2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV

[thamadkant]

If Amen Thompson is off limits then ask for Jalen Green..

Then knock at Pistons door if Ausar Thompson is available.... he was practically putting up the same numbers as Amen when he was getting close to 30 minutes...he's minutes are down to low 20s so his numbers are down. But Suns might be able to pry him away.

[thamadkant]

I like what I see from Bol Bol.... and the blueprint is already there with Wemby so...

Bol Bol getting a bit stronger could be the hybrid center/forward Suns need.

So if Suns can get Jalen Green and Ausar Thompson, with Dunn... Suns become really long and athletic.

[bwgood77]

If Amen Thompson is off limits then ask for Jalen Green..

Then knock at Pistons door if Ausar Thompson is available.... he was practically putting up the same numbers as Amen when he was getting close to 30 minutes...he's minutes are down to low 20s so his numbers are down. But Suns might be able to pry him away.

I think one of Green, FVV or Brooks would be the filler. Brooks would make us tougher and annoy opponents. FVV can hit a high volume of 3s, though he's down this year from his average. I know people hate him, but I do think Brooks is more the type of gritty player we need. However, I understand the argument to go for young talent.

Now if we trade Book in a deal there, FVV or Green make more sense. Brooks is also 29. I figure he's got a good 5 years left. Green I'm just not sure of his peak. He has the talent but does he have the IQ?

And then I feel the Amen Thompson would be off the table and we'd HAVE to get one of Eason or Smith, depending on preference. Then with KD, maybe 1 or possibly 2 picks and if Book, I think 3 or possibly 4, but that might be a stretch.

[bwgood77]

Just curious, GoK, what do you do in your spare time?

Joking of course, kind of.

[Calvin Klein]

I like what I see from Bol Bol.... and the blueprint is already there with Wemby so...

Bol Bol getting a bit stronger could be the hybrid center/forward Suns need.

So if Suns can get Jalen Green and Ausar Thompson, with Dunn... Suns become really long and athletic.

The different between Bol and Wemby is one is a high IQ player and the other one the complete opposite. And I'm pretty sure that when it comes to being competitive, it's pretty much the same.

[Frank Lee]

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/apron/_/year/2025/sort/cap_total2

[Ghost of Kleine]

100%.

I was never high on Green and with the contract they gave him, it's clear they aren't super high on Green either.

FVV, Smith and a bunch of picks is probably what I'd like in a KD deal. Smith is a high potential guy who isn't even 22 yet, has great physical attributes, still under team control at a low salary and is basically worth a 1st round pick himself. FVV is a massive expiring so we're not taking on any big long-term salaries and if we could get like 2-3 picks, that's probably a pretty decent deal for KD.

I look at it this way in a slightly positive beneficial slant in a potential Booker trade because If it's true that they're not high on him (like they are with Amen who's clearly untouchable) then his value will be lower causing them to add more in the exchange in order to meet the necessary value thresholds. Now I don't want Van Vleet despite his huge expiring because he represents just another aging undersized guard that if included would at up most of the salary matching in the deal resulting in Houston having to surrender a much smaller package of young players for him. I mean sure he's a solid vet, but if we're trading Booker, then we're rebuilding. And we could just as easily get far enough under the cap line and aprons by virtue of taking back 2-3 of their young cost-controlled talents and then trading KD as well because it'd make no sense to trade Booker and just try to compete around a 37 yr old KD and oft-injured Beal. I'd much rather take back J Green/ Eason or Whitmore and our 1sts back than Van Vleet ( huge salary Dump) and maybe only 1 young prospect/ picks. Because in taking back a lower salary than Van Vleet, it becomes more necessary for Houston to add multiple salaries to get closer to matching.

I get that some here don't value Jalen Green as highly as I might. But his value/upside going forward far outweighs the one-time cap reduction Van Vleet would offer to us. Sure he hasn't yet put it all together yet, but he's still only 23 years old and that'll come with age and more experience, and his ceiling is very high! I mean he's already averaging 21/4/4, and really just needs to improve his shot selection, timing, and situational nuance to take that next big leap!

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But it likely won't matter what people think of Green, as any Booker trade with Houston, would absolutely be sending Green back to us rather than to keep both and have close to 80 million tied up in only one position. Only our front office is dumb enough to do that!....LOL. But if it's actually a KD to Houston trade we're talking about, AND we're taking Van Vleet back to get all of our 3 1st back (25,27, and 29 1sts). Then I'm cool with that package of KD for Van Vleet/ Smith Jr/ PHX 25' 1st, PHX 27' 1st, PHX 29' 1st. I can be down with that. Then sign a bunch of free agent depth pieces around Booker and Beal, and draft athletic, young talent to be our core for the future!

To be clear, I'm not talking about a Booker trade. This would be for KD

And the way I see Green is that he's good but he's not great. Book was also good but not great until he figured out how to not only be a playmaker but also be an efficient scorer, two things Green hasn't quite worked out yet. Pulling out nice 5 game sample over like a 3 year period doesn't move the needle for me. Even Josh Jackson has a couple of good 5 game samples.

Well I again do agree with you about the KD package premise as I previously mentioned. if it's indeed a KD package, then I agree that the package you suggested would be perfectly good value in my opinion.

Although I might push hard for another small inclusionary piece like Whitmore at least initially when starting negotiations as it's just customary to start high and work your way down to mutually amenable value.

But ultimately I'd be cool settling on your package of KD for Van Vleet/ Jabari Smith Jr/ our 3 1sts back. Because maybe if in the 8-10 range It'd be highly beneficial for us to consider trading that pick back down in the draft to another team with multiple 1sts. Brooklyn or else maybe Orlando in an Allen for Bidatze and their 16th, 25th, and44th picks?

To eventually end up with 2-3 1sts and maybe a 2nd or two ( G league stash) AND if our pick is premium enough, target a pick in 26 or 28 from either Brooklyn or Orlando as well.

Ultimately, something like say the 6th or 8th pick for Brooklyn's 19th, 24th, and 36th picks. That would give us 3 cost controlled (4 yrs) young athletic talents to build out our core at key positions with, and having a great mix of both vet experience and young athletic, high energy talent to push for maybe (if done correctly) a 6-8 seeding in the playoffs??

And for J Green, you're absolutely right that currently he's really good but not yet great. But as you yourself pointed out with Book, it becomes a matter of " figuring it out" as is the case with most young players as they garner more experience (situationally) and through acquired in game development. Now I don't see JGreen at all being as efficient as Booker.

But I do think he can become a potent 2nd option type scoring weapon ala maybe a Clyde Drexler or a Dwayne Wade archetype player IF everything breaks right for him to reach his ceiling. Now sometimes for young players, the biggest aspect (aside from cumulative "in game "experience) that could be inhibiting a more rapid development arch would be the environment itself and how that player might be utilized, the game schemes or even roster construction not meshing ideally?

But nevertheless in terms of value, high end talent is value that you look to exchange for a player such as Booker. Even if it's not yet fully realized ceiling value in its current condition. It's the investment that you buy low on to get a bargain while looking towards a maximum payout later.

Getting Green right now serves to purposes. 1st, it fills the hole left by Booker at that position for the long term future with an equitably high upside value talent with Star potential.

And 2nd, because his value currently is not at it's apec or percieved highly in this current situation ( to Houston) because of his struggles, we'd be getting him at a significant discount as a salary filler.

But ALSO, in taking him back at a lower salary than Van Vleet in this exchange, it allows us to demand additional value inclusions up to matching KDs' salary. Squeezing more value out of the deal cumulatively.

And the point of the tweets I shared was to illustrate multiple instances of 5 more stretches of games putting up star level production, and on elite efficiency at only 23 yrs old. This indicates his clear star potential as a top 2-3 option ( franchise cornerstone piece) with a very high value ceiling outcome.

Josh Jackson never was the shooter, scorer that JGreen is. He's never scored with that level of efficiency from all over the court. Really the only stark similarities between them would be their athleticism and propensity for driving to the rim, and maybe their irrational confidence.

[Ghost of Kleine]

If Amen Thompson is off limits then ask for Jalen Green..

Then knock at Pistons door if Ausar Thompson is available.... he was practically putting up the same numbers as Amen when he was getting close to 30 minutes...he's minutes are down to low 20s so his numbers are down. But Suns might be able to pry him away.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Just curious, GoK, what do you do in your spare time?

Joking of course, kind of.

[Slim Charless]

If Amen Thompson is off limits then ask for Jalen Green..

Then knock at Pistons door if Ausar Thompson is available.... he was practically putting up the same numbers as Amen when he was getting close to 30 minutes...he's minutes are down to low 20s so his numbers are down. But Suns might be able to pry him away.

Over on the Magic board they're talking alot about the pros and cons of keeping the Franz/Paolo combo together. Suggs is needed for his defense so he'll probably stay either way.

Those guys all love Franz and think that Paolo would be the 1 to move. I'd do Paolo, picks and whatever filler is needed for that i think.


I'd also call on Ausar, I mean they're twins so athletically they can do the same stuff. Maybe we flip Jalen there for Ausar, Ivey and more picks? Bring out a teams of

Ivey
Dunn
Ausar
Paolo
Jabari

Tons of youth, athleticism and defense, not much shooting but then that's what we target in the drafts. Plus we still have Greyson and Beal off the bench.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

If I were the Rockets I wouldn't deal Green or Thompson for Booker or Durant. And I'd keep our picks.

Might as well hibernate, because this winter is going to last several years.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I like what I see from Bol Bol.... and the blueprint is already there with Wemby so...

Bol Bol getting a bit stronger could be the hybrid center/forward Suns need.

So if Suns can get Jalen Green and Ausar Thompson, with Dunn... Suns become really long and athletic.

The different between Bol and Wemby is one is a high IQ player and the other one the complete opposite. And I'm pretty sure that when it comes to being competitive, it's pretty much the same.

Lol! I'm sure Wemby is high IQ in his own way J/k.......

But really, Wemby would be an ultimate archetype goal for Bol (if at all possible for him to reach that outcome) for the reasons that you mentioned. Maybe Bol should cut back a bit on all of the marijuana smoking a bowl" (pun intended) habits and hire someone to help him gain strength, balance, and greater agility.A really solid strength and conditioning regimen and maybe even take some ballet,
or martial arts classes for balance and discipline? Obviously though, it'd be quite a longshot as Bol just seems happy and affable about his current mediocre outcome. He just doesn't have that fire and intensity to reach his full potential.

[bwgood77]

If I were the Rockets I wouldn't deal Green or Thompson for Booker or Durant. And I'd keep our picks.

Might as well hibernate, because this winter is going to last several years.

You wouldn't deal Green? I would be hesitant to deal the picks, but Green is not that great. If it was like Green, Jabari and 2 of their own picks (not ours), I'd do it if I were Houston. Because we'd still suck. But of course I wouldn't do it if I was them.

Houston really needs a go to scorer. They are very tough defensively. Jalen Green shoots 42% from the field, 35% from 3 (his best ever) and less than 49% from 2.

He hovers around 50% efg% which is pretty bad.

Then he averages 3 assists and 2.5 topg, so he is a guard that is inefficient and not a good passer. He also rates as their worst defender. I don't see what there is to like other than his age and athleticism.

If we in any way wanted to compete, I'd prefer FVV or Brooks for the filler in a return, or even for trade value to flip elsewhere, I just think they'd hold more.

If we deal Book I'd hope for one of FVV or Brooks and one of Jabari or Eason (assuming Amen and Sengun are off the table) and then someone like Whitmore and at least our 27 and 29 pick. Possibly our 25 one or their own they can swap with Dallas when AD and Kyrie are old.

Then if we could get a C in return in a KD trade and another pick. Or a PG back. Draft a PG or C in the draft at 28 or both if we have our pick back too.

However, we know we probably will re-sign KD and Ishbia's reasoning will be "He wants to be here" and Book will stick around for a couple years with KD and then ask out while we hover around the play in, while losing trade value as he starts to get past his prime and has less time left on his contract

[thamadkant]

I like what I see from Bol Bol.... and the blueprint is already there with Wemby so...

Bol Bol getting a bit stronger could be the hybrid center/forward Suns need.

So if Suns can get Jalen Green and Ausar Thompson, with Dunn... Suns become really long and athletic.

The different between Bol and Wemby is one is a high IQ player and the other one the complete opposite. And I'm pretty sure that when it comes to being competitive, it's pretty much the same.

Bol Bol is nowhere near Wemby overall. Point is Bol Bol would be good as a role playing center for Bud since he can block and shoot 3s.

[They_Them_Hatin]

If I were the Rockets I wouldn't deal Green or Thompson for Booker or Durant. And I'd keep our picks.

Might as well hibernate, because this winter is going to last several years.

They’ve already come out and said Amen is untouchable which he should be. His potential is unlimited. I’m meh on Green. He just isn’t that good to me and I think the Rockets trade talk is lazy media narrative because they have the Suns picks.

[thamadkant]

If I were the Rockets I wouldn't deal Green or Thompson for Booker or Durant. And I'd keep our picks.

Might as well hibernate, because this winter is going to last several years.

Yeah, Rockets could go the Celtics way back several years ago when Ainge rejected trading young Tatum and Brown for KD.... and rather develop a new younger core.

But hopefully they don't have that vision.

[thamadkant]

If Amen Thompson is off limits then ask for Jalen Green..

Then knock at Pistons door if Ausar Thompson is available.... he was practically putting up the same numbers as Amen when he was getting close to 30 minutes...he's minutes are down to low 20s so his numbers are down. But Suns might be able to pry him away.

Over on the Magic board they're talking alot about the pros and cons of keeping the Franz/Paolo combo together. Suggs is needed for his defense so he'll probably stay either way.

Those guys all love Franz and think that Paolo would be the 1 to move. I'd do Paolo, picks and whatever filler is needed for that i think.


I'd also call on Ausar, I mean they're twins so athletically they can do the same stuff. Maybe we flip Jalen there for Ausar, Ivey and more picks? Bring out a teams of

Ivey
Dunn
Ausar
Paolo
Jabari

Tons of youth, athleticism and defense, not much shooting but then that's what we target in the drafts. Plus we still have Greyson and Beal off the bench.

There is zero chance Magic trade Pablo for Booker. Pablo will surpass Booker in a couple of years time and he's 6'9 and so young. Booker is only valued really highl by some Suns fans. He's not a two way player and isn't an elite athlete that would make up for bad shooting nights by getting to the rim or free throw line. I can see Ja Morant being traded for Pablo or something similar.... Booker ain't it.

Hence I'm OK with getting Rockets deal of youth, Suns picks back and salary. I think Jalen Green can be a 2nd option star in his prime... just need to get him to play more disciplined both ways.

[Slim Charless]

Over on the Magic board they're talking alot about the pros and cons of keeping the Franz/Paolo combo together. Suggs is needed for his defense so he'll probably stay either way.

Those guys all love Franz and think that Paolo would be the 1 to move. I'd do Paolo, picks and whatever filler is needed for that i think.


I'd also call on Ausar, I mean they're twins so athletically they can do the same stuff. Maybe we flip Jalen there for Ausar, Ivey and more picks? Bring out a teams of

Ivey
Dunn
Ausar
Paolo
Jabari

Tons of youth, athleticism and defense, not much shooting but then that's what we target in the drafts. Plus we still have Greyson and Beal off the bench.

There is zero chance Magic trade Pablo for Booker. Pablo will surpass Booker in a couple of years time and he's 6'9 and so young. Booker is only valued really highl by some Suns fans. He's not a two way player and isn't an elite athlete that would make up for bad shooting nights by getting to the rim or free throw line. I can see Ja Morant being traded for Pablo or something similar.... Booker ain't it.

Hence I'm OK with getting Rockets deal of youth, Suns picks back and salary. I think Jalen Green can be a 2nd option star in his prime... just need to get him to play more disciplined both ways.

That's funny to read and I'm being completely serious here when i said I've read Magic fans complain on their board about Paolo's defense and how much his efficiency stinks. Also on the trade board you should see what ppl having Ja go for lol.

None of which matters as we all value things differently. I think Orlando will be primed to make a move come summer. Will it be Booker? Who knows. I know that all the dudes on that boars are furious that they haven't made a big time move for an elite scorer.

[Ghost of Kleine]

If Amen Thompson is off limits then ask for Jalen Green..

Then knock at Pistons door if Ausar Thompson is available.... he was practically putting up the same numbers as Amen when he was getting close to 30 minutes...he's minutes are down to low 20s so his numbers are down. But Suns might be able to pry him away.

Over on the Magic board they're talking alot about the pros and cons of keeping the Franz/Paolo combo together. Suggs is needed for his defense so he'll probably stay either way.

Those guys all love Franz and think that Paolo would be the 1 to move. I'd do Paolo, picks and whatever filler is needed for that i think.


I'd also call on Ausar, I mean they're twins so athletically they can do the same stuff. Maybe we flip Jalen there for Ausar, Ivey and more picks? Bring out a teams of

Ivey
Dunn
Ausar
Paolo
Jabari

Tons of youth, athleticism, and defense, but not much shooting but then that's what we target in the drafts. Plus we still have Grayson and Beal off the bench.

That's funny that they'd be weighing that possibility man because I'd personally think that they're a good inside/outside threat with Poalos' inside dominance and Wagners' versatility as an outside compliment. I'd love to get Paolo in a Bookeer trade if possible! Ultimately, in this premise, this is what I think I'd look to do:

1-Trade KD to Houston for J Green/ Landale/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st.
2- Trade Booker/Allen to Orlando for Banchero/ Sugg/ Bidatze/ DEN 25 1st.
Now we'd have our PHX 25' 1st (6-8 range) and we can trade back w/ Brooklyn for their 16th and 25th picks and also their 28' 1st (lottery protected)?? Now we can draft:

Spoiler:

19- Rasheer Fleming. 6'9 smaller but more athletic LaMarcus Aldridge/ better 3PT shooting/rim-protecting Randle.
24- Sergio de Larrea. 6'7 PG Sergio Rodriguez/ lesser Luka Doncic.
27- Carter Bryant. 6'8 Kuzma/ B Clarke (power wing).
29- Jo'an Beringer (G league stash for development). 6'11 with a 7'5 wingspan mix of Jarret Allen/ Claxton/ Missi.
54- Kobe Brea (G League stash for development). 6'7 Klay Thompson/Booker.

Our roster becomes:

Suggs/ Beal/ Dunn/ Banchero/ Bidatze.
_____________________________________________
Brogdon/ J Green/ Whitmore/ Landale/ Richards.
_____________________________________________
Larrea/ Brea/ Bryant/ Fleming/ Ighodaro.

OR if we trade KD to Detroit instead, and Booker to Orlando:

KD for Harris/ Thompson/ Fontecchio/ 2 DET 1sts. (**intentional package for follow-up trade)
Now I'll trade Harris + Fontecchio's combined 35 million/ 2 DET 1sts for Michael Porter Jr. Waive/decline BOTH of Martin and Milicic (giving us an additional 17 million in cap space. Next in free agency, we sign.................
- B Lopez $ 18 million? (** Favor to coach Bud)??
- Trent Jr vet minimum.

Beal/ Thompson/ Porter Jr/ Banchero/ B Lopez.
_________________________________________________
Suggs/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Bidatze/ Richards.
_________________________________________________
Larrea/ Brea/ Bryant/ Fleming/ Landale.

*** G League stash for development
1- Beringer. To work on his shooting, ballhandling, and strength and weight, experience.
2- Ighodaro. To work on his shooting and ballhandling.
3- Colin Gillespie. to just be himself more?

[Slim Charless]

Over on the Magic board they're talking alot about the pros and cons of keeping the Franz/Paolo combo together. Suggs is needed for his defense so he'll probably stay either way.

Those guys all love Franz and think that Paolo would be the 1 to move. I'd do Paolo, picks and whatever filler is needed for that i think.


I'd also call on Ausar, I mean they're twins so athletically they can do the same stuff. Maybe we flip Jalen there for Ausar, Ivey and more picks? Bring out a teams of

Ivey
Dunn
Ausar
Paolo
Jabari

Tons of youth, athleticism, and defense, but not much shooting but then that's what we target in the drafts. Plus we still have Grayson and Beal off the bench.

That's funny that they'd be weighing that possibility man because I'd personally think that they're a good inside/outside threat with Poalos' inside dominance and Wagners' versatility as an outside compliment. I'd love to get Paolo in a Bookeer trade if possible! Ultimately, in this premise, this is what I think I'd look to do:

1-Trade KD to Houston for J Green/ Landale/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st.
2- Trade Booker/Allen to Orlando for Banchero/ Sugg/ Bidatze/ DEN 25 1st.
Now we'd have our PHX 25' 1st (6-8 range) and we can trade back w/ Brooklyn for their 16th and 25th picks and also their 28' 1st (lottery protected)?? Now we can draft:

Spoiler:

19- Rasheer Fleming. 6'9 smaller but more athletic LaMarcus Aldridge/ better 3PT shooting/rim-protecting Randle.
24- Sergio de Larrea. 6'7 PG Sergio Rodriguez/ lesser Luka Doncic.
27- Carter Bryant. 6'8 Kuzma/ B Clarke (power wing).
29- Jo'an Beringer (G league stash for development). 6'11 with a 7'5 wingspan mix of Jarret Allen/ Claxton/ Missi.
54- Kobe Brea (G League stash for development). 6'7 Klay Thompson/Booker.

Our roster becomes:

Suggs/ Beal/ Dunn/ Banchero/ Bidatze.
_____________________________________________
Brogdon/ J Green/ Whitmore/ Landale/ Richards.
_____________________________________________
Larrea/ Brea/ Bryant/ Fleming/ Ighodaro.

OR if we trade KD to Detroit instead, and Booker to Orlando:

KD for Harris/ Thompson/ Fontecchio/ 2 DET 1sts. (**intentional package for follow-up trade)
Now I'll trade Harris + Fontecchio's combined 35 million/ 2 DET 1sts for Michael Porter Jr. Waive/decline BOTH of Martin and Milicic (giving us an additional 17 million in cap space. Next in free agency, we sign.................
- B Lopez $ 18 million? (** Favor to coach Bud)??
- Trent Jr vet minimum.

Beal/ Thompson/ Porter Jr/ Banchero/ B Lopez.
_________________________________________________
Suggs/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Bidatze/ Richards.
_________________________________________________
Larrea/ Brea/ Bryant/ Fleming/ Landale.

*** G League stash for development
1- Beringer. To work on his shooting, ballhandling, and strength and weight, experience.
2- Ighodaro. To work on his shooting and ballhandling.
3- Colin Gillespie. to just be himself more?

I don't think you can get Suggs and Paolo for him GoK. Suggs was the heart and toughness on that team and him being gone is, IMO part of the reason that they're not as high in the standings currently. Some other filler is needed like KCP and Harris I think.