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The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2

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Assuming this is the last major addition, are you more excited than you were last offseason?

Yes
29
64%
No
1
2%
About the same
15
33%
 
Total votes: 45

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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1001 » by thamadkant » Wed Jul 3, 2024 10:36 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Crives wrote:If Dunn magically develops a shot by end of season

PG: Book / Monte
SG: Allen / Beal / Okogie
SF: Dunn / Oneal
PF: KD / Bol
C: Nurk / Plum / Oso

This is probably the most talented suns roster we have ever had. Just need Bud to make it work.. really hope Beal takes a ginobli 6th man role, mostly to reduce minutes ad stay healthier throughout the season.


He's already working on things man! :D
Read on Twitter


He's not missing much if any shots in this clip and his mechanics and form look pretty clean too! I keep telling people his shot is gonna improve. :wink:


Nah, those shots are no good.

I hit those shots in the playground too, everyone looks good without pressure.

What he needs is to shoot 2,000 shots a day with a broom extended up from the corners and elbows. Catch and shoot as quick as possible... tired preferably. Train shots he will actually shoot in game. Shoot them up till it is second nature.
None of these off the dribble contested shots against nobodies. He's practising shots that he will not take. It's a waste.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1002 » by thamadkant » Wed Jul 3, 2024 10:45 am

carey wrote:
garrick wrote:Jumpers in a gym is meaningless.

Ben Simmons always puts out workout vids of him nailing 3's in practice but this never translates to better shooting during games.

I'm dying to know how you envision players getting better at shooting? Is it your assertion you can only improve during games? I think drills are the #1 way you improve at shooting. If it were only playing time people wouldn't really improve that much. Especially rookies that won't get much time to start.


If you watch professional teams practice, you will see the catch and shoot players practice their shots at spots they will shoot it in game.

Ryan Dunn shooting off dribble contested jump shots from 3pt arc is a dream for the defense.
He IS Not a shooter or a scorer like that.

He is basically wasting time. In the NBA he will get open shots as catch and shoot at the corners and elbows. He needs to practice those, tired and with someone blocking his view. Every day.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1003 » by sunsbg » Wed Jul 3, 2024 11:04 am

Ever since I watched below video I wanted to see more like it from professional players of JO calibre and see how they shoot with no pressure in practice. Okogie probably hitting 80% on those.

The player in the video was not always known as a great shooter, just a good one. Kings considered him the best shooter on the team last year. Hard work in practice pays off. Hope that's the case with Dunn too.

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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1004 » by Saberestar » Wed Jul 3, 2024 12:01 pm

thamadkant wrote:
carey wrote:
garrick wrote:Jumpers in a gym is meaningless.

Ben Simmons always puts out workout vids of him nailing 3's in practice but this never translates to better shooting during games.

I'm dying to know how you envision players getting better at shooting? Is it your assertion you can only improve during games? I think drills are the #1 way you improve at shooting. If it were only playing time people wouldn't really improve that much. Especially rookies that won't get much time to start.


If you watch professional teams practice, you will see the catch and shoot players practice their shots at spots they will shoot it in game.

Ryan Dunn shooting off dribble contested jump shots from 3pt arc is a dream for the defense.
He IS Not a shooter or a scorer like that.

He is basically wasting time. In the NBA he will get open shots as catch and shoot at the corners and elbows. He needs to practice those, tired and with someone blocking his view. Every day.

Do you want to limit his ceiling already? He is a FRP and 21 years old.

He has multiple trainers who will advise him on how to improve every type of shot. Yeah, he will practice those open shots from the corner, no doubt about it, but he isn't 35 years old PJ Tucker. He needs to work on every type of shot and how to create his own shot.

Kevin O'Connor had him #16 in his big board. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being one of the best players out of this draft. I think there's not big difference between him and Risacher.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1005 » by Mulhollanddrive » Wed Jul 3, 2024 12:29 pm

Watched some Morris highlights super excited for him running the bench.

Put Morris and Plumlee back together, add shooters and scorers like Allen and Bol to take advantage of passing, get Durant some easy looks.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1006 » by King4Day » Wed Jul 3, 2024 1:37 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
King4Day wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
That's exactly what they're hoping. If they extend those dudes then they have to wait to trade them. They're leaving it open for both guys in case we want 1 (or both) for KD/Book, along with our picks back.


I just don't see Houston moving him. I have to imagine they want to pair KD with Sengun. Giving us their other younger players who they're giving up on, along with our picks back.

Part of me wants to root against us early so we are closer to this reality (of trading KD), however, there's no sure thing they will really want to give us Sengun (which is the only way I consider this type of trade).
Hell, I'd almost do a straight up swap. Nevermind our picks at this point.


You way over value Sengun. Why hasn't Houston signed him to a new deal yet? They have the money and I imagine you think he's a top 25 or so asset in the league. Seems pretty cut and dry....


Probably. I think he's the best asset Houston has at least.
I do find it surprising they aren't extending him otherwise. Maybe I undervalue Mobley but if the Cavs max him out, I'm not sure he's that much better than Sengun. We'll see.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1007 » by KdoubleDees23 » Wed Jul 3, 2024 1:44 pm

Sengun, Amen Thompson, Brooks, and 2 first round picks for Nurkic and KD.
Allen, Litte for Tyus Jones

I do that in a heart beat.

Tyus Jones, Morris
Booker, Beal
Brooks, O'Neale
Thompson, Bol Bol
Sengun , Plumlee
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1008 » by BobbieL » Wed Jul 3, 2024 1:52 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Our roster is essentially the same

The hope is it was coaching, Vogel couldn't run an offense and didn't have defensive talent to maximise his scheme

We still don't have a PG for the majority of the game, it's inevitable Morris will get a run at starter at some stage to see how it looks


This offseason isn't finished yet but we have already make great adjustments.

1) Better coaching. Mike Budenholzer.
2) Better backup C. Mason Plumlee.
3) Adding a PG with great AST/OT numbers. Monte Morris.
4) Adding an athletic defensive wing. Ryan Dunn.
5) Retain Royce O'Neal and Bol Bol.


Even if I still think they should be looking into moving on from Durant - -I can see that on paper - this years roster is better than last year for the reasons you mention above - all of the above. Is that enough to still be a six seed or higher. Today, I am not sure because Durant and Book played a lot of games last year. But maybe a few more games from Beal combined with the above - I think they are better on paper than last year.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1009 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Jul 3, 2024 1:57 pm

I like Dunn as a prospect. Hopefully he can tighten his handles, get comfortable with his jumper, continue to build on his great frame, and stay healthy.

But none of that will happen this season. Best we can expect is some highlight blocks in garbage time.

I'm glad to have a solid prospect on the roster, though.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1010 » by BobbieL » Wed Jul 3, 2024 2:00 pm

KdoubleDees23 wrote:Sengun, Amen Thompson, Brooks, and 2 first round picks for Nurkic and KD.
Allen, Litte for Tyus Jones

I do that in a heart beat.

Tyus Jones, Morris
Booker, Beal
Brooks, O'Neale
Thompson, Bol Bol
Sengun , Plumlee


I am not sure Sengun Thomspn and Brooks gets it done for Durant

I think it would have to be Brooks, Adams, Jeff Green plus a couple players on rookie contracts for Durant - and picks
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1011 » by Slim Charless » Wed Jul 3, 2024 2:17 pm

King4Day wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
King4Day wrote:
I just don't see Houston moving him. I have to imagine they want to pair KD with Sengun. Giving us their other younger players who they're giving up on, along with our picks back.

Part of me wants to root against us early so we are closer to this reality (of trading KD), however, there's no sure thing they will really want to give us Sengun (which is the only way I consider this type of trade).
Hell, I'd almost do a straight up swap. Nevermind our picks at this point.


You way over value Sengun. Why hasn't Houston signed him to a new deal yet? They have the money and I imagine you think he's a top 25 or so asset in the league. Seems pretty cut and dry....


Probably. I think he's the best asset Houston has at least.
I do find it surprising they aren't extending him otherwise. Maybe I undervalue Mobley but if the Cavs max him out, I'm not sure he's that much better than Sengun. We'll see.


I'll help you: they wanna trade him.

He's good but he's not Joker 2.0 as you apparently think. You have to run your offense through him and they were better when that didn't happen. He's not worth more than KD. He's just not.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1012 » by BobbieL » Wed Jul 3, 2024 2:25 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
King4Day wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
You way over value Sengun. Why hasn't Houston signed him to a new deal yet? They have the money and I imagine you think he's a top 25 or so asset in the league. Seems pretty cut and dry....


Probably. I think he's the best asset Houston has at least.
I do find it surprising they aren't extending him otherwise. Maybe I undervalue Mobley but if the Cavs max him out, I'm not sure he's that much better than Sengun. We'll see.


I'll help you: they wanna trade him.

He's good but he's not Joker 2.0 as you apparently think. You have to run your offense through him and they were better when that didn't happen. He's not worth more than KD. He's just not.


The Suns would be selling a bit low on Durant -- -but that is because they made such a stupid trade, well Ishbia did. But trading Durant isn't just about getting equal value now. It is about understanding that by trading him - you start the rebuild, get compliant with the CBA, get draft picks back to start building up.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1013 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Jul 3, 2024 2:27 pm

garrick wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
garrick wrote:Jumpers in a gym is meaningless.

Ben Simmons always puts out workout vids of him nailing 3's in practice but this never translates to better shooting during games.


In these videos man, what you're looking for as indicators towards improvement is form, mechanics, fluidity etc. When you watch his shooting, it's not like he's clanking shots or even banking it off the backboard either. The arch is great, the form is solid, heck, his shots are so clean that he's not even hitting the rim. They're all net.

Also it's not like he's just standing there in an empty gym and hoisting up shots. He's being guarded and shooting I'm the flow of the game. Whether in an nba game context or in a practice gym, getting good shots in motion or on the move or off picks, etc are important for muscle memory development and repetition based improvements..

I mean heck man. This is how the nba players work on there games after all. Even Booker, Beal and Durant themselves get runs in for game development. Are those contextually meaningless too? Pattern recognition here my friend. :D


I would just temper your excitement just because he can make 3's during scrimmages.

My point is even the worst NBA player can hit 3's in non game situations so I won't have much expectation from Dunn until we see it happen during games.

If he can hit a decent clip in G league games I would take that as a metric that he has hope as a shooter, until then I am not expecting much.


I get and respect what you're saying man! And large scale history samples would of course legitimatize yours and Fishis' and others clear skepticism around any potential offensive improvement from Dunn so quickly. But again, for my part, and acknowledging each individuals own lens of seeing things regarding Dunn, for my part I'm specifically looking for two distinct contributory factors to potential improvements here:

1- The player's mechanics, form, and overall motion ( whether during movement or standing still).

2- The player in questions awareness and acceptance of their core issues first and then the actual willingness/ overall level of determination they show to put in significant time to correct those specific issues that my be core contributory inhibitors to their shooting improvements.

For my part, and not downplaying anyone's skepticism here, I see both of those two conditions being met reasonably so far. Now any potential excitement exhibited on my part is honestly based predominantly upon my interests in Dunns' elite defensive abilities he'll being to our team. And also more importantly, the overall defensive pressures he'll absorb and take off the shoulders of Durant and our other key offensive players.

In this context, he'll spare them the unnecessary exhaustion of trying to excel (through intense efforts) on both ends of the floor and allow them to focus their efforts more purposefully on the offensive end, strengthening their dominance on that side as they'll be able to now play to their strengths more often. The offensive flashes have been/ will always be supplementally encouraging aspects for me. But any excitement will be rooted in his defensive contributions man. :D
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1014 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Jul 3, 2024 2:30 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:I like Dunn as a prospect. Hopefully he can tighten his handles, get comfortable with his jumper, continue to build on his great frame, and stay healthy.

But none of that will happen this season. Best we can expect is some highlight blocks in garbage time.

I'm glad to have a solid prospect on the roster, though.


A very fair and reasonable assessment this early on and for the contextual value of a pick at the end of the first round. :D
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1015 » by spanishninja » Wed Jul 3, 2024 3:05 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Crives wrote:If Dunn magically develops a shot by end of season

PG: Book / Monte
SG: Allen / Beal / Okogie
SF: Dunn / Oneal
PF: KD / Bol
C: Nurk / Plum / Oso

This is probably the most talented suns roster we have ever had. Just need Bud to make it work.. really hope Beal takes a ginobli 6th man role, mostly to reduce minutes ad stay healthier throughout the season.


He's already working on things man! :D
Read on Twitter


He's not missing much if any shots in this clip and his mechanics and form look pretty clean too! I keep telling people his shot is gonna improve. :wink:



yeah, shot looks mechanically sound to me. doesn't have the hitch like Mikal had when he first came into the league.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1016 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Jul 3, 2024 3:08 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1017 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Jul 3, 2024 3:20 pm

Iceman36 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Crives wrote:If Dunn magically develops a shot by end of season

PG: Book / Monte
SG: Allen / Beal / Okogie
SF: Dunn / Oneal
PF: KD / Bol
C: Nurk / Plum / Oso

This is probably the most talented suns roster we have ever had. Just need Bud to make it work.. really hope Beal takes a ginobli 6th man role, mostly to reduce minutes ad stay healthier throughout the season.


He's already working on things man! :D
Read on Twitter


He's not missing much if any shots in this clip and his mechanics and form look pretty clean too! I keep telling people his shot is gonna improve. :wink:


His shooting form looks quite well. Why should he not improve? Im hopeful, too.


For sure man!
That's what I've been trying to emphasize here mostly though to little avail. And as long as people can accept that Dunns' foundational value will be heavily predicated on his already established elite defense, and any auxiliary value coming from offensive improvements will be a scalable bonus, everyone will be fine. It's when assessing judgment towards Ryan Dunn being a completely finished product at only 21 years old with his ceiling somehow capped as a very limited one-way player that confuses me due to lack of overall objectivity in those assessments.

But overall, it's just human nature to view things through a somewhat limited lens and formulate rapid snap judgments to specific circumstances because we all live in a society of instant gratification and rapid results, otherwise lacking patience to envision contextual evolution. So If something isn't somehow immediately present and available for reflection, then it's rapidly dismissed without any further consideration because no one has the time to really see how something can play out in a different contextual variance. :D
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1018 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Jul 3, 2024 3:26 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Right arm is a bit off to me, elbow angle but I don't know much


You're absolutely right man. That, and occasionally in watching significant tape, you'll see that sometimes his legs flare out slightly with his upper body falling back a bit on his shot. typical minor habitual shooting hitches that can be easily corrected with actual repetition and muscle memory application thanks to the premise of neuroplasticity. He's definitely a work in progress, but the good news is that his foundational shooting tools are solid and consistent. His arch, his overall mechanics, his movement repetition. All good things he can build off of. :D
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1019 » by Fo-Real » Wed Jul 3, 2024 3:27 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:I shoot around 50% from FT like Dunn, maybe I just need a nice video to make the team.


Now work on your post quality!! :lol:



Kidding :lol: ...... or am I? :o
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1020 » by RaisingArizona » Wed Jul 3, 2024 3:28 pm

On paper, this team looks about the same as last year. 6-10 seed.
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