Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez
Puff wrote:Could the CAVS be setting the table for a Wiggins trade for Irving after signing Derek Rose?
bwgood77 wrote:dantley4prez wrote:bwgood77 wrote:
Yes, the more I analyze the entire situation, with him probably leaving, wanting the ball and 20-25 shots a game, dribbling a ton, and the fit, it doesn't ultimately make much sense for our team and where we are.
I MIGHT trade Bledsoe and the Heat pick for him, but that would be my limit..and maybe include Dudley since he is a nice fit. We can't start giving up young assets we've included for a win now player when we likely would not win much now, and he would likely leave and we deplete assets that help our future. I'm not even sure we get much better with him over Bledsoe, and at least we know Bledsoe loves the team, if we happen to decide to try and keep him.
But bw, what if this trade leads us to get another free agent, say, like Anthony Davis or Boogie Cousins? Then we're in business with Golden State. They can't handle a big man who can do all that those two can. Can you imagine Zaza and Boogie Cousins in the Western Conference finals? Zaza might get murdered.
We are nowhere near GS with Boogie and Kyrie. Neither have ever won in the NBA unless they play with LeBron. AD isn't a free agent for like 4 years. We should go after him then when our players are hitting their prime, but Kyrie is all about himself. Boogie wouldn't like playing with him.
Finally, you have to question Irving’s motives because his actions come off as self-centered. What I see is a player who had the best season of his career and played in the most games he has ever played in, be left off of all the All-NBA teams – he wasn’t close while watching players like Thomas and Derozen emerge and other guards like Curry, Harden and Westbrook be widely recognized as their teams leaders, cornerstones and best players. He also saw Harden and Westbrook escape the shadows of famous teammates and have unprecedented seasons. He has got to be thinking to himself, “That should be me if just get out or LeBron’s shadow.” If this is true and I suspect it is, I would expect to be a very motivated (the good), but very self-centered player (the bad).
dantley4prez wrote:bwgood77 wrote:dantley4prez wrote:
But bw, what if this trade leads us to get another free agent, say, like Anthony Davis or Boogie Cousins? Then we're in business with Golden State. They can't handle a big man who can do all that those two can. Can you imagine Zaza and Boogie Cousins in the Western Conference finals? Zaza might get murdered.
We are nowhere near GS with Boogie and Kyrie. Neither have ever won in the NBA unless they play with LeBron. AD isn't a free agent for like 4 years. We should go after him then when our players are hitting their prime, but Kyrie is all about himself. Boogie wouldn't like playing with him.
i will say that Kyrie had a baaaaaaaad team around him (and not "bad" in a good way) prior to LeBron's arrival. His best teammate was Luol Deng. DeMarcus similarly had horrible teams around him. I didn't expect them to win that many games with those teams. Together, though? Inside outside, with Devin Booker? That could be deadly.
I don't know. I don't think 27 year old Bledsoe has a place here anymore. I want to turn him into Kyrie. You might be right that it's not such a good idea on paper, but as long as we don't give up Jackson, I think we're consolidating our assets. If we pay TJ and Bledsoe, we'll have, like, 6 role players and 1 star. With Kyrie, we have 2 stars.
All we really need are Booker and Jackson. I'm happy that Cleveland isn't interested in Chriss and Bender because I'dlike them to stay. As for TJ and Bled, I don't think they're part of #thetimeline. I certainly don't think we need the Miami picks. If we can use Bled, TJ and the Miami picks, I say do it. Do it. Take the chance. As long as it's not Jackson, do it.
bwgood77 wrote:Yes, the more I analyze the entire situation, with him probably leaving, wanting the ball and 20-25 shots a game, dribbling a ton, and the fit, it doesn't ultimately make much sense for our team and where we are.
I MIGHT trade Bledsoe and the Heat pick for him, but that would be my limit..and maybe include Dudley since he is a nice fit. We can't start giving up young assets we've included for a win now player when we likely would not win much now, and he would likely leave and we deplete assets that help our future. I'm not even sure we get much better with him over Bledsoe, and at least we know Bledsoe loves the team, if we happen to decide to try and keep him.
starbosa10 wrote:Bled, Warren, 2018 MIA is max we should offer in my opinion for Kyrie. The 3 way with NY getting back Frank and maybe a pick would be ok too if Kyrie goes to NY
denial wrote:Finally, you have to question Irving’s motives because his actions come off as self-centered. What I see is a player who had the best season of his career and played in the most games he has ever played in, be left off of all the All-NBA teams – he wasn’t close while watching players like Thomas and Derozen emerge and other guards like Curry, Harden and Westbrook be widely recognized as their teams leaders, cornerstones and best players. He also saw Harden and Westbrook escape the shadows of famous teammates and have unprecedented seasons. He has got to be thinking to himself, “That should be me if just get out or LeBron’s shadow.” If this is true and I suspect it is, I would expect to be a very motivated (the good), but very self-centered player (the bad).
I don't think he cares that he is the "main guy". I just think he wants more control of his destiny. On the Cavs, he is just a tool of someone else's plan.
Besides, I think he knows the east is weak and the Cavs are done for as currently constructed. I don't blame him at all.
jredsaz wrote:I think suns fans here have agreed that Bledsoe, Warren, and the Miami '18 1st is about where we value Irving. I wonder how close that is the the actual offers being talked about?
lilfishi22 wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Yes, the more I analyze the entire situation, with him probably leaving, wanting the ball and 20-25 shots a game, dribbling a ton, and the fit, it doesn't ultimately make much sense for our team and where we are.
I MIGHT trade Bledsoe and the Heat pick for him, but that would be my limit..and maybe include Dudley since he is a nice fit. We can't start giving up young assets we've included for a win now player when we likely would not win much now, and he would likely leave and we deplete assets that help our future. I'm not even sure we get much better with him over Bledsoe, and at least we know Bledsoe loves the team, if we happen to decide to try and keep him.
I'm more concerned with him likely leaving than I am about his fit. I think him wanting to dominate the ball and taking 20-25 shots a game is a bit overblown. Him wanting to be a more focal part of the offense doesn't necessarily mean he just wants to take 25 shots game. It could mean he wants to initiate the offense more. More PnR's and more passing (he's a more than capable passer).
I'd give up Bledsoe, Warren and a Miami pick. If they push for Chriss/Bender, I'd have to think really hard. We still have Booker, JJ, Bender, Ulis, our future picks and now Irving (who is still only 25).
Booker and JJ (at this point) are the only untouchables
SlovenianDragon wrote:I'm crazy so I wouldn't give warren for Irving straight up. You need guys like Warren whether he starts or comes off the bench he will contribute in a significant way. And I don't see the fit with Irving. To me a trade for irving would be flat out disgusting. I'm probably in the minority and that's fine.... I just don't want to see our team crumble into ****.
ChrisInAZ wrote:denial wrote:Finally, you have to question Irving’s motives because his actions come off as self-centered. What I see is a player who had the best season of his career and played in the most games he has ever played in, be left off of all the All-NBA teams – he wasn’t close while watching players like Thomas and Derozen emerge and other guards like Curry, Harden and Westbrook be widely recognized as their teams leaders, cornerstones and best players. He also saw Harden and Westbrook escape the shadows of famous teammates and have unprecedented seasons. He has got to be thinking to himself, “That should be me if just get out or LeBron’s shadow.” If this is true and I suspect it is, I would expect to be a very motivated (the good), but very self-centered player (the bad).
I don't think he cares that he is the "main guy". I just think he wants more control of his destiny. On the Cavs, he is just a tool of someone else's plan.
Besides, I think he knows the east is weak and the Cavs are done for as currently constructed. I don't blame him at all.
I don't understand your reasoning?
-In a year Lebron is gone and Kyrie can be the B.M.O.C. again ...the captain
-The East is Least. Not only can he waltz to All Star games, he can far more easily lead "his" team deep into the playoffs
lilfishi22 wrote:I don't understand why people think having Irving on this team would suddenly make the team implode in on itself.
If we agree that the fair value would be Bledsoe, Warren and a Miami pick then what are we REALLY giving up for a multiple time all-star (in the East) and NBA champion? Warren, to me, is one of the most underrated young players in the league hampered by a mystery injury and a style and personality which doesn't muster much media attention. He's the one asset that has the most value to us long term. Bledsoe is a solid two way player who doesn't fit out core nor is he likely going to be with the team long term anyway.
So Warren and the pick (throw in Chriss there if you like) are really who we're giving up for Irving because Bledsoe, let's be honest, is not part of our #timeline. Is that really that much to give up?
