Saberestar wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Saberestar wrote:Lavine is worse on defense, not even close.
And then he has a lower basketball IQ, it's pretty obvious that he has serious problems understanding the game at the highest level.
Yeah, I mentioned the defense where Booker has improved. That's where he beats him, though he loses in 3pt shooting and efficiency, and athleticism. Probably IQ too. Not probably a strength for either though, but of course with Booker being around Paul so much that has helped a great deal. People speak highly about how it seems he's a vet though and a baller. Than Zach has the athleticism.
I'd take Booker but I think Zach has a pretty good case to make it. Their team is very competitive and he puts up almost identical #s to Book with better shooting. I don't think defense is a driving force to make those anyway. I mean as much as Book has improved he's not making it with people thinking about defense. I expect Book to get on for sure though with Paul out and Zach is borderline for two reasons...DeRozan probably gets it if only one makes it on and they only want to put one on and he is borderline with the others.
I don't know why you don't think he''s close. I'd probably put him ahead of the others I mentioned last with the exception of maybe Trae who is on a borderline playoff team and currently has a losing record. I'd put him ahead of FVV and Mitchell and probably due to Harden given games played. I think he's better than Harden at this point anyway. Harden is just an expert at baiting people into fouling him. If he didn't do that his efficiency wouldn't be very good.
Interesting though...this has Paul and Mitchell as 3rd team and no Booker (or LaVine).
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2953933-predicting-2022-all-nba-first-second-third-teams
Lavine doesn't score from everywhere as well as Book does ...do you imagine Lavine in the post scoring with a variety of moves?
His mid-range game is not on Booker's level neither. We can say that Lavine is great at 3p shooting and going to the rim/transition but other than that he is more limited than Book.
That versatility makes Book a biggest threat.
Defensively Book does a fantastic job covering 1-3 and he works well the passing lanes for steals, his IQ on defense is pretty high. You can't say the same about Lavine who is a mediocre defender.
IMO there isn't debate.
DeRozan is much better than Lavine and I would put Mitchell and (obviously) Harden as a better players than Lavine too.
FVV...that one is close.
I think Booker is a bit better but it really depends on what you need/value too. Most feel that going to the rim and shooting 3s are the best shots in basketball. Book is great in the mid range and Paul is exceptional from there so it's a nice weapon especially when the defense is giving to you but it might not be what the coach wants you to do at all. Most coaches don't want their players to take those shots and will willingly give up mid range shots as long as they don't allow a lot of 3s or people getting to the rim.
I agree that Booker has become a better defender. He's good when engaged at 1 on 1 and has become good at playing the passing lanes, even if he might gamble for steals a bit much.
I was mostly talking about who I felt was worthy of all NBA for those last spots. I think LaVine is a little better than Mitchell this year.
But really those 3 are pretty close, and it really depends on what's important. It is funny that I've always valued defense but in past arguments I feel this has been ignored when talking about how great you felt Booker was despite his horrid defense before last year.
NBA players voted LaVine as the 2nd best guard in the east (Booker 3rd best guard in west).
I do feel he has improved and is better than those guys defensively but at the same time they are all very close offensively and it might depend on what you value, depending on the player.
Booker will make it before those guys though given I would give him the slight edge in player and he is on the best team, and they are still looking pretty good with him leading the way with Paul out.
I think Harden is vastly overrated. He is not a very good 3pt shooter and he is not a good 2 pt shooter, even though the vast majority of his shots are at the rim. From 3-10 ft he shoots 37%.
He is lucky he gets a lot of fouls called so he's good at that and he is a good passer but that's really it. When push comes to shove he hasn't proven much in the playoff unless Paul was by his side.....not that the others have but Harden has also declined a lot.
