The 2016 Offseason Thread

[lilfishi22]

I changed my mind about Amare. I was disappointed the Suns did not let him ride off into the sunset as a Suns player and that he retired as a Knick. But now that he signed a contract to play in Israel, you really see that all he cares about is attention. He is obsessed with it. He wants to be the toast of the town somewhere and does not care about much else. I believe he loves the game like he says but when you retire, you are supposed to retire. Signing to play outside the country immediately after you retire is not really retiring. He should not have retired in the first place and just left to play somewhere else. The whole situation is ridiculous.

Totally disagree with this notion. Are you saying ex-players aren't allowed to play pick up or celebrity games or some regional league as well? Amare retired from the NBA, he didn't retire from basketball. If a player can no longer play at the highest level (NBA) whether due to injuries, age or whatever reason and retire from the highest level, why can't they play in China, Australia or in Amare's case, Israel?

Amare has done enough to choose to retire from the NBA when he's no longer getting offers from teams he wants to play for and instead play for a team he actually has a vested interest in. I see absolutely no issue with that.

I am not saying anything about pickup games, celebrity games, or anything of that nature, or even a player making a comeback after retiring. I am saying how Amare handled his retirement is weird. He makes a big deal out of retiring, signs a one day contract with the Knicks, and says I am done playing the NBA. Days later, he signs to play in another country. Why didn't he just not retire and leave the NBA without making a big deal out of it.

Didn't Carlos Boozer just sign to play in China? That guy did not even play in the NBA last season and I do not recall him signing a one day contract with some team, say I am retiring from the NBA, and then days later immediately sign to play in China. He just did not say anything and signed to play in China. Amare should not have acted like his career was over and retire only to immediately sign to play in another professional league days after retiring. In my mind, if you are playing professionally somewhere in the world, you are not really retired.

How he retired is a completely separate issue to your notion of "staying retired".

Retiring from the NBA is the turning of a page for Amare's career. It means he's put a stamp on his NBA career, not on his basketball career. If I had no intention of coming back to the NBA for whatever reason, then I'm going to exit on my terms which is an official retirement from the NBA. It's no different to Kobe saying a few years back that once his NBA career is over, he may go play in Italy where he has some roots. Or similarly, think of a CEO who retires from the corporate world to manage a charity or some sort of volunteer group.

[NaturalBuns]

A typical young prospect is 18-19 year old just drafted with 1-year of college under their belts. Archie is equivalent to a player that spent four years in college (22-year old). When teams draft 22 year old players the thought is they are mature enough and know the game well enough they can contribute right away. They are typically less athletic but are fundamental sound and have a high basketball IQ. That's certainly not the case with Archie. We have seen him flounder for three years in the NBA and he is by far and by the numbers the worst two guard in the league. As Frank mentioned, if the front office had any faith in Archie then Barbosa wouldn't have been signed. Really Jenkins over Archie make much more sense.

You just compared a 4yr college player to a 3 year NBA player.

Yep ... I would expect a 3-year NBA player to dominate a 4-year college player (drafted in the first round). I don't believe Archie, in a team setting and playing the shooting guard position, would be able to do that. He can't shoot 3's, he turns the ball over, he can't make free throws, he can't play defense, his basketball IQ is very low, and he really hasn't shown himself to be a team player.

Really

.232 for 3 point percentage
.674 for free throw percentage
1.8 turnovers in 19 minutes of play

I would expect a third year NBA bench level shooting guard to be shooting at least .333 for threes and .750 for free throws. Archie is what he is ... an athletic specimen without the BBIQ and skills to play in the NBA.

What I was getting to is you said Archie is equal to a 4yr college player coming Into the NBA. That they can contribute right away. Well Archie hasn't played yet this season to make that statement. By your logic this would be "his year"


By the way I don't agree with what you said at all CJ McCollum came into the league and barely did anything his first two years until he hit that 22-23 age mark. He came out a senior I believe. Giving up on Archie now is stupid in my opinion

[lilfishi22]

What I was getting to is you said Archie is equal to a 4yr college player coming Into the NBA. That they can contribute right away. Well Archie hasn't played yet this season to make that statement. By your logic this would be "his year"


By the way I don't agree with what you said at all CJ McCollum came into the league and barely did anything his first two years until he hit that 22-23 age mark. He came out a senior I believe. Giving up on Archie now is stupid in my opinion

Why would it be stupid to give up on a player who has yielded no positive results or shown much progress in the three seasons with us? I think it's stupid to keep hoping a player who's full time job is to improve his shot yet has shown no improvements, can suddenly become a decent shooter and valued contributor.

For me, this experiment is over.

[Qwigglez]

Archie had the best opportunity this past season to showcase his talent and let everyone know he belongs in this league, or at the very least show that he is a role player on this squad, but he failed at that. His jumper mechanics are still very shaky and I doubt he'll improve enough to be a rotation player anywhere in the NBA.

[MathiasPW]

Apparently there is a new way of embedding tweets, and for Tapatalk users it got even worse. Now you can't even open the links anymore

[bigfoot]

You just compared a 4yr college player to a 3 year NBA player.

Yep ... I would expect a 3-year NBA player to dominate a 4-year college player (drafted in the first round). I don't believe Archie, in a team setting and playing the shooting guard position, would be able to do that. He can't shoot 3's, he turns the ball over, he can't make free throws, he can't play defense, his basketball IQ is very low, and he really hasn't shown himself to be a team player.

Really

.232 for 3 point percentage
.674 for free throw percentage
1.8 turnovers in 19 minutes of play

I would expect a third year NBA bench level shooting guard to be shooting at least .333 for threes and .750 for free throws. Archie is what he is ... an athletic specimen without the BBIQ and skills to play in the NBA.

What I was getting to is you said Archie is equal to a 4yr college player coming Into the NBA. That they can contribute right away. Well Archie hasn't played yet this season to make that statement. By your logic this would be "his year"


By the way I don't agree with what you said at all CJ McCollum came into the league and barely did anything his first two years until he hit that 22-23 age mark. He came out a senior I believe. Giving up on Archie now is stupid in my opinion

McCollum was injured for the first six weeks of his rookie season ... no training camp ... out of shape ... unable to practice much with the team ... didn't play in his first game until January. Still his 3 point shooting percentage was a very respectable .375 which shows he had fine tuned his shooting in college. McCollum was contributing as a bench player by his 2nd year and a very good starter by his 3rd year. Archie shoots the same crappy percentages now as he did in college.

Goodwin .440 FG% .266 3P% .637 FT% in 1 year college
Goodwin .419 FG% .232 3P% .674 FT% in 3 years NBA

Maybe Goodwin will surprise us and improve his shooting ... after all it is a contract year. Still I think I would hold onto Jenkins

Jenkins .449 FG% .363 3P% .846 FT% in 4 years NBA

Goodwin has one year remaining on his contract and becomes a RFA. Jenkins has two and is half the price.

[bwgood77]

I changed my mind about Amare. I was disappointed the Suns did not let him ride off into the sunset as a Suns player and that he retired as a Knick. But now that he signed a contract to play in Israel, you really see that all he cares about is attention. He is obsessed with it. He wants to be the toast of the town somewhere and does not care about much else. I believe he loves the game like he says but when you retire, you are supposed to retire. Signing to play outside the country immediately after you retire is not really retiring. He should not have retired in the first place and just left to play somewhere else. The whole situation is ridiculous.

Well he obviously didn't want to retire, and being only 33 and watching many of the guys that came into the league around the same time like LeBron, Melo, etc have to leave his desire to play very high. I don't blame him for wanting to live his passion for as long as possible. Not sure why he retired if he wanted to keep playing, but so did many other guys like Magic, Jordan, etc.

[bwgood77]

I want Bender and Chriss to each get at least 20 minutes a game. I do not care how raw or unprepared people claim they are. Who cares. Just play them. People said the same stuff about Booker like all he can do is shoot and nothing else and look what happened. I want the new Suns rookies to compete for ROY. I would absolutely play them over a guy like Tucker who I have no idea why is still on the team anyway. Is this season about wins and losses? It is time to go all in and hand this team to the young players. Let's see what they got.

I don't think either players are ready for 20mpg. In order for others on the court to play well, you need players who are ready to contribute to also be playing. 20mpg to Bender and Chriss, if neither are ready to contribute more than spot minutes will mean the other 4 players on the court will suffer. If they can come in early in the season and demonstrate some skill that keeps them on the floor, stays within the flow of the game and contribute then they'll get 10-15mpg. If they come in and is saddled with foul trouble, turnovers, playing bad defense or offers nothing on offense etc then I'd rather Dudley and PJ take more minutes and stick with spot minutes for the rookies. It makes no sense for a black hole on defense or offense to be on the floor for half the game if there's a guy on the bench that can contribute within the flow of the system.

You can't just say, this is a rebuild so we'll just hand the young and unproven players the keys to the team. I think that's neither good for team morale or, more importantly, positive for the development of our young players. Booker is an exception and not the rule.

Yes, these guys are so young it will take a while and you don't want to demoralize a guy who is not prepared at this stage for that many minutes.

[bwgood77]

I changed my mind about Amare. I was disappointed the Suns did not let him ride off into the sunset as a Suns player and that he retired as a Knick. But now that he signed a contract to play in Israel, you really see that all he cares about is attention. He is obsessed with it. He wants to be the toast of the town somewhere and does not care about much else. I believe he loves the game like he says but when you retire, you are supposed to retire. Signing to play outside the country immediately after you retire is not really retiring. He should not have retired in the first place and just left to play somewhere else. The whole situation is ridiculous.

Totally disagree with this notion. Are you saying ex-players aren't allowed to play pick up or celebrity games or some regional league as well? Amare retired from the NBA, he didn't retire from basketball. If a player can no longer play at the highest level (NBA) whether due to injuries, age or whatever reason and retire from the highest level, why can't they play in China, Australia or in Amare's case, Israel?

Amare has done enough to choose to retire from the NBA when he's no longer getting offers from teams he wants to play for and instead play for a team he actually has a vested interest in. I see absolutely no issue with that.

I am not saying anything about pickup games, celebrity games, or anything of that nature, or even a player making a comeback after retiring. I am saying how Amare handled his retirement is weird. He makes a big deal out of retiring, signs a one day contract with the Knicks, and says I am done playing the NBA. Days later, he signs to play in another country. Why didn't he just not retire and leave the NBA without making a big deal out of it.

Didn't Carlos Boozer just sign to play in China? That guy did not even play in the NBA last season and I do not recall him signing a one day contract with some team, say I am retiring from the NBA, and then days later immediately sign to play in China. He just did not say anything and signed to play in China. Amare should not have acted like his career was over and retire only to immediately sign to play in another professional league days after retiring. In my mind, if you are playing professionally somewhere in the world, you are not really retired.

I don't think he made a big deal about retiring but some people here certainly did.

[bwgood77]

Apparently there is a new way of embedding tweets, and for Tapatalk users it got even worse. Now you can't even open the links anymore

Look at the top of the page in Howard Mass' thread. You don't have to use the tweet icon or youtube icon anymore but just can directly post those links into the thread.

[NTB]

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/amare-stoudemire-knicks-suns-israel/

These are the parts about Suns:

Let’s start with where it all started, in Phoenix, with Stephon Marbury. I was his rookie. He took me under his wing and showed me the ropes. Too many people forget that he was an All-Star, a max-contract player. For a player that great to take me under his wing, it just meant so much to me.

Then there’s Steve Nash. Before he arrived, we already had a pretty strong nucleus in myself, Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion and Leandro Barbosa. When we brought Steve on board, we reached a whole new level. Everyone else fed off him. Once you have a pass-first point guard, a guy who just focuses on getting the ball to where it needs to be —who’s just making his teammates better — it opens up the entire game.

We redefined the game of basketball. Before us, the center position was more like Shaq or Karl Malone. We didn’t have that size, but we had speed. Mike D’Antoni made a decision to go small. Teams weren’t ready for it. They weren’t ready for Seven Seconds or Less.

And the passing. The passing. Wooooo boy, the passing. I just laugh thinking about it.

I don’t know how Steve made some of those passes. In the heat of the moment on the court, you don’t really appreciate a great pass. But once I got a chance to watch the replay, either on the jumbotron or in film sessions, I’d go up to him and say, “That was a hell of a pass!”

Steve was one of the best passers and shooters the game has ever seen, and I had the best seat in the house to watch him work. Steve took my game to a whole new level. He showed me what it meant to be a leader.

Can’t forget about the big fella, neither: Shaq. I idolized him growing up. And I got to play with him in Phoenix in ’08 and ’09. We did work, too. I was putting up insane numbers thanks to him and all the attention teams had to give him.

Over 14 seasons in the NBA, I experienced a lot of great basketball. I got to play with my childhood heroes. I helped change the game forever. And I got to feel a lot of love from fans.

That love, that excitement that I felt in New York and Phoenix? Nothing beats it. I’ll carry it with me even as I move on to a new stage in my career. I’ll always love those cities, how they welcomed me and turned me into the man I am today. Those cities, those people are in my heart forever.

[MathiasPW]

Apparently there is a new way of embedding tweets, and for Tapatalk users it got even worse. Now you can't even open the links anymore

Look at the top of the page in Howard Mass' thread. You don't have to use the tweet icon or youtube icon anymore but just can directly post those links into the thread.

Thank you for pointing that out, but that's not my issue. I am having problems OPENING links posted through Tapatalk app, rather than posting links myself.

Previously I couldn't see the embedded link, but I could click it and it would open on my phone browser. That is not working anymore.

[bwgood77]

Apparently there is a new way of embedding tweets, and for Tapatalk users it got even worse. Now you can't even open the links anymore

Look at the top of the page in Howard Mass' thread. You don't have to use the tweet icon or youtube icon anymore but just can directly post those links into the thread.

Thank you for pointing that out, but that's not my issue. I am having problems OPENING links posted through Tapatalk app, rather than posting links myself.

Previously I couldn't see the embedded link, but I could click it and it would open on my phone browser. That is not working anymore.

It might have to do with the fact that all older tweets (I think) that used the brackets around them, after the switch, suddenly are not embedded anymore.

[MathiasPW]

Might be, but highly unlikely. Any specific board where I can put this for further examination?

[Frank Lee]

don't know who I will miss more.... Goodwin or the 'Goodwhiners'

[bigfoot]

don't know who I will miss more.... Goodwin or the 'Goodwhiners'

I'll always be here for you Frank

[bwgood77]

Might be, but highly unlikely. Any specific board where I can put this for further examination?

You could respond to Howard in his twitter thread above with a PM asking him about the issue. I mentioned the question in another forum.

[Frank Lee]

don't know who I will miss more.... Goodwin or the 'Goodwhiners'

I'll always be here for you Frank

Wouldn't be so bad if you could pencil in some minutes for AG... But he looks to be be last in the line of 5 -7 guys. Just seems logical to move one of knight or Tucker as well as Archie. If not, My guess is we'll running a 4G line up most of the game

Has Chriss returned to the valley?

[NTB]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2016/08/01/phoenix-suns-brandon-knight-connects-phoenix/87919600/

“When I say same role, it’s about me being better as a player,” Knight said Saturday. “Wherever that falls, that’s where it falls. I’m excited about the season. That’s the most important part. I’m excited about being healthy. I’m excited about playing with Book, Bled (Eric Bledsoe), Archie (Goodwin). I’m excited about playing with everybody and looking forward to what we can do.

“When you want to win, that’s what it’s about. That’s what it was about when I did the exit interview. I’ve been on a winner my entire life. When I get to this level, that’s the main thing I want to do now – win. For me, it’s about being a better player and challenging guys around me to be better and doing what I can to take our team to the next level, whether I have the same role or whatever that may be.”

“I know I’m better,” Knight said. “Just through workouts and things I can do now that I couldn’t do last year without pain. I’m excited for the season. I’m excited to be a lot healthier than I was since I got here. I haven’t felt this good in maybe two years.”

Knight said he has not spoken to Suns coach Earl Watson about how Bledsoe, Knight and Booker will be used.

“I know we’re going to do the right thing and do whatever it takes to win,” Knight said. “Earl is a great coach, leader and motivator for our team. We all want to win and enjoy being together. That’s what it is going to be about, coming together no matter who is playing or who is starting. Our main goal is to make the playoffs and not just make the playoffs but do something in the playoffs.”

“He has the ability to play either guard spot,” Suns General Manager Ryan McDonough said. “He can play the 1. He can play the 2. He’s an elite shooter. People who just saw Brandon playing last year when he was a little bit banged up and wasn’t 100 percent probably don’t realize how well he shoots the ball when he’s healthy and right. We think, with our top four or five guards, they will be interchangeable. They’ll be able to play either spot. We have at least four, maybe five guys now, who can get in the paint, break down defenses and kick to open shooters.

“We think our offense will flow a lot better. This year, we have a lot more firepower. Brandon, this summer, has been unbelievable in terms of his work ethic. His body feels great and looks great.”

“We’re building that brotherhood off the court so that, when we get here, it’ll make the practices and adversity easier because we’ve been together,” Knight said. “I think it (chemistry) is better this year. I feel like we’re all on the same page. We didn’t have a team trip last year so we already have taken a step ahead.”

“I feel like I’m pretty much adjusted and getting used to the city and fans," Knight said. "I enjoy doing stuff like this. When you’re blessed to do things like this, it’s the least I can do to take a day out of my summer to help the kids.”

[lilfishi22]

He's saying all the right things. We'll see how he fares when Booker hopefully takes over the starting 2 spot sometime during the season.