The One And Only Offseason Thread 4

[bwgood77]

There is good chance Bledsoe's contract sets the bar for Dragic's, which is why Bledsoe's is doubly important. If Bledsoe signs for 12, Dragic will probably not fuss about getting in the 12-13 range. If Bledsoe signs for 15, Dragic will want at least that if not closer to his max. That's an extra 6-8 million that could be necessary for us adding another important piece to take us from low seed to contender.

I agree, but I'm starting to sense Dragic may get more anyway. For one, he will be an UFA so he will likely get offers from teams who don't have to worry about tying up their cap space while we match. Also, if teams start to view him as more of a 2, than his market value will likely be higher because there are not nearly as much depth at the position. More and more teams are now beginning to go with two playmakers in the backcourt. Dallas with Ellis at the 2, us, now Utah with Burke and Exum and Orlando to an extent with Payton and Dipo (but he's probably more of a traditional 2 anyway).

[JTrain]

http://www.csnnw.com/nba/sources-suns-relationship-star-eric-bledsoe-verge-irreparable

According to league sources, an “ominous development” has arisen with sides still “very far apart” in contract negotiations. It has even escalated to the point where the “relationship is on the express lane to being ruined,” a source with knowledge of the situation informed CSNNW.com.

The Suns offered Bledsoe a four-year, $48 million deal with declining salaries each year, two sources said. That proposal was quickly turned down. Bledsoe’s camp is putting a max price tag on the player Suns Head Coach Jeff Hornacek called “a Top-10 player in the NBA in coming years”, another source said.

Phoenix has made it known publicly and repeatedly that they intend to match any offer sheets competitors issue out to Bledsoe. This tactic has succeeded in scaring away any potential suitors so far. However, the effort by the Suns to undermine Bledsoe’s market is what has angered Bledsoe and his reps and led to a standoff in which the relationship is now on the verge of being irreparable, we’re told.

**** this guy.

Wow.

[SideSwipe]

When Max contracts are signed no one ever thinks said player is worthy of it. I'd offer Dragic the max if he produced this season. Build a culture of looking after our own. That will make Phoenix a popular destination.

Not true, ever ask anyone if Lebron was worth his contract? Durant? Even Love? There is a problem in the league with guys capping out. When a team can have Lebron at the same price as Gordon Hayward (basically) there is an issue. This comes from over-regulation of salaries. If you have to regulate (debatable), I think to make this right, the league should set a standard amount of $$ that any franchise can spend altogether (Operations, Marketing, player salaries- everything) and see what teams can do within that context. Maybe something like $100 mil. All of this other business with capping out would really be diminished because you could pay Lebron the $70mil he is worth, and Hayward would still be at $15. Teams would have to constrain their other spending though, based on the marquee player they want. Cap space would mean significantly more, teams would have to look at their internal costs, and couldn't rely on external deals (tv, League-money) to use as operating capital for the team. From there bonuses should be based on the wins the team generates, with extra significant shares for playoff wins and conference championships- currently pay for performance is way too limited in this league, and that's why there are so many yoke contracts and players considered busts. Tanking would also go out the window. The better your team does, even if they don't make the playoffs, the better players, coaches, staff and everybody will do financially. Players could hold shares and be part owners in the league they are a part of, and get a dividend from those shares of league profits above and beyond their regular pay. The league does better, their dividend goes up, everybody wins. It seems it would be a better alignment of interests, vs. owner/ player relationship currently. This would also help minimize the big-market vs small market issue somewhat except for endorsement deals. This would also provide better long-term prospects for players after their playing careers are done. Dividends means payouts in perpetuity so long as the shares are held and not sold.

[bwgood77]

the website posting that story got me thinking: would a Lillard for Bledsoe trade work?

Not for Portland.

[letsgosuns]

http://www.csnnw.com/nba/sources-suns-relationship-star-eric-bledsoe-verge-irreparable

According to league sources, an “ominous development” has arisen with sides still “very far apart” in contract negotiations. It has even escalated to the point where the “relationship is on the express lane to being ruined,” a source with knowledge of the situation informed CSNNW.com.

The Suns offered Bledsoe a four-year, $48 million deal with declining salaries each year, two sources said. That proposal was quickly turned down. Bledsoe’s camp is putting a max price tag on the player Suns Head Coach Jeff Hornacek called “a Top-10 player in the NBA in coming years”, another source said.

Phoenix has made it known publicly and repeatedly that they intend to match any offer sheets competitors issue out to Bledsoe. This tactic has succeeded in scaring away any potential suitors so far. However, the effort by the Suns to undermine Bledsoe’s market is what has angered Bledsoe and his reps and led to a standoff in which the relationship is now on the verge of being irreparable, we’re told.

**** this guy.

At this point I really do not care anymore. This has dragged on for so long and his agent has not done him any favors. I also think the Phoenix Suns are never going to win the championship with a dual point guard system anyway so it does not matter. They have tried in the past and it did not work. No need to reinvent the wheel. Keep Dragic and send Bledsoe packing. Open up more playing time for Goodwin and Green. Develop the young players and hope one of them turns out to be a superstar. The organization does not need a player with an attitude like Bledsoe if this is how really feels. As many people have speculated in the past, it sounded like he never wanted to be here in the first place. He is not a franchise cornerstone player you build around. Small point that guard that plays recklessly ala Derrick Rose. Look how that has worked out so far. Not good.

[SideSwipe]

http://www.csnnw.com/nba/sources-suns-relationship-star-eric-bledsoe-verge-irreparable

According to league sources, an “ominous development” has arisen with sides still “very far apart” in contract negotiations. It has even escalated to the point where the “relationship is on the express lane to being ruined,” a source with knowledge of the situation informed CSNNW.com.

The Suns offered Bledsoe a four-year, $48 million deal with declining salaries each year, two sources said. That proposal was quickly turned down. Bledsoe’s camp is putting a max price tag on the player Suns Head Coach Jeff Hornacek called “a Top-10 player in the NBA in coming years”, another source said.

Phoenix has made it known publicly and repeatedly that they intend to match any offer sheets competitors issue out to Bledsoe. This tactic has succeeded in scaring away any potential suitors so far. However, the effort by the Suns to undermine Bledsoe’s market is what has angered Bledsoe and his reps and led to a standoff in which the relationship is now on the verge of being irreparable, we’re told.

**** this guy.

Wow.

If he doesn't like it, he is in the wrong league. He knew this was the situation going into the summer, he is being bull-headed, and doesn't want to accept that the Suns have played it well, offered a great, well-thought out supportable and tradeable contract to him. Rich Paul is giving this guy bad advice. Rich Paul should have said, you are a good player, but there a lot of other good PG's out there, so that will limit your market somewhat. Let's hear what PHX has to say, see if there are any quick deals out there for a higher price in a straight signing or S&T, and if not, let's get your deal done. He could have been sitting on a signing bonus of up to 30% of the total (keep me honest on the %) and been plugging the Suns all summer long raising his long-term value. Right now he is pulling a Dwight and being selfish, unrealistic, unsmart- or at least his agent is.

Right now Rich Paul is betting that the Suns won't want the negativity of this getting out there, but I have much more faith in Sarver/ Babby/McD in sitting this out. That said, someone better be strategizing on how to help Bledsoe save face at the end of this, to bring good will back into the equation for the team moving forward.

[PhxSunsFan1234]

LOL at Bledsoe. Hope he enjoys his $3.8 million and he better pray he plays amazing and/or doesn't get injured. If Suns start losing and not in playoff contention, wouldn't be surprised if he's in the doghouse to ruin his value and get him a small contract when he's an unrestricted FA. If teams won't overpay for him as a RFA, what makes him think they'll overpay when he can go wherever he wants.

His agent is a moron. I'd lower it to 4/$40 and if he doesn't like it, have him go the QO route. You give him a deadline to accept 4/$48 and if he declines, you offer 4/$40 and if he still declines you pull the offer, have him sign the QO and let him risk his career rather than taking $12 million a year.

43 games played and he wants a max. LOL.

[JTrain]

Not true, ever ask anyone if Lebron was worth his contract? Durant? Even Love? There is a problem in the league with guys capping out. When a team can have Lebron at the same price as Gordon Hayward (basically) there is an issue.

This comes from over-regulation of salaries. If you have to regulate (debatable), I think to make this right, the league should set a standard amount of $$ that any franchise can spend altogether (Operations, Marketing, player salaries- everything) and see what teams can do within that context. Maybe something like $100 mil.

All of this other business with capping out would really be diminished because you could pay Lebron the $70mil he is worth, and Hayward would still be at $15. Teams would have to constrain their other spending though, based on the marquee player they want. Cap space would mean significantly more, teams would have to look at their internal costs, and couldn't rely on external deals (tv, League-money) to use as operating capital for the team.

From there bonuses should be based on the wins the team generates, with extra significant shares for playoff wins and conference championships- currently pay for performance is way too limited in this league, and that's why there are so many yoke contracts and players considered busts.

Tanking would also go out the window. The better your team does, even if they don't make the playoffs, the better players, coaches, staff and everybody will do financially. Players could hold shares and be part owners in the league they are a part of, and get a dividend from those shares of league profits above and beyond their regular pay. The league does better, their dividend goes up, everybody wins. It seems it would be a better alignment of interests, vs. owner/ player relationship currently. This would also help minimize the big-market vs small market issue somewhat except for endorsement deals. This would also provide better long-term prospects for players after their playing careers are done. Dividends means payouts in perpetuity so long as the shares are held and not sold.

[JTrain]

If the relationship legitimately becomes irreparable, the Suns should definitely pull the offer and lower it to $35M. He would still be forced to take it over the QO and then you have him on a great contract and you can trade him any time a great trade option becomes available (PF or C).

[JTrain]

So I guess the whole "He's mad at the CBA, not the Suns" line was just propaganda as I suspected.

[lilfishi22]

We need to start lowering the offer weekly. If he is that stupid to take the QO, which is so low because of missing so many games, then who needs another moron on the team?

I understand the anger here, but this is not a very good negotiating tactic. The Suns need to continue to high road and leave things as they are. There are only a few misguided media types who align themselves with Bledsoe and even then they acknowledge that the Suns' offer is a reasonable market based offer for this accomplishments.

Taking $$ off the table will make the Suns appear to be bullies. Do not what this.

+1

I've been in favor of sweetening the deal to get it done but I wouldn't be opposed to leaving the deal as is on the table. It would certainly be in our rights to lower the offer but I don't think it's in any way constructive.

[Suns Court 23]

Why would be at $16? Too easy to point out that he missed half of the season for a previous injury.[b] A knee injury for a guy that lives off of his athleticism, has to play a part in this.[/b] We balked at Amare and his knees and that turned out to be the right move.

What if he thinks he is a $20 million player? 4/$48 is more than fair. No need to budge off that. Again I don't mind adding bonuses to that to make it seem like a possible 4/$52 deal or even better, but they would have to be achievement bonuses or 70+ game production bonuses.

agreed but if he is not happy at 12 then it doesn't matter for him being here.

Then he has the risky option of taking the QO, and we focus on guys that want to be here and advance us. It seems pretty simple. Add bonuses, or make the last two seasons guaranteed if 80% of the games are played. Other than that, there really seems to be no reason to move from our higher ground. Too much is riding on this contract for our future contracts.

I agree that we should only have guys that want to be here but if he takes the QO then he leaves next summer and we get significantly worse and lose him for nothing.

[Suns Court 23]

In what way is the Suns side a ridiculous demand? $12 million a year isn't ridiculous on the low side whatsoever.

But Bledsoe may complain at 12 a year. We want him for 12 and he thinks he is worth 16 so we basically should meet in the middle so everyone is happy. It might be 13 or 14 but shouldn't be any higher.

Suns can't budge first though. If Bledsoe's camp says they will do 4/52, I'd think about accepting if I were the Suns. But our FO can't move up to that number, because Bledsoe's camp could say nope, and then we are stuck there without a deal. They need to move down to something our FO live with, not the other way around.

I absolutely agree

[AtheJ415]

Absolutely not. When your employer is offering you more than any one else on the market, then there's no need to meet in the middle simply because you would like more. The player should feel valued that his team is offering more than the market to begin with.

Why is my comment thought of as "angry"?

I'm not angry, I just think if we lowered the deal slightly, every week, it will cause this to come to a close. I really don't think it makes us look like bullies. I think a 4/$46 offer is still fair for a guy that only played a half of a season, and put up less than a player on the squad making almost half his starting salary.

I just don't think adding any money would go over well for future negotiations.

Your post is not angry. The action proposed comes off that way and comes off a bullying when the other side is boxed in. I have been in many negotiations and under these circumstances, this tactic is viewed as confrontational and bullying and is used when the sides are angry.

Like it or not, if Bledsoe is to remain with the Suns, he needs to be brought back into the fold (team and community) and needs to feel as though he has accomplished something with this failed (from his part) negotiation.

I agree. This needs to be a win-win situation for both the Suns and Bledsoe. Employees need to feel valued and employers need great employees. Both sides need to step away from ridiculous demands and meet somewhere in the middle.

[JDLAW]

http://www.csnnw.com/nba/sources-suns-relationship-star-eric-bledsoe-verge-irreparable

According to league sources, an “ominous development” has arisen with sides still “very far apart” in contract negotiations. It has even escalated to the point where the “relationship is on the express lane to being ruined,” a source with knowledge of the situation informed CSNNW.com.

The Suns offered Bledsoe a four-year, $48 million deal with declining salaries each year, two sources said. That proposal was quickly turned down. Bledsoe’s camp is putting a max price tag on the player Suns Head Coach Jeff Hornacek called “a Top-10 player in the NBA in coming years”, another source said.

Phoenix has made it known publicly and repeatedly that they intend to match any offer sheets competitors issue out to Bledsoe. This tactic has succeeded in scaring away any potential suitors so far. However, the effort by the Suns to undermine Bledsoe’s market is what has angered Bledsoe and his reps and led to a standoff in which the relationship is now on the verge of being irreparable, we’re told.

**** this guy.

Wow.

Take this with a big grain of salt. Hearsay reporting of more anonymous sources who appear to be trying to stir up trouble and/or an agent who is a miserable failure as a negotiator. The Suns were not the only team that has said it would match any contract. The Jazz and the Rockets said the same thing. Detroit was more equivocal.

[JTrain]

To me, bullying is something done to the weak and helpless. Here you have two parties who are rich, successful and talented (well not sure on the last regarding Paul ). I don't call that bullying, just hardball negotiating. And as far as I can tell, Bledsoe and Co. have been playing hardball all along.

[AtheJ415]

Bledoe can't be buying this BS Rich Paul is selling. The Suns aren't being dirty by claiming to match any offer. That happens with all RFA's of any value and has for years. Utah said the same thing about Hayward and he still got a max offer. Same with Rockets and Parsons. Truth is those SFs were valued that highly in a market where SF isn't nearly as deep as PG. Bledsoe isn't worth the max given the available alternatives at his position, and so other teams aren't willing to offer it.

[lilfishi22]

According to league sources, an “ominous development” has arisen with sides still “very far apart” in contract negotiations. It has even escalated to the point where the “relationship is on the express lane to being ruined,” a source with knowledge of the situation informed CSNNW.com.

The Suns offered Bledsoe a four-year, $48 million deal with declining salaries each year, two sources said. That proposal was quickly turned down. Bledsoe’s camp is putting a max price tag on the player Suns Head Coach Jeff Hornacek called “a Top-10 player in the NBA in coming years”, another source said.

Phoenix has made it known publicly and repeatedly that they intend to match any offer sheets competitors issue out to Bledsoe. This tactic has succeeded in scaring away any potential suitors so far. However, the effort by the Suns to undermine Bledsoe’s market is what has angered Bledsoe and his reps and led to a standoff in which the relationship is now on the verge of being irreparable, we’re told.

Did we all miss this? How often do up and coming talents sign front-loaded deals?

[Sunsdeuce]

@KennyAndCrash: @DaveKingNBA Wow. Relationship close to irreparable btwn @EBled2 & @Suns? Wow. #Suns

Looking more and more like Bledsoe isn't coming back. Broken relationship between suns and him. A player that reluctantly returns will not be as effective. His mind won't be right.

I'm starting to also think other teams didn't offer him a contract more so to do with they didn't feel he was worth what he was asking rather than the suns scaring other teams off. And another reason may simply be other teams didn't want to deal with rich Paul.

As each day passes rich Paul is looking more and more like a hugely unqualified person to be an agent. Again there is more to being an agent than just negotiating contracts. I mean Bledsoe has done nothing within the phx community during the off season. That is a huge mistake. The suns FO is feeling no pressure from the phx community because the phx community was never embraced by bledsoe. Bledsoe and his buddy rich Paul are burning bridges fast.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[kburry151]

To me, bullying is something done to the weak and helpless. Here you have two parties who are rich, successful and talented (well not sure on the last regarding Paul ). I don't call that bullying, just hardball negotiating. And as far as I can tell, Bledsoe and Co. have been playing hardball all along.

First off, GO BIG RED!

I agree that this is not bullying, we are currently standing firm with our offer but I feel there is no incentive for Bledsoe's camp to get anything done quickly. I feel like we should place an expiration on the current offer and for every week that passes, we lower the per year salary by $1 mil. Throw in incentives for ASG, playoffs, and all-NBA teams to make him prove he is worth that contract. If he is as good as he thinks he is, then show it on a consistent basis. Has it really taken you and Rich Paul this long to realize that an offer from another team is not coming? Think about the image you are projecting to your fellow teammates, this "money over team" approach is so selfish, and if he ends up taking the QO I really hope other front offices take notice to this me first approach. Sign the contract and have your "agent" get you some Roomstore or Lasik commercials. I know an executive for Leslie's, you want me to hook it up Bled?

Rich Paul should not be an agent for anyone besides LeBron, and Bledsoe was clearly misguided in hiring him as his agent. Paul needs to just be shipped off to a third world country where he can't infect anyone with his stupidity and ridiculous ego. Maybe he can negotiate that a woman is worth 3 pigs instead of 2 there or something.