard, etc. When the best players in the NBA are naming Booker as the premier guy they are watching, not Lavine or Mitchell, it's really telling of who's a dynamic difference maker in the game.
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Re: Game 81: Phoenix Suns (63-17) @ Utah Jazz (48-32) l Friday l 6:30pm l BSAZ 

Post#135 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:03 am

I think players respect Book or at least think more highly of him than Mitchell because Book's game is just more old school and imo more aesthetically pleasing. Book might not have the same level of handles or explosiveness as Mitchell but his competitiveness, the way he gets it done on the offensive end and the fact that he now competes on the defensive end is something to be admired. On the other hand, Mitchell chucks a lot more 3's and doesn't play D as much (so he's seen as more one-way, as Booker was). I also think players respect the grind Book went through being the only scorer on the a rat team and getting almost all the defensive focus of opposing teams during the first 4-5 years of his career and still kept working on his game and kept getting better. Mitchell came into the league with an already solid team with a great coach.

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