2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch - Revised Poll

[Slim Charless]

It's a tough call but I'd say if we jumped into the top 4 then Toppin would be my choice, just because of the ability to strech out more then Okgongwu. In theory we should have a pretty good defensive frontcourt on our hands with Bridges and Ayton. Toppin's ability to bring out opposing 4s will help Ayton a lot and his defensive weaknesses won't be as bad with the other 2 guys he plays with. Now Cam has done a great job in the bubble but it remains to be seen if he can put up a whole season worth of banging with bigger dudes. Toppin has been playing that spot his whole career and came away with tons of awards for his play.

I haven't seen others bring up is his age and how he's a lot more advanced then others in this class. We appear to be further along the path then any of us figured so getting players that are more ready to play right now is better then shooting our shot on some guy who needs years to be productive on a playoff team. Also, Toppin as a soph had guys going at him every night and still produced. He was playing in a "lesser" conference but still.

I'd also say that IF we actually did jump up that high then the first move JJ needs to make is call up Philly and see what it would take to grab Simmons. Philly can't be happy about how this year went and if they're gonna be talked out of him, this is the time as he's probably at his all time low in value. Him, at the 3/4 would look great with Cam, Ayton, and Booker. Paynes/Carter tag-team at point is fine since Simmons would be handling all the play making duties anyway. I think Bridges, Rubio, that (top 4) 1st and another future first might get it done if they were actually gonna make a move.

I was reading your post when you got to the Simmons part thinking "I'm not sure Simmons is a good fit with this..you really need 3 pt shooters around Ayton (hoping Ayton starts finishing strong inside)".....but then when you go to the Rubio, Bridges, pick and another pick for him, no way. I can't even think of a trade package I could come up with that they might consider. I think they liked Saric, so if somehow it could be had for Saric, Oubre and a pick, maybe, but then that leaves you with him and Rubio. Of course it makes sense for Rubio to be in the deal (and Saric really can't with another player I don't think..so it would have to be Rubio/Oubre/pic), but I really like Rubio and he is a real pro and had his best shooting season..works well with Booker..better than I ever would have anticipated. All those 3s Rubio doesn't hesitate on, Simmons would drive. He wouldn't be guarded out there. Booker would be doubled more. As good as Simmons is, I would probably not look into it....why mess with something that much when we FINALLY are looking really good?

I was thinking about putting Oubre in there but decided against it due to him being injured and up for another contract soon. Part of the reason Philly would do this is they are cap strapped with Embiid, Horford and imo the most overpaid player in the league, Harris locked in for years. They wouldn't really want to have to give Oubre more $$. Bridges gives them a homegrown, 2-way player that's cheap. As for us, Simmons would be taking Bridges spot so there's actually an increase in the defense being played and the play-making available. Obvious problems are yes, Simmons and Ayton on the floor at the same time makes for tougher spacing but with Cam, Book and the PG combo we'd have it'd be worth it to try. I'd start him at the 3/4 as well so that'd hopefully reduce the overall impact of his crappy shooting since he wouldn't a back court player anymore. The Paynes/Carter combo both can shoot and 1 of which would always be out there at PG to balance his shooting (or lack there of).

Simmons is probably a top-10 player in league right now. God knows what happens if he gets a shot. IDK if you play with the stock market but this would be like buying stocks back in March. You're getting him at the lowest value he's likely to ever have. I'm no fan of getting rid of the guys that have put us back on the map, but Simmons is likely 1st team all defense and one of, if not the best play makers/passers in the league. As to team morale and all of that. I would imagine that Booker would be there waiting at the airport to pick Ben up the second that that plane landed. That might be his best friend in the league.

[bwgood77]

If we were to draft Toppin (or Okongwu), what happens to our roster at that point? What do we do with Cam, KO, Saric? I guess the same can be said if we draft a PG - what happens to our guard lineup then?

You just add the depth. Toppin fights for playing time against whoever else is there. Obviously we still need to see what happens in free agency and Oubre.

But our bench was awful this season. It played well in the bubble, surprisingly even without Oubre and Baynes available, but we also only played two teams with their regular starting units...the Mavs and Clips...both came down to the end...kind of lucked out against the Mavs.

We have a good thing going but we always deal with a lot of injuries...we did this year and it killed us. We have to remember we can't assume we will stay healthy.

I wonder what they think about Jerome and his future. If he wasn't around I think their top target might be Halliburton...fits their profile...could be a long term PG or great backup now...smart player, can shoot, set up guys, etc....ready to go.

I am curious if any other team would tell Dario he can start. I always heard it was very important to him to start. In the bubble of course he did what he needed to and really brought it, got in shape and knew he needed a good showing for FA. I think he likes Phx but I do wonder if he'd rather starts and if he would prefer we didn't match a 3 year deal at the MLE or something. That being said, I don't know of a team that would start him (though haven't given it much thought).

I think you take the best player that fits what you want to do...unless you are early in the rebuild, and just appreciate the depth. Denver has super depth, but at the same time, they deal with a lot of injuries, so they need it. Okongwu is raw so he probably wouldn't play much for a couple years unless we needed him to.

Same goes for the PGs other than Halliburton.

I hope we add the cheap depth with a pick. Sarver may be thinking along the same lines of your question. "Our rotation is good...I don't need to pay another rookie..lets move the pick" but we were killed with injuries this past year. A guy like Payne is really unproven. Saric is super inconsistent over his whole career....I guess I can say he was consistent in the bubble but that was 8 games. Oubre coming back from injury...can't seem to get over it...who knows if he will be as effective...he should be, but remains to be seen.

[bwgood77]

It's a tough call but I'd say if we jumped into the top 4 then Toppin would be my choice, just because of the ability to strech out more then Okgongwu. In theory we should have a pretty good defensive frontcourt on our hands with Bridges and Ayton. Toppin's ability to bring out opposing 4s will help Ayton a lot and his defensive weaknesses won't be as bad with the other 2 guys he plays with. Now Cam has done a great job in the bubble but it remains to be seen if he can put up a whole season worth of banging with bigger dudes. Toppin has been playing that spot his whole career and came away with tons of awards for his play.

I haven't seen others bring up is his age and how he's a lot more advanced then others in this class. We appear to be further along the path then any of us figured so getting players that are more ready to play right now is better then shooting our shot on some guy who needs years to be productive on a playoff team. Also, Toppin as a soph had guys going at him every night and still produced. He was playing in a "lesser" conference but still.

I'd also say that IF we actually did jump up that high then the first move JJ needs to make is call up Philly and see what it would take to grab Simmons. Philly can't be happy about how this year went and if they're gonna be talked out of him, this is the time as he's probably at his all time low in value. Him, at the 3/4 would look great with Cam, Ayton, and Booker. Paynes/Carter tag-team at point is fine since Simmons would be handling all the play making duties anyway. I think Bridges, Rubio, that (top 4) 1st and another future first might get it done if they were actually gonna make a move.

I was reading your post when you got to the Simmons part thinking "I'm not sure Simmons is a good fit with this..you really need 3 pt shooters around Ayton (hoping Ayton starts finishing strong inside)".....but then when you go to the Rubio, Bridges, pick and another pick for him, no way. I can't even think of a trade package I could come up with that they might consider. I think they liked Saric, so if somehow it could be had for Saric, Oubre and a pick, maybe, but then that leaves you with him and Rubio. Of course it makes sense for Rubio to be in the deal (and Saric really can't with another player I don't think..so it would have to be Rubio/Oubre/pic), but I really like Rubio and he is a real pro and had his best shooting season..works well with Booker..better than I ever would have anticipated. All those 3s Rubio doesn't hesitate on, Simmons would drive. He wouldn't be guarded out there. Booker would be doubled more. As good as Simmons is, I would probably not look into it....why mess with something that much when we FINALLY are looking really good?

I was thinking about putting Oubre in there but decided against it due to him being injured and up for another contract soon. Part of the reason Philly would do this is they are cap strapped with Embiid, Horford and imo the most overpaid player in the league, Harris locked in for years. They wouldn't really want to have to give Oubre more $$. Bridges gives them a homegrown, 2-way player that's cheap. As for us, Simmons would be taking Bridges spot so there's actually an increase in the defense being played and the play-making available. Obvious problems are yes, Simmons and Ayton on the floor at the same time makes for tougher spacing but with Cam, Book and the PG combo we'd have it'd be worth it to try. I'd start him at the 3/4 as well so that'd hopefully reduce the overall impact of his crappy shooting since he wouldn't a back court player anymore. The Paynes/Carter combo both can shoot and 1 of which would always be out there at PG to balance his shooting (or lack there of).

Simmons is probably a top-10 player in league right now. God knows what happens if he gets a shot. IDK if you play with the stock market but this would be like buying stocks back in March. You're getting him at the lowest value he's likely to ever have. I'm no fan of getting rid of the guys that have put us back on the map, but Simmons is likely 1st team all defense and one of, if not the best play makers/passers in the league. As to team morale and all of that. I would imagine that Booker would be there waiting at the airport to pick Ben up the second that that plane landed. That might be his best friend in the league.

I think I'm just too high on NBA players needing to have the ability to shoot to be as high on Simmons as others are. He is very hard to build a team around. No one will guard him. If we had Towns instead of Ayton along with Booker, Cam and Bridges at the other spots, it would make sense, and Ayton did show the ability to shoot the 3. I just think you lose more subtracting Bridges and Rubio (much less the picks) than you do adding Simmons.

[bwgood77]

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[bwgood77]

The above kind of goes to show how much you likely expect a top rookie in this class to contribute right now. Amare, who hasn't been able to play in the NBA for years is championship MVP, while Deni is getting a little over 20 minutes with 9 points, 4.7 reb and 2 assists per game (per tankathon). Of course a guy like Toppin, who is older, and was the leader of a top team in the country in college, is a lot more ready right now, but for the most part, most of these prospects are 19 or 20 and won't contribute too much early.

[Saberestar]

It's a tough call but I'd say if we jumped into the top 4 then Toppin would be my choice, just because of the ability to strech out more then Okgongwu. In theory we should have a pretty good defensive frontcourt on our hands with Bridges and Ayton. Toppin's ability to bring out opposing 4s will help Ayton a lot and his defensive weaknesses won't be as bad with the other 2 guys he plays with. Now Cam has done a great job in the bubble but it remains to be seen if he can put up a whole season worth of banging with bigger dudes. Toppin has been playing that spot his whole career and came away with tons of awards for his play.

I haven't seen others bring up is his age and how he's a lot more advanced then others in this class. We appear to be further along the path then any of us figured so getting players that are more ready to play right now is better then shooting our shot on some guy who needs years to be productive on a playoff team. Also, Toppin as a soph had guys going at him every night and still produced. He was playing in a "lesser" conference but still.

I'd also say that IF we actually did jump up that high then the first move JJ needs to make is call up Philly and see what it would take to grab Simmons. Philly can't be happy about how this year went and if they're gonna be talked out of him, this is the time as he's probably at his all time low in value. Him, at the 3/4 would look great with Cam, Ayton, and Booker. Paynes/Carter tag-team at point is fine since Simmons would be handling all the play making duties anyway. I think Bridges, Rubio, that (top 4) 1st and another future first might get it done if they were actually gonna make a move.

I was reading your post when you got to the Simmons part thinking "I'm not sure Simmons is a good fit with this..you really need 3 pt shooters around Ayton (hoping Ayton starts finishing strong inside)".....but then when you go to the Rubio, Bridges, pick and another pick for him, no way. I can't even think of a trade package I could come up with that they might consider. I think they liked Saric, so if somehow it could be had for Saric, Oubre and a pick, maybe, but then that leaves you with him and Rubio. Of course it makes sense for Rubio to be in the deal (and Saric really can't with another player I don't think..so it would have to be Rubio/Oubre/pic), but I really like Rubio and he is a real pro and had his best shooting season..works well with Booker..better than I ever would have anticipated. All those 3s Rubio doesn't hesitate on, Simmons would drive. He wouldn't be guarded out there. Booker would be doubled more. As good as Simmons is, I would probably not look into it....why mess with something that much when we FINALLY are looking really good?

I was thinking about putting Oubre in there but decided against it due to him being injured and up for another contract soon. Part of the reason Philly would do this is they are cap strapped with Embiid, Horford and imo the most overpaid player in the league, Harris locked in for years. They wouldn't really want to have to give Oubre more $$. Bridges gives them a homegrown, 2-way player that's cheap. As for us, Simmons would be taking Bridges spot so there's actually an increase in the defense being played and the play-making available. Obvious problems are yes, Simmons and Ayton on the floor at the same time makes for tougher spacing but with Cam, Book and the PG combo we'd have it'd be worth it to try. I'd start him at the 3/4 as well so that'd hopefully reduce the overall impact of his crappy shooting since he wouldn't a back court player anymore. The Paynes/Carter combo both can shoot and 1 of which would always be out there at PG to balance his shooting (or lack there of).

Simmons is probably a top-10 player in league right now. God knows what happens if he gets a shot. IDK if you play with the stock market but this would be like buying stocks back in March. You're getting him at the lowest value he's likely to ever have. I'm no fan of getting rid of the guys that have put us back on the map, but Simmons is likely 1st team all defense and one of, if not the best play makers/passers in the league. As to team morale and all of that. I would imagine that Booker would be there waiting at the airport to pick Ben up the second that that plane landed. That might be his best friend in the league.

Simmons is not a Top 10 player in the league, not even close IMO.

I wouldn't make that trade. Rubio, Bridges and a Top #4 (Toppin) for Simmons? That's too much.

[Slim Charless]

I was reading your post when you got to the Simmons part thinking "I'm not sure Simmons is a good fit with this..you really need 3 pt shooters around Ayton (hoping Ayton starts finishing strong inside)".....but then when you go to the Rubio, Bridges, pick and another pick for him, no way. I can't even think of a trade package I could come up with that they might consider. I think they liked Saric, so if somehow it could be had for Saric, Oubre and a pick, maybe, but then that leaves you with him and Rubio. Of course it makes sense for Rubio to be in the deal (and Saric really can't with another player I don't think..so it would have to be Rubio/Oubre/pic), but I really like Rubio and he is a real pro and had his best shooting season..works well with Booker..better than I ever would have anticipated. All those 3s Rubio doesn't hesitate on, Simmons would drive. He wouldn't be guarded out there. Booker would be doubled more. As good as Simmons is, I would probably not look into it....why mess with something that much when we FINALLY are looking really good?

I was thinking about putting Oubre in there but decided against it due to him being injured and up for another contract soon. Part of the reason Philly would do this is they are cap strapped with Embiid, Horford and imo the most overpaid player in the league, Harris locked in for years. They wouldn't really want to have to give Oubre more $$. Bridges gives them a homegrown, 2-way player that's cheap. As for us, Simmons would be taking Bridges spot so there's actually an increase in the defense being played and the play-making available. Obvious problems are yes, Simmons and Ayton on the floor at the same time makes for tougher spacing but with Cam, Book and the PG combo we'd have it'd be worth it to try. I'd start him at the 3/4 as well so that'd hopefully reduce the overall impact of his crappy shooting since he wouldn't a back court player anymore. The Paynes/Carter combo both can shoot and 1 of which would always be out there at PG to balance his shooting (or lack there of).

Simmons is probably a top-10 player in league right now. God knows what happens if he gets a shot. IDK if you play with the stock market but this would be like buying stocks back in March. You're getting him at the lowest value he's likely to ever have. I'm no fan of getting rid of the guys that have put us back on the map, but Simmons is likely 1st team all defense and one of, if not the best play makers/passers in the league. As to team morale and all of that. I would imagine that Booker would be there waiting at the airport to pick Ben up the second that that plane landed. That might be his best friend in the league.

Simmons is not a Top 10 player in the league, not even close IMO.

I wouldn't make that trade. Rubio, Bridges and a Top #4 (Toppin) for Simmons? That's too much.

This is all subjective but I'd bet that whenever the all-NBA teams come out that Simmons will be either 2nd or 3rd team. Depending on how ppl feel about CP3 getting the nod over him. I know that the Thunder would trade Paul for Simmons straight up if the Sixers asked them for it. This is also while being 1st team all-defense most likely. 3 weeks ago you would've likely jumped at this offer.

Once again, I'm not bashing our guys and wouldn't just give them up for any random player. I am saying that we can consolidate them into another (superstar) piece. After thinking about it I'd take off the XT future pick, but in this weak draft I'd give that 4th pick up along with Rubio-who would have to go to match salary. It'd suck to trade Bridges too but, like I said Simmons gives us what he offers on D and then some while increasing the playmaking available. Not that it matters for everyone who is in the PHX area but this trade would make us one of the league's most watched teams and increase our TV exposure-likely getting us more respect from refs as well since we'd be on national TV all the time.

[Slim Charless]

The above kind of goes to show how much you likely expect a top rookie in this class to contribute right now. Amare, who hasn't been able to play in the NBA for years is championship MVP, while Deni is a complementary player on his team getting a little over 20 minutes with 9 points, 4.7 reb and 2 assists per game. Of course a guy like Toppin, who is older, and was the leader of a top team in the country in college, is a lot more ready right now, but for the most part, most of these prospects are 19 or 20 and won't contribute too much early.

Yeah Toppin seems like a high-floor type of player. Which is what Monty/JJ seem to target. I hope he's our pick if we get the chance to grab him. We look to be a playoff team next year so we need dudes that can give us meaningful minutes sooner, rather then later.

[Pistol King]

The above kind of goes to show how much you likely expect a top rookie in this class to contribute right now. Amare, who hasn't been able to play in the NBA for years is championship MVP, while Deni is getting a little over 20 minutes with 9 points, 4.7 reb and 2 assists per game (per tankathon). Of course a guy like Toppin, who is older, and was the leader of a top team in the country in college, is a lot more ready right now, but for the most part, most of these prospects are 19 or 20 and won't contribute too much early.

Well, not exactly. Amare wasn't a major part of his team the entire year. It just happened that his best game was at the Final game, while Deni was a key player on his team the entire year in the Israeli league.

For comparison:

Deni's stats:

https://basket.co.il/player.asp?PlayerId=11166&lang=en

Amare's stats:

https://basket.co.il/player.asp?PlayerId=12371&lang=en

You can see that Deni has twice as good PER (aka "VAL"), and outperform Amare in almost every statistic category, including minutes, points, assists, rebounds, steals and blocks.

Amare won the MVP of that specific final game. Deni won the MVP of the league.

[bwgood77]

The above kind of goes to show how much you likely expect a top rookie in this class to contribute right now. Amare, who hasn't been able to play in the NBA for years is championship MVP, while Deni is getting a little over 20 minutes with 9 points, 4.7 reb and 2 assists per game (per tankathon). Of course a guy like Toppin, who is older, and was the leader of a top team in the country in college, is a lot more ready right now, but for the most part, most of these prospects are 19 or 20 and won't contribute too much early.

Well, not exactly. Amare wasn't a major part of his team the entire year. It just happened that his best game was at the Final game, while Deni was a key player on his team the entire year in the Israeli league.

For comparison:

Deni's stats:

https://basket.co.il/player.asp?PlayerId=11166&lang=en

Amare's stats:

https://basket.co.il/player.asp?PlayerId=12371&lang=en

You can see that Deni has twice as good PER (aka "VAL"), and outperform Amare in almost every statistic category, including minutes, points, assists, rebounds, steals and blocks.

Amare won the MVP of that specific final game. Deni won the MVP of the league.

Yeah, my bad on that. Tankathon is really off on Deni's stats. About the only thing they have right is his FT%. I wonder why that is so bad considering his %s are so good everywhere else.

[bwgood77]

So as I mentioned a few posts back, I like Toppin, but have Deni next, right there with him, so basically very close. Looking at those stats, it's interesting to compare the two...

Avdija 13.5 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.6 apg, 67% 2pt, 38.7% 3pt, 58% FT%, .9 blk, .8 stl
Toppin 20 ppg, 7.5, rpg, 2.2 apg, 69.8% 2pt, 39% 3pt, 70.2% FT%, 1.2 blk, 1 stl

Overall very close in #s. Definitely the two most intriguing prospects for me.

[Ghost of Kleine]

So as I mentioned a few posts back, I like Toppin, but have Deni next, right there with him, so basically very close. Looking at those stats, it's interesting to compare the two...

Avdija 13.5 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.6 apg, 67% 2pt, 38.7% 3pt, 58% FT%, .9 blk, .8 stl
Toppin 20 ppg, 7.5, rpg, 2.2 apg, 69.8% 2pt, 39% 3pt, 70.2% FT%, 1.2 blk, 1 stl

Overall very close in #s. Definitely the two most intriguing prospects for me.

But IF Deni actually fell to 10, Do you take him, and then look to move Oubre for additional assets and depth after seeing Bridgesand Cams' improvement? Or would they ( Deni/ Oubre) fit well alongside each other with Bridges moving to the 2, Deni to the 3, and Cam at the 4, With Oubre moving to the 2nd unit as a backup 4? And then of course Saric as a backup 5. Or do you look to move Oubre altogether, Then have Bridges at the 3, Cam at the 4, and Deni becomes our super 6th man ( 3/4) off the bench?

[bwgood77]

So as I mentioned a few posts back, I like Toppin, but have Deni next, right there with him, so basically very close. Looking at those stats, it's interesting to compare the two...

Avdija 13.5 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.6 apg, 67% 2pt, 38.7% 3pt, 58% FT%, .9 blk, .8 stl
Toppin 20 ppg, 7.5, rpg, 2.2 apg, 69.8% 2pt, 39% 3pt, 70.2% FT%, 1.2 blk, 1 stl

Overall very close in #s. Definitely the two most intriguing prospects for me.

But IF Deni actually fell to 10, Do you take him, and then look to move Oubre for additional assets and depth, Would they fit well alongside each other with Bridges moving to the 2/ Deni to the 3/ and Cam at the 4, With Oubre moving to the 2nd unit as a backup 4? And then of course Saric as a backup 5. Or do you look to move Oubre altogether, Then have Bridges at the 3, Cam at the 4, and Deni becomes our super 6th man ( 3/4) off the bench?

If Deni (or Toppin for that matter) slip to 10, I still keep the same starting unit and bring one of them off the bench. Lets say we bring back most of the contributors...I just keep the same bench..Payne, Carter, Oubre, Saric, Baynes....however if we don't bring back one or both of Baynes/Saric, he take their spot. Same with Oubre if he's traded, though that would depend on who he is traded for. If he is traded for a solid backup combo guard, you move Carter or Payne to 3rd string or if play small, could play 3 guards and 2 bigs. It's almost a certainty we will always have at least one injury and a good possibility we lose one of Baynes or Saric.

But even if they didn't play a lot as a rookie, Baynes would maybe only be around one more year, and they would take place of a 3rd frontcourt player.

I also don't know if they'd want to play Deni as more of a 3 or a 4. He's listed as a SF but he's more a Durant size so you easily could play him at the 4 too...he probably taller/longer than Cam. Actually they are about the same. They both actually only have about a 6'10 wingspan I believe. Toppin's is more like 7'2...so he probably would be able to cause more disruption in passing lanes and at the rim..

There is almost zero chance Deni (or Toppin for that matter) slip to 10.

So we can probably start talking more about other guys next week if we find out for sure we are at 10 or 11...like Aleksej...I guess Spencer Pearlman likes him more than Deni.

We sometimes agree and sometimes disagree on prospects. We both really liked Bridges, for example, but he loved Bagley...I didn't...and we had some disagreements about Cole...he had mentioned to me he thought he'd be good for the Suns one of the last times I spoke with him about his thoughts on who the Suns should take. I remember he also hated Trae..for the Knicks back when they took Knox. I remember Knicks board had a poll and no one wanted Trae even if he somehow dropped...I had to ask why, but he seemed to hold a lot of sway. They didn't think much of my thoughts that they could use a PG like Trae there with the PGs they had. They were high on Frank though..some still are.

I'm very glad they took Knox over Bridges though. He's probably not.

[Blonde]

The first round pre-lottery NBA draft big board nobody asked for. Probably a decent amount of Suns fit bias going into these rankings but here we go:

Hayes
Ball
————
Edwards
Okoro
Lewis
Haliburton
Toppin
Vassell
Cole
Deni
Wiseman
Okongwu
————
Riller
Maxey
Bolmaro
————
Green
Bane
Nesmith
Tillman
Saddiq Bey
Mannion
Reed
Patrick Williams
————
Hampton
Tre Jones
Cassius Winston
Pokusevski
Tyrell Terry
Malichi Flynn
Theo Madelon
————
Just Missed the cut:
Isaiah Stewart
Tyler Bey

[Ghost of Kleine]

So as I mentioned a few posts back, I like Toppin, but have Deni next, right there with him, so basically very close. Looking at those stats, it's interesting to compare the two...

Avdija 13.5 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.6 apg, 67% 2pt, 38.7% 3pt, 58% FT%, .9 blk, .8 stl
Toppin 20 ppg, 7.5, rpg, 2.2 apg, 69.8% 2pt, 39% 3pt, 70.2% FT%, 1.2 blk, 1 stl

Overall very close in #s. Definitely the two most intriguing prospects for me.

But IF Deni actually fell to 10, Do you take him, and then look to move Oubre for additional assets and depth, Would they fit well alongside each other with Bridges moving to the 2/ Deni to the 3/ and Cam at the 4, With Oubre moving to the 2nd unit as a backup 4? And then of course Saric as a backup 5. Or do you look to move Oubre altogether, Then have Bridges at the 3, Cam at the 4, and Deni becomes our super 6th man ( 3/4) off the bench?

If Deni (or Toppin for that matter) slip to 10, I still keep the same starting unit and bring one of them off the bench. Lets say we bring back most of the contributors...I just keep the same bench..Payne, Carter, Oubre, Saric, Baynes....however if we don't bring back one or both of Baynes/Saric, he take their spot. Same with Oubre if he's traded, though that would depend on who he is traded for. If he is traded for a solid backup combo guard, you move Carter or Payne to 3rd string or if play small, could play 3 guards and 2 bigs. It's almost a certainty we will always have at least one injury and a good possibility we lose one of Baynes or Saric.

But even if they didn't play a lot as a rookie, Baynes would maybe only be around one more year, and they would take place of a 3rd frontcourt player.

I also don't know if they'd want to play Deni as more of a 3 or a 4. He's listed as a SF but he's more a Durant size so you easily could play him at the 4 too...he probably taller/longer than Cam. Actually they are about the same. They both actually only have about a 6'10 wingspan I believe. Toppin's is more like 7'2...so he probably would be able to cause more disruption in passing lanes and at the rim..

There is almost zero chance Deni (or Toppin for that matter) slip to 10.

So we can probably start talking more about other guys next week if we find out for sure we are at 10 or 11...like Aleksej...I guess Spencer Pearlman likes him more than Deni.

We sometimes agree and sometimes disagree on prospects. We both really liked Bridges, for example, but he loved Bagley...I didn't...and we had some disagreements about Cole...he had mentioned to me he thought he'd be good for the Suns one of the last times I spoke with him about his thoughts on who the Suns should take. I remember he also hated Trae..for the Knicks back when they took Knox. I remember Knicks board had a poll and no one wanted Trae even if he somehow dropped...I had to ask why, but he seemed to hold a lot of sway. They didn't think much of my thoughts that they could use a PG like Trae there with the PGs they had. They were high on Frank though..some still are.

I'm very glad they took Knox over Bridges though. He's probably not.

Great post as always man!
Very solid points too. I guess Avdija intrigues me at the 3 more with Cam at the 4, With Denis' size and passing abilities as a tertiary facilitator at the 3, With Cam flashing out to the perimeter ( 3 point line) and Ayton fiving to the rim too, Whilst Booker would roam the perimeter and penetrate depending upon the situation. Also I agree that neither Toppin ( initial preference) or Avdija are likely to last to 10. I really like Poku, And can see why Spencer might be higher on him than Deni primarily due to his more advanced offensive skillset and better shooting metrics. IF he ( Poku) can fill out/ add strength, Then he'd be a bigger/ better version of what we hope for Deni to be? For my part, Ideally, I'd hope ( IF we stay at 10) that we could land Vassell or Okoro to help Bridges lock down the perimeter. And then add an additional pick to draft one of J. Smith/ Reed/ Poku/ Achiuwa or maybe Perry OR if we just add a backup center, Isiah Stewart, Oturu, Carey, Tillman or Nnaji to provide additional depth and defensive versatility at the backup 4/5. And maybe they can take one of Kaminskys' or Diallos' roster spots? At the very least giving us a substantial defensive upgrade to our bench/ roster.

As for Trae, Understandibly, Many people were put off by Traes diminutive stature and defensive concerns, As well as his lack of elite athleticism. But as we've found out, Everyone drastically underestimated Traes overall skillset/ impact! To be clear though, I think that there's a very similar prospect in this draft to Trae, That prospect being Tyrell Terry. Very similar in stature, Also an elite shooter with incredible range, and also very underrated as a potential playmaker. I believe that his defense will also somewhat improve, As he gets stronger from a professional training program and environment. I really like Terry and Merrill as the best perimeter scoring guards in the draft. But again, Ideally, We can land Vassell or Okoro at 10 for lockdown perimeter defense. And then one of Smith, Reed, Poku, or Achiuwa with a later first/ early 2nd.

Then grab a Bryn Forbes or Alec Burks for added bench scoring. Lastly, I'm also really relieved that we they took Knox over Bridges as well. Although Knox is an Arizona native. And I wonder sometimes IF he could have been better in a different system, And primarily in a more defensive role like a Harkless or as a poor man's Paul George? But still very grateful for Mikhail instead. Going to get really interesting post lottery I'm thinking.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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NBA draft lottery: Potential picks and odds for every team

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If the Warriors get the top pick, whom should they take? (1:33)

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2:48 PM MT

Jonathan Givony

Mike Schmitz

What's at stake for every team in the 2020 NBA draft lottery on Aug. 20? What should each team do if it jumps into the top four? And what if it stays put?

Our NBA draft experts break down the likely picks, odds and questions for every franchise pinning its hopes on pingpong balls, including the favorites for Anthony Edwards, LaMelo Ball and James Wiseman.

The lottery odds for almost every team are now locked in. The only thing left to be determined is whether the Memphis Grizzlies or Portland Trail Blazers will get the final slot, with the winner of this weekend's West play-in advancing to the postseason and the loser falling into the lottery.

Golden State Warriors | Average pick: 3.7

No. 1 pick odds: 14.0% | Top-three pick odds: 40.1%

If they land in the top four, they should pick ...

No. 1: LaMelo Ball

No. 2: Deni Avdija

No. 3: Anthony Edwards

No. 4: James Wiseman

Most likely pick: James Wiseman | C

In a draft lacking surefire star power at the top, the Warriors could have a tough decision on draft night if they land at No. 1.

Should they move back and draft a more ready-made contributor such as Deni Avdija, Isaac Okoro, Onyeka Okongwu, Tyrese Haliburton or Obi Toppin? Do they zero in on upside prospects LaMelo Ball, Anthony Edwards and James Wiseman?

I'd swing on Ball's incredible instincts and vision as a 6-foot-7 lead guard and pair him with elite shotmakers Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson, an athletic wing in Andrew Wiggins and an all-league small-ball defender in Draymond Green.

They should also consider Avdija given his versatility, experience, modern fit and basketball instincts. A Curry-Thompson-Wiggins-Avdija-Green small-ball lineup could be one of the most dynamic and versatile in the NBA.

But I could see the Warriors opting for Wiseman. The 7-1 marvel could reach his sky-high potential as a DeAndre Jordan-style finisher and defensive anchor with offensive upside should he land in an environment such as Golden State's. -- Schmitz

Cleveland Cavaliers | Average pick: 3.9

No. 1 pick odds: 14.0% | Top-three pick odds: 40.1%

If they land in the top four, they should pick ...

No. 1: Onyeka Okongwu

No. 2: Deni Avdija

No. 3: Isaac Okoro

No. 4: James Wiseman

Most likely pick: Onyeka Okongwu | F

After drafting guards Collin Sexton and Darius Garland in back-to-back years (as well as the promising Kevin Porter Jr. last year), Cleveland would probably be less interested than other teams in ball-dominant guards LaMelo Ball and Anthony Edwards.

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That might lead the Cavs in the direction of Okongwu or Okoro, depending on where their pick falls. Neither player needs plays called for him to make his presence felt, and either should complement Sexton and Garland.

And with Cleveland's hole on the depth chart at forward, Avdija is a compelling option, thanks to his defensive versatility and basketball instincts. -- Givony

Minnesota Timberwolves | Average Pick: 4.1

No. 1 pick odds: 14.0% | Top-three pick odds: 40.1%

If they land in the top four, they should pick ...

No. 1: LaMelo Ball

No. 2: Anthony Edwards

No. 3: Deni Avdija

No. 4: Isaac Okoro

Most likely pick: Anthony Edwards | G

With Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell locked in, president of basketball operations Gersson Rosas is in search of a third star to add to the skilled pair of 24-year-olds. This pick could come down to Ball or Edwards.

But a defensive trio of Ball, Russell and Towns would be one of the league's most vulnerable. On top of that, Russell is one of the NBA's only non-superstars to post a usage rate over 30 in three consecutive seasons -- he and Ball both need volume and freedom to be at their best.

That opens the door for Edwards -- a gifted 6-5, 225-pound scorer who could do a lot of damage getting downhill with the space Towns and Russell provide. Like Ball, he needs to dramatically improve his defensive intensity, but he at least has the tools to be an asset on that end, and he'd give the Timberwolves an athletic boost they're otherwise lacking.

Avdija's versatility would also make a lot of sense here. -- Schmitz

Georgia's Anthony Edwards and Auburn's Isaac Okoro are two wings out of the SEC who could go in the top five of the 2020 draft. John Reed/USA TodayAtlanta Hawks | Average pick: 4.4

No. 1 pick odds: 12.5% | Top-three pick odds: 36.6%

If they land in the top four, they should pick ...

No. 1: Deni Avdija

No. 2: Isaac Okoro

No. 3: Onyeka Okongwu

No. 4: James Wiseman

Most likely pick: Deni Avdija | G/F

With several building blocks in place, the Hawks probably will look to add a player who can contribute immediately and accelerate the franchise's move back to respectability.

A big guard such as Avdija -- who can defend multiple positions, play on or off the ball and brings considerable experience -- could be attractive here. His ability to play anywhere from 2-4 would make it easier to find minutes alongside existing building blocks Kevin Huerter, Cam Reddish and De'Andre Hunter. And as long as his improved perimeter shooting is sustainable, he could be a very good fit with point guard Trae Young. -- Givony

Detroit Pistons | Average pick: 5.0

No. 1 pick odds: 10.5% | Top-three pick odds: 31.6%

If they land in the top four, they should pick ...

No. 1: LaMelo Ball

No. 2: Anthony Edwards

No. 3: Onyeka Okongwu

No. 4: Tyrese Haliburton

Most likely pick: LaMelo Ball | G

While the Pistons have hit singles over the years with value adds Bruce Brown, Christian Wood and Sekou Doumbouya, Detroit is in dire need of a future star, especially in the backcourt.

The fifth pick isn't typically where you find franchise-changers. But in this case, it's not impossible that Ball falls to the Pistons, considering the teams expected to draft ahead of Detroit. The Pistons ranked 21st in offense and 28th in pace this season, making Ball an ideal choice, given he excels in transition and can generate offense from virtually anywhere on the floor.

As it happens, Ball's manager, Jermaine Jackson, is a Detroit native, played his college basketball and was an assistant coach at Detroit Mercy and had a short stint with the Pistons.

I'd expect Pistons senior adviser Ed Stefanski and recently hired general manager Troy Weaver to give do-it-all Iowa State guard Tyrese Haliburton and 6-6 French playmaker Killian Hayes long looks here as well. -- Schmitz

New York Knicks | Average pick: 5.5

No. 1 pick odds: 9.0% | Top-three pick odds: 27.6%

If they land in the top four, they should pick ...

No. 1: LaMelo Ball

No. 2: Anthony Edwards

No. 3: Deni Avdija

No. 4: Isaac Okoro

Most likely pick: Isaac Okoro | F

In the midst of a rebuilding process now headed by new management, the Knicks have more needs than are likely to be addressed with a single draft pick.

One school of thought would be to pick the player with the most star power, which would lead them in the direction of Ball or Edwards. Neither player is a great fit, but a franchise that hasn't made the playoffs in seven years can't afford to pass on talent in favor of fit.

But if Knicks do want a player who complements some of the promising young talent assembled by the previous regime -- namely RJ Barrett, Kevin Knox II and Mitchell Robinson -- the likes of Avdija, Okoro and, to a lesser extent, Okongwu could make plenty of sense. Okoro's defensive versatility, selfless style of play and considerable upside probably would make him fit well with Barrett in a supersized wing duo. -- Givony

Chicago Bulls | Average pick: 6.2

No. 1 pick odds: 7.5% | Top-three pick odds: 23.4%

If they land in the top four, they should pick ...

No. 1: LaMelo Ball

No. 2: Deni Avdija

No. 3: Tyrese Haliburton

No. 4: Isaac Okoro

Most likely pick: Tyrese Haliburton | G

A revamped Bulls front office, led by vice president of basketball operations Artūras Karnišovas, is in dire need of a pass-first guard to play next to electric scorers Coby White and Zach LaVine, and a wing who can mesh with bigs Wendell Carter Jr. and Lauri Markkanen.

Karnišovas, who helped draft Nikola Jokic in Denver, could fill both needs in one player by selecting Serbian-Israeli point forward Avdija. The 19-year-old Maccabi Tel Aviv product has the basketball instincts and court vision to operate as a big guard for stretches while also possessing the size and versatility at 6-9 to play either forward spot when off the ball.

If Avdija is off the board, Chicago could consider guards such as Tyrese Haliburton or Killian Hayes or a proven big man such as Obi Toppin, especially given the inconsistency from both Carter and Markkanen. -- Schmitz

Charlotte Hornets | Average pick: 7.0

No. 1 pick odds: 6.0% | Top-three pick odds: 19.0%

If they land in the top four, they should pick ...

No. 1: LaMelo Ball

No. 2: Anthony Edwards

No. 3: Deni Avdija

No. 4: Onyeka Okongwu

Most likely pick: Obi Toppin | F

2020 NBA draft

Get ready for LaMelo Ball, Anthony Edwards and the next crop of NBA talent.

• Top 100 draft rankings
• Team-by-team previews
• Scouting likely lottery picks
• Pelton's draft projections

The Hornets have been avoiding a full-blown rebuild for years in hopes of cobbling together a playoff team, which they haven't had since 2016. The results are glaring holes on the roster and very little star power.

Swinging for the fences to bring in Ball or Edwards would make sense if Charlotte has the opportunity, and this has to be considered the floor for a high-ceiling prospect such as Wiseman.

Short of that, drafting a versatile wing in Toppin -- who can score in a variety of ways and comes ready to play -- would make a lot of sense. He'd inject the frontcourt with plenty of athleticism, intensity and physical play. -- Givony

Washington Wizards | Average pick: 8.0

No. 1 pick odds: 4.5% | Top-three pick odds: 14.5%

If they land in the top four, they should pick ...

No. 1: LaMelo Ball

No. 2: Anthony Edwards

No. 3: Onyeka Okongwu

No. 4: James Wiseman

Most likely pick: Precious Achiuwa | F

Ranking last in defensive rating, the Wizards need a rim protector to slot next to scoring forward Rui Hachimura. Landing a shot-blocker such as Okongwu or Wiseman would be a dream for the Wizards should they end up in the top three.

Given the slim odds of jumping up to grab either player, however, GM Tommy Sheppard and his group probably will have to turn to the draft's next tier of bigs in Dayton's Toppin and Memphis' Achiuwa.

When he's fully engaged and embracing his role, Achiuwa is arguably the draft's most versatile defender, with the ability to check point guards on switches and protect the rim as a small-ball 5. He should also be able to pierce defenses as a Montrezl Harrell-like roller and driver on the other end.

If the Wizards don't focus on defense, Toppin could energize the team's fan base with his high-flying dunks and deep 3s, making him an excellent fit next to John Wall and Bradley Beal. -- Schmitz

Phoenix Suns | Average pick: 9.2

No. 1 pick odds: 3.0% | Top-three pick odds: 9.9%

If they land in the top four, they should pick ...

No. 1: LaMelo Ball

No. 2: Anthony Edwards

No. 3: Obi Toppin

No. 4: Isaac Okoro

Most likely pick: Killian Hayes | G

The Suns have exceeded expectations in a season highlighted by the improvement of cornerstones Devin Booker and Deandre Ayton and strong contributions from several role players.

While Ricky Rubio has proved to be a strong complement to Booker, he's about to turn 30. The Suns might look at 6-5 pick-and-roll guard Hayes. A versatile guard like Haliburton, who can play on or off the ball thanks to his size, strong perimeter shooting and basketball instincts, would also be a great fit. -- Givony

[bwgood77]

I haven't really looked into Anthony Edwards, but I am surprised there hasn't been much mention or talk of him considering,

a) he is pretty much a consensus top 1-3 guy...usually at the top or 2nd
b) it is pretty much a consensus are biggest need is a backup SG
c) there are a lot of people worried that Booker will leave us at some point, and then recent mention of him wearing the Lakers shirt in a press conference, for Kobe, possibly wanting to follow in his footsteps, etc

[Ghost of Kleine]

I haven't really looked into Anthony Edwards, but I am surprised there hasn't been much mention or talk of him considering,

a) he is pretty much a consensus top 1-3 guy...usually at the top or 2nd
b) it is pretty much a consensus are biggest need is a backup SG
c) there are a lot of people worried that Booker will leave us at some point, and then recent mention of him wearing the Lakers shirt in a press conference, for Kobe, possibly wanting to follow in his footsteps, etc

Yeah! Edwards should definitely be a consideration ( IF we should find ourselves in the Top 4. Otherwise I still would want to acquire a 2nd 2021 first round pick via Golden state ( Minne 2021 pick) or New York from some other potential lotto teams, That way we'd have a solid chance to move up into the top 5 of that draft for a potential star player. The ultimate dream of course being to land Jalen Green. But outside of the top 5 of that draft, We'd still have really solid potential star options in : Brandon Boston Jr, Terrence Clark, Scotty Lewis, Josh Christopher, Moses Moody? But the potential of losing Booker is another reason that I would like to add an additional pick to take a swing on a high upside prospect ( at a similar position) to help provide a modicum of insurance against that! All of these factors would have me considering using Oubre as a high value trade asset ( *IF we look to move on from him) to one of the above mentioned teams, for another player and a 2021 first. I'd absolutely target Orlando perhaps with Oubre and the 10th for maybe Fournier or Aminu? The 16th and their 2021 top 4 protected 2021 first? Or preferably to Golden state for the TPE ( cap space) and the Minnesota 2021 top 3 protected first? Then maybe use the added cap space for Jerami Grant or Jae Crowder and Alec Burks or Bryn Forbes.

[ATTL]

I haven't really looked into Anthony Edwards, but I am surprised there hasn't been much mention or talk of him considering,

a) he is pretty much a consensus top 1-3 guy...usually at the top or 2nd
b) it is pretty much a consensus are biggest need is a backup SG
c) there are a lot of people worried that Booker will leave us at some point, and then recent mention of him wearing the Lakers shirt in a press conference, for Kobe, possibly wanting to follow in his footsteps, etc

I'll consider him thursday after we win the lotto.

[thamadkant]

Regarding the Simmons comments...
I think he is an excellent two way player and would be ideal as combo forward on the Suns.

But with Rubio's increased ability and willingness to shoot the 3pt... I seriously think he is better as main PG on the Suns.

What we saw in the bubble is what the Suns need to work on.
I would actually consider trading the draft pick for a future pick... Purely because I don't see any players who would help the Suns reach the playoffs in the draft... High risk players or players playing position that Suns do not need.