Deandre Ayton news and discussion

[bigfoot]

This third season will say everything about Ayton.

I was cautiously happy with his play before the bubble, but in Orlando he regressed and that worried me.

He is talented and has amazing physical tools, but those attributes can only carry him to where he is now. No All Star, not even a borderline All Star player and obviously not a max guy.

Every remarkable signing or trade that James Jones has done after taking over has brought in smart and hard worker basketball players, and Ayton for now does not look any of that.

Kokoskov already said "he needs to be in better shape" multiple times in his rookie season, so that is a recurring stuff.

He looks a nice guy and his potential as a franchise C on the Suns is huge yet but he needs to start showing consistent effort and better awareness from now on.

It's odd that he looked to have improved SO much most of the season and then just went back to how he played as a rookie and in college. I mean even Zach Lowe and others pointed it out.

This pretty much sums it up ... https://tinyurl.com/y8eg9mmt

[Saberestar]

I hate how Suns fans give up on bigs so easily. He has always been compared or projected to be like David Robinson even when he was in high school. But we want him to play like Zo.

Ayton is hesitating in many areas still. But watch how quickly he gets rid of defensive rebounds recently. He has obviously been working on it. It shows he can make choices quickly.

Once he translates that to other areas we will see some special things. If he focuses on creating the contact and sees some success IE no foul problems that will expedite his confidence and translate very quickly on the floor.

Huh? He plays nothing like David Robinson. People only compared his physical attributes to Robinson. Similar physique and athletic ability. Very very different players. Robinson averaged 10.2 FT/G as a rookie. Ayton averages 10.2 FT a week.

Very disappointed with Ayton so far. His defense looked great in the bubble but this dude just keeps taking 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Was hoping he'd come out looking dominate on d but he looks as bad as he ever has. Was talking his defense up in the gen board and now I'm looking like a fool.

Yeah, he's not anything like Robinson. However, Robinson was 20 in his first year in college (same age as Ayton in first year in NBA) and averaged 2.6 FTA per game...wasn't even ready to play a ton of minutes.

What is weird is Ayton averaged 5.5 FTA when he was 19 in college, so I don't know why that has changed so much.

Robinson was also 23 as a rookie.

I do wonder where all the people went that said "Bigs take a lot more time". That is somewhat right, especially the one and dones. Most of the previous era successful bigs played 3-4 years in college.

Bamba, Bagley and many of the Cs the come into the league after 1 year of college take awhile. Nurkic, Steven Adams, DeAndre Jordan too 2-5 years. None of those guys averaged many FTAs. Nurkic and Adams still don't. DeAndre Jordan was in year 5 before he even got to 3 FTA a game. Tyson Chandler, a #2 pick took a long time and never averaged many at all. AD only averaged 3.5 as a rookie to Ayton's 2.7. Gobert only averaged 3.3 his second year and was a year older. He also scored less than 10 PPG.

I'm mostly concerned about the defense, but a lot of these guys that came into the draft with him and others took time to be effective there too. Despite the complaints on offense, he is doing better than most any of those guys he came in with or any of the other guys I've mentioned.

He's also played in just over 100 games, so a little over 1 season's worth.

So although the regression on D is concerning, it's only been after the COVID quarantine times when he probably wasn't in as good of shape.

I understand guys should stay in shape but there is only so much you can do at home. And even if you run on a treadmill, that kind of exercise is far different than sprinting, stopping and moving on a basketball court. He has had 8 months off this year too which never happens in the NBA....and had to quarantine most of it.

Every player in the league has had the same problem, so quarantime times and all of that can not be an excuse for him.


And I can understand to compare Ayton to LaMarcus Aldridge, and he is an amazing player who has been an All Star multiple times so that is already a tall order to accomplish for Ayton, but to expect him at this point to be as good as David Robinson or another all-time-great C is delusional to me.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Well at least Ayton didn't come in looking like Harden

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[bwgood77]

This third season will say everything about Ayton.

I was cautiously happy with his play before the bubble, but in Orlando he regressed and that worried me.

He is talented and has amazing physical tools, but those attributes can only carry him to where he is now. No All Star, not even a borderline All Star player and obviously not a max guy.

Every remarkable signing or trade that James Jones has done after taking over has brought in smart and hard worker basketball players, and Ayton for now does not look any of that.

Kokoskov already said "he needs to be in better shape" multiple times in his rookie season, so that is a recurring stuff.

He looks a nice guy and his potential as a franchise C on the Suns is huge yet but he needs to start showing consistent effort and better awareness from now on.

It's odd that he looked to have improved SO much most of the season and then just went back to how he played as a rookie and in college. I mean even Zach Lowe and others pointed it out.

This pretty much sums it up ... https://tinyurl.com/y8eg9mmt

Not going to listen to Bickley. Give me a break. Such a hack.

[bwgood77]

Huh? He plays nothing like David Robinson. People only compared his physical attributes to Robinson. Similar physique and athletic ability. Very very different players. Robinson averaged 10.2 FT/G as a rookie. Ayton averages 10.2 FT a week.

Very disappointed with Ayton so far. His defense looked great in the bubble but this dude just keeps taking 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Was hoping he'd come out looking dominate on d but he looks as bad as he ever has. Was talking his defense up in the gen board and now I'm looking like a fool.

Yeah, he's not anything like Robinson. However, Robinson was 20 in his first year in college (same age as Ayton in first year in NBA) and averaged 2.6 FTA per game...wasn't even ready to play a ton of minutes.

What is weird is Ayton averaged 5.5 FTA when he was 19 in college, so I don't know why that has changed so much.

Robinson was also 23 as a rookie.

I do wonder where all the people went that said "Bigs take a lot more time". That is somewhat right, especially the one and dones. Most of the previous era successful bigs played 3-4 years in college.

Bamba, Bagley and many of the Cs the come into the league after 1 year of college take awhile. Nurkic, Steven Adams, DeAndre Jordan too 2-5 years. None of those guys averaged many FTAs. Nurkic and Adams still don't. DeAndre Jordan was in year 5 before he even got to 3 FTA a game. Tyson Chandler, a #2 pick took a long time and never averaged many at all. AD only averaged 3.5 as a rookie to Ayton's 2.7. Gobert only averaged 3.3 his second year and was a year older. He also scored less than 10 PPG.

I'm mostly concerned about the defense, but a lot of these guys that came into the draft with him and others took time to be effective there too. Despite the complaints on offense, he is doing better than most any of those guys he came in with or any of the other guys I've mentioned.

He's also played in just over 100 games, so a little over 1 season's worth.

So although the regression on D is concerning, it's only been after the COVID quarantine times when he probably wasn't in as good of shape.

I understand guys should stay in shape but there is only so much you can do at home. And even if you run on a treadmill, that kind of exercise is far different than sprinting, stopping and moving on a basketball court. He has had 8 months off this year too which never happens in the NBA....and had to quarantine most of it.

Every player in the league has had the same problem, so quarantime times and all of that can not be an excuse for him.


And I can understand to compare Ayton to LaMarcus Aldridge, and he is an amazing player who has been an All Star multiple times so that is already a tall order to accomplish for Ayton, but to expect him at this point to be as good as David Robinson or another all-time-great C is delusional to me.

You are right that every player in the league has had the same problem, which is likely why everyone is playing limited minutes, especially older guys like Paul playing in 4 minute spurts, etc.

Bigger guys are going to have more of a problem, particularly if they are playing in a much higher altitude than usual.

But the main thing is that Ayton is young and was just learning and improving these things last year before the 8 month layoff.

Not sure why you are bringing up Aldridge....or saying I expected him to be as good as Robinson. I certainly never said that.

[Saberestar]

Yeah, he's not anything like Robinson. However, Robinson was 20 in his first year in college (same age as Ayton in first year in NBA) and averaged 2.6 FTA per game...wasn't even ready to play a ton of minutes.

What is weird is Ayton averaged 5.5 FTA when he was 19 in college, so I don't know why that has changed so much.

Robinson was also 23 as a rookie.

I do wonder where all the people went that said "Bigs take a lot more time". That is somewhat right, especially the one and dones. Most of the previous era successful bigs played 3-4 years in college.

Bamba, Bagley and many of the Cs the come into the league after 1 year of college take awhile. Nurkic, Steven Adams, DeAndre Jordan too 2-5 years. None of those guys averaged many FTAs. Nurkic and Adams still don't. DeAndre Jordan was in year 5 before he even got to 3 FTA a game. Tyson Chandler, a #2 pick took a long time and never averaged many at all. AD only averaged 3.5 as a rookie to Ayton's 2.7. Gobert only averaged 3.3 his second year and was a year older. He also scored less than 10 PPG.

I'm mostly concerned about the defense, but a lot of these guys that came into the draft with him and others took time to be effective there too. Despite the complaints on offense, he is doing better than most any of those guys he came in with or any of the other guys I've mentioned.

He's also played in just over 100 games, so a little over 1 season's worth.

So although the regression on D is concerning, it's only been after the COVID quarantine times when he probably wasn't in as good of shape.

I understand guys should stay in shape but there is only so much you can do at home. And even if you run on a treadmill, that kind of exercise is far different than sprinting, stopping and moving on a basketball court. He has had 8 months off this year too which never happens in the NBA....and had to quarantine most of it.

Every player in the league has had the same problem, so quarantime times and all of that can not be an excuse for him.


And I can understand to compare Ayton to LaMarcus Aldridge, and he is an amazing player who has been an All Star multiple times so that is already a tall order to accomplish for Ayton, but to expect him at this point to be as good as David Robinson or another all-time-great C is delusional to me.

You are right that every player in the league has had the same problem, which is likely why everyone is playing limited minutes, especially older guys like Paul playing in 4 minute spurts, etc.

Bigger guys are going to have more of a problem, particularly if they are playing in a much higher altitude than usual.

But the main thing is that Ayton is young and was just learning and improving these things last year before the 8 month layoff.

Not sure why you are bringing up Aldridge....or saying I expected him to be as good as Robinson. I certainly never said that.

Yeah, you did not say it, but his name was on your post and a few more posts and I wanted to comment about it.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

I wish this clip showed the defensive play leading to this fastbreak because that was very good defense by Ayton there as well. And if he can dunk on freaking Anthony Davis, he can dunk on just about anyone in the league.

Crowder and CP3 just gotta it into him that they want this type of physicality and focus both offensively and defensively every night. He’s fully capable of it, that much is obvious at this point. It’s a matter of doing it consistently. Even a bad shooting game is OK because all players have it but it can’t effect his energy or defense. Props to Ayton for rebounding (no pun intended) from a very horrific performance.

[lilfishi22]

Why does it feel like Ayton just get so much less elevation as other big man dunkers? Like DeAndre Jordan seem to have no problem taking off from outside the restricted area for a one hand dunk and even guys like Jalen Smith seems to dunk it harder. It's almost like DA just doesn't have that explosive fast twitch jumping leg muscles or like he knows he just needs to jump half as high as he could because it's all he needs for a dunk and he just stays at that level

[Revived]

Why does it feel like Ayton just get so much less elevation as other big man dunkers? Like DeAndre Jordan seem to have no problem taking off from outside the restricted area for a one hand dunk and even guys like Jalen Smith seems to dunk it harder. It's almost like DA just doesn't have that explosive fast twitch jumping leg muscles or like he knows he just needs to jump half as high as he could because it's all he needs for a dunk and he just stays at that level

I think it’s because he’s not an “explosive dunker”.

Funny I’ve heard that term my whole life watching basketball but never knew what it meant till after we got Ayton.

Guys like Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, Jarret Allen, heck evening Amare etc are explosive dunkers. Ayton and even to some degree I think Embiid aren’t.

Like for example, we’ll never see Ayton doing something like this in his career going right at someone. I don’t think it’s because he doesn’t want to, I just don’t think he has the explosive ability for it.

Watch on YouTube

And that’s okay. If he can at least dunk the ball in some manner (because it’s way better than trying a difficult layup attempt) most of the time then I’ll take that at this point.

[Saberestar]

Watch on YouTube

[sunsbg]

At this point with the love for outside shooting, laying the ball rather than dunk it, and being somewhat of a good passer DA is closer to Mark Gasol than Deandre Jordan style-wise. Nothing wrong with it, so maybe time to accept it.

[bwgood77]

At this point with the love for outside shooting, laying the ball rather than dunk it, and being somewhat of a good passer DA is closer to Mark Gasol than Deandre Jordan style-wise. Nothing wrong with it, so maybe time to accept it.

He had at least 3 dunks last night and 1 or 2 others he just layed in right at the rim..not even off the backboard.

But there have been C's who were super effective at other ways of scoring, like Kareem with the sky hook. Ayton can score within 5 feet a number of ways.

[sunsbg]

At this point with the love for outside shooting, laying the ball rather than dunk it, and being somewhat of a good passer DA is closer to Mark Gasol than Deandre Jordan style-wise. Nothing wrong with it, so maybe time to accept it.

He had at least 3 dunks last night and 1 or 2 others he just layed in right at the rim..not even off the backboard.

But there have been C's who were super effective at other ways of scoring, like Kareem with the sky hook. Ayton can score within 5 feet a number of ways.

Indeed, it's somewhat frustrating Jones finished a lob from Booker as soon as he entered the game, while him and Ayton rarely connect on such (did it once later in this game though). Personally I don't care the way he finishes as long as he's taking advantage of smaller players inside. I'm fine with him shooting midrange jumpers against Gobert when he's feeling it. Chemistry with CP3 already looks good to me, so DA will get his touches inside this season and 5FTA is something I expect as a result.

[Saberestar]

At this point with the love for outside shooting, laying the ball rather than dunk it, and being somewhat of a good passer DA is closer to Mark Gasol than Deandre Jordan style-wise. Nothing wrong with it, so maybe time to accept it.

He had at least 3 dunks last night and 1 or 2 others he just layed in right at the rim..not even off the backboard.

But there have been C's who were super effective at other ways of scoring, like Kareem with the sky hook. Ayton can score within 5 feet a number of ways.

Indeed, it's somewhat frustrating Jones finished a lob from Booker as soon as he entered the game, while him and Ayton rarely connect on such (did it once later in this game though). Personally I don't care the way he finishes as long as he's taking advantage of smaller players inside. I'm fine with him shooting midrange jumpers against Gobert when he's feeling it. Chemistry with CP3 already looks good to me, so DA will get his touches inside this season and 5FTA is something I expect as a result.

Those 5 FTA were nice to see, and he was 5/5.

He is really good shooting a baby hook with the right hand, but he needs to stablish deep position to get the ball close to the basket. He did it perfectly a couple of times yesterday, we need more of that.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

It is interesting how people harp on a thing about a player for years, and then when the complaint is addressed, hardly a peep, as if no one's even noticed.

Of course I'm talking about Ayton's screens. How weak they were, and how hard they are now. Night and day out there.

Perhaps the most obvious thing we can say about Ayton based on his time here is that he's not a self-starter. He tries, but he needs others pushing him in order to get going. Hope this crew keeps kicking his ass whenever they see his effort level flag.

[bwgood77]

At this point with the love for outside shooting, laying the ball rather than dunk it, and being somewhat of a good passer DA is closer to Mark Gasol than Deandre Jordan style-wise. Nothing wrong with it, so maybe time to accept it.

He had at least 3 dunks last night and 1 or 2 others he just layed in right at the rim..not even off the backboard.

But there have been C's who were super effective at other ways of scoring, like Kareem with the sky hook. Ayton can score within 5 feet a number of ways.

Indeed, it's somewhat frustrating Jones finished a lob from Booker as soon as he entered the game, while him and Ayton rarely connect on such (did it once later in this game though). Personally I don't care the way he finishes as long as he's taking advantage of smaller players inside. I'm fine with him shooting midrange jumpers against Gobert when he's feeling it. Chemistry with CP3 already looks good to me, so DA will get his touches inside this season and 5FTA is something I expect as a result.

Yeah, I think people fail to understand that having a guy like Nash or Paul make an ENORMOUS difference. Embiid gets to the line a ton but he also has one of the best passers in the league in Simmons. Of course he is good at putting it on the floor but most fouls are done when you get passes inside and our ready to score. Usually when you put it on the floor a guy is on you and you have to take some fadeaway jumper.

The only other guys who get to the line more than 5x are Towns and to a lesser extent (between 5 and 6 FTA) are Gobert and Harrell who mostly work off lobs from very good guards or wings.

5 FTA would a very good improvement, like double...but 4 FTA, making 3 would be good and in the top 7 or 8 Cs...definitely top 10. Jokic only gets just over 4 FTA, though I know he works more outside.

[sunsbg]

It is interesting how people harp on a thing about a player for years, and then when the complaint is addressed, hardly a peep, as if no one's even noticed.

Of course I'm talking about Ayton's screens. How weak they were, and how hard they are now. Night and day out there.

Perhaps the most obvious thing we can say about Ayton based on his time here is that he's not a self-starter. He tries, but he needs others pushing him in order to get going. Hope this crew keeps kicking his ass whenever they see his effort level flag.

Yeah, some people like to harp. I wonder if Jazz board freaked out when Gobert watched Booker beat Bogdanovic on a full-court drive and Gobert just watched him trying to lay in the ball. Happened on the first play in the second half.

[bwgood77]

It is interesting how people harp on a thing about a player for years, and then when the complaint is addressed, hardly a peep, as if no one's even noticed.

Of course I'm talking about Ayton's screens. How weak they were, and how hard they are now. Night and day out there.

Perhaps the most obvious thing we can say about Ayton based on his time here is that he's not a self-starter. He tries, but he needs others pushing him in order to get going. Hope this crew keeps kicking his ass whenever they see his effort level flag.

Screens were the worst, but yes, they have to learn. And then the FTA....I mean Rubio has never been great with lobs. He is pretty good with bounce passes, but Ayton got the late start and only played so many games last year...I know that's more of an excuse but the first half of his year was still almost his rookie year if you look at total # of games, and you could tell they focused on defense more than offense in the offseason and we saw that improvement.

As a rookie he obviously had terrible guards.

[NapoleonII]

This year is everything for Ayton.

Shut up or play like the number one pick you claimed to be.

His defense last year wasn't just commendable - it was staggeringly good and a big enough sample to show it wasn't a fluke.

Offense, he has everything in his tool box to pick his spots and dominate. He just needs to stop taking so many damn middy's. When he takes these, it feels like a confidence thing. He's trying to force his way into a good game. Maybe also it stems from his finesse game, to not wanting to bang down low and get free throws. If that's the case, take his **** shots away. We have CP and Book running the show, we aren't going to settle for a bunch of trash mid-range shots.

But I'm actually not worried. CP3 was perfect here - it's gonna reveal whatever potential Ayton has and whether he has the balls to put it all together on the floor.

The only thing stopping Ayton is his mindset, his focus, and his stamina. I think Monty and Chris Paul are damn near perfect to turn this goof ball into an all-star.

[lilfishi22]

Why does it feel like Ayton just get so much less elevation as other big man dunkers? Like DeAndre Jordan seem to have no problem taking off from outside the restricted area for a one hand dunk and even guys like Jalen Smith seems to dunk it harder. It's almost like DA just doesn't have that explosive fast twitch jumping leg muscles or like he knows he just needs to jump half as high as he could because it's all he needs for a dunk and he just stays at that level

I think it’s because he’s not an “explosive dunker”.

Funny I’ve heard that term my whole life watching basketball but never knew what it meant till after we got Ayton.

Guys like Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, Jarret Allen, heck evening Amare etc are explosive dunkers. Ayton and even to some degree I think Embiid aren’t.

Like for example, we’ll never see Ayton doing something like this in his career going right at someone. I don’t think it’s because he doesn’t want to, I just don’t think he has the explosive ability for it.

Watch on YouTube

And that’s okay. If he can at least dunk the ball in some manner (because it’s way better than trying a difficult layup attempt) most of the time then I’ll take that at this point.

Yeah like it doesn't really matter how he gets his 2pts in paint as long as it's at a very high clip but it's just a bit bewildering for someone who was compared pre-draft to names like Shaq and David Robinson and having the elite athleticism and physical tools to do what they do. But he basically plays like Enes Kanter under the rim.

I just feel like for a guy that's had the taste of putting guys on posters, he would relish that feeling and would be chasing it but in a season and a half of games, I can maybe recall a handful of truly nasty dunks. Like I said, it's OK if he's not dunking it with authority as long as he gets his 2pts but it completely takes away any sort of intimidation factor out of the equation.