Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

Maystack · Post #1101 » by **Maystack** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:57 pm

PJ guards Griffin well for someone five inches shorter than him, but I think that's because they hate each other.

RaisingArizona · Post #1102 » by **RaisingArizona** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:58 pm

Tucker is a nice 7th or 8th guy off the bench utility guy. I don't think a team can be too successful starting him and expecting him to put up 15 points a night on good efficiency.

RaisingArizona · Post #1103 » by **RaisingArizona** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:12 pm

In before the BurningHeart rant...

Jarlaxle0204 · Post #1104 » by **Jarlaxle0204** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:16 pm

LukasBMW wrote:If we had ditched IT earlier last year by even just a month or two, we could have gotten the SAME return value (a draft pick) AND kept Dragic (likely at 70-90 mil) AND kept our Laker pick.

We really screwed up. No question.

I still think a Bledsoe/Dragic backcourt with a Laker lottery pick in our pocket is better then a Bledsoe/Knight backcourt with no high picks (other then our own).

I do agree with you but you are discounting the future Heat picks which might wind up being something.

Jdiddy701 · Post #1105 » by **Jdiddy701** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:16 pm

As much as I dislike Tucker starting at the 3 spot, if we lose Keef, Tucker at the 4 seems interesting. I think he guards PF's very well. Good rebounder too. I would love to try it out.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Len start alongside Chandler either.

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letsgosuns · Post #1106 » by **letsgosuns** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:23 pm

The Bledsoe/Dragic backcourt maxed out its potential in 2013/14. It was never going to get better than it was that year. It was a good backcourt but it was not good enough and I doubt it ever would have been.

SideSwipe · Post #1107 » by **SideSwipe** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:49 pm

Nash going to GSW is killing me. I would have loved to see Sarver bring in Nash and Barkley into major roles in the front office (not GM) but roles where they have significant input directly on the team and to Sarver. Their involvement would have lent some credibility to the franchise about their commitment as well as their desire to take the next step. For now, we are still on the sidelines.

Saberestar · Post #1108 » by **Saberestar** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:59 pm

NTB wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/643845589130715136[/tweet]

Wow.. Why didn't Suns do this?

Sad news...I wanted Nash BADLY on our staff.

thamadkant · Post #1109 » by **thamadkant** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:02 pm

Tucker does NOT guard PFs well...

He struggles against players with the same bulk and longer reach than he does...

If he was a superb athlete or a super strong player like Barkley and Chuck Hayes, maybe he can, but he isnt.

Draymond Green is 6'8.... 2 inches taller than Tucker and looks like he has long reach and nice wingspan...
He is longer than Tucker.

Grant Hill got away playing PF in small ball because he was 6'8 with good measurements also.... plus he had very high IQ in that end.

Tucker playing PF will work against some teams.... but against the Griffins, Randolphs, Aldridges, Davis etc He will get scored 30+ on.

kennydorglas · Post #1110 » by **kennydorglas** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:06 pm

SideSwipe wrote:Nash going to GSW is killing me. I would have loved to see Sarver bring in Nash and Barkley into major roles in the front office (not GM) but roles where they have significant input directly on the team and to Sarver. Their involvement would have lent some credibility to the franchise about their commitment as well as their desire to take the next step. For now, we are still on the sidelines.

Ohhhh
I'm just sad with this news.

RunDogGun · Post #1111 » by **RunDogGun** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:34 pm

1UPZ wrote:Tucker does NOT guard PFs well...

He struggles against players with the same bulk and longer reach than he does...

If he was a superb athlete or a super strong player like Barkley and Chuck Hayes, maybe he can, but he isnt.

Draymond Green is 6'8.... 2 inches taller than Tucker and looks like he has long reach and nice wingspan...
He is longer than Tucker.

Grant Hill got away playing PF in small ball because he was 6'8 with good measurements also.... plus he had very high IQ in that end.

Tucker playing PF will work against some teams.... but against the Griffins, Randolphs, Aldridges, Davis etc He will get scored 30+ on.

I disagree with most of this. I don't think he struggles defending PFs. What usually happens is we relied on Tucker to guard many PFs and Cs when others had failed. Usually that was because the 4 or 5 had already got into a rhythm. Very tough to fault him for that. He doesn't get pushed around very easily, so he isn't deficient in that area. Being shorter will always have its disadvantages, and hopefully he can figure how to stop a shooter before they get into their shot.

As for the guys mentioned getting 30+ points, can't that happen on almost anyone? At that point, the best one can hope for is not having to double team one of those guys, which with Tucker we don't.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just disagree with your assessment.

RunDogGun · Post #1112 » by **RunDogGun** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:40 pm

kennydorglas wrote:
SideSwipe wrote:Nash going to GSW is killing me. I would have loved to see Sarver bring in Nash and Barkley into major roles in the front office (not GM) but roles where they have significant input directly on the team and to Sarver. Their involvement would have lent some credibility to the franchise about their commitment as well as their desire to take the next step. For now, we are still on the sidelines.

Ohhhh
I'm just sad with this news.

I'm not too shocked by the news, especially since Kerr wanted Curry to learn from Nash a long time ago. I'm sure Kerr wanted to get Nash before, and even more so after losing Gentry.

It would be even cooler if somehow Hornacek convinces KJ to become part of the Suns staffing.

Stix · Post #1113 » by **Stix** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:55 pm

RunDogGun wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:
SideSwipe wrote:Nash going to GSW is killing me. I would have loved to see Sarver bring in Nash and Barkley into major roles in the front office (not GM) but roles where they have significant input directly on the team and to Sarver. Their involvement would have lent some credibility to the franchise about their commitment as well as their desire to take the next step. For now, we are still on the sidelines.

Ohhhh
I'm just sad with this news.

I'm not too shocked by the news, especially since Kerr wanted Curry to learn from Nash a long time ago. I'm sure Kerr wanted to get Nash before, and even more so after losing Gentry.

It would be even cooler if somehow Hornacek convinces KJ to become part of the Suns staffing.

Hmm... Mayor of Sacramento vs. Working for Bobby Sarver. Yeah... I don't think KJ is coming here any time soon.

Post #1114 » by **bwgood77** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:13 am

Zero Tolerance wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:
Ohhhh
I'm just sad with this news.

I'm not too shocked by the news, especially since Kerr wanted Curry to learn from Nash a long time ago. I'm sure Kerr wanted to get Nash before, and even more so after losing Gentry.

It would be even cooler if somehow Hornacek convinces KJ to become part of the Suns staffing.

Hmm... Mayor of Sacramento vs. Working for Bobby Sarver. Yeah... I don't think KJ is coming here any time soon.

I don't know how good KJ would be with mentoring or player development, but in negotiating with players and their agents? He might be pretty good at that. I was shocked when he did whatever he did to keep the Kings in Sacramento. The announcers were basically choked up on tv when they thought it was their last game.

But having a guy like KJ in on the pitch with LMA could have been huge. If he is THAT convincing, he could have talked about how special it was when he came to the Suns in 88 and after winning 28 games they won 55 the next year, and talked about how they knocked off Magic and the Lakers who had won all those rings in the 80s, etc, and that just joining a team that is already an elite team wouldn't be as special, etc.

Post #1115 » by **lilfishi22** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:16 am

RunDogGun wrote:
1UPZ wrote:Tucker does NOT guard PFs well...

He struggles against players with the same bulk and longer reach than he does...

If he was a superb athlete or a super strong player like Barkley and Chuck Hayes, maybe he can, but he isnt.

Draymond Green is 6'8.... 2 inches taller than Tucker and looks like he has long reach and nice wingspan...
He is longer than Tucker.

Grant Hill got away playing PF in small ball because he was 6'8 with good measurements also.... plus he had very high IQ in that end.

Tucker playing PF will work against some teams.... but against the Griffins, Randolphs, Aldridges, Davis etc He will get scored 30+ on.

I disagree with most of this. I don't think he struggles defending PFs. What usually happens is we relied on Tucker to guard many PFs and Cs when others had failed. Usually that was because the 4 or 5 had already got into a rhythm. Very tough to fault him for that. He doesn't get pushed around very easily, so he isn't deficient in that area. Being shorter will always have its disadvantages, and hopefully he can figure how to stop a shooter before they get into their shot.

As for the guys mentioned getting 30+ points, can't that happen on almost anyone? At that point, the best one can hope for is not having to double team one of those guys, which with Tucker we don't.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just disagree with your assessment.

My view on Tucker as a PF is similar to yours. No one is arguing that he's the ideal PF for us because he isn't but to say he gets slaughtered in every match up is just not right.

According to 82games.com http://www.82games.com/1415/14PHO13.HTM
Tucker has a positive net position in the minutes he played at the 4. He's a +11 in Net points, a 6.8 in his net offensive/defensive rating.

On a per48 basis, his opponents shot a paltry .391eFG% against him, averaged 2 more fouls and shot a similar number of FT's. He's basically holding his own in his short minutes at the PF. Yes, guys like Griffin , Z-Bo, Dirk and LMA could easily drop 30-40 on our team but they could do that against most teams and against bigger, longer and stronger PF defenders. Tucker won't consistently shut big men down but considering the calibre of guys we've asked him to cover, he's done more than just not get embarrassed, he's holding his own. The fact that many of today's PFs play more of a face-up game rather than an old school, back to basket bully game, really works in Tucker's favor because he's generally faster and he's pretty damn strong for a 6'6 PF.

He's not the answer long term but in the minutes he gets at the 4, he does a heck of a job.

Post #1116 » by **lilfishi22** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:22 am

I'm not butthurt about Nash joining the Dubs because I LOVE watching Curry play. Curry reminds me a lot of Nash with his flashy passing, great ball handling and super efficient shooting but he does so with a lot more on-court swagger. I think this will make Curry even more dangerous. Honestly makes me keen to watch more Warrior games.

This is a great situation for Nash as he can easily chime in many aspects of the Warrior's fast paced offense and he also has a guy who plays a similar game to him. Had he come to Phoenix, I don't think he would have nearly as much input as neither of our PG's have the passing instincts he had, nor do they play a similar game. I'm not mad because I feel like Nash coming back to Phoenix in some coaching or consulting aspect is not a matter of if but when.

RunDogGun · Post #1117 » by **RunDogGun** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:50 am

Zero Tolerance wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:
Ohhhh
I'm just sad with this news.

I'm not too shocked by the news, especially since Kerr wanted Curry to learn from Nash a long time ago. I'm sure Kerr wanted to get Nash before, and even more so after losing Gentry.

It would be even cooler if somehow Hornacek convinces KJ to become part of the Suns staffing.

Hmm... Mayor of Sacramento vs. Working for Bobby Sarver. Yeah... I don't think KJ is coming here any time soon.

Well who knows if he will be mayor for life, but really I was partially joking, but I do think Jeff would love Bledsoe to learn from KJ. I still believe that Jeff is searching for the Kevin/Jeff backcourt.

As for working under managing owner, meh, I just don't see Robert making things rough for a returning ROH player.

letsgosuns · Post #1118 » by **letsgosuns** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:01 am

Kevin Johnson is a politician and as far as I know, has had no affiliation with basketball for many years other than fighting to keep the Kings in Sacramento or the lawsuit involving Donald Sterling. I do not think he is interested in coaching or joining an organization in any capacity, at least not in the near future.

Anyway, I highly doubt Johnson would join the Suns if he came back to basketball. The people involved with the team while he was a player are long gone. This is a completely different organization now.

LukasBMW · Post #1119 » by **LukasBMW** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:30 am

How the hell did we miss out on Steve Nash?

Easy. Sarver is a *** and everything about Phoenix Nash loved is gone.

DAntoni - Gone
Gentry - Gone

Kerr was familiar with Nash and sold him on the city and the chance to work with a new style of SSOL.

Sad. We should have made a better play.

LukasBMW · Post #1120 » by **LukasBMW** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:31 am

PJ @ the 2 spot last year was money given that all he can do on offense is shoot 3's and bully players that are not as strong as he is.

PJ at the 4 spot is not recommended unless we are going small for a limited amount of time. We'd get killed on the boards and in the paint.

PJ is a 2 or 3. He's not a 4.