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Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1021 » by NavLDO » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:58 am

Jdiddy701 wrote:Suns better be calling New Orleans, but not to get Cousins..

If New Orleans is wanting to compete for the playoffs this year, Monroe for their 1st rounder. They are desperate!

If New Orleans feels it’s time to rebuild, Ryan McD has to get Anthony Davis. Trade the farm for him, when I mean the farm, I mean the farm. Chriss, Bender, Suns first, MIA pick, Mil pick, etc, I would trade them all.

I hate to say this because the injury but this is the situation that Ryan McD has been waiting for. I would be shocked if we do not deal with them. Let’s go!!!!


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Seriously, if you are the GM of the Pels, once the word "Davis" comes out of McD's mouth, I'm not listening to a single other word until I hear "Booker".

Would you trade AD for anything less than Booker? I wouldn't...Warren, Chriss, Bender, JJ, Picks...don't care. Not trading AD without Booker being in the package; ain't happening, and I don't blame him.

EDIT: Now, if McD is feeling really 'ballsy' he could offer Monroe, Chriss, Daniels, and Booker for AD and Moore, and we could then build around AD, instead, with Warren, JJ, Bender, etc.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yc3d2xn2

Canaan / JJ / Warren / Bender / AD
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1022 » by Revived » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:13 am

NavLDO wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:Suns better be calling New Orleans, but not to get Cousins..

If New Orleans is wanting to compete for the playoffs this year, Monroe for their 1st rounder. They are desperate!

If New Orleans feels it’s time to rebuild, Ryan McD has to get Anthony Davis. Trade the farm for him, when I mean the farm, I mean the farm. Chriss, Bender, Suns first, MIA pick, Mil pick, etc, I would trade them all.

I hate to say this because the injury but this is the situation that Ryan McD has been waiting for. I would be shocked if we do not deal with them. Let’s go!!!!


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Seriously, if you are the GM of the Pels, once the word "Davis" comes out of McD's mouth, I'm not listening to a single other word until I hear "Booker".

Would you trade AD for anything less than Booker? I wouldn't...Warren, Chriss, Bender, JJ, Picks...don't care. Not trading AD without Booker being in the package; ain't happening, and I don't blame him.

I don't think they would even trade him for Booker. We would have to trade every piece that's worth any value plus sacrifice cap space for the likes of Solomon Hill/Omir Asik etc just to get Davis. It would be pointless because yeah we would have our first true superstar since 2009 Steve Nash but at the same time, our options would be limited in how we can improve.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1023 » by Revived » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:16 am

1UPZ wrote:Can they trade Cousins while being injured?

lol


maybe Suns offer Chandler and Len for Cousins.... hope Cousins come back 70% by next year... re-up him... then in 2020-2021 he's back to his old self.

Cousins is a FA this summer.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1024 » by Revived » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:16 am

I wish New Orleans would trade a 2nd rd pick for Monroe or something just because I can pick up Monroe in fantasy then as he would get consistent minutes there and give me my much needed rebounding!!
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1025 » by jcsunsfan » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:23 am

Jdiddy701 wrote:Suns better be calling New Orleans, but not to get Cousins..

If New Orleans is wanting to compete for the playoffs this year, Monroe for their 1st rounder. They are desperate!

If New Orleans feels it’s time to rebuild, Ryan McD has to get Anthony Davis. Trade the farm for him, when I mean the farm, I mean the farm. Chriss, Bender, Suns first, MIA pick, Mil pick, etc, I would trade them all.

I hate to say this because the injury but this is the situation that Ryan McD has been waiting for. I would be shocked if we do not deal with them. Let’s go!!!!


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The only way we do a Monroe trade is if we take back bad-horrible contracts. I don’t think they are trading the Brow.


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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1026 » by NavLDO » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:27 am

Revived wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:Suns better be calling New Orleans, but not to get Cousins..

If New Orleans is wanting to compete for the playoffs this year, Monroe for their 1st rounder. They are desperate!

If New Orleans feels it’s time to rebuild, Ryan McD has to get Anthony Davis. Trade the farm for him, when I mean the farm, I mean the farm. Chriss, Bender, Suns first, MIA pick, Mil pick, etc, I would trade them all.

I hate to say this because the injury but this is the situation that Ryan McD has been waiting for. I would be shocked if we do not deal with them. Let’s go!!!!


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Seriously, if you are the GM of the Pels, once the word "Davis" comes out of McD's mouth, I'm not listening to a single other word until I hear "Booker".

Would you trade AD for anything less than Booker? I wouldn't...Warren, Chriss, Bender, JJ, Picks...don't care. Not trading AD without Booker being in the package; ain't happening, and I don't blame him.

I don't think they would even trade him for Booker. We would have to trade every piece that's worth any value plus sacrifice cap space for the likes of Solomon Hill/Omir Asik etc just to get Davis. It would be pointless because yeah we would have our first true superstar since 2009 Steve Nash but at the same time, our options would be limited in how we can improve.


Sorry, I just edited my post to include a trade with Booker included...but you are correct, which is why I added Chriss and Daniels (to make money work) and took back Moore, which frees up $8m in space for them NOW, and Monroe, well, if they keep him, wouldn't cost more than what he does now, with the flood of Centers in the league. But Daniels is $3M for 2 yrs vs $9M for 3 yrs.

So by us 'eating' more money, them plummeting in the standings into the lottery and getting a nice prospect, by the start of the '19-'20 Season, they would have, assuming they go with Mikal or Miles Bridges and stick with Chriss and develop him....

Jrue / Booker / Bridges / Chriss / Boogie

Holy Moly, that's a good team, and better than what they are fielding now, IMO. Or maybe Diallo ends up better than Chriss...who knows...
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1027 » by NavLDO » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:55 am

BobbieL wrote:Sam Amico - not sure how reliable - probably more Kyler, Jordan Schultz - but anyway

Faried and Mudiay available

Monroe for both would work and give cap space
but I would prefer Chandler for Faried Mudiay

or maybe just the Suns second rounder for Mudiay

Read on Twitter


I know a lot of folks here are down on Faried because he's an undersized, yet 'old school' PF with no range, but his pricetag is reasonable for his services and is expiring at the end of next season.

Mudiay hits the 3-ball pretty nicely, but the rest of his game still needs work; but in comparison to what the Suns have for PGs, I'll take it.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y89xhylv

I would try to squeeze a pick out of them, but not sure we'd be able to. But this deal gets a PG we can at least try, and a back-up PF.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1028 » by NavLDO » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:02 am

Kerrsed wrote:
Read on Twitter


One thing i dont miss about Dragic, such a lil' whiner.

C'mon man! Are you trying to say you had a better season than Wall/Oladipo/Beal/Lowery ??? 17/5/4 with a PER of 16 isnt setting the world on fire and doesnt make you a shoe in.

You want to be an all-star? Then put in the hard work and be the best player you can be and if you really have the skills and talent, then you will be playing in that game. Yeah, having a great season on a bad team doesnt make you an all-star, just like having a mediocre season on a great team doesnt.

Quit crying.


No, no, it's everyone else's fault...the big meanies!

Yeah, the dude is delusional; he's just not as good as he thinks he is...never has been. He had ONE 'great' season; that's it.

And for all those that blame McD for him leaving, well, I just shake my head. From the get-go you could plainly see it was a case of Dragic being a cry-baby about not getting to play PG all by his onesies. Instead of just waiting for McD to fix the situation, which he did by making a horrible trade in getting rid of IT.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1029 » by lilfishi22 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:09 am

I'd give up the farm minus Booker for AD. Any combination of players and picks that would get them to listen?
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1030 » by jcsunsfan » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:10 am

IT is a drama queen too. Look at what is going on in Cleveland with IT and Love. And then there is Bledsoe and his agent. That is the the PMS trifecta of point guards.


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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1031 » by lilfishi22 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:59 am

jcsunsfan wrote:IT is a drama queen too. Look at what is going on in Cleveland with IT and Love. And then there is Bledsoe and his agent. That is the the PMS trifecta of point guards.


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IT is a huge drama queen. Dudes comes in, plays a few games after sitting out with an injury for most of the season and has the nerve to single out and go at Kevin Love, a guy who actually has a ring. Dude couldn't even play defense if he tried and he's spearheaded one of the worst starting line ups in the league this season. And he's calling out Kevin Love? FOH
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1032 » by NavLDO » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:22 pm

Qwigglez wrote:It will be very interesting to see if Kawhi request a trade this summer. He will be in his final year of his contract, so while he is a top 7-8 player in the league, you'd have to be worried to make a play for him in case he leaves anyway. I'd think he'd have far more value than what Paul George was able to net, though Victor Oladipo did make that trade more favorable for the Pacers IMO. I'm not sure we'd have the assets to make a deal unless we land a top 3 pick, but then as mentioned before he may just opt out and join a different team.
I did see something mentioned that he wouldn't take any discounts on his new contract, so he'd want the max value, and him going to another team he wouldn't make nearly as much, so there is incentive for him to stay on a new team that just traded for him. I know Kyrie mentioned the Spurs as a team he would want to play for, and I don't think it's because of the city I think it's mostly because of Kawhi. So maybe if we did trade for Kawhi over the summer, let's say we gave up everything besides Booker; which is probably, JJ, Bender, our top 3 pick (hopefully the Gods reward us since we aren't actually tanking and we just suck), the Bucks pick, and both Miami picks. Maybe Kyrie joins our squad in the summer of 2019, and we got ourselves a big three of Booker, Kawhi, and Kyrie.

Yes I know, very wishful thinking. But it's also that kind of ripple effect that can dynamically change your team (hopefully for the better). I mean, imagine had we traded for Kyrie last summer, we'd likely be a top destination this summer with Kyrie/Booker tagteam. Regardless, I'm completely off the Kemba bandwagon. I just don't think he changes our team very much. Maybe we win 8 more games, but I don't think he's the kind of player that attracts other stars. I haven't heard anyone mentioned they wanted to go to the Hornets. Mostly above average players that are grossly overpaid (Batum). They did offer Hayward that contract several summers ago that was matched by Utah, but I think Hayward knew he was going to be matched and was just using whatever team he could to land that contract.


You are looking at it in a vacuum. It's Kemba, with Booker, and either JJ or Warren (assuming we'd have to trade Warren).

Kemba makes JJ better, faster than who we have now; i do not believe that can be debated. I'm not saying Kemba's the best PG we could possibly attain; I'm saying that Kemba is a better PG than any we currently have on the roster, and yes, he does provide assists, and gets his teammates the ball. He's not as much of a 'Ball Hog' as he gets made out to be here on this board.

His last 10 games he's 23.7 / 6.2 / 3.5 shooting 37.3% from 3 on 8.3 APG. So yeah seems like a lot of pts and shots, but 6.2 assts don't happen by mistake, and are higher than any PG we've had here for quite some time.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walkeke02/gamelog/2018/#479-488-sum:pgl_basic

Now look at JJ's last 9 games (with 2 'inactives' in there, which is why it's 9, not 10)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksjo02/gamelog/2018/#39-47-sum:pgl_basic

Holy crap, that looks respectable! Imagine if he actually had a real PG every game. 14.6 / 4.1 / 1.8, while shooting .364 from 3, in 23 MPG? Are you kidding me? Add in another 7-8 minutes, or 1/3 of his stats, and he'd slash -- 19.5 / 5.5 / 2.4 whilst shooting 36.5% from 3 on 5 APG. Looks very similar to another SF on our roster, minus the 3PT att/%

So, it's not Kemba attracting other stars, it's

Kemba / Booker / JJ ...or...

23.7 / 24.5 / 19.5 (projected)
37% on 8 att / 38% on 7 att / 36% on 5 att

So, I guess I'm saying, I'm not off ANY PG bandwagon, until we fix our situation. And Kemba/Booker/JJ may not be a 'Big 3' now, but it may very well be next season if we can get Kemba in this season, and we take in another potential star via the draft or FA, because why? We don't suck anymore, because we have a true PG.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1033 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:45 pm

Does Booker play PG again against Houston?

That situation has to have an answer before we can find a solution at PG.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1034 » by lilfishi22 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:48 pm

NavLDO wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:It will be very interesting to see if Kawhi request a trade this summer. He will be in his final year of his contract, so while he is a top 7-8 player in the league, you'd have to be worried to make a play for him in case he leaves anyway. I'd think he'd have far more value than what Paul George was able to net, though Victor Oladipo did make that trade more favorable for the Pacers IMO. I'm not sure we'd have the assets to make a deal unless we land a top 3 pick, but then as mentioned before he may just opt out and join a different team.
I did see something mentioned that he wouldn't take any discounts on his new contract, so he'd want the max value, and him going to another team he wouldn't make nearly as much, so there is incentive for him to stay on a new team that just traded for him. I know Kyrie mentioned the Spurs as a team he would want to play for, and I don't think it's because of the city I think it's mostly because of Kawhi. So maybe if we did trade for Kawhi over the summer, let's say we gave up everything besides Booker; which is probably, JJ, Bender, our top 3 pick (hopefully the Gods reward us since we aren't actually tanking and we just suck), the Bucks pick, and both Miami picks. Maybe Kyrie joins our squad in the summer of 2019, and we got ourselves a big three of Booker, Kawhi, and Kyrie.

Yes I know, very wishful thinking. But it's also that kind of ripple effect that can dynamically change your team (hopefully for the better). I mean, imagine had we traded for Kyrie last summer, we'd likely be a top destination this summer with Kyrie/Booker tagteam. Regardless, I'm completely off the Kemba bandwagon. I just don't think he changes our team very much. Maybe we win 8 more games, but I don't think he's the kind of player that attracts other stars. I haven't heard anyone mentioned they wanted to go to the Hornets. Mostly above average players that are grossly overpaid (Batum). They did offer Hayward that contract several summers ago that was matched by Utah, but I think Hayward knew he was going to be matched and was just using whatever team he could to land that contract.


You are looking at it in a vacuum. It's Kemba, with Booker, and either JJ or Warren (assuming we'd have to trade Warren).

Kemba makes JJ better, faster than who we have now; i do not believe that can be debated. I'm not saying Kemba's the best PG we could possibly attain; I'm saying that Kemba is a better PG than any we currently have on the roster, and yes, he does provide assists, and gets his teammates the ball. He's not as much of a 'Ball Hog' as he gets made out to be here on this board.

His last 10 games he's 23.7 / 6.2 / 3.5 shooting 37.3% from 3 on 8.3 APG. So yeah seems like a lot of pts and shots, but 6.2 assts don't happen by mistake, and are higher than any PG we've had here for quite some time.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walkeke02/gamelog/2018/#479-488-sum:pgl_basic

Now look at JJ's last 9 games (with 2 'inactives' in there, which is why it's 9, not 10)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksjo02/gamelog/2018/#39-47-sum:pgl_basic

Holy crap, that looks respectable! Imagine if he actually had a real PG every game. 14.6 / 4.1 / 1.8, while shooting .364 from 3, in 23 MPG? Are you kidding me? Add in another 7-8 minutes, or 1/3 of his stats, and he'd slash -- 19.5 / 5.5 / 2.4 whilst shooting 36.5% from 3 on 5 APG. Looks very similar to another SF on our roster, minus the 3PT att/%

So, it's not Kemba attracting other stars, it's

Kemba / Booker / JJ ...or...

23.7 / 24.5 / 19.5 (projected)
37% on 8 att / 38% on 7 att / 36% on 5 att

So, I guess I'm saying, I'm not off ANY PG bandwagon, until we fix our situation. And Kemba/Booker/JJ may not be a 'Big 3' now, but it may very well be next season if we can get Kemba in this season, and we take in another potential star via the draft or FA, because why? We don't suck anymore, because we have a true PG.

I get what you're saying. I still don't agree Kemba adds much in terms of our ability to attract FA's. He's better than Ulis/Canaan but I just don't think he moves to needle for FA's. Especially if we're talking about another high USG% PG next to an already high usage star SG, neither of whom are great defenders. I just don't think it's a great recipe going forward. Not every back court pairing can be Splash Bros.

I'll grant you this, the offense will be better with a competent PG in Kemba and I'm not saying I don't want him but it needs to make sense from a financial and trade standpoint. If the Hornets are holding off for our 1st rounder, then I'm hanging up the phone right away. It doesn't sound like he's on the trade block by what MJ's said but if he is, it's either to bring back assets in return or as a package to remove bad contracts. The 1st scenario would be asking for a picks but I don't necessarily think they want to move Kemba just for picks; they have no reason to. The 2nd scenario is more likely but if that's the case then the 1st rounder is off the table since we're taking back one of their bad contracts.

Either way, the max I'd give up for him is Monroe and probably the worst of our picks (Miami?) top 15 protected. THis also depends highly on who else we get back as well. Anyway I honestly don't think Kemba's a guy that is turning any FA's our way. Like I said, it's a better situation than our current one but the current situation is exactly that and it will be addressed. I just don't think jumping on Kemba bandwagon right now is a smart move especially with the draft and FA looming.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1035 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:20 pm

What if we draft Young or Doncic what would we do with Walker.

We would have taken Fultz or Ball if we got some luck and traded Bledsoe for pick 13 (reportedly).
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1036 » by King4Day » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:25 pm

People are jumping the gun a bit here.
Pels are not going to trade Davis. They see the promise an AD and Cousins pairing can offer.
They also aren't trading an injured Cousins.

The best we can hope for is trading them Monroe for a 2nd and expirings (which I'm pretty sure they don't have many of).

I don't see us as a good trade partner with N.O.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1037 » by BobbieL » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:37 pm

DarkHawk wrote:People are jumping the gun a bit here.
Pels are not going to trade Davis. They see the promise an AD and Cousins pairing can offer.
They also aren't trading an injured Cousins.

The best we can hope for is trading them Monroe for a 2nd and expirings (which I'm pretty sure they don't have many of).

I don't see us as a good trade partner with N.O.


I just looked - I thought Asik was expiring - he is not. Ajinca still has another year after this

Monroe should not be traded to the Pelicans

I can see them trading maybe Chandler for Asik - -but again, the Suns still have him on the books next year with a $3m buyout for 19/20 - Chandler is done next year, no buyout so basically 3m of wasted cap space.

Deal or No Deal with the Pelicans?

No DEAL!!!

Monroe is very valuable as an expiring contract - if it becomes a three way and the Suns keep an expiring or lessen cap space in 18/19 - that's fine.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1038 » by King4Day » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:50 pm

BobbieL wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:People are jumping the gun a bit here.
Pels are not going to trade Davis. They see the promise an AD and Cousins pairing can offer.
They also aren't trading an injured Cousins.

The best we can hope for is trading them Monroe for a 2nd and expirings (which I'm pretty sure they don't have many of).

I don't see us as a good trade partner with N.O.


I just looked - I thought Asik was expiring - he is not. Ajinca still has another year after this

Monroe should not be traded to the Pelicans

I can see them trading maybe Chandler for Asik - -but again, the Suns still have him on the books next year with a $3m buyout for 19/20 - Chandler is done next year, no buyout so basically 3m of wasted cap space.

Deal or No Deal with the Pelicans?

No DEAL!!!

Monroe is very valuable as an expiring contract - if it becomes a three way and the Suns keep an expiring or lessen cap space in 18/19 - that's fine.


If we end up buying out Monroe, I think the Pels will be where he goes for sure. That's their best hope.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1039 » by NavLDO » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:03 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Again.... Why bother if you are not getting a player who fits in for the next 2-3 years, and I mean fits in as in contractually obligated without having to deal with FA bartering. Keep that cap space. Look around the league and you see many teams who got FA happy and crippled their flexibility. We are in a very good spot.

Just stand pat unless a smoking good deal falls in our lap. (isn't Skal a bit redundant?) No way would I deal our first pick, and Im real hesitant about moving Milw's/Miami's picks as they could be used to move up some or even land a decent PG prospect. This is our last year where being bad/abysmal could pay of. I really hope we can land one of Bagley/Ayton/Bamba/Jackson then follow it up with TBrown/Sexton/Milton/Duval/Shamat in those orders. Doncic and Porter are the wild cards that may alter this extremely
logical and economic plan 8-) It is imperative we get a top 5 pic, well... it would just make things so much easier. I really have no interest in Young. The length and speed of NBA will be a bothersome factor for him. No doubt the kid can crazy-chuck away, but we already have our mad bomber. I think Young has a dangerous down side...

I want length, D, attitude, and IQ. All of those later round PGs can shoot. I think the difference between the top 4 bigs and a late round big is much greater than the difference between Young and one of the late round PGs. Besides, like it or not, if Knight is still here (very likely) he will get every opportunity to lose the starting job. :-?


PS... forgot about Skai G-A... he's in there too. I almost wish the season was over and we were into the combines


You and the 4 "And1ers" are funny. We're in a good spot, huh?

-- We've got 2 PFs that were drafted in the top 10 that are 'meandering in mediocrity' with no direction.
-- We have a SF drafted in the top 5 that is, just now, getting real minutes, but only by virtue of player injuries/expulsions.
-- We have another Top 5 pick that has just been given up on all-together.
-- We have a $17M expiring contract that, apparently, we are NOT going to take advantage of, to make our team better.
-- We have an interim Head Coach, with no attempt at changing that during this season--we wouldn't want to shake things up, or anything, and ruin our chance at the playoffs. Another Head Coach might become available, like, oh, I don't know Kidd?!?! (I'm not advocating going after him; just the opposite, why are we waiting? To pick up someone else's trash?)

But hey, we have Cap Space and Draft picks!! Just like last year...and the year before that...and the year before that...and the...ok, you get the point, yet somehow, you think we are in a 'good spot'.

I do not see it that way at all, because we won't do anything with the Cap Space, but sign more mid-level scrub talent like we always do. Chandler, Dudley, etc.

I do agree that the talent pool runs deep at PG this draft class, and we should be able to get a better PG than what we have. My list differs from yours, however, as I would add a couple of players, and delete one.

Troy Brown, to me, is not best suited for PG, or really, even Combo Guard. To me, he's a 2-3, rather than a 1-2. If we drafted him, Booker moves to the 1, Brown slides into the 2, IMO. Which is fine, if that's what suits McD.

Doncic
Young (I hear what you are saying, but a 'struggling Young' is still better than most of these PGs)
Sexton
Shai 'Gilgy'
Walker (Another Combo-type PG; shares duties with Brown)
Duval
Shamet
Brunson (Another FANTASTIC college PG, with limited NBA-level athleticism, like Young, but Brunson is older; more 'definite' on the athleticism issues)

Any of those guys would be better than Ulis, but long-term starter? Probably Doncic down to Walker would be guys I can see in that role, but Duval can't shoot, Shamet is a twig, and Brunson lacks athleticism.

But, as far as us being in a 'good spot'?? I'm not seeing it. As we can see, having good draft picks don't mean 'didley-squat' if they are developed properly. Having Cap Space means nothing if our teams sucks, and nobody wants to come here, which is why, Frank, you need to get back on the 'other team', and recognize that Draft Picks/Young Players are not enticing All-Stars to come here, so when an opportunity opens up to trade for an 'all-star-talent' player like Kemba, you need to try to make it happen.

Image

This was used earlier to discuss Booker...but look a few slots down, and who do you see? Yep, Kemba. Now, put both of them on the same team, with JJ, who in the last 10 games is showing some nice ability as I showed in a previous post, and we have the makings of a Big 3. You, or others, don;t think 'Kemba' is a Top 3 option on a contending team? OK, fine, he can be the 4th option, because we are going to attract another high-level-telant, or we can draft it.

But, but, but Cap Space...yeah, Cap Space. If Kemba and Booker are on our team, we get to go into, over, whatever the technical term is, the Luxury Tax to sign our own players, in the Summer of 2019...AFTER this next Summer's FA period...next year's trade deadline...and shoot, the beginning of '19's FA period, where we can sign a player, then Max Kemba and Booker. We're allowed to do that. Chandler will be off. We do everything we can to get BK off, but if not, he'll be off the next year. But we may not need to, anyway, because we have this year's draft...

"But, but, but, we'll have to trade all of our picks and take on all of their salary to get Kemba!! Jordan said so!" I don't care what Jordan said. We make is numbers go down by taking Kemba, and Howard. Both 2 year contracts. We then, give them Warren, Chriss, and Bender...three young guys THEY can try to develop properly (well, Warren's already there, pretty much)...plus an expiring Monroe. We throw in Milwaukee's 1st, and Miami's '18 1st.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yd7jhcul

So now, not only do they gain $7M immediately, they gain $18M at the end of the season, have their positions 2-5 worked out (with Batum avg'ing nearly 5 assts per game, anyway, so they can play Lamb/Batum together in the short term, I'd say.) All they need to do, is with one of their, now 2 x '18 1sts, is draft a true PG, and they have, say, Sexton/Lamb/Warren/Frank or Chriss or Bender/Zeller

Then, we have...

Kemba / Booker / JJ / JJJ (Jaren Jackson Jr) / Howard

Howard comes off when Chandler does, and voila' our Cap space is intact.
NavLDO
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5 

Post#1040 » by NavLDO » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:16 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:It will be very interesting to see if Kawhi request a trade this summer. He will be in his final year of his contract, so while he is a top 7-8 player in the league, you'd have to be worried to make a play for him in case he leaves anyway. I'd think he'd have far more value than what Paul George was able to net, though Victor Oladipo did make that trade more favorable for the Pacers IMO. I'm not sure we'd have the assets to make a deal unless we land a top 3 pick, but then as mentioned before he may just opt out and join a different team.
I did see something mentioned that he wouldn't take any discounts on his new contract, so he'd want the max value, and him going to another team he wouldn't make nearly as much, so there is incentive for him to stay on a new team that just traded for him. I know Kyrie mentioned the Spurs as a team he would want to play for, and I don't think it's because of the city I think it's mostly because of Kawhi. So maybe if we did trade for Kawhi over the summer, let's say we gave up everything besides Booker; which is probably, JJ, Bender, our top 3 pick (hopefully the Gods reward us since we aren't actually tanking and we just suck), the Bucks pick, and both Miami picks. Maybe Kyrie joins our squad in the summer of 2019, and we got ourselves a big three of Booker, Kawhi, and Kyrie.

Yes I know, very wishful thinking. But it's also that kind of ripple effect that can dynamically change your team (hopefully for the better). I mean, imagine had we traded for Kyrie last summer, we'd likely be a top destination this summer with Kyrie/Booker tagteam. Regardless, I'm completely off the Kemba bandwagon. I just don't think he changes our team very much. Maybe we win 8 more games, but I don't think he's the kind of player that attracts other stars. I haven't heard anyone mentioned they wanted to go to the Hornets. Mostly above average players that are grossly overpaid (Batum). They did offer Hayward that contract several summers ago that was matched by Utah, but I think Hayward knew he was going to be matched and was just using whatever team he could to land that contract.


You are looking at it in a vacuum. It's Kemba, with Booker, and either JJ or Warren (assuming we'd have to trade Warren).

Kemba makes JJ better, faster than who we have now; i do not believe that can be debated. I'm not saying Kemba's the best PG we could possibly attain; I'm saying that Kemba is a better PG than any we currently have on the roster, and yes, he does provide assists, and gets his teammates the ball. He's not as much of a 'Ball Hog' as he gets made out to be here on this board.

His last 10 games he's 23.7 / 6.2 / 3.5 shooting 37.3% from 3 on 8.3 APG. So yeah seems like a lot of pts and shots, but 6.2 assts don't happen by mistake, and are higher than any PG we've had here for quite some time.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walkeke02/gamelog/2018/#479-488-sum:pgl_basic

Now look at JJ's last 9 games (with 2 'inactives' in there, which is why it's 9, not 10)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksjo02/gamelog/2018/#39-47-sum:pgl_basic

Holy crap, that looks respectable! Imagine if he actually had a real PG every game. 14.6 / 4.1 / 1.8, while shooting .364 from 3, in 23 MPG? Are you kidding me? Add in another 7-8 minutes, or 1/3 of his stats, and he'd slash -- 19.5 / 5.5 / 2.4 whilst shooting 36.5% from 3 on 5 APG. Looks very similar to another SF on our roster, minus the 3PT att/%

So, it's not Kemba attracting other stars, it's

Kemba / Booker / JJ ...or...

23.7 / 24.5 / 19.5 (projected)
37% on 8 att / 38% on 7 att / 36% on 5 att

So, I guess I'm saying, I'm not off ANY PG bandwagon, until we fix our situation. And Kemba/Booker/JJ may not be a 'Big 3' now, but it may very well be next season if we can get Kemba in this season, and we take in another potential star via the draft or FA, because why? We don't suck anymore, because we have a true PG.

I get what you're saying. I still don't agree Kemba adds much in terms of our ability to attract FA's. He's better than Ulis/Canaan but I just don't think he moves to needle for FA's. Especially if we're talking about another high USG% PG next to an already high usage star SG, neither of whom are great defenders. I just don't think it's a great recipe going forward. Not every back court pairing can be Splash Bros.

I'll grant you this, the offense will be better with a competent PG in Kemba and I'm not saying I don't want him but it needs to make sense from a financial and trade standpoint. If the Hornets are holding off for our 1st rounder, then I'm hanging up the phone right away. It doesn't sound like he's on the trade block by what MJ's said but if he is, it's either to bring back assets in return or as a package to remove bad contracts. The 1st scenario would be asking for a picks but I don't necessarily think they want to move Kemba just for picks; they have no reason to. The 2nd scenario is more likely but if that's the case then the 1st rounder is off the table since we're taking back one of their bad contracts.

Either way, the max I'd give up for him is Monroe and probably the worst of our picks (Miami?) top 15 protected. THis also depends highly on who else we get back as well. Anyway I honestly don't think Kemba's a guy that is turning any FA's our way. Like I said, it's a better situation than our current one but the current situation is exactly that and it will be addressed. I just don't think jumping on Kemba bandwagon right now is a smart move especially with the draft and FA looming.


I know I'm in the minority, here. And that's ok. So long as all items are looked at, I guess, is my issue. When I see "Well, Kemba's not good enough to get other players here." I just shake my head a little, because it's not just Kemba. Booker isn't sending FA's this way either. But the two of them together...PLUS the added benefit of JJ likely (I'm not guaranteeing, just taking the odds, here), developing faster with a true, high-level PG, I just think, if JJ 'blows up' in the final 30 games, and we finish the season, say, near .500 (meaning, we go 17-16 to finish the season), which is doable, depending on the structure of the deal, then other teams might bite. Especially in my latest proposal with taking Howard? We might start turning some heads our way, is all...

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