2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Trade season begins

[WeekapaugGroove]

I'm not opposed to trading a 1st rounder but I'd sure as hell try to make it next summers first vs something years out.

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I'd probably make it 2024's. The west is brutal and we could drop to play in if Book or even Mikal or Ayton had serious injuries..I'm talking just 7th or 8th with teams coming on at the end like GS/LAL/DAL who are at 8/9/10.

You could easily have MEM, NOP, DEN, POR, LAC, one of the 3 above or SAC or MIN get 6th.

But even if we get 6th our pick could be in the around 19 or 20...pretty good.

I think post Paul, getting something from Crowder, further development of Ayton (if he's here), Bridges, Cam, etc, may put us higher next year with potentially some teams fading some...maybe not...might depend on PG or a solid starting PF and playing Book/Bridges/Cam at 1/2/3.

Obviously I'd put protections on the pick. But also I don't really expect any move to be made until the deadline so at that point they will have a good feel for where they will finish. If the lotto is a real possibility at that point they probably shouldn't be making win now moves involving picks anyway.

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[sunsfan1o1]

He's not a #1 though and he wants a supermax. A team that supermaxes Pasqual Siakam and runs their offense through him is going exactly nowhere. I think Masai knows this. OTOH if you put him with Booker and supplement those 2 with let's say Cam Johnson or Mikal....well that's whole different scenario. Also our new owner is theoretically a multi billionaire and won't mind forking over a supermax to Siakam if it means pairing him with Booker for the next 4 years.


I mentioned it cause I heard Zach Lowe bring up the subject in his podcast a few days ago. Then I saw a quote by 1 of ESPN's basketball guys saying that "every team is watching the Raptors thinking that their guys might be available soon"

Dino fans saw the same things I did and were over in their forum talking about moving him here. It makes sense on paper. He'd give us a true #2 and would take pressure off cp3 and Booker.

I don't know what Masai would want for their guy though.

What would the Suns have to give up to acquire Gary Trent Jr? I really like his game he’s a stone cold shooter.

I guess he got into it with Nurse or something. He might not even be starting too much longer. They are all about getting rid of him. I'd happily give up Jae/Dario/23 FRP for him if we're gonna make a run. He offers some firepower off the bench and can shoot like you said.

I'd rather do the whole thing as 1 trade though:

Suns- Ayton/CamJo/Jae/Dario/23FRP

Raptors- Siakam/Koloko/Trent Jr

Gives us a PF for now and a 5 of the future. Also Trent Jr is a potential 6MOTY with us.

This is another bad trade for Phoenix. We already suck at rebounding and you’re giving away our only rebounder. Smh

[Slim Charless]

I think Ayton for Siakam is fair for both sides. The Raptors likely won't get a much better offer for Siakam from a contending team, unless they want Poole and Wiseman. Ayton fits the timeline of GTJ, Barnes, and Anunoby though and is ready to produce now while Wiseman is still unknown to be a capable NBA player.
I think if the Suns were to trade for Siakam they'd likely want to try and grab another center since Biyombo and Landale aren't great starters. I'd guess Suns would try to land Mo Bamba or Poeltl.

I think they should try and steal Koloko from them in that trade. We won't be paying CamJo if we get Siakam and they won't need Koloko since they'd have just traded for a 24 yr old Ayton so an additional swap makes sense for the 2 teams.

[Slim Charless]

What would the Suns have to give up to acquire Gary Trent Jr? I really like his game he’s a stone cold shooter.

I guess he got into it with Nurse or something. He might not even be starting too much longer. They are all about getting rid of him. I'd happily give up Jae/Dario/23 FRP for him if we're gonna make a run. He offers some firepower off the bench and can shoot like you said.

I'd rather do the whole thing as 1 trade though:

Suns- Ayton/CamJo/Jae/Dario/23FRP

Raptors- Siakam/Koloko/Trent Jr

Gives us a PF for now and a 5 of the future. Also Trent Jr is a potential 6MOTY with us.

This is another bad trade for Phoenix. We already suck at rebounding and you’re giving away our only rebounder. Smh

What?

We get taller and younger with the addition of Koloko-who's a 21 year old 7 footer already grabbing 4 boards a game and the difference between Ayton and Siakam is only 1 board a game. So I made us longer, bigger, taller and younger and averaging more boards a game actually.

[bwgood77]

I think Ayton for Siakam is fair for both sides. The Raptors likely won't get a much better offer for Siakam from a contending team, unless they want Poole and Wiseman. Ayton fits the timeline of GTJ, Barnes, and Anunoby though and is ready to produce now while Wiseman is still unknown to be a capable NBA player.
I think if the Suns were to trade for Siakam they'd likely want to try and grab another center since Biyombo and Landale aren't great starters. I'd guess Suns would try to land Mo Bamba or Poeltl.

Depends...I wouldn't be surprised if Atlanta would give up something like Okongwu and Collins. Trae/DJM/Hunter/Siakam/Capela would be pretty good. Collins to Siakam a huge upgrade and Okongwu doesn't play a ton. Atlanta desperately needs to do something.

Makes Toronto younger.

[Slim Charless]

I think Ayton for Siakam is fair for both sides. The Raptors likely won't get a much better offer for Siakam from a contending team, unless they want Poole and Wiseman. Ayton fits the timeline of GTJ, Barnes, and Anunoby though and is ready to produce now while Wiseman is still unknown to be a capable NBA player.
I think if the Suns were to trade for Siakam they'd likely want to try and grab another center since Biyombo and Landale aren't great starters. I'd guess Suns would try to land Mo Bamba or Poeltl.

Depends...I wouldn't be surprised if Atlanta would give up something like Okongwu and Collins. Trae/DJM/Hunter/Siakam/Capela would be pretty good. Collins to Siakam a huge upgrade and Okongwu doesn't play a ton. Atlanta desperately needs to do something.

Makes Toronto younger.

That's a good trade actually.

Much better than your SAS silliness. Masai is not trading the potential DPOTY for Poetl and ADDING value in the form of a young talented center. He's considered 1 of the best GMs in the league, not Vlade Divac or Billy King lmao. I can see ATL doing that, but I'm not sure if Dinos need another 6'8ish guy, they have a ton on that team-even after trading Siakam.

[Blonde]

Ayton plus salary filler and a couple picks for Siakam is a move I’m willing to make if it was available and if Paul starts showing more signs of life. If Paul is really done then I’d hold onto those picks. We’d be scrambling for a starting center but we’ve been scrambling for a starting PF and Siakam fits that better than just about anyone. I don’t really buy into him getting a supermax contract.

[NapoleonII]

Playoffs are all about match-ups.

Ayton matches up better than anyone not named Embiid vs. Jokic/AD and the Warriors, and far better than anyone we could conceivably get. Every trade where Ayton leaves, we get a worse chance of making the finals.

I could also see the Pelicans / Mavericks / Trailblazers killing us on the boards without Ayton.

[Qwigglez]

I thought Collins was perceived as having negative value currently with the way he’s been playing this season. Okongwu is also in his third season and has hardly progressed this season from last. He’s even had ample time to showcase his talent with Collins and Capella missing time and Okongwu hasn’t done anything significant.

I’m confused how Okongwu and Collins can land Siakam but Ayton can only get the likes of Poeltl and McDermott

[sunskerr]

I thought Collins was perceived as having negative value currently with the way he’s been playing this season. Okongwu is also in his third season and has hardly progressed this season from last. He’s even had ample time to showcase his talent with Collins and Capella missing time and Okongwu hasn’t done anything significant.

I’m confused how Okongwu and Collins can land Siakam but Ayton can only get the likes of Poeltl and McDermott

Okongwu is an athletic 6'8" switching center. He's got the ceiling of like a Rob Williams type of player, which is still a really nice ceiling, although Okongwu's lateral speed is better...probably the quickest feet of any full time center. A per 36 monster like Rob Williams too but his blocks haven't been there this year. There's a lot of teams that would want him.

More worrying is John Collins whose shooting %s have dived and his finger that was injured last year still looks deformed.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Siakam is awesome. He was one of my favorite players, but the year after Kawhi he really struggled and couldn't shoot, which was also the year we went to the finals and Ayton's defensive and efficiency had improved significantly, and Ayton killed it in the playoffs, as one of our best players and best at times, I may have leaned Ayton because they seemed to be going in opposite directions. But since then Siakam has not only gotten back to where he was, but better...last year and even better this year. I don't see how you could pass up that trade, but I'd be shocked if Toronto was to do that. It's not often you have a 24/8/7 player who is 6'9 with a 7'3 wingspan and can play defense, defend multiple positions, play PF or C and maybe some SF if needed.

There are probably only a handful of players in the NBA who meet or exceed his pt/reb/ast totals and they are likely all MVP candidates.

He's not a #1 though and he wants a supermax. A team that supermaxes Pasqual Siakam and runs their offense through him is going exactly nowhere. I think Masai knows this. OTOH if you put him with Booker and supplement those 2 with let's say Cam Johnson or Mikal....well that's whole different scenario. Also our new owner is theoretically a multi billionaire and won't mind forking over a supermax to Siakam if it means pairing him with Booker for the next 4 years.


I mentioned it cause I heard Zach Lowe bring up the subject in his podcast a few days ago. Then I saw a quote by 1 of ESPN's basketball guys saying that "every team is watching the Raptors thinking that their guys might be available soon"

Dino fans saw the same things I did and were over in their forum talking about moving him here. It makes sense on paper. He'd give us a true #2 and would take pressure off cp3 and Booker.

I don't know what Masai would want for their guy though.

What would the Suns have to give up to acquire Gary Trent Jr? I really like his game he’s a stone cold shooter.

Shamet/ Craig/ 2nd?
Although aside from better defense ( disruptive and steals) he's been a streaky shooter and up and down player with very similar traits, production, efficiency to Shamet. Only he's going to be making 18 million to Shamet's 10 million this next season. For comparison:
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=shamela01&player_id1=trentga02&sum=0&request=1

So if we're being honest, I'm not sure I'd even want to give them Craig or a 2nd given his very similar inconsistencies to Shamet and his much bigger contract. If it was a straight swap of salary for salary ( mostly) or with incentives coming back to us for taking on his additional salary, then maybe I might find it palatable. But currently he's only a slightly better Shamet but that value is offset by his 17 million this season and 18 million next season.

Maybe if they'd do something around Shamet/ Saric for Trent/ Achiuwa/ Toronto 23 2nd? Then perhaps I'd be inclined to take a swing on him. Otherwise I would likely look to a different option. Maybe even Boucher instead due to our rebounding and recovery defensive needs. Especially since Boucher can hit the three adequately too.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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( 16 minute video)
Doesn't really mention the suns here and overtly promotes his ESPN insider report to actually get that information. But he does mention a few interesting view points on teams like Atlanta, Washington, Chicago, Toronto, Flakers, etc.

[sunsfan1o1]

I guess he got into it with Nurse or something. He might not even be starting too much longer. They are all about getting rid of him. I'd happily give up Jae/Dario/23 FRP for him if we're gonna make a run. He offers some firepower off the bench and can shoot like you said.

I'd rather do the whole thing as 1 trade though:

Suns- Ayton/CamJo/Jae/Dario/23FRP

Raptors- Siakam/Koloko/Trent Jr

Gives us a PF for now and a 5 of the future. Also Trent Jr is a potential 6MOTY with us.

This is another bad trade for Phoenix. We already suck at rebounding and you’re giving away our only rebounder. Smh

What?

We get taller and younger with the addition of Koloko-who's a 21 year old 7 footer already grabbing 4 boards a game and the difference between Ayton and Siakam is only 1 board a game. So I made us longer, bigger, taller and younger and averaging more boards a game actually.

Are you trying to win a chip or rebuild? Don’t compare Siakams rebounding to Ayton. There’s no comparison. Who’s starting at the 5 on this team? The rookie, or our 3rd string centers? I wouldn’t trade anyone but Crowder and shamet and picks. And who is our three-point specialist? The inconsistent Gary Trent JR?
And you’re giving them a FRP? Wowzas!!!
Toronto would accept the deal disconnect the phone then change the number so Jones can’t call back and change his mind.
This trade kills our defense, kills our rebounding, kills our 3pt shooting. It’s just a terrible trade. Ayton is much better than Siakam. Don’t look at the stats. Look at what they do for the team.

[lilfishi22]

This is another bad trade for Phoenix. We already suck at rebounding and you’re giving away our only rebounder. Smh

What?

We get taller and younger with the addition of Koloko-who's a 21 year old 7 footer already grabbing 4 boards a game and the difference between Ayton and Siakam is only 1 board a game. So I made us longer, bigger, taller and younger and averaging more boards a game actually.

Are you trying to win a chip or rebuild? Don’t compare Siakams rebounding to Ayton. There’s no comparison. Who’s starting at the 5 on this team? The rookie, or our 3rd string centers? I wouldn’t trade anyone but Crowder and shamet and picks. And who is our three-point specialist inconsistent Gary Trent JR?

I like Siakam and similar to BW, I was disappointed with his progression after he won a championship but the past season or so he's really stepped up and looking like a legit #2 guy again. That said, I am really worried about his next contract. It's going to be at least $40m and likely approaching $50m a year.

Would I do Siakam for Ayton (everything else is really fillers)? I think I have to because Siakam is just the better player right now and is more akin to a true #2 than Ayton likely will ever be. But the biggest hold up for me is Siakam's contract and his impact on the salary cap. While Ayton's contract isn't great, it does cap out at $35.5m (in 25-26) which is what Siakam is on this season and heading for a pretty big jump with his next contract. Having two guys on supermax (or near supermax) deals is going to really limit what you can do with the rest of the team.

The only way I would do it is if I felt strongly we could win a title within the next 2-3 years with Booker/Siakam because after that, we're pretty much locked into whatever we have with very few avenues to get better. I don't feel strongly right now.

[Ryu]

Playoffs are all about match-ups.

Ayton matches up better than anyone not named Embiid vs. Jokic/AD and the Warriors, and far better than anyone we could conceivably get. Every trade where Ayton leaves, we get a worse chance of making the finals.

I could also see the Pelicans / Mavericks / Trailblazers killing us on the boards without Ayton.

Absolutely. Trade DA (and the guy above is willing to add a couple of first rounders, SMH) for Siakam and that is the first round exit. We would have zero rebounders and much worse defense.

[sunsfan1o1]

What?

We get taller and younger with the addition of Koloko-who's a 21 year old 7 footer already grabbing 4 boards a game and the difference between Ayton and Siakam is only 1 board a game. So I made us longer, bigger, taller and younger and averaging more boards a game actually.

Are you trying to win a chip or rebuild? Don’t compare Siakams rebounding to Ayton. There’s no comparison. Who’s starting at the 5 on this team? The rookie, or our 3rd string centers? I wouldn’t trade anyone but Crowder and shamet and picks. And who is our three-point specialist inconsistent Gary Trent JR?

I like Siakam and similar to BW, I was disappointed with his progression after he won a championship but the past season or so he's really stepped up and looking like a legit #2 guy again. That said, I am really worried about his next contract. It's going to be at least $40m and likely approaching $50m a year.

Would I do Siakam for Ayton (everything else is really fillers)? I think I have to because Siakam is just the better player right now and is more akin to a true #2 than Ayton likely will ever be. But the biggest hold up for me is Siakam's contract and his impact on the salary cap. While Ayton's contract isn't great, it does cap out at $35.5m (in 25-26) which is what Siakam is on this season and heading for a pretty big jump with his next contract. Having two guys on supermax (or near supermax) deals is going to really limit what you can do with the rest of the team.

The only way I would do it is if I felt strongly we could win a title within the next 2-3 years with Booker/Siakam because after that, we're pretty much locked into whatever we have with very few avenues to get better. I don't feel strongly right now.

That’s where we disagree. I think Ayton is better than Siakam. And I don’t think it’s close.

Ayton’s stats are not eye popping but the impact he has on the team is more important than what Siakam would be.

What Siakam is asked to do for the Raptors won’t be the same as on the Suns.

I would only do a Crowder and pick for Siakam and throw in Shamet or some other trash we have.

Trading all that for Siakam would make the Suns a non threat.

[bwgood77]

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[bwgood77]

I think Ayton for Siakam is fair for both sides. The Raptors likely won't get a much better offer for Siakam from a contending team, unless they want Poole and Wiseman. Ayton fits the timeline of GTJ, Barnes, and Anunoby though and is ready to produce now while Wiseman is still unknown to be a capable NBA player.
I think if the Suns were to trade for Siakam they'd likely want to try and grab another center since Biyombo and Landale aren't great starters. I'd guess Suns would try to land Mo Bamba or Poeltl.

Depends...I wouldn't be surprised if Atlanta would give up something like Okongwu and Collins. Trae/DJM/Hunter/Siakam/Capela would be pretty good. Collins to Siakam a huge upgrade and Okongwu doesn't play a ton. Atlanta desperately needs to do something.

Makes Toronto younger.

That's a good trade actually.

Much better than your SAS silliness. Masai is not trading the potential DPOTY for Poetl and ADDING value in the form of a young talented center. He's considered 1 of the best GMs in the league, not Vlade Divac or Billy King lmao. I can see ATL doing that, but I'm not sure if Dinos need another 6'8ish guy, they have a ton on that team-even after trading Siakam.

The SAS one was for Ayton...something it seems like Jones would do for a cheaper C and a shooter. I know others have brought up Poeltl too like Revived mentioned trading Ayton for him once I think and I'm sure bigfoot, Kleon, maybe diddy and others would do it.

It just depends. He's pretty solid. I like Poeltl and some like him a lot.

But no, not for Toronto. I already said I didn't think they'd do Ayton either...I think something like this ATL one would be the type of trade they might go after IF he was on the table.

But like I said, I don't think they will trade Siakam.

Why would they? How many guys avg 24/8/7?

I think it's just Luka and Jokic. LeBron is close. That's it. You don't trade guys like that.

[Slim Charless]

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Mikal should be #1 as Timelord is a walking injury risk. I'll grant his defense is way better than Mikal's but that does you no good when he's sitting on the bench in street clothes.