Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion #5: A Serving of Irving?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Update:

The Suns would've traded Bledsoe, Jackson and Miami's first round IF Kyrie Irving would've committed to an extension. However, Kyrie isn't committed to anyone at this moment.

Having said this, the Suns WILL NOT offer Jackson for Irving under any circumstances. That's part of the issue as to why every team is low balling for Irving.

* and by agreing to an extension, they mean giving his word which he isn't.

That makes me sick to read.
I'm a little confused. Are you saying we would have before the draft, had he committed? But now that we have Jackson, we won't?
Seeing as 'any circumstance' would technically include if he committed.

I think if Jackson would have been picked by the Celtics, the Draft Day trade would have been done. But since it didn't and the Cavs FO was in flux, they still think that they (LBJ) can get Bledsoe and Jackson for Kyrie. Since Kyrie's trade request has been made public, the Suns have leverage to lowball the Cavs. I doubt that even if Kyrie gives the Suns a verbal promise to commit longterm, they would still trade Jackson to get him.

This is what I have concluded, as well. I said before the draft that I would understand if we decided to trade the pick. I think they got lucky with Jackson. I think Jackson will be better than Kyrie. Accordingly, I don't think it matters very much anymore whether we trade for Kyrie. ... Which is a great position to be in, considering our leverage. Kyrie could go wherever. Happy to trade Bledsoe for reasonable value.

If the Cavs can get Beverley and Jordan for Kyrie, I prefer this trade: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yckom7km . I would try to move Thompson to a third team and attempt to extract a draft pick from someone. I would take a protected pick from each team, if it's on offer.

[bwgood77]

If the concern he could leave in two years - which is viable - make it a three team deal with the Knicks. But the Knicks have to come up with the draft picks - like 2018 unprotected and a 2020

Knicks: Kyrie -- seems he would love MSG plus Millsap and Derric Jones

Cavs: Bledsoe Dudley or chandler, cap filler like Randle Hermangomez from the Knicks plus Knicks picks

Suns: Frank N, Lance Thomas,expirings in Frye Jefferson and Kuzminkas

So for the Suns its trading Bledsoe for Frank N and Lance Thomas

For the Cavs: Irving for Bledsoe, a veteran in Dudley and picks from the Knicks - and cap space as the Suns are taking on Frye and RJ

I was thinking about this too last night and was typing up a post to where Knicks gave up two picks to them, and we gave up Bledsoe, and Knicks got Kyrie and we got Frank. I didn't put a lot of thought in it but it didn't seem like the Knicks could clear out enough salary for such trade to take place. And if we took on salaries, it seems lopsided and not in our favor unless we got a pick too. Doesn't seem to work.

[Villalobos]

I mentioned the idea/rumor to Gambo that had Kyrie committed, the Suns were going to trade Jackson in the deal.
He responded quickly saying "Totally not true"

Dunno if he has actual sources, but I don't buy it either. A verbal commitment means absolutely nothing, let alone one made two years in advance. CP3 and the Clippers verbally agreed on a five year max and then a few months later he decided to go to Houston.

[Puff]

lol at anyone who takes ray ray's posts seriously

Ray Ray has good info

In all due respect.

How do you know that?

He has been wrong on multiple issues, just like the rest of us.

What trade has he got right in recent memory? I really do not know of any.

Just trying to keep it real.

[TeamTragic]

lol at anyone who takes ray ray's posts seriously

Ray Ray has good info

In all due respect.

How do you know that?

He has been wrong on multiple issues, just like the rest of us.

What trade has he got right in recent memory? I really do not know of any.

Just trying to keep it real.

Ray Ray has details about potential/discussed trades. I'm glad that he posts on this board.

If you want bombshells then follow Woj. Otherwise consider them rumors.

[BobbieL]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/02/report-kyrie-irving-not-ready-to-commit-to-any-team-that-trades-for-him/

I still say 95% he bolts. Pass.

By contrast, if Irving plays out his contract then opts out in 2019, his max salary projects to be about $188 million over five years ($38 million annually)

Woah

Here is the original source for the "not commit" part, and it also talks about various other teams and potential deals.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/08/cleveland_cavaliers_scribbles_64.html

Bledsoe will be paid in a couple years - probably 150/5

so Irving is not that much more really - but its not my money

Sarver might be thinking Frank N

[Puff]

Ray Ray has good info

In all due respect.

How do you know that?

He has been wrong on multiple issues, just like the rest of us.

What trade has he got right in recent memory? I really do not know of any.

Just trying to keep it real.

Ray Ray has details about potential/discussed trades. It helps this board better understand what is going on behind the scenes.

If you want bombshells then follow Woj. Otherwise just take it as a rumor.

I am not being a dick about anything. You are being a dick.

I just don't see ray ray as some super hero, like some of you do.

I enjoy his posts but in no way shape or form do I think he has more info than what we get from many other sources.

Just answer my question.

What trade has he predicted correctly in recent memory?

Oh, you can't.

Let's just move on.

[Fo-Real]

Just saying, dont be shocked if there is a trade and its Bender instead of Chriss that goes out. Earl seems to really like Chriss and there have been several occasions that he mentions our young talent and leaves Benders name out. I know everyone and their mother on this board are adamant about the fact that Bender is god and his ceiling is the higher of the two, but we dont know how the front office value each in what order. Can say that Chriss was the starter at Pf.

[Jarlaxle0204]

Since we're in a holding pattern here I'll just reiterate what I would not consider trading:

Booker
Jackson
Bender
Our pick unless top 7 protected (and I might not even consider trading that)
Heat pick in 2021

Otherwise I'm ok with moving a combination of our assets for Irving. Have to roll the dice at some point.

[bwgood77]

I just have a problem having Irving for two years versus Bledsoe for 2, Jackson for 8-9, and a high 1st round pick for 8-9. Really we saw Dwight screw over the Lakers and we've tasted this **** before with McDyess. Bledose and Miami 2018 1st and maybe, maybe a second round pick. Otherwise stand pat.

McDyess keeps popping in my head too. What a disaster that was. And that's when we were good and really had a solid reputation as a place to play.

Yup, that was awful. And then we went out and spent 60 million on Gugliotta who couldn't stay healthy.

And I think like $35 million on Longley when we could have signed Vlade at the time for like 3/10 or something.

[Fo-Real]

In all due respect.

How do you know that?

He has been wrong on multiple issues, just like the rest of us.

What trade has he got right in recent memory? I really do not know of any.

Just trying to keep it real.

Ray Ray has details about potential/discussed trades. It helps this board better understand what is going on behind the scenes.

If you want bombshells then follow Woj. Otherwise just take it as a rumor.

I am not being a dick about anything. You are being a dick.

I just don't see ray ray as some super hero, like some of you do.

I enjoy his posts but in no way shape or form do I think he has more info than what we get from many other sources.

Just answer my question.

What trade has he predicted correctly in recent memory?

Oh, you can't.

Let's just move on.

To some of us, Rays posts are comforting. Dont know if he is legit, but some of us really like when he chimes in on what he says he has heard. Its annoying to hear people complain about it. In his posts he gives info and also tells of fluid situations, never "hey, this is what is about to happen", just this is the subject of conversation with the team. Things evolve and some dont, not keeping score, but I appreciate his posts and hate reading people attacking anyone over this dumb ****.

[AtheJ415]

Spoiler:

Last year, I watched a team with a clear tanking agenda towards the end. A team that was forced to start a 19YO Rookie PF; and a team that suffered from losing a player on a hot streak (Warren), that took until the last couple of weeks of the season for him to find his groove again.

I'm saying that the Suns have as good a chance with Kyrie, a 3rd-year-Booker, a Josh Jackson that looks NBA-ready through Summer League, a healthy Warren, and a newly discovered talent in Alan Williams, that will surely earn more minutes than last year, but will still have a pretty darn good Chandler.


[/color]
And Gasol vs Chandler is not as open shut as you may think, nor Conley vs Bledsoe/Kyrie

http://bkref.com/tiny/fJTp1

[/color]
So, the original poster's point was basically, their are at least 2 playoff slort up for grab, and we are not as far behind as 'Vegas', or anyone else would have you believe, and as I've shown, we certainly are not 5-7 years behind in age to other teams, nomater which way you try to spin it. If nothing happens, we have starting (and yes, these are ages for the propensity of the season, not right now, which makes more sense, don't you think??):

Bledoe - 28
Booker - 21
Warren - 24
Chriss - 20
Chandler - 35

And THEN...we have other players that will play some...

Bender - 20
Jones Jr. - 20
Jackson - 20
Ulis - 21
Reed - 22
Peters -22
??Len?? - 24
Sauce - 24
Dudley - 32

We have some young players; no one is denying that, but since we brought them IN young, doesn't mean that they are inexperienced. You are confusing Age w/ Experience.

Experience is a horrible way to judge NBA guys. -- Really? So a 22YO Player like Davon Reed is more ready and a better player than a 21YO Ulis? OK, if you say so...


It's as if a rookie from Europe is inexperienced because they were playing in Europe for years or a 4 year college vet is inexperienced despite playing 4 years of college hoops. I am not confusing age with experience. Both matter, but experienced young players still bomb in this league. Age is more the key than experience. It is statistically proven. Also, the age of the entire roster matters--not just the random 3 players that you seem to feel matters on each team, which happens to include some players who aren't even on said team and has role players galore included.

Also, I'll just ignore your prior rant of having ONLY one 19 year old while having 4 20 year olds (again, Booker is 20, not 21).

Bledsoe won't be on the team if the trade happens, so no idea why you are including him, -- and I have no idea why you continue to assume we are trading Bledsoe for 'air'...we get Kyrie back in that deal, you know, which will change the odds makers in Vegas, BTW.

just like I have no idea how you are determining those awful groups of 3 from the prior message, many of whom ignore all-star level players for younger role players.

Hell, that roster you showed for Phoenix above without Bled has a whopping TWO PLAYERS over 25. -- THREE PLAYERS, we also have Elijah Milsap, who I didn't list.

The rest of the contenders aren't that young. It is that simple. -- But we are not 5-7 years younger, as you hyperbolized in your original statement. It's that simple.


To expect contention is insane, and Vegas proves that as much as anybody, and they think we are the 2nd worst team in the NBA with Bled headed to the season. If you truly believe what you are saying, I assume you are dropping tons of money on Phx already. -- See, now you are just being silly. I do think we have the ABILITY to compete for that 8th spot, IF we trade for Kyrie.

Kyrie
Booker
Jackson
Warren
Chandler

That looks a lot better than you think, especially when you consider our bench of Bender, Ulis, Sauce, and Dudley.


Last year, you saw a team tank that was out of contention and already in the bottom 5 before tanking. Yes, Warren got hurt--every team has a player get hurt.

I will just leave the Marc Gasol v. Chandler (as if one isn't an All-Star who added a 3 point shot and the other isn't an overpaid wasting big who can no longer defend), to some emojis. -- I like how you compare the two based upon ONE aspect of their game; must be how you get the whole "Bledsoe-for-Air" trade...

[matt131]

I feel like the longer this goes the less likely a trade happens before the season. Fewer teams will be eager to pay a big price for someone unwilling to commit. Cavs will realize they aren't getting any value. At the trade deadline, there will more likely be a team that needs a slight push to either make the playoffs or get better seeding and will decide to mortgage their future for a win-now type move and throw picks at the Cavs. That's just my opinion. I would rather this be settled sooner than later so our entire team can focus on the season without the thought of a big trade on their mind.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[bwgood77]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/02/report-kyrie-irving-not-ready-to-commit-to-any-team-that-trades-for-him/

I still say 95% he bolts. Pass.

By contrast, if Irving plays out his contract then opts out in 2019, his max salary projects to be about $188 million over five years ($38 million annually)

Woah

Here is the original source for the "not commit" part, and it also talks about various other teams and potential deals.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/08/cleveland_cavaliers_scribbles_64.html

Bledsoe will be paid in a couple years - probably 150/5

so Irving is not that much more really - but its not my money

Sarver might be thinking Frank N

I don't really want to keep Bledsoe at that price either, but if we wanted to, we probably could because I think he wants to be here. I'd rather have Kyrie than Bledsoe if it didn't cost a bunch of assets and he'd be here longer than two years.

[bwgood77]

In all due respect.

How do you know that?

He has been wrong on multiple issues, just like the rest of us.

What trade has he got right in recent memory? I really do not know of any.

Just trying to keep it real.

Ray Ray has details about potential/discussed trades. It helps this board better understand what is going on behind the scenes.

If you want bombshells then follow Woj. Otherwise just take it as a rumor.

I am not being a dick about anything. You are being a dick.

I just don't see ray ray as some super hero, like some of you do.

I enjoy his posts but in no way shape or form do I think he has more info than what we get from many other sources.

Just answer my question.

What trade has he predicted correctly in recent memory?

Oh, you can't.

Let's just move on.

C'mon, we don't need to start calling people names. Some people take ray ray's posts as gospel. More power to em.

[bwgood77]

Just saying, dont be shocked if there is a trade and its Bender instead of Chriss that goes out. Earl seems to really like Chriss and there have been several occasions that he mentions our young talent and leaves Benders name out. I know everyone and their mother on this board are adamant about the fact that Bender is god and his ceiling is the higher of the two, but we dont know how the front office value each in what order. Can say that Chriss was the starter at Pf.

Oh, I think they'd definitely rather trade Bender. I just don't think he has as much trade value considering he didn't play much and was injured while Chriss was showcased.

[BucksPackers]

Bucks fan here.

Would you consider this package....

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9n2fzfd

Milwaukee gets: Frye, Love, D Murray
Milwaukee gives: Parker, Henson, Delly, Monroe

Lineup: Brog, Mids, Giannis, Love, Thon

Cavs get: LA, Monroe, Bledsoe, lotto protect 2018 first from the spurs and suns 2018 heat first round pick
Cavs give: Love, Frye, Kyrie

Lineup: Bledsoe, JR, Bron, LA, Monroe/TT

Suns get: Parker, Henson
Suns give: Bledsoe, 2018 heat pick

Lineup: Doesn't change but add Parker to their young core

Spurs get: Kyrie, Delly
Spurs give: LA, Murray and 2018 first lotto protected

Lineup: Kyrie, Green, Gay,Kahwi, Pau

This would help out all teams............

[JMac1]

Simple for me. I'm done with Kyrie. I don't want any of that player drama that is caused by speculation. Dealing with two yeas of what Kyrie is going to do and kissing his ass isn't on my agenda. Keep players that want to be here and move on. They ain't **** if they won't commit.

Edit:see GS. They don't deal with all of that me crap and who is going where when garbage. They are a team and they aren't splitting up. They get attention by winning, not talking about who might be leaving....

[JMac1]

Bucks fan here.

Would you consider this package....

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9n2fzfd

Milwaukee gets: Frye, Love, D Murray
Milwaukee gives: Parker, Henson, Delly, Monroe

Lineup: Brog, Mids, Giannis, Love, Thon

Cavs get: LA, Monroe, Bledsoe, lotto protect 2018 first from the spurs and suns 2018 heat first round pick
Cavs give: Love, Frye, Kyrie

Lineup: Bledsoe, JR, Bron, LA, Monroe/TT

Suns get: Parker, Henson
Suns give: Bledsoe, 2018 heat pick

Lineup: Doesn't change but add Parker to their young core

Spurs get: Kyrie, Delly
Spurs give: LA, Murray and 2018 first lotto protected

Lineup: Kyrie, Green, Gay,Kahwi, Pau

This would help out all teams............

No! I don't want any injured players...Amare and Bledsoe gave me enough of that.

[JJ13]

Simple for me. I'm done with Kyrie. I don't want any of that player drama that is caused by speculation. Dealing with two yeas of what Kyrie is going to do and kissing his ass isn't on my agenda. Keep players that want to be here and move on. They ain't **** if they won't commit.

Edit:see GS. They don't deal with all of that me crap and who is going where when garbage. They are a team and they aren't splitting up. They get attention by winning, not talking about who might be leaving....

Part of the reason Kyrie wants a trade is because of all the "me" stuff around Lebron. He does not want that anymore. Any he's not committing anywhere because he makes $50MM+ more by waiting. This is not that complicated or dramatic.