Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion

[Saberestar]

Toronto has sought to deal Valanciunas since the February trade deadline. They’d had conversations with Detroit and New Orleans then, sources said, and continued to have discussions around Valanciunas at the draft, but talks with the likes of Sacramento, Phoenix, Charlotte, Portland and Atlanta did not get very far.

Valanciunas could wind up being eclipsed in Toronto, even without a deal. One of the aims of the offseason for the Raptors was to both unload some salary and clear up playing time for some younger, hungrier players the Raptors have been developing. Among those are second-year men Jakob Poeltl and Pascal Siakam, and both had very good showings this summer.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-trade-rumors-free-agency-raptors-news-jonas-valanciunas-contract-kyle-lowry-demarre-carroll-patrick-patterson/vjcnx6clh5ft17vq8fd82u8ha

I know that we have talked about Valanciunas before...but would you take it for Chandler?

Chandler for Valanciunas can be a fair trade for both sides. They earn around the same money, but Valanciunas has one more year under contract.

He is an OK player...I am not a fan by any means but at least he is better than Williams or Len and way younger than Chandler.

[Revived]

Brandon Knight ranked as NBA's worst contract at the PG position

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2721454-5-worst-nba-contracts-at-every-position?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

[TOO]

Brandon Knight ranked as NBA's worst contract at the PG position

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2721454-5-worst-nba-contracts-at-every-position?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Well I guess its a good thing hes not a PG then eh?

[NTB]

Brandon Knight ranked as NBA's worst contract at the PG position

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2721454-5-worst-nba-contracts-at-every-position?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Well I guess its a good thing hes not a PG then eh?

Is he even a basketball player?

[BobbieL]

Toronto has sought to deal Valanciunas since the February trade deadline. They’d had conversations with Detroit and New Orleans then, sources said, and continued to have discussions around Valanciunas at the draft, but talks with the likes of Sacramento, Phoenix, Charlotte, Portland and Atlanta did not get very far.

Valanciunas could wind up being eclipsed in Toronto, even without a deal. One of the aims of the offseason for the Raptors was to both unload some salary and clear up playing time for some younger, hungrier players the Raptors have been developing. Among those are second-year men Jakob Poeltl and Pascal Siakam, and both had very good showings this summer.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-trade-rumors-free-agency-raptors-news-jonas-valanciunas-contract-kyle-lowry-demarre-carroll-patrick-patterson/vjcnx6clh5ft17vq8fd82u8ha

I know that we have talked about Valanciunas before...but would you take it for Chandler?

Chandler for Valanciunas can be a fair trade for both sides. They earn around the same money, but Valanciunas has one more year under contract.

He is an OK player...I am not a fan by any means but at least he is better than Williams or Len and way younger than Chandler.

No, Knight for JVal maybe but the Suns would have to trade Chandler and renounce Len.

I think just stay the course - unless something happens with Melo and you can dump Knight in that deal

I think the Suns get to the cap floor if the Bucks need to move salary for Derrick Rose and using a 1st rounder

Three teamer:
Suns: Teletovic
NYK: Knight and the Bucks pick
Milwaukee; Rose in an S&T with NYK

Otherwise - Brandon is sticking around

[Kerrsed]

Brandon Knight ranked as NBA's worst contract at the PG position

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2721454-5-worst-nba-contracts-at-every-position?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

C'mon man, thats Bleacher Report.

I'd have Reggie Jacksons deal as worse than Knights. PER36 numbers are very close, with Jackson getting paid more, 2 years older, and having Knee tendonitis.

[8on]

Let's make it clear for you **** tank lovers.

Since the year 2000 about 30% of the top 5 picks are all-star caliber. That's right a stinking three-out-of-ten chance to get an all-star player is your reward for riding the tank. We swung and missed on Len. Bender and Jackson are still great unknowns. Odds are one of them should be an all-star at some point but no guarantees. We can only hope.

The best way to get an all-star is a trade or get one in free agency. Chandler was an all-star and all-defensive player and is still one of the better big men in the league. When we traded for Knight he was viewed as all-star level talent in Milwaukee. Our team needs to play closer to .500 ball so that we can get free agents to sign with us. Look at the Wolves ... trading for and signing all-star talent so they can compete next year. We will not attract free agents until we are at least borderline playoffs. Can you imagine our young guys like Booker wanting to stick around if all we do is lose.

It disgusting to hear folks talk now about losing so we can get a high draft pick in 2018. **** at least wait until Christmas.

Nope.

If there's a 3/10 chance of getting an All-Star in the top 5, what are the chances outside of the top 5? I don't have to look it up. I know it's worse than 3/10.

Remember Robin Lopez? Markieff and Marcus Morris? Earl Clark? That's your version of a solution.

I rest my case.

[jcsunsfan]

Let's make it clear for you **** tank lovers.

Since the year 2000 about 30% of the top 5 picks are all-star caliber. That's right a stinking three-out-of-ten chance to get an all-star player is your reward for riding the tank. We swung and missed on Len. Bender and Jackson are still great unknowns. Odds are one of them should be an all-star at some point but no guarantees. We can only hope.

The best way to get an all-star is a trade or get one in free agency. Chandler was an all-star and all-defensive player and is still one of the better big men in the league. When we traded for Knight he was viewed as all-star level talent in Milwaukee. Our team needs to play closer to .500 ball so that we can get free agents to sign with us. Look at the Wolves ... trading for and signing all-star talent so they can compete next year. We will not attract free agents until we are at least borderline playoffs. Can you imagine our young guys like Booker wanting to stick around if all we do is lose.

It disgusting to hear folks talk now about losing so we can get a high draft pick in 2018. **** at least wait until Christmas.

Nope.

If there's a 3/10 chance of getting an All-Star in the top 5, what are the chances outside of the top 5? I don't have to look it up. I know it's worse than 3/10.

Remember Robin Lopez? Markieff and Marcus Morris? Earl Clark? That's your version of a solution.

I rest my case.

Tired of losing. This team should win some games. No more tanking.

[Puff]

Let's make it clear for you **** tank lovers.

Since the year 2000 about 30% of the top 5 picks are all-star caliber. That's right a stinking three-out-of-ten chance to get an all-star player is your reward for riding the tank. We swung and missed on Len. Bender and Jackson are still great unknowns. Odds are one of them should be an all-star at some point but no guarantees. We can only hope.

The best way to get an all-star is a trade or get one in free agency. Chandler was an all-star and all-defensive player and is still one of the better big men in the league. When we traded for Knight he was viewed as all-star level talent in Milwaukee. Our team needs to play closer to .500 ball so that we can get free agents to sign with us. Look at the Wolves ... trading for and signing all-star talent so they can compete next year. We will not attract free agents until we are at least borderline playoffs. Can you imagine our young guys like Booker wanting to stick around if all we do is lose.

It disgusting to hear folks talk now about losing so we can get a high draft pick in 2018. **** at least wait until Christmas.

Nope.

If there's a 3/10 chance of getting an All-Star in the top 5, what are the chances outside of the top 5? I don't have to look it up. I know it's worse than 3/10.

Remember Robin Lopez? Markieff and Marcus Morris? Earl Clark? That's your version of a solution.

I rest my case.

Tired of losing. This team should win some games. No more tanking.

Could not agree more.

[NTB]

Read on Twitter

Loll Dudley disagreed with Barnes and didn't say anything about Knight

[BobbieL]

Let's make it clear for you **** tank lovers.

Since the year 2000 about 30% of the top 5 picks are all-star caliber. That's right a stinking three-out-of-ten chance to get an all-star player is your reward for riding the tank. We swung and missed on Len. Bender and Jackson are still great unknowns. Odds are one of them should be an all-star at some point but no guarantees. We can only hope.

The best way to get an all-star is a trade or get one in free agency. Chandler was an all-star and all-defensive player and is still one of the better big men in the league. When we traded for Knight he was viewed as all-star level talent in Milwaukee. Our team needs to play closer to .500 ball so that we can get free agents to sign with us. Look at the Wolves ... trading for and signing all-star talent so they can compete next year. We will not attract free agents until we are at least borderline playoffs. Can you imagine our young guys like Booker wanting to stick around if all we do is lose.

It disgusting to hear folks talk now about losing so we can get a high draft pick in 2018. **** at least wait until Christmas.

Nope.

If there's a 3/10 chance of getting an All-Star in the top 5, what are the chances outside of the top 5? I don't have to look it up. I know it's worse than 3/10.

Remember Robin Lopez? Markieff and Marcus Morris? Earl Clark? That's your version of a solution.

I rest my case.

Tired of losing. This team should win some games. No more tanking.

I am tired of losing too. No more tanking. It should be about winning games and trying to get better. You have the core in place, you have to start getting them thinking right and playing right

[King4Day]

Good points tossed out there. Yet no one bothered to answer my question(s)

What are McDos 3 top trades and what are his 3 top FA signings?

You see, this is the problem. Sure, he drafted well with Booker and Warren, and looks to found talent in Ulis, may be Bender and Chris and Jackson... but he slowly gutted this team by letting legitimate NBA talent leave with no replacements. TheGORTAT, Dragic, Frye, Morris1, Morris2, Tucker, Thomas all left with nothing but paper coupons for dice roll draft night. Don't dissect this with the reasons they left... they still were here one day and not another....with no one of memorable value taking their places. Not even indirectly via trade.

No substantial trades were made, no significant FA signings. (Come on... DUDLEY at PF??? really ???....for example) Drafting is a given if you dont trade away your picks.... the real talent as a GM is constructing a team using picks, trades, and FAs that comes together under the right coaching staff to win games and make the playoffs. You get closer each year and just hope the window doesn't close on the very important pieces(i.e. Nash) without suitable replacement groomed to take over. A constant blend of youth and experience.... but experience that actually contributes. McDo has not done this... or at least yet. He could still yank a rabbit out of his asshat by dealing Bled and/or one of the 'saintly' youth brigade with picks etc etc... For whatever reasons he has been unable to secure an all-star caliber player from the free market. Perhaps its a subtle black listing of Sarver, or a stain on McD for his past mishandling of players, or the stubborn 'have to win/fleece' all deals attitude. Equally likely its the losing/non playoff/bad team syndrome that deters players. Don't be surprised when the current batch of youngsters get tired of it before their second contracts ...Players want to win.

Its dirty water down the drain now. We are left with this makeshift roster with huge question marks that still needs attention and improvement. It is no surprise that teams like Utah, Denver, and Minny has passed us by. (and yes @tJ... Sacramento has a kiddie core that rivals ours, look closer without the shades)

This has been a shoddy rebuild. And we are left with very little options but to develop a bunch of kids. IMO, McD has painted himself into a corner by focusing more on collecting assets than building a roster. He has more than once acquired players at positions where we already have solid talent, because he got a deal. Add in unproven rookie coaches to the mix and we end up with ONE GIANT GROWING PAIN in the A**.

Is McDo out thinking himself?

It likely too late for this year. Guess we just sit back and clank clank clank down the road. But it very well could be Commander McDos last harrah... and if the results are the same, it should be.

Regarding the top three trades, there's obviously the Bledsoe trade, the deal that allowed us to draft Chriss, and the sign and trade for Isaiah Thomas.

[8on]

Nope.

If there's a 3/10 chance of getting an All-Star in the top 5, what are the chances outside of the top 5? I don't have to look it up. I know it's worse than 3/10.

Remember Robin Lopez? Markieff and Marcus Morris? Earl Clark? That's your version of a solution.

I rest my case.

Tired of losing. This team should win some games. No more tanking.

I am tired of losing too. No more tanking. It should be about winning games and trying to get better. You have the core in place, you have to start getting them thinking right and playing right

Here's my solution: keep tanking until we get as many All-Stars as Golden State. Four sounds about right.

You want to be Portland? Charlotte? Indiana? I don't. I want to win a championship in Phoenix. Believe that. We're on our way to doing it, but we have to be patient with the guys we have.

I believe Booker, Jackson and Warren can be All-Stars. I believe Chriss and Bender can be, too, but I'm thinking we're going to need more time to make that determination.

PATIENCE. That's how Golden State did it, that's how the Spurs did it. You can add a free agent or two, but only when you have the right mix in place already (Kobe/Shaq, '04 Pistons).

(Minnesota's a 45 win team. Watch; you'll see.)

[8on]

Good points tossed out there. Yet no one bothered to answer my question(s)

What are McDos 3 top trades and what are his 3 top FA signings?

Who cares? You want to be Indiana last season?

You see, this is the problem. Sure, he drafted well with Booker and Warren, and looks to found talent in Ulis, may be Bender and Chris and Jackson... but he slowly gutted this team by letting legitimate NBA talent leave with no replacements. TheGORTAT, Dragic, Frye, Morris1, Morris2, Tucker, Thomas all left with nothing but paper coupons for dice roll draft night. Don't dissect this with the reasons they left... they still were here one day and not another....with no one of memorable value taking their places. Not even indirectly via trade.

Gortat's old.
We got great value for Dragic.
Frye's old.
Markieff got us Chriss.
Tucker's old.
Thomas was Jamal Crawford when we traded him. Also got us Chriss.
What more do you want? This is how trades are done in the NBA.
Without them, we wouldn't have Chriss or Bender. Without getting rid of the players we had, we wouldn't have finished in the places we finished and we wouldn't have Booker and Warren and Ulis......see how that works?

..Players want to win.

Yes, I know. PATIENCE.

It is no surprise that teams like Utah, Denver, and Minny has passed us by. (and yes @tJ... Sacramento has a kiddie core that rivals ours, look closer without the shades)

You want to be DENVER?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Really?

It likely too late for this year. Guess we just sit back and clank clank clank down the road. But it very well could be Commander McDos last harrah... and if the results are the same, it should be.

Nope.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Let's make it clear for you **** tank lovers.

Since the year 2000 about 30% of the top 5 picks are all-star caliber. That's right a stinking three-out-of-ten chance to get an all-star player is your reward for riding the tank. We swung and missed on Len. Bender and Jackson are still great unknowns. Odds are one of them should be an all-star at some point but no guarantees. We can only hope.

The best way to get an all-star is a trade or get one in free agency. Chandler was an all-star and all-defensive player and is still one of the better big men in the league. When we traded for Knight he was viewed as all-star level talent in Milwaukee. Our team needs to play closer to .500 ball so that we can get free agents to sign with us. Look at the Wolves ... trading for and signing all-star talent so they can compete next year. We will not attract free agents until we are at least borderline playoffs. Can you imagine our young guys like Booker wanting to stick around if all we do is lose.

It disgusting to hear folks talk now about losing so we can get a high draft pick in 2018. **** at least wait until Christmas.

Nope.

If there's a 3/10 chance of getting an All-Star in the top 5, what are the chances outside of the top 5? I don't have to look it up. I know it's worse than 3/10.

Remember Robin Lopez? Markieff and Marcus Morris? Earl Clark? That's your version of a solution.

I rest my case.

Tired of losing. This team should win some games. No more tanking.

Well yeah I think most of us would like some winning. I would love if some of the young guys took a leap and won more than they should. I think some of us are just being realistic in that if you play a bunch of guys who are under 23 you probably won't win that much. I wouldn't even mind if they picked late lotto if it was on the backs of guys who will be here long term. What I don't want is to win on the backs of guys who won't be part of the long term future. We saw that with the 48 win team; the won largely because of Dragic's career year and guys like Fry, Plumlee, and Green having career years. That instance of winning didn't automatically boost them up a level as a franchise and wasn't sustained. It's the same line of thought as to why I was against bringing in someone like Milsap. Sure they probably win like 35-40 games but then what happens when his play declines or is gone in two years? They would probably be right back to where they started with really nothing to show for it.

[BobbieL]

Tired of losing. This team should win some games. No more tanking.

I am tired of losing too. No more tanking. It should be about winning games and trying to get better. You have the core in place, you have to start getting them thinking right and playing right

Here's my solution: keep tanking until we get as many All-Stars as Golden State. Four sounds about right.

You want to be Portland? Charlotte? Indiana? I don't. I want to win a championship in Phoenix. Believe that. We're on our way to doing it, but we have to be patient with the guys we have.

I believe Booker, Jackson and Warren can be All-Stars. I believe Chriss and Bender can be, too, but I'm thinking we're going to need more time to make that determination.

PATIENCE. That's how Golden State did it, that's how the Spurs did it. You can add a free agent or two, but only when you have the right mix in place already (Kobe/Shaq, '04 Pistons).

(Minnesota's a 45 win team. Watch; you'll see.)

Golden States drafted Klay, Curry, traded Monta for Bogut, gave up two picks to get cap space for Iggy, drafted Barnes and I think Green, than filled in around that with role players; got Durant.

so, it truly was a combination of drafting, free agency, trades, good identification of role players. I actually think Mark Jackson helped building a culture that Kerr took over

So, I don't think the Suns need to tank - they should try to win with the group they have. But understand, they probably will not make play-offs - which is okay. But enough tanking - teams need to learn how to win.

[AtheJ415]

Nope.

If there's a 3/10 chance of getting an All-Star in the top 5, what are the chances outside of the top 5? I don't have to look it up. I know it's worse than 3/10.

Remember Robin Lopez? Markieff and Marcus Morris? Earl Clark? That's your version of a solution.

I rest my case.

Tired of losing. This team should win some games. No more tanking.

I am tired of losing too. No more tanking. It should be about winning games and trying to get better. You have the core in place, you have to start getting them thinking right and playing right

This is where you all are way off. Nobody is advocating intentionally throwing games. Tanking is rarely that. I am advocating playing the youngsters, which will lead to losing because that is what young players do, and not blocking their PT with needless veterans (which would win more games in the short run while hurting the core's development and leading to worse additions to the core). That is tanking. If you think it's time for us to win games, then you might as well skip watching this season because the second the FO said they were going all youth and pulling out of players like Milsap, they announced in a big way that they were tanking.

Tanking is not intentionally losing. It is worrying about long-term growth of the young players more than short-term wins. If you aren't on board with that then you aren't going to like this team for at least the next 2 seasons.

[Moochthemonkey]

Brandon Knight ranked as NBA's worst contract at the PG position

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2721454-5-worst-nba-contracts-at-every-position?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Well I guess its a good thing hes not a PG then eh?

the only contracts on that list that I think are worse than Knights are Noah's and Parsons'. And they all have three years left on the deal too. Hardaway Jr. is comparable.

Knight vs Hardaway Jr (Age: 23 vs 25)

Contract at ~18% of the salary cap (in '16) over 5 years vs a contract at ~17% of the salary cap (in '18) over 4 years. Both were considerably above market value...Knight's deal was near identical to Bledsoe's deal to avoid similar drama that happened in the previous offseason. I find it hard to believe there would have been another team that would have offered that expensive of a contract. Likewise, if the Knicks had retained Hardaway (opposed to trading him two seasons prior for the lesser Grant son, who was used in a package to acquire a disappointing rental of Rose) they could have matched any 4 year contract that would surely fall below 70.9 million.

Knight was a integral part of the Bucks turnaround season, and even though the same flaws existed to a certain degree back then, he was a borderline all-star. Hardaway didn't post the same numbers statistically in his fourth year but he made some promising improvements as a scorer (from 6 to 14 ppg)

[AtheJ415]

yes I do think we were going somewhere with Dragic and theGORTAT.... I thought we are going somewhere with Dragic and Bledsoe as the back court.... y'all act like that wasn't a good team. It was dubbed an anomaly.... we will never know will we?

Just look at the results since then.

As I said… It's dirty water down the drain now. And we are essentially back to square one, hoping for another high pick To save our A**.

Our hopes and McDs job rely on Booker and the chance that a couple 20 yr olds become something more than role players 2 yrs from now.

That's not a safe bet. But hey, we are used to the 'Wait'l next year' mindset

No. We can impute their play on their current teams and dub them appropriately. Those teams were going nowhere. At best bottom-tier playoff teams that get bounced nearly immediately with maxed-out borderline all-stars filling up all of the cap space, combined with late lottery picks that lead us to having in all likelihood much less young talent than we have right now.

What we did was dump the dirty water before the system rotted and started building a better foundation for the future. You want results now and prefer the constant recycling of old but non-elite vets who can eek their way to the playoffs. We get it.

If you want to live with the horse and boogie team that can get you some places but will never beat a car instead of trying to build a car for yourself then go for it.

[AtheJ415]

If we have an improved record, on track to finish with wins in the mid 30s, then that means our team is developing fine and we have no reason to start losing games on purpose. With an improved record, Phoenix will look like a more attractive destination for free agents and that will serve us mightily when our championship window actually opens up down the road.

If we're abysmal again, then fine, go for another top 5 pick. But with our current roster, I don't think we really need another one. We've already got several guys with star potential.

In the west it won't matter. We are getting a top 5 pick. The east has some awful teams at the bottom but they also are bad at the top. In the West LA is the only team who has a prayer of being as bad as us.