2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

[RaisingArizona]

Who is our new tank commander?

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Although I'd be more than open to a Chet Holmgren centerpiece return in a KD to OKC premise, I just don't think there's any way they'd give Holmgren over Hartenstein as he's younger, bigger, more versatile with actual floor spacing, and most importantly, hge's cost controlled which will be critical to the Thunders' interests towards cap flexibility enabling then to not only give Shai his suprmax in the coming years, but also pay their core players in Jalen Williams, Holmgren himself etc.

And right now they're hard-capped at the 1st apron with only 12 million in cap space before crossing into the 2nd apron. Before even needing to extend Holmgren, J Will, Dieng, Mitchell, etc, and then Shai's supermax shortly after. So they'll be scrambling to cut any big money outside of Shai himself in order to absorb the contract extensions, etc, and keep their young core together around Shai for as long as possible. As I was explaining to Frank Lee yesterday.

Hartenstein being a very good version of Nurkic, basically, but clearly overpaid on a mini max type deal.
https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=nurkiju01&player_id1=harteis01&request=1&utm_source=bbr&utm_id=harteis01&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison

They're basically the same player, except with Hartenstein being a somewhat better scorer around the rim, But obviously both are/were overpaid for their positional skillset despite being productive. Only Nurkic is making 18 million and Hartenstein is making almost double what Nurkic makes for less production, in that context, his value is just not that positive (maybe neutral) and definitely wouldn't be a "holdup" factor in any KD trade considerations.......LOL. Not being an obsessive interest but more a logical inclusion necessary for the multitude of reasons that I've shared for Frank Lees' reflection on the premise.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Who is our new tank commander?

It's more of a joint venture I believe between:

[BobbieL]

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That was with Monty as his coach and CP3 as his sidekick. We have regressed badly after those decisions were made.

Sometimes I wonder if Book liked the firing of Monty and the trade of CP3 for Beal. It appeared that all three of those guys were on the same page. Was Book ever consulted on these two moves or did Isiah Thomas make those decisions or was it Bartelstein?

Quite frankly if I were Book I would request a trade out of this shythole this summer.

The best thing Booker can do for the Suns franchise is request a trade

[Sunsdeuce]

Who is our new tank commander?

Devin and his stat padding.

[SunsRback4Good]

Who is our new tank commander?

Devin and his stat padding.

Devin and Sunsdeuce

[MrMiyagi]

Who is our new tank commander?

Devin and his stat padding.

Devin and Sunsdeuce

sitting in a tree p-a-d-d-i-n-g

[SideSwipe]

Devin and his stat padding.

Devin and Sunsdeuce

sitting in a tree p-a-d-d-i-n-g

No offense, but that guy was leading us to the finals while you were trying to figure out your pun. Stat padding, pfft!

He has led, and will lead. This is a poorly constructed team around Devin. He needs to know we need him every night and he will rise as he has done before. He will do it again. If Devin is a stat padder then so is Michael Jordan- which he wasn't. Every superstar needs the right players around them to achieve their maximum potential and win championships. Not Michael, Lebron, Curry, Duncan, or anyone did it alone. They all got help at the right positions from the right kind of players. Food for thought.

[lilfishi22]

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This just gets more and more hilariously sad! The spinjobs around the lies just keep getting more ridiculous as time passes!

Long term move that included a single FRP

What a kick in the nuts for Mavs fans

[Ghost of Kleine]

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That was with Monty as his coach and CP3 as his sidekick. We have regressed badly after those decisions were made.

Sometimes I wonder if Book liked the firing of Monty and the trade of CP3 for Beal. It appeared that all three of those guys were on the same page. Was Book ever consulted on these two moves or did Isiah Thomas make those decisions or was it Bartelstein?

Quite frankly if I were Book I would request a trade out of this shythole this summer.

The best thing Booker can do for the Suns franchise is request a trade

I'd like to do right by him by trading him to Detroit for a package of Stewart/ Ivey/ Thompson, or Holland/ Klintman/ DET 26' 1st/ DET 28' 1st/ 30' 1st.

And of course first trade KD to one of these 3 teams:
1- Houston for D Brooks/ Sheppard/ J Smith Jr/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st.

2- OKC for Hartenstein (Frank Lee / Caruso/ Dieng/ Topic/ LAC 1st (17th pick)/ UTA 25' 1st (Likely becomes a 26' lotto pick)/ DAL 28' 1st.

3- Miami for Rozier/ Robinson/ Jovic/ Larson/ Miami 25' 1st (11th pick)/ GS 25' 1st ( 22nd pick).
*** Then we trade Allen for Bidatze and O'neale for 2nds'

Ideally, though we'd do Booker to Detroit and KD to Houston and end up with:

Sheppard / Brooks / Thompson /J Smith Jr / Richards.
Larrea / Ivey / Dunn / Stewart / Bidatze.
Gillspie/ Whitmore/ Klintman/ Bol/ Ighodaro.
- PHX 25' 1st.
- CLE 25' 1st.
- DEN 25' 2nd.
- DET 26' 1st.
- UTA 26' 2nd/ 26' 2nd (via NOP or POR).
- PHX 27' 1st.
- CLE 27' 1st.
- DET 28' 1st.
- DET 30' 1st.
That's 7 total firsts and 3 2nds.

[garrick]

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How long before Booker asks out??

Heres the context:

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Not that Booker isnt guilty of it too, but this is Bol Bol in a nutshell

Yeah his help defense is horrible as he never knows where he should be and he's a step slow as well but on this play I blame KD for not rotating over as well as KD should have slid to the open man and then Bol Bol should have rotated to help on whoever KD was guarding.

[lilfishi22]

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How long before Booker asks out??

Heres the context:

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Not that Booker isnt guilty of it too, but this is Bol Bol in a nutshell

Yeah his help defense is horrible as he never knows where he should be and he's a step slow as well but on this play I blame KD for not rotating over as well as KD should have slid to the open man and then Bol Bol should have rotated to help on whoever KD was guarding.

A defensive break down caused by one player will almost always impact defensive rotations as a whole. KD knew Tyus would be on FVV because Bol had the weakside big. Until Bol didn't have the weakside big and Tyus had to make the decision on to rotate baseline to cover the easy 2 hoping KD would then also slide over.

[dremill24]

Heres the context:

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Not that Booker isnt guilty of it too, but this is Bol Bol in a nutshell

Yeah his help defense is horrible as he never knows where he should be and he's a step slow as well but on this play I blame KD for not rotating over as well as KD should have slid to the open man and then Bol Bol should have rotated to help on whoever KD was guarding.

A defensive break down caused by one player will almost always impact defensive rotations as a whole. KD knew Tyus would be on FVV because Bol had the weakside big. Until Bol didn't have the weakside big and Tyus had to make the decision on to rotate baseline to cover the easy 2 hoping KD would then also slide over.

Yeah the breakdown is Bol I think. Eveeything just cascades from him. Hes the low man and likely is in the mode of having to tag the roller off the PnR. But he just doesnt think...you dont have to tag the roll man if A) he isnt rolling to the hoop, and B) his primary defender (Oso) stays attached. They functionally iced the would-be ball screen and the ball handler immediately gave it up so there was no trigger to help! The ball handler did not force engagement from Oso so he was in position to stay with his Sengun assignment. Now your defense is compromised for no friggin reason.

Rotating to the shooter is less clear. At that point either Jones has to leave the guy at the basket to close out with Bol/Oso backfilling or KD has to rotate with Bol backfilling. Obviously the latter requires less ground to be covered in this situation but I do see them sending the Jones spot out to corner shooters at times, so not 100% sure what the 'expected' response would be based on planning. Would sure be nice if they knew tho lol. Jones seemingly made a choice to stay for the box out...KD was seemingly expecting someone else to be there (or just didnt feel like moving lol).

[Sunsdeuce]

I don’t care whose fault it is for that broken defensive play. It happens. What I have a problem with is Booker giving attitude for defensive problems when he is one of the worst defenders on the team.

Booker blaming/scolding other people for poor defense is equivalent to a chain smoker scolding people for smoking.

[lilfishi22]

I don’t care whose fault it is for that broken defensive play. It happens. What I have a problem with is Booker giving attitude for defensive problems when he is one of the worst defenders on the team.

Booker blaming/scolding other people for poor defense is equivalent to a chain smoker scolding people for smoking.

You have a problem with everything Booker does so this is no surprise

[garrick]

Yeah his help defense is horrible as he never knows where he should be and he's a step slow as well but on this play I blame KD for not rotating over as well as KD should have slid to the open man and then Bol Bol should have rotated to help on whoever KD was guarding.

A defensive break down caused by one player will almost always impact defensive rotations as a whole. KD knew Tyus would be on FVV because Bol had the weakside big. Until Bol didn't have the weakside big and Tyus had to make the decision on to rotate baseline to cover the easy 2 hoping KD would then also slide over.

Yeah the breakdown is Bol I think. Eveeything just cascades from him. Hes the low man and likely is in the mode of having to tag the roller off the PnR. But he just doesnt think...you dont have to tag the roll man if A) he isnt rolling to the hoop, and B) his primary defender (Oso) stays attached. They functionally iced the would-be ball screen and the ball handler immediately gave it up so there was no trigger to help! The ball handler did not force engagement from Oso so he was in position to stay with his Sengun assignment. Now your defense is compromised for no friggin reason.

Rotating to the shooter is less clear. At that point either Jones has to leave the guy at the basket to close out with Bol/Oso backfilling or KD has to rotate with Bol backfilling. Obviously the latter requires less ground to be covered in this situation but I do see them sending the Jones spot out to corner shooters at times, so not 100% sure what the 'expected' response would be based on planning. Would sure be nice if they knew tho lol. Jones seemingly made a choice to stay for the box out...KD was seemingly expecting someone else to be there (or just didnt feel like moving lol).

Also on this play and many other plays I don't see anyone barking orders on defense like CP3 used to do.

Tyus should be telling Bol who to cover because we all know Bol is clueless on rotations although Tyus is not a defensive stalwart either and KD needs to be aware of the backside defense and be aware that Bol is probably going to be an idiot and not rotate to the correct spot.

It's just another indictment on JJ and Ishbia of failing to recognize what kind of players we need and a signal that we need to overhaul this entire roster if that is even possible.

[Frank Lee]

Nothing wrong with keeping book
He isn’t going to lose value.
Don’t really trust these azzhats to get too bold. There’s no rush. We are two yrs out from anything. Pump the brakes on this blow up. Knee jerking got us into this mess

[Ghost of Kleine]

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CMB with a Draymond Green/ Barkleyesque archetype power wing/forward. Plays with power and physicality and cares about defense. Sounds like the type of player we could really use!

[MrMiyagi]

Devin and Sunsdeuce

sitting in a tree p-a-d-d-i-n-g

No offense, but that guy was leading us to the finals while you were trying to figure out your pun. Stat padding, pfft!

He has led, and will lead. This is a poorly constructed team around Devin. He needs to know we need him every night and he will rise as he has done before. He will do it again. If Devin is a stat padder then so is Michael Jordan- which he wasn't. Every superstar needs the right players around them to achieve their maximum potential and win championships. Not Michael, Lebron, Curry, Duncan, or anyone did it alone. They all got help at the right positions from the right kind of players. Food for thought.

That is completely fair. I got carried away in SunsRback4Good's silliness. I like Booker. I'd love to be able to watch him for his whole career. KD and Beal have likely ruined that chance. I hope I'm wrong.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Transition defense is also a huge issue for us. This speaks to our needs for multiple high end athletes that can recover and chase down fast breaks from broken plays. Our roster is just too old, too slow to unathletic to prevent or deter this issue.

Between this and the free throw parade we allow to the rim without top end rim protection, we're giving up more easy points that we score! We desperately need to load up on high end, fast, long, physical high motor athletes all throughout our roster.