The TJ Warren Thread!

[bwgood77]

Career numbers from non-bigs NBA players who averaged at least: 20MPG / over .500 2P% with more than 9 attempts per game (since 2000-01)

Nice list.

[bwgood77]

I'd also say he's a weak defender, mediocre rebounder, poor court vision (black hole), and extremely poor outside shooter (in fact his form changes dramatically). From the eye test his bball iq is somewhat suspect as well.

He is a good midrange offensive player, as well as 5-7ft away from the hoop. No high flyer, but he can contort a high percentage of shots in, one on one.

A player who can do 1, maybe 2 things adaquately on up is not what I'd call a very good player. He's a nice player, good, but that's about it.

Someone mentioned only the warriors being a team he wouldn't start for....I'd say most upper end teams in the league he would start for. Even teams like the wolves n okc, 2ND rate teams, he wouldn't. Then theres of course the warriors, cavs, spurs n rockets, no start there. Just in the minute I have to post this, sure there's more.

Point being we have phoenix suns beaming yellow colored glasses when it comes to our players sometimes, especially someone we drafted.

Interesting analysis. We should trade him.

Obviously there's a lot of sarcasm here, but for the right deal, I'd sell him high right now.

Your strategy doesn't make much sense:

I'd also say he's a weak defender, mediocre rebounder, poor court vision (black hole), and extremely poor outside shooter (in fact his form changes dramatically). From the eye test his bball iq is somewhat suspect as well.

I'd sell him high right now.

[hollywood6964]

I'd also say he's a weak defender, mediocre rebounder, poor court vision (black hole), and extremely poor outside shooter (in fact his form changes dramatically). From the eye test his bball iq is somewhat suspect as well.

He is a good midrange offensive player, as well as 5-7ft away from the hoop. No high flyer, but he can contort a high percentage of shots in, one on one.

A player who can do 1, maybe 2 things adaquately on up is not what I'd call a very good player. He's a nice player, good, but that's about it.

Someone mentioned only the warriors being a team he wouldn't start for....I'd say most upper end teams in the league he would start for. Even teams like the wolves n okc, 2ND rate teams, he wouldn't. Then theres of course the warriors, cavs, spurs n rockets, no start there. Just in the minute I have to post this, sure there's more.

Point being we have phoenix suns beaming yellow colored glasses when it comes to our players sometimes, especially someone we drafted.

TJ didn't even start on his HS team...and became a McD AA. Also didn't start off as a starter at NCSU and became ACC POY. I wouldn't worry about TJ improving his game

I still think he has some more potential left in him. I wouldn't mind trading him now though, since he has his highest perceived value since entering the league. You might be able to fleece somebody. But I wouldn't give him away, or lateral move him, so to speak.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a fine player, but on a potential championship team, he'd probably be a 6th or maybe even 7th man on a really high end club.

[hollywood6964]

Interesting analysis. We should trade him.

Obviously there's a lot of sarcasm here, but for the right deal, I'd sell him high right now.

Your strategy doesn't make much sense:

I'd also say he's a weak defender, mediocre rebounder, poor court vision (black hole), and extremely poor outside shooter (in fact his form changes dramatically). From the eye test his bball iq is somewhat suspect as well.

I'd sell him high right now.

It's your retort that doesn't make sense.

Just because I stated what you quoted, (amongst other things that point toward his positive aspects), doesn't remotely suggest that is what is perception amongst some gms n owners is right now.

Hell, somebody on this board just had the gall of stating that Only gsw, n Maybe the Celtics he would not find a starting position. There's probably a fair % of ppl like that out there, and it wouldn't be the first time someone overvalued a player, traded for him, n realized 6 months later they had egg on their face.

[bwgood77]

:P

Obviously there's a lot of sarcasm here, but for the right deal, I'd sell him high right now.

Your strategy doesn't make much sense:

I'd also say he's a weak defender, mediocre rebounder, poor court vision (black hole), and extremely poor outside shooter (in fact his form changes dramatically). From the eye test his bball iq is somewhat suspect as well.

I'd sell him high right now.

It's your retort that doesn't make sense.

Just because I stated what you quoted, (amongst other things that point toward his positive aspects), doesn't remotely suggest that is what is perception amongst some gms n owners is right now.

Hell, somebody on this board just had the gall of stating that Only gsw, n Maybe the Celtics he would not find a starting position. There's probably a fair % of ppl like that out there, and it wouldn't be the first time someone overvalued a player, traded for him, n realized 6 months later they had egg on their face.

My retort doesn't make sense? It was just quoting two of your comments that didn't make sense together, so I guess in that respect, you are right. So you don't think nba pro scouts see what you see and that some probably value him highly?

I don't know how many teams he would start for but obviously not a lot of them considering they have quality starting small forwards are want elite 3 pt shooters. I don't think he has a ton of value around the league though I think he does add value to our team right now and makes them better than without him. We don't have many great scorers on our team, so he adds something we desperately need. Sure it would be great if he didn't have the weaknesses he has, and if those weaknesses continue, he'd make a killer sixth man if we ever get a bunch of great two way players with range to start. There is likely little to zero chance he is traded in the near future, and can't be traded this year, so it's probably a moot discussion anyway.

[Revived]

I used to think Warren was overrated by Suns fans but he’s changed my mind this year.

I really like him and hope we keep him. But let’s make one thing clear...barring Chip Engelland coming here, TJ Warren isn’t gonna ever become even an above average 3pt shooter. He is improving and getting better but his 3pt shooting just won’t ever get there.

[hollywood6964]

:P

Your strategy doesn't make much sense:

It's your retort that doesn't make sense.

Just because I stated what you quoted, (amongst other things that point toward his positive aspects), doesn't remotely suggest that is what is perception amongst some gms n owners is right now.

Hell, somebody on this board just had the gall of stating that Only gsw, n Maybe the Celtics he would not find a starting position. There's probably a fair % of ppl like that out there, and it wouldn't be the first time someone overvalued a player, traded for him, n realized 6 months later they had egg on their face.

My retort doesn't make sense? It was just quoting two of your comments that didn't make sense together, so I guess in that respect, you are right. So you don't think nba pro scouts see what you see and that some probably value him highly?

I don't know how many teams he would start for but obviously not a lot of them considering they have quality starting small forwards are want elite 3 pt shooters. I don't think he has a ton of value around the league though I think he does add value to our team right now and makes them better than without him. We don't have many great scorers on our team, so he adds something we desperately need. Sure it would be great if he didn't have the weaknesses he has, and if those weaknesses continue, he'd make a killer sixth man if we ever get a bunch of great two way players with range to start. There is likely little to zero chance he is traded in the near future, and can't be traded this year, so it's probably a moot discussion anyway.

Yes, I don't think it did, as I already explained why.

As for the second question, throughout the thread I already explained why I think selling high may be an option. Not definite, but may be.

That was more of an aside than anything. I stand by my assessment of Warren. If anyone doesn't like it, they can f**k themselves, haha.

Your assessment of Warren seems like you're on the same page on how good he currently is. About the low value he has; I'd tend to agree. When I said sell high, (and the explanation in two or the posts about it, n I don't know why I'm saying it again), is that there's is sometimes someone who will overvalue based on numbers n age n give away a bit of the farm for a player not worth it. That's what I mean by selling high, which should be self explanatory.

[bwgood77]

:P
It's your retort that doesn't make sense.

Just because I stated what you quoted, (amongst other things that point toward his positive aspects), doesn't remotely suggest that is what is perception amongst some gms n owners is right now.

Hell, somebody on this board just had the gall of stating that Only gsw, n Maybe the Celtics he would not find a starting position. There's probably a fair % of ppl like that out there, and it wouldn't be the first time someone overvalued a player, traded for him, n realized 6 months later they had egg on their face.

My retort doesn't make sense? It was just quoting two of your comments that didn't make sense together, so I guess in that respect, you are right. So you don't think nba pro scouts see what you see and that some probably value him highly?

I don't know how many teams he would start for but obviously not a lot of them considering they have quality starting small forwards are want elite 3 pt shooters. I don't think he has a ton of value around the league though I think he does add value to our team right now and makes them better than without him. We don't have many great scorers on our team, so he adds something we desperately need. Sure it would be great if he didn't have the weaknesses he has, and if those weaknesses continue, he'd make a killer sixth man if we ever get a bunch of great two way players with range to start. There is likely little to zero chance he is traded in the near future, and can't be traded this year, so it's probably a moot discussion anyway.

Yes, I don't think it did, as I already explained why.

As for the second question, throughout the thread I already explained why I think selling high may be an option. Not definite, but may be.

That was more of an aside than anything. I stand by my assessment of Warren. If anyone doesn't like it, they can f**k themselves, haha.

Your assessment of Warren seems like you're on the same page on how good he currently is. About the low value he has; I'd tend to agree. When I said sell high, (and the explanation in two or the posts about it, n I don't know why I'm saying it again), is that there's is sometimes someone who will overvalue based on numbers n age n give away a bit of the farm for a player not worth it. That's what I mean by selling high, which should be self explanatory.

Well yes, if you think someone would give up the farm for TJ, like bad teams giving up nice players and unprotected picks, sure, I'd consider it. But we can't trade him this year anyway.

[Damkac]

Warren is a terrible player. The only thing he is doing well is scoring points. In a game where you have to score more points than the other team it isn't very usefull skill.
He is bad rebounder. This season averages only 5.5 rebounds per game. Even such terrible forwards as Paul George and Jimmy Butler can get so many rebounds (they also play 4 minutes longer than Warren but it doesn't change much). Look at Kevin Durant - elite, near 7 foot forward who averages 7 rebounds. That massive 1.5 rebound/game difference shows you how much Warren hurts the team with his awful rebounding.
And it is not even the worst thing about TJ. His assists number is just dreadful. You can't have good offense with player who can't get assists. The fact that Warren moves good without the ball and finishes so well around the rim and run fastbreaks and his teammates gets tons of assists by passing the ball to him don't change anything.

I agree Suns should trade him ASAP. But of course only for the right offer. Late 2nd seems to me like a good price for Warren.

[Saberestar]

T.J. Warren isn't into sexy points. He doesn't launch 3-point shots, rattle the rim with one-handed dunks or, really, do anything that might draw a single ooh or ahh from the crowd.

His game is quiet. Floaters, body control, drawing contact and making off-balance layups. Even when he's scoring 20 points a game it's easy to overlook his contributions because there's nothing dramatic about them.

But if there’s a single takeaway from the Suns’ 108-100 victory over the Denver Nuggets Friday at the Pepsi Center – the win snapped Phoenix’s three-game losing streak - it’s that in his own way, Warren is almost as important to Phoenix’s offense as Devin Booker.

Warren, who had missed two straight games with lower back soreness, scored 25 points on 11 of 17 shooting and made the play of the night, a 4-foot turnaround jumper to give the Suns an eight-point lead with 2:41 left.

What’s so special about a 4-foot jumper?
It was vintage Warren, using his basketball IQ to get the Suns an important basket.

Denver doubled Booker just beyond the 3-point line and Warren was supposed to shake toward half court. Instead, he read the defense, cut along the baseline and Booker fed him for the bucket, which took all the starch out of the Nuggets after they had cut a 15-point fourth-quarter lead to four.

“T.J. always cuts when he’s not supposed to but he ends up being open,” said Booker, who had 30 points on 11 of 23 shooting to go along with five rebounds and five assists. "He cut back door, his man lost him and he made that quick floater he usually makes."

Warren said his decision to go where he wasn’t supposed to was completely instinctual.

“It wasn’t anything drawn up,” he said. “If you want to sum up how I play that’s really a perfect (example). It’s just a feel. I just try to find an open shot, and that’s usually one of my sweet spots in that short corner area. That’s really where I’m most effective.”

Warren’s return also allowed interim coach Jay Triano to stagger the minutes of his two best offensive players and keep them both well rested. One example: Booker, who played 34 minutes, went to the bench with 3:42 left in the first quarter and the Suns trailing 21-14. Warren scored six points in the final 3:29 and Denver’s lead was only two at the end of the quarter.

“I know when he’s one the court it’s a big help to me, having an alternate scorer the defense has to pay attention to,” Booker said.

“It was a great play,” Triano said. “That’s one of the things T.J. does so well. he just moves off the ball. A great play.”

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2018/01/19/game-day-phoenix-suns-denver-nuggets-kemba-walker/1048388001/

[jcsunsfan]

T.J. Warren isn't into sexy points. He doesn't launch 3-point shots, rattle the rim with one-handed dunks or, really, do anything that might draw a single ooh or ahh from the crowd.

His game is quiet. Floaters, body control, drawing contact and making off-balance layups. Even when he's scoring 20 points a game it's easy to overlook his contributions because there's nothing dramatic about them.

But if there’s a single takeaway from the Suns’ 108-100 victory over the Denver Nuggets Friday at the Pepsi Center – the win snapped Phoenix’s three-game losing streak - it’s that in his own way, Warren is almost as important to Phoenix’s offense as Devin Booker.

Warren, who had missed two straight games with lower back soreness, scored 25 points on 11 of 17 shooting and made the play of the night, a 4-foot turnaround jumper to give the Suns an eight-point lead with 2:41 left.

What’s so special about a 4-foot jumper?
It was vintage Warren, using his basketball IQ to get the Suns an important basket.

Denver doubled Booker just beyond the 3-point line and Warren was supposed to shake toward half court. Instead, he read the defense, cut along the baseline and Booker fed him for the bucket, which took all the starch out of the Nuggets after they had cut a 15-point fourth-quarter lead to four.

“T.J. always cuts when he’s not supposed to but he ends up being open,” said Booker, who had 30 points on 11 of 23 shooting to go along with five rebounds and five assists. "He cut back door, his man lost him and he made that quick floater he usually makes."

Warren said his decision to go where he wasn’t supposed to was completely instinctual.

“It wasn’t anything drawn up,” he said. “If you want to sum up how I play that’s really a perfect (example). It’s just a feel. I just try to find an open shot, and that’s usually one of my sweet spots in that short corner area. That’s really where I’m most effective.”

Warren’s return also allowed interim coach Jay Triano to stagger the minutes of his two best offensive players and keep them both well rested. One example: Booker, who played 34 minutes, went to the bench with 3:42 left in the first quarter and the Suns trailing 21-14. Warren scored six points in the final 3:29 and Denver’s lead was only two at the end of the quarter.

“I know when he’s one the court it’s a big help to me, having an alternate scorer the defense has to pay attention to,” Booker said.

“It was a great play,” Triano said. “That’s one of the things T.J. does so well. he just moves off the ball. A great play.”

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2018/01/19/game-day-phoenix-suns-denver-nuggets-kemba-walker/1048388001/

Basketball is jazz. You have a general plan but success is about instinct and improvisation. Intuitively responding to one another on the court. It’s one of the reasons I love the game.

Football is a marching band. Precision, timing. Everything planned and executed perfectly.

Hockey. Probably heavy metal.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[NTB]

Read on Twitter

[batsmasher]

TJ's emergence as a tech machine is the funniest micro-plot of this season.



HE HAD 2 LAST SEASON!!

[Qwigglez]

I don't remember who it was, maybe Robin Lopez, but dude hit Warren's head and he showed some real emotion there. That was hilarious. It's too bad we didn't keep Kieff and then somehow end up with Boogie, we'd be just like the bad boys in the 90's.

[lilfishi22]

I don't remember who it was, maybe Robin Lopez, but dude hit Warren's head and he showed some real emotion there. That was hilarious. It's too bad we didn't keep Kieff and then somehow end up with Boogie, we'd be just like the bad boys in the 90's.

Yeah it was Rolo. First bit of real human emotions I've witnessed. It could just be a software bug though. Doesn't seem like they've worked it out yet since he still seem to be malfunctioning and racking up techs.

[Blonde]

I can understand TJ getting a lot more technicals this year. He takes a beating every single game and never gets the calls because he usually looks out of control or manages to weave between the defense. The guy takes more shots to the head and ends up on the floor more than I player I can remember. I actually worry about his health moving forward because his playstyle is just not protected by refs.

But it's good to see him emerging as a vocal piece of the team. Remember that this is the first full year he's clearly had the reigns on the starting SF position. Last year there were questions about whether PJ would start and TJ missed a lot of time in the begininng of the season.

I'm super excited about how TJ will develop as he begins to enter his prime, and I believe that prime will last a long time assuming he stays healthy. I can see TJ becoming great on D in time. He has shown some flashes and I think his woes are seriously overblown on that end. If we suround TJ with 3pt shooters at the 1, 2, and 4, then he will look even better on offense too.

[Cutter]

In the real world of basketball, sometimes you are the assist'er, and sometimes you are the assist'ee.

TJ is an assit'ee. 61% of his baskets are assisted, and the other 39% of his shots he creates. Steve Nash was an assist'er, averaging nearly 11 apg during his prime 7 years with the Suns.

The fact that TJ has low assists numbers is almost meaningless. He is beast moving off-ball, and his continuous movement allows Booker and others to look for good high percentage opportunities to feed him the ball.

TJ is fine.

[jcsunsfan]

In the real world of basketball, sometimes you are the assist'er, and sometimes you are the assist'ee.

TJ is an assit'ee. 61% of his baskets are assisted, and the other 39% of his shots he creates. Steve Nash was an assist'er, averaging nearly 11 apg during his prime 7 years with the Suns.

The fact that TJ has low assists numbers is almost meaningless. He is beast moving off-ball, and his continuous movement allows Booker and others to look for good high percentage opportunities to feed him the ball.

TJ is fine.

This is exactly true. Passing the ball is not TJ's role. But he creates assists for others. His cutting. His ability to catch and convert in one motion almost anywhere within ten feet creates passing opportunities that do not occur with other people on the court. People that just sit and stare at stats in order to evaluate cannot see this.

[Walt_Uoob]

In the real world of basketball, sometimes you are the assist'er, and sometimes you are the assist'ee.

TJ is an assit'ee. 61% of his baskets are assisted, and the other 39% of his shots he creates. Steve Nash was an assist'er, averaging nearly 11 apg during his prime 7 years with the Suns.

The fact that TJ has low assists numbers is almost meaningless. He is beast moving off-ball, and his continuous movement allows Booker and others to look for good high percentage opportunities to feed him the ball.

TJ is fine.

This is exactly true. Passing the ball is not TJ's role. But he creates assists for others. His cutting. His ability to catch and convert in one motion almost anywhere within ten feet creates passing opportunities that do not occur with other people on the court. People that just sit and stare at stats in order to evaluate cannot see this.

I also don't really worry about his three-pointer for a similar reason. It will be nice if/when he starts hitting it more consistently, but I don't want him camping out at the line very much. His movement and cutting is more important.

[Cutter]

If I had to wish for an improvement in TJ's game, rather than wish for an improvement in 3 point shooting (although it is important) I think it is more important to improve in drawing contact when finishing at the rim.

Currently he is averaging 4.1 FTA per game. An extreme example is James Harden drawing contact for 10.9 FTA per game last year. If TJ could get his 3 point shot up to say 30% (not very good), but more importantly improve in drawing contact at the rim using his patented cutting-moving style of play up to say 8 FTA per game, he would be in the All-Star hunt approaching star status.