RaisingArizona wrote:Sidery has video of it. Hard to hear. Flex is also doubling down on it for what it's worth.
Flex confirmed that Booker is playing in G6?
In a roundabout way, yeah
He can't tell us too much because you know what kind of situation he is in but there is a *good* chance he plays in game 6, and if he doesn't and it goes to game 7, there is a *really good* chance he plays in game 7. He can't get in to too much more detail because he has to protect his sources though.
When asked how Fascism starts, Bertrand Russell once said: "First, they fascinate the fools. Then, they muzzle the intelligent."
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
We have other guys that can handle the ball where we could still play Craig. He isn't "atrocious" like many are implying. But Shamet can't really guard any of the Pels, so Holiday can, and handle the ball. Craig wasn't a problem. Biz took some of the 10 minutes Craig plays, and he doesn't handle the ball, and got no rebounds.
Craigh might have more value with different matchups. Last night, the right decision
Hell if Payne wasn't scoring and getting beat on defense, well before G5, I thought try Elfrid as at least he will play defense.
Still waiting for somebody to help Paul in the backcourt with a screen on Alvarado.
They made an effort on that last night. There were a few costly plays where they forgot about it but for the most part they were more cognisant (and shocker, the offense improved).
Craigh might have more value with different matchups. Last night, the right decision
Hell if Payne wasn't scoring and getting beat on defense, well before G5, I thought try Elfrid as at least he will play defense.
Still waiting for somebody to help Paul in the backcourt with a screen on Alvarado.
They made an effort on that last night. There were a few costly plays where they forgot about it but for the most part they were more cognisant (and shocker, the offense improved).
Yes, that is true. I guess I should have been more clear - "still waiting for all 6'5, 240 of Ish Wainwright to set a blind side screen on Alvarado"
Ghost of Kleine wrote:Solid, much needed win! Some players still struggling ( Johnson/ Payne/ Shamet) and Ayton even though very solid, didn't really dominate much. Still glad to see the improved effort and energy throughout. NOW.................
We need to go to New Orleans and close this out! Right some of the wrongs from this series and reestablish momentum and dominance going forward into the next series. Great win though!
Those 3 players didn't struggle. I'm confused. They had a little bit up and down games but overall they were positive contributers. Shamet did some good things, Payne brought much needed energy, and Johnson made a few shots.
Eye of the beholder perspective perhaps? Payne He did shoot to his season average at 40% FG ( 4-10). But he still missed a bunch of open layups and had numerous empty possessions in the 3rd that helped the Pels make their run. Again, in fairness, he made some shots for sure, but probably gave up as much in wasted possessions to the Pels 3rd quarter run with wasted possessions as he provided in his minutes. Also, he fouled out to quickly due to poor defensive plays/ decisions. Did he improve from before, sure by a slightly small margin and his energy was a plus. But he's still not near to the Payne of last season for us yet either, that Payne shot 48% on his FG and 44% (not his current 33%) from three. So yeah, he's still struggling somewhat.
Johnson Still struggled throughout the majority of the game with his shooting: 3-8 on his Fg ( 37%) and 8 points in 37 minutes! He normally averages around 12 points in 26 minutes and on 46% FG. So he's under his season average both in production and in FG%, and in playing significantly more minutes than his season average. He also had some minor defensive lapses scattered throughout the game. So yeah, he's struggling somewhat still too!
Shamet I love his energy and tenacity in this series, But only put up 6 points and three rebounds in 25 minutes. He also shot 2-6 on his FG%. His season average is 9 points on 39% FG in 20 minutes played, So he averaged slightly more minutes but was still under his season average both in terms of production and shooting percentage. So yeah, he's still struggling somewhat. But again his energy and tenacity was a positive.
Again, their improvement was marginal in this game and I do expect them to improve further now. Their slight improvements were definitely a positive to our momentum and energy. But let's not dilude ourselves into thinking they didn't struggle somewhat still and can improve and need to further as well.
No, not at all. You are using stats while I am talking about how they actually impacted winning/losing the game. I don't think we disagree that much though. This is what I said, "Those 3 players didn't struggle. I'm confused. They had a little bit up and down games but overall they were positive contributors." Your analysis doesn't really contradict this much. They were positive contributors.
Payne: Completely disagree. Yes, he missed some layups. He also made two big 3's, pushed the tempo, brought tons of energy, fouled out because he was making plays, and was a huge reason they won the game. I couldn't disagree with you more. I would say he was the 3rd most important player in this game for the Suns. I don't think he struggled so much as he was receiving contact on his drives and not getting calls...except one very obvious one. Also, the Suns actually did well without Paul in the game this time, for the 1st time in the series.
Johnson: I don't disagree as much here. Johnson was okay. He is still missing and he made a tentative pass at one point that showed that he is still not all there. But he made a few important shots (dunk and 3 pointer) that were key. His defense was fine.
Shamet: You said it. He played with energy, helped with ball handling, and didn't really hurt the team with poor shooting. So we don't seem to disagree. I'm not sure what you are looking for? Yes, he did not have a dominating game but he did what he should in bringing energy and not hurting the team.
All the Suns need from the role players is energy, confidence, defense and not "hurting" the team with the shooting. Not everyone is going to go OFF with big games. A couple guys is enough (Bridges in this last game).
Craigh might have more value with different matchups. Last night, the right decision
Hell if Payne wasn't scoring and getting beat on defense, well before G5, I thought try Elfrid as at least he will play defense.
Still waiting for somebody to help Paul in the backcourt with a screen on Alvarado.
I think Crowder is the guy to do that job but unfortunately he was in foul trouble before Alvarado hit the court. I also thought Crowder was in for a big game until the foul trouble put him on the bench. Cam had his issues as well. Let's hope both of those guys light them up in NO.
Craigh might have more value with different matchups. Last night, the right decision
Hell if Payne wasn't scoring and getting beat on defense, well before G5, I thought try Elfrid as at least he will play defense.
Still waiting for somebody to help Paul in the backcourt with a screen on Alvarado.
The only thing I didn't like about Payne's game last night was he seemed to only care about his scoring. He didn't really run an offense. So if his shot wasn't falling, he would have been a huge negative. Glad he made most of them, but he has to look to get everyone he plays with involved.
lonea wrote:Craig is ideal for small ball line up, he was part of the reason suns got outbounded. NO isn't playing small ball.
Nance/Hayes/Jones are bigger and jump higher
Craig is only getting 9.8 minutes a game. I just don't see him as part of the problem for rebounds. We were out rebounded last night, and he didn't play. Biz, who played 8 of the 9.8 minutes that Craig would have gotten, got zero rebounds. Craig is in to guard either BI initially or CJ on a switch. We run zero plays for him on offense, so we really can't complain that he isn't scoring. He (25%) is shooting better from three than Crowder(9%), Shamet(23%), and Payne(13%), although Payne's % might have gone up slightly, but basketball reference has the game up, so the stats should be updated.
You forgetting all the PnR NO is running. When Craig/Bridges/Crowder is on BI/McCollum, they get severely mismatched once the switch happens. Which directly contributes to the outbounding.
Hence, why the twin tower line up worked when the backups came in.
The problem isn't the shooting, the problem is the defense. The Suns are getting murdered by the PnR.
RunDogGun wrote:
lonea wrote:Craig is ideal for small ball line up, he was part of the reason suns got outbounded. NO isn't playing small ball.
Nance/Hayes/Jones are bigger and jump higher
Craig is only getting 9.8 minutes a game. I just don't see him as part of the problem for rebounds. We were out rebounded last night, and he didn't play. Biz, who played 8 of the 9.8 minutes that Craig would have gotten, got zero rebounds. Craig is in to guard either BI initially or CJ on a switch. We run zero plays for him on offense, so we really can't complain that he isn't scoring. He (25%) is shooting better from three than Crowder(9%), Shamet(23%), and Payne(13%), although Payne's % might have gone up slightly, but basketball reference has the game up, so the stats should be updated.
GoranTragic wrote: Flex confirmed that Booker is playing in G6?
In a roundabout way, yeah
He can't tell us too much because you know what kind of situation he is in but there is a *good* chance he plays in game 6, and if he doesn't and it goes to game 7, there is a *really good* chance he plays in game 7. He can't get in to too much more detail because he has to protect his sources though.
I still say his only source is the Suns forum.
"Never argue with an idiot. You'll never convince the idiot that you're correct, and bystanders won't be able to tell who's who." - Mark Twain
lonea wrote:You forgetting all the PnR NO is running. When Craig/Bridges/Crowder is on BI/McCollum, they get severely mismatched once the switch happens. Which directly contributes to the outbounding.
Hence, why the twin tower line up worked when the backups came in.
The problem isn't the shooting, the problem is the defense. The Suns are getting murdered by the PnR.
RunDogGun wrote:
lonea wrote:Craig is ideal for small ball line up, he was part of the reason suns got outbounded. NO isn't playing small ball.
Nance/Hayes/Jones are bigger and jump higher
Craig is only getting 9.8 minutes a game. I just don't see him as part of the problem for rebounds. We were out rebounded last night, and he didn't play. Biz, who played 8 of the 9.8 minutes that Craig would have gotten, got zero rebounds. Craig is in to guard either BI initially or CJ on a switch. We run zero plays for him on offense, so we really can't complain that he isn't scoring. He (25%) is shooting better from three than Crowder(9%), Shamet(23%), and Payne(13%), although Payne's % might have gone up slightly, but basketball reference has the game up, so the stats should be updated.
But if that was the case, then the "twin tower" lineups would have had more rebounds or we would have reduced theirs greatly. That didn't happen. McGee only had two rebounds, Biz zero. Last game Craig had four rebounds in the short ten minutes he played. They set screens with all their guys until they get a matchup that favors them, which is Shamet or Payne on anyone. We saw both BI and CJ do this. It would be even better for them if McGee or Biz had to switch on to them. Craig has been used solely for defensive purposes, guarding either BI or CJ while either Crowder or Bridges sat. Because we took that away this game, Bridges had to play almost the whole game, because Biz, Shamet, nor Payne could guard BI. Overall, neither could Crowder, he either let BI or CJ blow past him, or fouled them, as did Payne.
Craig wasn't the problem, and if rebounding was the problem, it was CamJo that picked up that slack, with 9 rebounds, not the guys that took Craig's minutes.
IamBBAnalysis wrote: Those 3 players didn't struggle. I'm confused. They had a little bit up and down games but overall they were positive contributers. Shamet did some good things, Payne brought much needed energy, and Johnson made a few shots.
Eye of the beholder perspective perhaps? Payne He did shoot to his season average at 40% FG (4-10). But he still missed a bunch of open layups and had numerous empty possessions in the 3rd that helped the Pels make their run. Again, in fairness, he made some shots for sure, but probably gave up as much in wasted possessions to the Pels 3rd quarter run with wasted possessions as he provided in his minutes. Also, he fouled out to quickly due to poor defensive plays/ decisions. Did he improve from before, sure by a slightly small margin and his energy was a plus. But he's still not near to the Payne of last season for us yet either, that Payne shot 48% on his FG and 44% (not his current 33%) from three. So yeah, he's still struggling somewhat.
Johnson Still struggled throughout the majority of the game with his shooting: 3-8 on his Fg ( 37%) and 8 points in 37 minutes! He normally averages around 12 points in 26 minutes and on 46% FG. So he's under his season average both in production and in FG%, and in playing significantly more minutes than his season average. He also had some minor defensive lapses scattered throughout the game. So yeah, he's struggling somewhat still too!
Shamet I love his energy and tenacity in this series, But only put up 6 points and three rebounds in 25 minutes. He also shot 2-6 on his FG%. His season average is 9 points on 39% FG in 20 minutes played, So he averaged slightly more minutes but was still under his season average both in terms of production and shooting percentage. So yeah, he's still struggling somewhat. But again his energy and tenacity was a positive.
Again, their improvement was marginal in this game and I do expect them to improve further now. Their slight improvements were definitely a positive to our momentum and energy. But let's not dilude ourselves into thinking they didn't struggle somewhat still and can improve and need to further as well.
No, not at all. You are using stats while I am talking about how they actually impacted winning/losing the game. I don't think we disagree that much though. This is what I said, "Those 3 players didn't struggle. I'm confused. They had a little bit up and down games but overall they were positive contributors." Your analysis doesn't really contradict this much. They were positive contributors.
Payne: Completely disagree. Yes, he missed some layups. He also made two big 3's, pushed the tempo, brought tons of energy, fouled out because he was making plays, and was a huge reason they won the game. I couldn't disagree with you more. I would say he was the 3rd most important player in this game for the Suns. I don't think he struggled so much as he was receiving contact on his drives and not getting calls...except one very obvious one. Also, the Suns actually did well without Paul in the game this time, for the 1st time in the series.
Johnson: I don't disagree as much here. Johnson was okay. He is still missing and he made a tentative pass at one point that showed that he is still not all there. But he made a few important shots (dunk and 3 pointer) that were key. His defense was fine.
Shamet: You said it. He played with energy, helped with ball handling, and didn't really hurt the team with poor shooting. So we don't seem to disagree. I'm not sure what you are looking for? Yes, he did not have a dominating game but he did what he should in bringing energy and not hurting the team.
All the Suns need from the role players is energy, confidence, defense and not "hurting" the team with the shooting. Not everyone is going to go OFF with big games. A couple guys is enough (Bridges in this last game).
It's ok! Apparently you and I ( for this game) just have a difference of opinion on what determines measurable impact. We are just looking through a different lens is all, and we have differing opinions is all. You believe that they were huge factors in our win, I don't! You believe that they didn't struggle, but for me, seeing as how they performed BELOW THEIR SEASONAL AVERAGES, I view that as still struggling. Did they have their individual positive moments/ contributions? Absolutely and that's great as it reflects improvement and hope for them to regain form. Hats off to them for better effort for sure!
But again, the stats I shared ( disregarded or not) are reflective of them still not yet playing as well as they have previously or even throughout the regular season. This can be considered struggling! We all struggle at times and that's fine and perfectly natural. But simply bringing energy and improved effort doesn't negate or erase that factor either. Those players have the potential or ability to play at a higher level and have repeatedly shown that. They just need to continue to improve is all.
Again, they played with better effort and brought energy, which are definitive positives. But they played below their normal levels of production/ consistency. That's wherein I determine that they are still struggling. For Payne it was composure and poise ( not playing overaggressively or at times out of control, as reflected by the subsequent empty possessions late in the 3rd and the foul accumulation too quickly throughout the game.
Aside from that he was somewhat solid. For Shamet, it was primarily production/ being assertive in his role. With Booker out and the necessity for him to clearly fill that role, more is needed from him in terms of scoring production and in being more assertive looking for his shot (shooting more). And for Johnson it's just in finding his shot again more and shooting better percentages as needed for spacing. It's funny because if both Johnson and Shamet were only shooting somewhat better, then our spacing greatly improves and Payne probably would have not rushed/ missed on those possessions for fear of getting blocked or trying to do too much. But it just shows how all things can be tied together on plays/ breakdowns in a game I suppose.
Ultimately for me, until those players play/ perform AT LEAST UP TO their seasonal averages, I ( personally) will view it as those players struggling. Just my personal perspective, nothing more. Do I like these players regardless, of course. But do I expect more from them given what they've previously shown capable of and also in considering the fact that we're now in the playoffs. And in the playoffs is the time when you ( as a player/ team) need to step your game up even more to be a legitimate contender and advance. Absolutely! All of these players HAVE PREVIOUSLY SHOWN to have played better than what they've shown in this series and even last night. So in being honest, they're still struggling, But ( in fairness) showing slightly measurable improvement too! They're going in the right direction, just not quite there yet is all.
I will Also say that we won last night not because of those particular players ( or even Paul/ Ayton/ Crowder) being huge factors. But do to Bridges having an utterly epic defensive/ offensive performance. Yes, they all had positive contributions. But it was Bridges that won us the game! I think anyone would find that fact to be incontrovertible. Ultimately we may somewhat disagree on those specific players impact/ measurable contributions for the game. But it's cool, and simply part of the game.
CamJo having 9 rebounds and 5 assists was huge as well. While his three wasn't falling, he made smart plays driving to the basket. That quick drive and dish to Ayton was awesome. He could have tear dropped it himself, but instead found the higher percentage shot with the dish. He also didn't get himself in foul trouble and luckily Monty played him big minutes.
