The One And Only Offseason Thread 2

[sdballer]

I think very poor is quite the exaggeration. He doesn't always play hard on D, but he's incredibly quick and is very good laterally. He is also pretty damn tough. I think he can definitely improve defensively, but he's not the liability some are making him out to be.

IT should be a super 6th man because what he can do is score very efficiently. He's very poor defensively, not just guarding his man but also rotating on team d. He gets tunnel vision and mostly involves teammates when he isn't able to score. As a 6th man at around 5M per, he'd be a good value. But I'm not sure that's what he wants as he's been pretty adamant about needing to be a starter and making starter money.

No. He's poor. I watch all of the Kings games. He'll use his quickness to grab some steals but he will absolutely hurt your team defensively.

[drewsprocket]

I will pull one up and edit this post with a link in a second.

Definitely not a terrible list to be on. http://bkref.com/tiny/zhLZS

Great work on that BW...thanks.

That list is a very elite list. It should be noted that not even Dragic is on that list....ugh. IT will be paid. That rumored DET deal of $24/3 could even be seen as a steal considering some of the company. Kyrie was also on a losing team last year, had very similar numbers and he just got a max extension. And IT did it in the Western conference. That said his PER is higher than Kyrie's also, which would take into account his defensive presence. I worry a little that once teams start scouting IT, his game will diminish.

Any chance we get a defensive stats breakdown from anyone? BW?

I can't help on defensive stats, and it's obvious Bled is the better defender, but as I've mentioned before, I think PG defense is a bit overrated. Most pgs are orchestrating the game and passing, and you are not guarding a guy who is shooting a ton....if he drives to the basket it's the guys in the middle that are important. No really good pg ever got shut down by a good defending pg...sure, they may make it tougher, but I think it can be a little bit overblown how important this is in the grand scheme of a game.

I do know that Dragic without Bledsoe on the court was MUCH better than the opposite despite the fact Bledsoe is the superior defender. I wouldn't be surprised if the same held true with IT.

The funny thing is, this whole time Sacramento hasn't even really believed in IT and have always talked about finding a starter. He might flourish even more if he felt valued.

PG Defense counts depending on the opponent. I wouldn't call it overrated but I appreciate your point. Ball pressure is uber important in this league. Defense counts mainly as a team...I think we'd notice the difference if we let Bledsoe walk and thomas were the starting PG. He'd be posted up on and lost on screens switching out to guys ready to pummel the hell out of him. I could care less about Thomas' numbers with the Kings. THE KINGS. It's like Swaggy P's stats or Green's career year. All filler on a virtually **** squad.
Curry, Parker, Lillard, and Paul -- those are the guys we'll lose to right there.

[bwgood77]

Some of you guys must really hate Bledsoe. Every post it's some different proposal about how to get rid of him, how we should sign and trade him, and now people thinking it's a good idea to let him walk for Isaiah Thomas. Isaiah Freaking Thomas? Next you're going to tell me we should sign and trade him for Ersan Ilyasova? Oh wait, that idea already came up.

And this Bledsoe stuff didn't just start after he got injured, as soon as we got him people were talking about flipping him in another trade and talking about what we could get for him down the line. It's inexplicable. Teams would love to have a player like Bledsoe, that's why we're talking about him getting the max, and why we're talking about Thomas getting 1/3rd of that. The only explanation I can come up with is that some fans are so strongly enamored with Dragic that they find Bledsoe threatening to Dragic's future with the Suns.

I assume much of this is directed towards me. I don't hate him. I'd love for him to sign with the Suns for $11 million a year. That still may happen. Even 12 or a little more. He is worth that.

But when people started talking more than that (especially (15-16) I feel he's not worth it. Does that mean I don't like him? Not at all. I don't think many players in the league are worth sinking that much into. And he has only started half a year, and was injured half of that year and injured before. If it was YOUR checkbook, would you not hesitate on making him your highest paid player by a long shot that you are committing to for four years? It's a bit scary. If I KNEW he was going to be completely healthy and slightly improve every year, I'd match an offer no question, mostly because he is an asset you don't want to give away for free.

[DirtyDez]

Where's that advanced stats guy pimping Thomas' PER? It's higher than Bledsoe's!!!!!!!

[sdballer]

Where's that advanced stats guy pimping Thomas' PER? It's higher than Bledsoe's!!!!!!!

He is an advanced stat winner. He gets good counting stats and shoots extremely efficiently. Just don't think his value is anything close to what his stats suggest.

[AtheJ415]

His defensive winshare was 1.3, just 0.2 below what Dragic has been 2 of the past 3 years. If it's that big a problem I'm not sure why anybody still wants Dragic around.

I think very poor is quite the exaggeration. He doesn't always play hard on D, but he's incredibly quick and is very good laterally. He is also pretty damn tough. I think he can definitely improve defensively, but he's not the liability some are making him out to be.

IT should be a super 6th man because what he can do is score very efficiently. He's very poor defensively, not just guarding his man but also rotating on team d. He gets tunnel vision and mostly involves teammates when he isn't able to score. As a 6th man at around 5M per, he'd be a good value. But I'm not sure that's what he wants as he's been pretty adamant about needing to be a starter and making starter money.

No. He's poor. I watch all of the Kings games. He'll use his quickness to grab some steals but he will absolutely hurt your team defensively.

[JTrain]

Best short guys in the league (6'2 or under, by PER):

1. Chris Paul
2. Isaiah Thomas
3. Kyrie Irving
4. Kyle Lowry
5. Mike Conley
6. Eric Bledsoe
7. Ty Lawson
8. Tony Parker
9. Patty Mills
10. Jeff Teague

See: http://bkref.com/tiny/Rsxx0

[bigfoot]

His defensive winshare was 1.3, just 0.2 below what Dragic has been 2 of the past 3 years. If it's that big a problem I'm not sure why anybody still wants Dragic around.

I think very poor is quite the exaggeration. He doesn't always play hard on D, but he's incredibly quick and is very good laterally. He is also pretty damn tough. I think he can definitely improve defensively, but he's not the liability some are making him out to be.

No. He's poor. I watch all of the Kings games. He'll use his quickness to grab some steals but he will absolutely hurt your team defensively.

82games.com shows the Kings were much better defensively when Thomas was on the court.

[SunsFanSSOL]

Some of you guys must really hate Bledsoe. Every post it's some different proposal about how to get rid of him, how we should sign and trade him, and now people thinking it's a good idea to let him walk for Isaiah Thomas. Isaiah Freaking Thomas? Next you're going to tell me we should sign and trade him for Ersan Ilyasova? Oh wait, that idea already came up.

And this Bledsoe stuff didn't just start after he got injured, as soon as we got him people were talking about flipping him in another trade and talking about what we could get for him down the line. It's inexplicable. Teams would love to have a player like Bledsoe, that's why we're talking about him getting the max, and why we're talking about Thomas getting 1/3rd of that. The only explanation I can come up with is that some fans are so strongly enamored with Dragic that they find Bledsoe threatening to Dragic's future with the Suns.

I assume much of this is directed towards me. I don't hate him. I'd love for him to sign with the Suns for $11 million a year. That still may happen. Even 12 or a little more. He is worth that.

But when people started talking more than that (especially (15-16) I feel he's not worth it. Does that mean I don't like him? Not at all. I don't think many players in the league are worth sinking that much into. And he has only started half a year, and was injured half of that year and injured before. If it was YOUR checkbook, would you not hesitate on making him your highest paid player by a long shot that you are committing to for four years? It's a bit scary. If I KNEW he was going to be completely healthy and slightly improve every year, I'd match an offer no question, mostly because he is an asset you don't want to give away for free.

I'd give him the max without hesitation. It's very low risk, as of right now, PJ Tucker is our second highest paid player. There's no one else worth spending the money on who wants to be here this year. His contract by no means will cripple our cap situation. There is no point in speculating on the severity of his injuries. We aren't the Suns medical staff, we haven't examined Bledsoe's injury. It is impossible for you to know if he's going to be healthy every year unless you can time travel. It's impossible to know whether any player is going to be healthy every year. Presumably, they haven't redflagged him if they're having ongoing negotiations about him coming back. Every contract has a risk, and for where the Suns currently are positioned, you need to take risks. Eric Bledsoe is the absolute best free agent that we can sign this year and being overly cautious can set the Suns back tremendously. Let me ask you a question, would you give Goran Dragic $16m a year next season at age 29?

[sdballer]

His defensive winshare was 1.3, just 0.2 below what Dragic has been 2 of the past 3 years. If it's that big a problem I'm not sure why anybody still wants Dragic around.

No. He's poor. I watch all of the Kings games. He'll use his quickness to grab some steals but he will absolutely hurt your team defensively.

82games.com shows the Kings were much better defensively when Thomas was on the court.

Part of that is that the Kings didn't really have a backup pg besides a 2nd rounder who only came on in the last couple weeks. And part of that is that advanced stats like defensive win shares don't always tell the whole story.

But by all means, sign him to a big deal and then see for yourself.

[mikefly3113]

I really don't understand why this is such a big deal. Just sign both of them if you can. Give Bledsoe the max if some other teams offers it and try to get Thomas on a decent 3 year deal. The dude is a proven scoring point guard. Our bench with Thomas/Goodwin/Green/Warren/Len would be the most athletic and prolific scoring bench in the league. Defense is practically non existent on the bench that squad would RUN AND GUN opposing benches out of the building.

You gotta trade Ennis though, 4 point guards is excessive. Hell 5 if were still calling Archie a pg (he's not btw).

[technoviking]

His defensive winshare was 1.3, just 0.2 below what Dragic has been 2 of the past 3 years. If it's that big a problem I'm not sure why anybody still wants Dragic around.

No. He's poor. I watch all of the Kings games. He'll use his quickness to grab some steals but he will absolutely hurt your team defensively.

82games.com shows the Kings were much better defensively when Thomas was on the court.

Ya, but who was on the court when he wasn't?

[Moochthemonkey]

And this Bledsoe stuff didn't just start after he got injured, as soon as we got him people were talking about flipping him in another trade and talking about what we could get for him down the line.

I don't remember that at all.
What I remember is some posters suggesting to flip Dragic as well as the rest of the '13 holdovers to start clean...

[JTrain]

But by all means, sign him to a big deal and then see for yourself.

Hold on. You want us to make a horrible mistake and blow on defense just to prove a point to bigfoot?

[AtheJ415]

I'm sorry, are you under the impression that one of us is Ryan McDonough? We're not, but just for the record if he thinks Thomas is worth a big deal I'm taking his scouting over yours every day. I don't care how many Kings games you've watched.

His defensive winshare was 1.3, just 0.2 below what Dragic has been 2 of the past 3 years. If it's that big a problem I'm not sure why anybody still wants Dragic around.

82games.com shows the Kings were much better defensively when Thomas was on the court.

Part of that is that the Kings didn't really have a backup pg besides a 2nd rounder who only came on in the last couple weeks. And part of that is that advanced stats like defensive win shares don't always tell the whole story.

But by all means, sign him to a big deal and then see for yourself.

[NaturalBuns]

I'm guessing Thomas left dinner without a deal something would of been reported by now

Not gonna happen ehh?

[JTrain]

I think the concern is, if we want enough free space to make a big splash in FA next year, we probably can't afford to pay bench players much. Unless we're letting Bledsoe go.

[Moochthemonkey]

His defensive winshare was 1.3, just 0.2 below what Dragic has been 2 of the past 3 years. If it's that big a problem I'm not sure why anybody still wants Dragic around.

I think very poor is quite the exaggeration. He doesn't always play hard on D, but he's incredibly quick and is very good laterally. He is also pretty damn tough. I think he can definitely improve defensively, but he's not the liability some are making him out to be.

No. He's poor. I watch all of the Kings games. He'll use his quickness to grab some steals but he will absolutely hurt your team defensively.

Because Dragic plays next to a good defender.
Nash was a worse defender, but his deficiencies there were masked because he played alongside two premier wing defenders in Marion and Bell.

[bwgood77]

I'd give him the max without hesitation. It's very low risk, as of right now, PJ Tucker is our second highest paid player. There's no one else worth spending the money on who wants to be here this year. His contract by no means will cripple our cap situation. There is no point in speculating on the severity of his injuries. We aren't the Suns medical staff, we haven't examined Bledsoe's injury. It is impossible for you to know if he's going to be healthy every year unless you can time travel. It's impossible to know whether any player is going to be healthy every year. Presumably, the haven't reflagged him if they're having ongoing negotiations about him coming back. Every contract has a risk, and for where the Suns currently are positioned, you need to take risks. Eric Bledsoe is the absolute best free agent that we can sign this year and being overly cautious can set the Suns back tremendously. Let me ask you a question, would you give Goran Dragic $16m a year next season at age 29?

I don't know what the medical staff thinks about Bledsoe, but if they are good to go, I would match a max. I would also give Dragic the max. Between the two I would likely choose Dragic right now, but that could change if I see Bledsoe play a whole year. They are our best two players. I don't know Bledsoe's medical situation, but there is at least a little bit of risk. If the front office were to let him walk, I'd guess it's for good reason. If they are looking at IT, there is a reason. It might be just to play sixth man and they plan to sink $40 million into point guards. I don't know. But IT is a really good player. I'd easily sign him for 5 over Bledsoe or 16 as SF88 suggested.

This whole discussion about paying him 16 maybe should have never started....NotTraxxe said we were giving him the max and I created a thread asking if people thought he was worth that. I guess most people do.

But I agree, it's not like you can decide who is worth what and pick your assets in the NBA, so you pay them or you lose assets. So I would pay him and keep him. Is he worth that much money? No. Is it worth matching? Yes. If McD doesn't match, I imagine he has a good reason and I would find it interesting.

[AtheJ415]

Right, and if we get Thomas on a good deal and keep Bledsoe it would be the same situation...

His defensive winshare was 1.3, just 0.2 below what Dragic has been 2 of the past 3 years. If it's that big a problem I'm not sure why anybody still wants Dragic around.

No. He's poor. I watch all of the Kings games. He'll use his quickness to grab some steals but he will absolutely hurt your team defensively.

Because Dragic plays next to a good defender.
Nash was a worse defender, but his deficiencies there were masked because he played alongside two premier wing defenders in Marion and Bell.