The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[Superhuman]

again if you read what I wrote, not saying Bender is good, I said I still have faith Bender can become good. And nobody knows if Ayton is good right now as he hasn't played a single minute against serious competition yet. He could be good from day one, but at this point its only a speculation, just like about Doncic.

Serious question, would you trade Bender for DeAndre Ayton? Because I think it's pretty obvious Ayton is going to be good. So is Luka. I just don't like his fit as much as I like Ayton's.

10 years ago it wouldn't be a question, now I'd have to think about it a bit. As things stand now, I'd still do it of course, as I said, I wouldn't be upset with Suns drafting him, but there is a slight worry that I might regret that in a few years. I do get the fit thing with Doncic and in that regard situation with Ayton is more clear. At the same time, if Ayton cannot overcome his shortcomings, he'll be playing a role not lead the franchise. psych eval and background eval is going to be such a key here. In that regard we know Doncic can do it against the best of them.

What in the world do you mean by psych eval and background eval? They're playing basketball not applying to the CIA

Please explain.

[bwgood77]

I want to say this again:

It doesn’t matter what you did in the Euroleague or Division I.

It matters what we think you’ll do in the NBA.

Definitely, which is why Luka's fit, drive, fire, bbiq, court vision, ability to make others better, etc, seems like such a seamless transition.

Ayton should be definitely be a solid scorer and rebounder...not completely sure about anything outside of that...has the physical tools...not sure about the drive, desire and all that even after watching him all year.

But had I known we'd end up with Ayton at the beginning of the year or even pre lottery I would have been happy.

I think Ayton’s rebounding is a bit too overhyped. He actually struggles boxing out and gets most rebounds due to sheer athleticism and size.

Will he have that same athleticism and size advantage in the NBA that he had over a bunch of college kids? Debatable imo.

He is a VERY solid rebounder. This is one of his best traits. I mean with his wingspan and standing reach he will still have that over most. But he is very skilled to where even if he can't completely reach and grab it, he can tip it up or back to himself to give him the ability to grab it.

I mean he might struggle with more physical guys inside to some extent, because despite his physique, he's not real physical....is more like a teddy bear, but plenty of guys like that are solid rebounders...Towns was one of the best this year (I didn't watch Towns a lot so maybe he was/is more physical though).

[bwgood77]

Yeah, I don't know who "they" is, and I watched AZ this year, and read a lot about him. I had read before that he works hard in weight room but not always the most in practice at one point.

I'd like to see a link and reference to who said that and about what. I think it's pretty evident he's worked a bit on his offensive repertoire on his own in the past, but outside of that I hadn't heard that.

In the article dantley posted above there's a quote about Arizona rewarding best practice performer of the week with a Golden jersey that Ayton had the vast majority of the year. I'd think that indicates he's a pretty hard worker in practice. Also, didn't he start lifting weights this year?

Ayton left for Spain with the coveted gold jersey packed in his suitcase. It's the honor granted at the end of each week to the Arizona player who demonstrates the best performance in practice. He did not surrender the gold jersey for the next four months, a run of 19 consecutive weeks as Arizona's most impressive performer in practice.

For the first time all season, he'd lost something that represented his commitment to pursuing his potential and making the Bahamas proud.

Alkins had the gold jersey.

"Deandre had it every week until Rawle returned and took ownership for two weeks," said team spokesman Matt Ensor earlier this week. "And then Deandre reclaimed it."

That happened in late December.

He hasn't surrendered it since.

I knew he started lifting weights. I didn't know the best practice performer thing so that's good to know.

[Villalobos]

They say Sarver is in love with Doncic, but I dont but it. Sarver is a U of A alumni and I dont see him passing on a chance to take the first U of A guy #1

Read on Twitter

It wouldn't surprise me that much. Sarver had so much success with Nash running things and he HATES losing, and he just watched AZ lose pretty much every important game outside of the PAC 12 this year, mostly against unranked teams.

Now it may not be Ayton's fault they lost, but it's pretty clear Doncic is a pure winner. I'm a little surprised that IF Sarver is enamored with Doncic that the basketball people prefer Ayton.

yeah, I wouldn't be that surprised either. Sarver's been over there while Luka won MPV and seen him win finals playoff games and final four MVP in person. After so many years of the Suns losing I could see him being like, "Uh... I'll take some of that winning stuff plz."

[bwgood77]

Don't take this as sacrilege but does anyone get a Nash vibe from Doncic?

Yeah, I already mentioned. Doncic would be a D'Antoni dream. I think the rest of our roster would develop much more quickly playing with someone like that.....or rather their games and strengths would be elevated. With Ayton the team and ball movement likely not to be as good but I'm sure Igor would utilize people the best he could. Hopefully we could find a good floor general if we draft Ayton.

[JoRain]

Serious question, would you trade Bender for DeAndre Ayton? Because I think it's pretty obvious Ayton is going to be good. So is Luka. I just don't like his fit as much as I like Ayton's.

10 years ago it wouldn't be a question, now I'd have to think about it a bit. As things stand now, I'd still do it of course, as I said, I wouldn't be upset with Suns drafting him, but there is a slight worry that I might regret that in a few years. I do get the fit thing with Doncic and in that regard situation with Ayton is more clear. At the same time, if Ayton cannot overcome his shortcomings, he'll be playing a role not lead the franchise. psych eval and background eval is going to be such a key here. In that regard we know Doncic can do it against the best of them.

What in the world do you mean by psych eval and background eval? They're playing basketball not applying to the CIA

Please explain.

psych eval and background are key - motivation and drive, leadership, work ethic. does he really want to be the best and does his work ethic prove it, can he sacrifice and motivate himself to do what' s necessary to win. is it competition or money that drive him. I mean these kind of things.

[Bob8]

Not yet. Do you?

Some of his foot work and shooting and the way he uses his screen man to navigate around defenses seems similar. I haven't watched a lot of him though to really tell.
When i watched his highlights against Porzingis, I got Nash vibes.

He gets a pass because he’s so young, and Nash was, what, 30 when he came back?

Here’s my question: Doncic has been playing high level basketball for a long time. What if he’s peaked?

Oh man, he is barely 19, looks overweighted and not in the best shape and has big room for improvement in shooting. Nobody is in prime 19 years old. But one thing is for sure, he has got incredible confidence boost winning everything and that will show in Nba too.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Not yet. Do you?

Some of his foot work and shooting and the way he uses his screen man to navigate around defenses seems similar. I haven't watched a lot of him though to really tell.
When i watched his highlights against Porzingis, I got Nash vibes.

He gets a pass because he’s so young, and Nash was, what, 30 when he came back?

Here’s my question: Doncic has been playing high level basketball for a long time. What if he’s peaked?

I've seen the 'peaked' thing thrown around with Doncic but I don't really get that argument. Just because he has an advanced foundation of skills doesn't mean he can't work and get better in areas of his game. Heck I would counter that because he has a strong base line of fundamentals that will allow him to laser focus on some weaknesses because he doesn't have to work as much on some of the basics like other prospects.

I do think he has an awareness of angles and the flow of a game that is just an innate natural feel that most players don't have. Even the Doncic skeptics have to admit the dude has a great feel for the game.

I'm on the same boat as Miagi in that I think both Ayton and Doncic are very good prospects with bright futures. I personally prefer Doncic because I have a near obsession with BBIQ the last couple of years but I completely get why people like Ayton better; dude is a physical marval.

[bwgood77]

While my opinions are changing each day, I wouldn't be opposed to moving the #1 pick and trading back with a team like Memphis if it meant landing Doncic and a really good asset.

Are there any of those 10 minutes 'player breakdown' videos out there that show the positives and negatives of a player (with commentary)?

Here is one for Doncic. Edit: Though this is all highlights from last summer...he's progressed a lot from what you see here....I don't know if there is a more recent one though.

Watch on YouTube

Here is one from Ayton....looks like it's through most of his games except the tourney ones.

Watch on YouTube

[8on]

I keep trying to talk myself into Ayton after you guys shoot him down - by the way, I’m SHOCKED Ayton is still leading this poll - and now I’m intrigued by Luka. Again. And then I’ll come up with reasons to hate Luka and love Ayton, and then #LukaSquad will tell me he’s Jahlil Vucevic, and on and on and on.

[Superhuman]

10 years ago it wouldn't be a question, now I'd have to think about it a bit. As things stand now, I'd still do it of course, as I said, I wouldn't be upset with Suns drafting him, but there is a slight worry that I might regret that in a few years. I do get the fit thing with Doncic and in that regard situation with Ayton is more clear. At the same time, if Ayton cannot overcome his shortcomings, he'll be playing a role not lead the franchise. psych eval and background eval is going to be such a key here. In that regard we know Doncic can do it against the best of them.

What in the world do you mean by psych eval and background eval? They're playing basketball not applying to the CIA

Please explain.

psych eval and background are key - motivation and drive, leadership, work ethic. does he really want to be the best and does his work ethic prove it, can he sacrifice and motivate himself to do what' s necessary to win. is it competition or money that drive him. I mean these kind of things.

I see. I think Ayton has the work ethic and drive to become the best. If you read the article posted above it says Ayton was awarded the best practice performer for Arizona 19 consecutive weeks. And you need insane work ethic to gain 20 pounds of muscle and cut away 6% of body fat within just two months. And the fact that Ayton has only been playing basketball for 4 years and already has the potential to be the #1 pick, yea I'd say he has motivation and drive. Him not winning at Arizona doesn't mean he's not a winner. It's not black and white. There are a lot of factors in winning a championship from how good your teammates are and how the coach uses you. This article is a nice read, take a look!
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22023803/arizona-wildcats-freshman-deandre-ayton-not-afraid-do-big-things

[WeekapaugGroove]

10 years ago it wouldn't be a question, now I'd have to think about it a bit. As things stand now, I'd still do it of course, as I said, I wouldn't be upset with Suns drafting him, but there is a slight worry that I might regret that in a few years. I do get the fit thing with Doncic and in that regard situation with Ayton is more clear. At the same time, if Ayton cannot overcome his shortcomings, he'll be playing a role not lead the franchise. psych eval and background eval is going to be such a key here. In that regard we know Doncic can do it against the best of them.

What in the world do you mean by psych eval and background eval? They're playing basketball not applying to the CIA

Please explain.

psych eval and background are key - motivation and drive, leadership, work ethic. does he really want to be the best and does his work ethic prove it, can he sacrifice and motivate himself to do what' s necessary to win. is it competition or money that drive him. I mean these kind of things.

Exactly right. In some ways this is more important with Ayton because if you draft him 1 you're betting on his tremendous upside that will take time and effort to develop.

That's not to say those things aren't important with Doncic or that he's a finished product but I do think because Igor coached him first hand they simply have a better and more comprehensive picture of what type of guy and teammate he is. Where as with Ayton it's a bit more unknown; college coaches will always praise their guy because they want the next good recruit so you have to take their opinions with a grain of salt.

[Mjee]

you guys think Booker/Jackson/TJ is going to be happy with McD choosing Doncic over Ayton??

I don't

[bigfoot]

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

These are really good and a must watch. Wish there was something even remotely similar for Ayton.

[bwgood77]

you guys think Booker/Jackson/TJ is going to be happy with McD choosing Doncic over Ayton??

I don't

I think they will be happy if they are winning.

[Villalobos]

you guys think Booker/Jackson/TJ is going to be happy with McD choosing Doncic over Ayton??

I don't

I don't care even a little bit about that. Booker will be under control for three or four more years before he might ask for a trade. What I care about is making a good team by that point. So I pick whoever I think is more likely to pan out and help the team win, and imo that's Doncic.

Booker isn't going to be happy even if he wants Ayton now if Ayton turns out to be a soft empty stat big who doesn't defend. I'm not saying that's Ayton, just a terrifying possibility. Doncic could also bust of course.

[gaspar]

Not that this is the thread for it, but I couldn’t agree with this more. This is what I have been saying for months.

He's a better Otto Porter who peaked earlier

So he's already peaked?

Yup. Most players peak as 19 year old rookies.

[MrMiyagi]

I don't know why I participate in these threads, I always resign myself to just wanting draft night to come so I know who I'll be cheering during summer league and the season. See you gentlemen in June. If any of you still have your heads with all the banging on walls you're doing, that is.

[Mjee]

you guys think Booker/Jackson/TJ is going to be happy with McD choosing Doncic over Ayton??

I don't

I think they will be happy if they are winning.

We wont win with Bender at the 4 and Chriss/Tyson at the 5

[Phnxsports]

Both are fantastic prospects and this is a great problem to have the year the Suns get their first ever number one overall selection. There are pros and cons to both and in the end, all we can do is hope that the player the Suns select pans out.

I know its not scientific or of any real meaning but I keep coming back to the comps people throw out. If Ayton = a possible David Robinson and Luka = a possible Manu Ginobili then I am taking David Robinson over Manu every day of the year.