Trade Discussion Thread 2: DRAGIC/PICK FOR BROOKS Page 21

[albasuna]

Well you weren't talking about the entire '06 season in that post were you? I think some of you have awful memories. I'm not sure why you and others only remember his good play from that year. That was 5 years ago. I really really don't want this to happen. There is a reason we all rejoiced when he was moved to CHA.

The difference is that the situation here is much more suited for Diaw. If I remember correctly he started to struggle when Amare and Shaq came into the picture.

[Revived]

Every decent West team except for the Lakers have made a trade or at least in talks for a trade....Suns stand PAT.

Shows you the difference between an awful management and well run management.

Don't let activity equal accomplishment. Signing players and making trades for the sake of doing either is not good business. If the Suns had been a little more patient this past summer and not panicked or over reacted - would not be having to find trade partners for players like Hakim Warrick or Josh Childress and the Suns would have had a $15m TPE to use when teams are trying to offload salary

It might be time for patience and making well thought out decisions and not just fantasy basketball lets make some moves to look like we know what we are doing.

I would rather keep VC and not make a trade then make more dumb a** moves that constrict the salary cap and don't help the team.

I'd rather stand PAT than do the Bobcats trade that has been brought up but why can't we ask for players like Milsap, Hickson, Bass, Speights or even Josh Smith.

I'm pretty sure we likely have the assets to acquire any of those players mentioned above.

[toucansma]

I wonder if Diaw is merely a way for the Suns to keep Nash happy for this year and next?

[Ninjafish]

Well you weren't talking about the entire '06 season in that post were you? I think some of you have awful memories. I'm not sure why you and others only remember his good play from that year. That was 5 years ago.

Because that was the year Amare was out. It makes you wonder if perhaps Amare was what was holding him back from being as special as he was in 06. Those last two games against the Spurs in 08 seemed to back up that theory. All it took was a coaching decision to go through Diaw more for him to suddenly turn into a near triple double player again.

When Diaw was traded, many of us rejoiced because we were paying him a lot of money for him to just be a small role player on the bench. We didn't really have any room for him. I think it's more fair to judge him the year Amare was out than it does the year he was just playing 24 minutes.

[lilfishi22]

Hawks acquired Kirk Hinrich & Hilton Armstrong from the Wizards for Mike Bibby, Maurice Evans, Jordan Crawford and a draft pick.

Not a bad deal for a team trying to upgrade their PG spot.

[Frank Lee]

Every decent West team except for the Lakers have made a trade or at least in talks for a trade....Suns stand PAT.

Shows you the difference between an awful management and well run management.

Shows nothing but a biased attitude by some fans. I guess then, with your logic, any trade will be redeeming ?

As far as adding Diaw? No problem here. But I am sure there will be grumblers.

I am not sure there is a valid complaint concerning next yr's cap space. Realize VC counts for 4 mill, Diaw for 9 next yr. 5 mill difference, which is roughly the same as the MLE, which we still have to use. If the estimates are correct, and my understanding is true, that would be roughly the same as our available cap space if we kept VC. I do not think you can use both, one or the other, cap space or MLE. May be I am wrong, but it appears to be a wash and having Diaw will not change the ability/limits on free agent signings. Perhaps I could explain it better... but that crap is confusing.

[Moochiefried]

Ugh do we really want Diaw back? I liked him during his time here, but hes not the real PF that we need, and he's not even the same player he was back in the day. All reports from Charlotte are about his poor work ethic and his portly shape. I don't wanna be the place where players come to rejuvenate their careers forever. Why can't we just get someone good who we don't have to re-inspire to play better basketball?

[lilfishi22]

We're sitting on $54.5m next season assuming MP picks up his option, we pick up Dragic's team option, we buy out VC for $4m and we don't resign Hill. Assuming we're under the cap by $2m (+/-2m), we won't be able to use our MLE, meaning the only FA signings we are able to make would be with the cap space avaiable. If Diaw was to get traded here for VC, we'd be over the cap and the MLE will be available to us.

[Frank Lee]

We're sitting on $54.5m next season assuming MP picks up his option, we pick up Dragic's team option, we buy out VC for $4m and we don't resign Hill. Assuming we're under the cap by $2m (+/-2m), we won't be able to use our MLE, meaning the only FA signings we are able to make would be with the cap space avaiable. If Diaw was to get traded here for VC, we'd be over the cap and the MLE will be available to us.

The fish with the dish

So, by acquiring Diaw, we actually increase our free agent price tag? And, in theory, remain under the lux tax. Interesting.

[lilfishi22]

We'll stay under LT regardless. We don't have multiple guys on the team who will get the 10.5% pay raises next season and we'll only have the MLE and bi-annual available to us (assuming we're over the cap) and it's not enough to take us to the LT.

By acquiring Diaw or any player that would leave us over the cap next season, we'd have the MLE and bu-annual available. If not, our FA price tag would be subject to the salary cap next season and the cap space we have. Either way, I don't see us having more than $4-5m available in cap space so the MLE would increase our FA price tag.

[BobbieL]

We're sitting on $54.5m next season assuming MP picks up his option, we pick up Dragic's team option, we buy out VC for $4m and we don't resign Hill. Assuming we're under the cap by $2m (+/-2m), we won't be able to use our MLE, meaning the only FA signings we are able to make would be with the cap space avaiable. If Diaw was to get traded here for VC, we'd be over the cap and the MLE will be available to us.

the MLE is the most overrated thing in the NBA - and the Suns do not need another player with a 5 year contract for $5m per year to add to Frye, Dudley, Childress, etc

the VC trade makes sense because he will cost $4m and the Suns won't get extra cap space. So get diaw in here, get a better player, and then at the year of the year, let the contract fade away and get the cap space

[KayZee]

We'll stay under LT regardless. We don't have multiple guys on the team who will get the 10.5% pay raises next season and we'll only have the MLE and bi-annual available to us (assuming we're over the cap) and it's not enough to take us to the LT.

By acquiring Diaw or any player that would leave us over the cap next season, we'd have the MLE and bu-annual available. If not, our FA price tag would be subject to the salary cap next season and the cap space we have. Either way, I don't see us having more than $4-5m available in cap space so the MLE would increase our FA price tag.

nice break-down
It's always good to see some knowledgeable + objective posters here

instead of ridiculous trading proposals like "Let's trade V. Cater+ Childress+ Warrick+ ORL's pick which is gonna be a late 20s pick (or some other complete garbage offer) for ______(insert all star PF) and ______(insert young good player who's still in his rookie contract)"

seriously some of the offers posted on this board aren't even gonna be accepted in NBA Live, let alone real life

[lilfishi22]

MLE is not necessarily a 5year deal. It can be, but it doesn't have to be. It's like $5.5m but it can be split up into smaller and more manageable deals. Being over the cap would also make the bi-annual exception available to us, which would give us more flexibility.

[lilfishi22]

I didn't think about availability of the MLE until Frank brought up VC's effect on our cap.

[RunSunRun]

Good info fishi, I think it gives credence to ray ray's info of a Diaw / Nazr trade potentially going down. Maybe the Suns can find a way to sweeten the deal to somehow include GWall, since it appears MJ is backing out of the Portland deal.

[DRK]

Would the Jazz bite at Childress, Lopez and our 1st for Millsap? Or maybe Gortat for Milsap and NJ's 1st?

The Jazz need a Legit 7 footer if they even want CHANCE at making the playoffs this year. It also allows them to play Al Jeff at his natural PF position.

Gortat/Okur/Elson
Al Jeff/Favors/Fesenko
AK47/MIles/Hayward
Bell/Evans
Harris/Price/Watson

NJ's pick would be a Top 10 projected, and it has no protection on it. Plus, we get a borderline All star in Millsap? I think it's worth the risk giving up Gortat.

[asudevil]

We're sitting on $54.5m next season assuming MP picks up his option, we pick up Dragic's team option, we buy out VC for $4m and we don't resign Hill. Assuming we're under the cap by $2m (+/-2m), we won't be able to use our MLE, meaning the only FA signings we are able to make would be with the cap space avaiable. If Diaw was to get traded here for VC, we'd be over the cap and the MLE will be available to us.

totally incorrect.

every team has an MLE....regardless of cap space. it has a cap hold, just as an RFA would. teams can renounce the MLE.

so....for example. the cap is $58mil. lets say the suns are sitting at $55mil. they can do one of two things.....A.) hold onto their MLE and spend the $5mil, and give up the $3mil. or B.) renounce the MLE for the $3mil in cap space.

another example. cap is $58mil. suns are sitting at $48mil in salaries. A.) they can use their MLE and have $5mil in cap space to spend, or B.) renounce their MLE and have $10mil in cap space to spend on a large FA.

[lilfishi22]

I think they would rather hold onto Millsap, than to trade him just to get a proper C.

But I'd easily do either deals if it got us Millsap.

[AZWildByNature]

Anyone else notice that Carter has only played 16 mins tonight?

[Blackification]

Anyone else notice that Carter has only played 16 mins tonight?

He played like **** and pietrus and dudley didn't. That is probably why. He is not getting traded.