Trade and free agency speculation

[jredsaz]

its certainly better than this year and a number of teams will blow a lot of that cap space this year, considering we have a 0 percent chance at any of the top free agents this year and their is a massive drop off after them. I dont even think most of the FA after the top 5 to 7 are starting caliber players this year.

I'm not saying use the space on a substandard free agent. However, looking to use our asset (cap space) while it is still valuable may be a good play. I didn't realize the number of teams with possible max space available. Trades work too. Just saying I have reevaluated my thinking some.

2019 has a lot more options at our positions of need, and with guys who make sense given their ages. We also could get 1 max guy and a 2nd near max if we managed the cap right and Book extends after. I realize many don't believe we would fair well in FA, but Phx historically has and most recently didn't want to come here to play with our awful roster post-Nash. I mean, go look at that roster for everyone here who thinks McDonough has been a disaster. That roster's best players were Gortat and Dudley and neither lit the world on fire when we moved them.

With Ayton, Booker, Jackson, Bridges, we have a good core and finally a respected coach. We should up our wins on the year to finish still out of the playoffs but probably like the 8th worst team instead of dead last, which will show max level FAs that they can step in and make the playoffs year 1 or 2 with a chance to contend as those players finally hit their primes and stay in them for like a decade due to their youth.

We can also sell the 2nd near max slot to pair them with someone. It isn't a bad selling spot at all, and is a lot better than the scenarios we've had in the recent past with star FAs.

Point being, increased competition shouldn't be a reason to avoid FA. Any time you go for a better player, either through trade, through tanking for the draft, through free agency, you face increased competition. That is just how life is. We should at least try to maximize our potential, and that potential is highest with Book putting his damn extension off for 1 season so we can try to make it rain next offseason for guys who are ideal fits instead of "nice to have" guys who are incomplete, partial solutions like the Marcus freaking Smarts of the world, who frankly probably isn't even a top 30 PG in this league.

Maximizing potential is all about maximizing opportunity. Having space right now in a league where space is limited is a massive opportunity. Top free agents have not found Phoenix overly appealing in the past, good Suns teams or bad. Book isn't passing up the extension. Suns shouldnt do something stupid like sign Smart but not using this space just because next summer has better free agents isn't smart. They should remain open to a variety of opportunities.

[Revived]

I think because he missed a whole season, some people have short term amnesia and forgot exactly how awful of a basketball player Brandon Knight was.

I’ve never seen it in my lifetime where a horrible basketball player suffers an ACL injury and then becomes better afterwards.

But that’s just me...

[bwgood77]

Van Fleeon a 4/50 contract could be an excellent asset in a Lillard or CJ trade in the future. Man, he may be the best option and the most gettable rfa due to the raps cap situation.

I don't think it will take that to get him. He was a really good backup next year but is unproven as a starter. I think 4/34 is as high as I would go. Also, he may sign for less to come here where he could start. Though it likely depends on how movable Lowry is. He may prefer to stay in Toronto if they guarantee they will move Lowry since he would easily start at that point.

Oh - meant to type 4/40.

VanVleet is great but that is probably a bit much for my taste.

[AtheJ415]

Payton is better than Van Vleet overall... When he's focused and not being lazy.

that means a lot and is why PJ Tucker is currently making about 8x that of Michael Beasley

It does. Winning makes players play harder ... It should not have to be that way but sadly that's what happens.

But my point is Van Vleet is not my ideal PG...

I rather someone cranked up defensively like Smart... Or someone who can be versatile like Exum.... Or someone who can do a bit of shooting and defending like Beverly.



Van Vleet is someone who is 3rd string on teams with good guards... He's not even better than Mills. Advance stats or not... I don't think he's worth chasing as a rotation PG.

He is drastically better than Mills. It is beyond obvious you either didn't watch him play this year or simply don't care to look at anything but the raw stats. I can agree that he's not the ideal PG. Ideally we'd be working out a trade for Damian Lillard or Steph Curry, but he is a much better option than Smart and arguably even Bev.

And the stats do matter. They, along with viewing him play, explain how good he played last season. You just want to ignore them entirely, which is fine, but just know that Van Vleet was better last year than every player you listed, including Smart, Bev, and Mills.

[AtheJ415]

I'm not saying use the space on a substandard free agent. However, looking to use our asset (cap space) while it is still valuable may be a good play. I didn't realize the number of teams with possible max space available. Trades work too. Just saying I have reevaluated my thinking some.

2019 has a lot more options at our positions of need, and with guys who make sense given their ages. We also could get 1 max guy and a 2nd near max if we managed the cap right and Book extends after. I realize many don't believe we would fair well in FA, but Phx historically has and most recently didn't want to come here to play with our awful roster post-Nash. I mean, go look at that roster for everyone here who thinks McDonough has been a disaster. That roster's best players were Gortat and Dudley and neither lit the world on fire when we moved them.

With Ayton, Booker, Jackson, Bridges, we have a good core and finally a respected coach. We should up our wins on the year to finish still out of the playoffs but probably like the 8th worst team instead of dead last, which will show max level FAs that they can step in and make the playoffs year 1 or 2 with a chance to contend as those players finally hit their primes and stay in them for like a decade due to their youth.

We can also sell the 2nd near max slot to pair them with someone. It isn't a bad selling spot at all, and is a lot better than the scenarios we've had in the recent past with star FAs.

Point being, increased competition shouldn't be a reason to avoid FA. Any time you go for a better player, either through trade, through tanking for the draft, through free agency, you face increased competition. That is just how life is. We should at least try to maximize our potential, and that potential is highest with Book putting his damn extension off for 1 season so we can try to make it rain next offseason for guys who are ideal fits instead of "nice to have" guys who are incomplete, partial solutions like the Marcus freaking Smarts of the world, who frankly probably isn't even a top 30 PG in this league.

Maximizing potential is all about maximizing opportunity. Having space right now in a league where space is limited is a massive opportunity. Top free agents have not found Phoenix overly appealing in the past, good Suns teams or bad. Book isn't passing up the extension. Suns shouldnt do something stupid like sign Smart but not using this space just because next summer has better free agents isn't smart. They should remain open to a variety of opportunities.

Opportunity for who exactly? Because since we aren't good enough right now to get Lebron or Paul or PG13, then who? Yes, it's a great time to overpay for Trevor Ariza, but is that really better than a smaller opportunity at getting the plethora of 1s, combo guards, and PFs that are FA next offseason?

The guys who fit opportunity are Cousins, who is coming off a major injury and is best at C where we just drafted Ayton, and then probably guys like Gordon. I don't know that guaranteeing getting him is so valuable that we would pass on the chance to get some of the guys available next offseason.

[bwgood77]

its certainly better than this year and a number of teams will blow a lot of that cap space this year, considering we have a 0 percent chance at any of the top free agents this year and their is a massive drop off after them. I dont even think most of the FA after the top 5 to 7 are starting caliber players this year.

I'm not saying use the space on a substandard free agent. However, looking to use our asset (cap space) while it is still valuable may be a good play. I didn't realize the number of teams with possible max space available. Trades work too. Just saying I have reevaluated my thinking some.

2019 has a lot more options at our positions of need, and with guys who make sense given their ages. We also could get 1 max guy and a 2nd near max if we managed the cap right and Book extends after. I realize many don't believe we would fair well in FA, but Phx historically has and most recently didn't want to come here to play with our awful roster post-Nash. I mean, go look at that roster for everyone here who thinks McDonough has been a disaster. That roster's best players were Gortat and Dudley and neither lit the world on fire when we moved them.

With Ayton, Booker, Jackson, Bridges, we have a good core and finally a respected coach. We should up our wins on the year to finish still out of the playoffs but probably like the 8th worst team instead of dead last, which will show max level FAs that they can step in and make the playoffs year 1 or 2 with a chance to contend as those players finally hit their primes and stay in them for like a decade due to their youth.

We can also sell the 2nd near max slot to pair them with someone. It isn't a bad selling spot at all, and is a lot better than the scenarios we've had in the recent past with star FAs.

Point being, increased competition shouldn't be a reason to avoid FA. Any time you go for a better player, either through trade, through tanking for the draft, through free agency, you face increased competition. That is just how life is. We should at least try to maximize our potential, and that potential is highest with Book putting his damn extension off for 1 season so we can try to make it rain next offseason for guys who are ideal fits instead of "nice to have" guys who are incomplete, partial solutions like the Marcus freaking Smarts of the world, who frankly probably isn't even a top 30 PG in this league.

I agree, but the point is we just have to wait and see what the FO does. My guess is they give him the extension. I don't know if you have worked through numbers but if we sign anyone this summer past one year that kills any possibility of a near 2nd max guy in 19...not even sure we could get near second max anyway without somehow discarding players that are still under contract for zero salaries taken back..guys like Chriss and Bender, and I don't think that is what you want to do.

If we give him an extension AND don't sign anyone past one year, we can maybe get near one max in 19 bu that would require stretching Knight (or trading him for nothing which would open a lot more but would cost a likely first round pick) or shedding a few guys like Chriss/Bender/Warren for no salary return...all of this is difficult without many teams having cap space.

I like your ideals but we simply have to observe what the FO will do and my guess is we will end up not having much for money in 19. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but we will see.

[lilfishi22]

Why does it seem like everyone is so excited to throw dollars at a terrible free agent class? We don't want to sign guys to just sign guys. None of these players being discussed move the needle enough for me to go nuts throwing money at em.

We can't run with players who probably should be end of the bunch guys A guaranteed Ulis? A returning Knight? AN entirely unproven Okobo and Shaq? Nothing wrong with giving a guy like VanVleet a 2yr deal. We still want to compete and get better and you can't do that with the players we currently have manning that PG position.

Just me but I'd rather save the dollars and give the reigns to Knight then someone like Van who hasn't proven anything and it's 100% projection

Over someone who has proven they are terrible?

[Revived]

Per CBA rules, Van Vleet can’t make more than $9M/yr for first two years of his next deal

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1671365&start=120#p67030589

[bwoolf2]

We can't run with players who probably should be end of the bunch guys A guaranteed Ulis? A returning Knight? AN entirely unproven Okobo and Shaq? Nothing wrong with giving a guy like VanVleet a 2yr deal. We still want to compete and get better and you can't do that with the players we currently have manning that PG position.

Just me but I'd rather save the dollars and give the reigns to Knight then someone like Van who hasn't proven anything and it's 100% projection

Over someone who has proven they are terrible?

he was pretty good for the Bucks before he got traded and put in a terrible situation with a terrible coach. not saying he recovers but he certainly was better than van fleet prior to getting screwed.

[AtheJ415]

I'm not saying use the space on a substandard free agent. However, looking to use our asset (cap space) while it is still valuable may be a good play. I didn't realize the number of teams with possible max space available. Trades work too. Just saying I have reevaluated my thinking some.

2019 has a lot more options at our positions of need, and with guys who make sense given their ages. We also could get 1 max guy and a 2nd near max if we managed the cap right and Book extends after. I realize many don't believe we would fair well in FA, but Phx historically has and most recently didn't want to come here to play with our awful roster post-Nash. I mean, go look at that roster for everyone here who thinks McDonough has been a disaster. That roster's best players were Gortat and Dudley and neither lit the world on fire when we moved them.

With Ayton, Booker, Jackson, Bridges, we have a good core and finally a respected coach. We should up our wins on the year to finish still out of the playoffs but probably like the 8th worst team instead of dead last, which will show max level FAs that they can step in and make the playoffs year 1 or 2 with a chance to contend as those players finally hit their primes and stay in them for like a decade due to their youth.

We can also sell the 2nd near max slot to pair them with someone. It isn't a bad selling spot at all, and is a lot better than the scenarios we've had in the recent past with star FAs.

Point being, increased competition shouldn't be a reason to avoid FA. Any time you go for a better player, either through trade, through tanking for the draft, through free agency, you face increased competition. That is just how life is. We should at least try to maximize our potential, and that potential is highest with Book putting his damn extension off for 1 season so we can try to make it rain next offseason for guys who are ideal fits instead of "nice to have" guys who are incomplete, partial solutions like the Marcus freaking Smarts of the world, who frankly probably isn't even a top 30 PG in this league.

I agree, but the point is we just have to wait and see what the FO does. My guess is they give him the extension. I don't know if you have worked through numbers but if we sign anyone this summer past one year that kills any possibility of a near 2nd max guy in 19...not even sure we could get near second max anyway without somehow discarding players that are still under contract for zero salaries taken back..guys like Chriss and Bender, and I don't think that is what you want to do.

If we give him an extension AND don't sign anyone past one year, we can maybe get near one max in 19 bu that would require stretching Knight (or trading him for nothing which would open a lot more but would cost a likely first round pick) or shedding a few guys like Chriss/Bender/Warren for no salary return...all of this is difficult without many teams having cap space.

I like your ideals but we simply have to observe what the FO will do and my guess is we will end up not having much for money in 19. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but we will see.

I specifically said 1 max and a 2nd near max. It would be tougher to get a 2nd but it depends on how they qualify anyways (are they rookie extension max, super max, etc). We could get to 1 with Booker waiting. I am not sure we can get to even 1 if Book doesn't wait and the FO acts as expected this offseason. I am not somebody who would be happy giving up a max worthy guy in next year's class for some combination of an Aaron Gordon and a middling vet PG like Marcus Smart.

[jredsaz]

I don't think it will take that to get him. He was a really good backup next year but is unproven as a starter. I think 4/34 is as high as I would go. Also, he may sign for less to come here where he could start. Though it likely depends on how movable Lowry is. He may prefer to stay in Toronto if they guarantee they will move Lowry since he would easily start at that point.

Oh - meant to type 4/40.

VanVleet is great but that is probably a bit much for my taste.

It is. Probably way too much tbh. Lol. He is a good player but his size dictates a bench role. Probably too out around the mid level, like AtotheJ said. In retro spect that was not my be gauge of value

[AtheJ415]

And just to clarify, while I like Van Vleet relative to many of the options, I would rather wait for a true needlemover in the sense of a star PG or semi-star in FA or via trade on a reasonable deal. Thus, I am happy rolling into next season with Knight or even bringing back Payton. I do want to see Okobo get some minutes as the 3rd string guy at the start and move into the 2nd string guy by year's end.

Also, I would look at combo guards as well since Book has shown he can create offense consistently for others. Thus, if CJ McCollum or somebody like that became available I would go for it as well. We don't want Book getting worn out bringing the ball up the court, but having him and Jackson and even a guy like Bender if he's at the 5 capable of bringing the ball up should give us the opportunity to target the best combo guard or PG available.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[lilfishi22]

Just me but I'd rather save the dollars and give the reigns to Knight then someone like Van who hasn't proven anything and it's 100% projection

Over someone who has proven they are terrible?

he was pretty good for the Bucks before he got traded and put in a terrible situation with a terrible coach. not saying he recovers but he certainly was better than van fleet prior to getting screwed.

I think bw has gone over this ad nauseam but he wasn't good even in his 'career year' with the Bucks.

[AtheJ415]

Read on Twitter

Bev makes the most sense for a team in our position, but since they just traded Rivers, I think the odds of them dealing him are much smaller. Though since Deandre is likely moved maybe they bring another guard in the trade and will move Bev.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Bev makes the most sense for a team in our position, but since they just traded Rivers, I think the odds of them dealing him are much smaller. Though since Deandre is likely moved maybe they bring another guard in the trade and will move Bev.

They just drafted two guards in the lottery and will probably just build with them and start them.

[AtheJ415]

Read on Twitter

Bev makes the most sense for a team in our position, but since they just traded Rivers, I think the odds of them dealing him are much smaller. Though since Deandre is likely moved maybe they bring another guard in the trade and will move Bev.

They just drafted two guards in the lottery and will probably just build with them and start them.

Oh yeah. I forgot they hilariously took Jerome right after Shai with good forwards on the board. Well, hell, I'd offer them Sauce. They may need the cap savings to make the Deandre deal work. Or a protected 2nd (until it falls beyond pick 35).

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Bev makes the most sense for a team in our position, but since they just traded Rivers, I think the odds of them dealing him are much smaller. Though since Deandre is likely moved maybe they bring another guard in the trade and will move Bev.

They just drafted two guards in the lottery and will probably just build with them and start them.

Yeah I'm not sure how much appetite they have to move Bev, especially for cents on the dollar which is what we're hoping to get him for. He would be ideal though. He's a guy like PJ who'll play hard during games and in practice and will push our guards and even our wings.

[bwgood77]

2019 has a lot more options at our positions of need, and with guys who make sense given their ages. We also could get 1 max guy and a 2nd near max if we managed the cap right and Book extends after. I realize many don't believe we would fair well in FA, but Phx historically has and most recently didn't want to come here to play with our awful roster post-Nash. I mean, go look at that roster for everyone here who thinks McDonough has been a disaster. That roster's best players were Gortat and Dudley and neither lit the world on fire when we moved them.

With Ayton, Booker, Jackson, Bridges, we have a good core and finally a respected coach. We should up our wins on the year to finish still out of the playoffs but probably like the 8th worst team instead of dead last, which will show max level FAs that they can step in and make the playoffs year 1 or 2 with a chance to contend as those players finally hit their primes and stay in them for like a decade due to their youth.

We can also sell the 2nd near max slot to pair them with someone. It isn't a bad selling spot at all, and is a lot better than the scenarios we've had in the recent past with star FAs.

Point being, increased competition shouldn't be a reason to avoid FA. Any time you go for a better player, either through trade, through tanking for the draft, through free agency, you face increased competition. That is just how life is. We should at least try to maximize our potential, and that potential is highest with Book putting his damn extension off for 1 season so we can try to make it rain next offseason for guys who are ideal fits instead of "nice to have" guys who are incomplete, partial solutions like the Marcus freaking Smarts of the world, who frankly probably isn't even a top 30 PG in this league.

I agree, but the point is we just have to wait and see what the FO does. My guess is they give him the extension. I don't know if you have worked through numbers but if we sign anyone this summer past one year that kills any possibility of a near 2nd max guy in 19...not even sure we could get near second max anyway without somehow discarding players that are still under contract for zero salaries taken back..guys like Chriss and Bender, and I don't think that is what you want to do.

If we give him an extension AND don't sign anyone past one year, we can maybe get near one max in 19 bu that would require stretching Knight (or trading him for nothing which would open a lot more but would cost a likely first round pick) or shedding a few guys like Chriss/Bender/Warren for no salary return...all of this is difficult without many teams having cap space.

I like your ideals but we simply have to observe what the FO will do and my guess is we will end up not having much for money in 19. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but we will see.

I specifically said 1 max and a 2nd near max. It would be tougher to get a 2nd but it depends on how they qualify anyways (are they rookie extension max, super max, etc). We could get to 1 with Booker waiting. I am not sure we can get to even 1 if Book doesn't wait and the FO acts as expected this offseason. I am not somebody who would be happy giving up a max worthy guy in next year's class for some combination of an Aaron Gordon and a middling vet PG like Marcus Smart.

I worked out the cap once if Booker extends and at that point we could have maybe gotten to $20 million or so if we stretch Knight and let all non guaranteed guys go and don't sign anyone past one year. But that was based on like the 4th pick and 16th pick at the time, so moving those picks to 1 and 10 it will eat into it. The only way to build it back up (I only left core players on calculation) would be to dump or not pick up team options on Chriss or Bender or trade a guy like Warren for no incoming salary. Just off the top of my head, if he extends, we will likely be at like $15 million with no new contracts that extend more than one year this offseason and getting rid of all guys that are not guaranteed. I just have a feel McD is going to give him that extension and sign a guy longer than a year leaving us with little to nothing next year.

I do agree about what we SHOULD do though.

McD is just too much under the gun so he said he will make moves..if he signs one year deals and convinces Booker to wait that would be a very astute move, but I don't expect it.

[Kerrsed]

I rather someone cranked up defensively like Smart... Or someone who can be versatile like Exum.... Or someone who can do a bit of shooting and defending like Beverly.

VanVleet is damn near the same defensively as Smart (106 vs. 104) and yet 2 times as good offensively.

PatBev? Love him, but VanVleet was a better defender and better shooter than Pat.

Besides all that, VanVleet is the advance stats king when it comes to all these PG's who's names are being thrown around.