Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs

Post #1121 » by **Qwigglez** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:52 am

Wright is a pretty phenomenal weak-side defender. I think Plumlee is a decent weak-side defender, but has a lot more strength to battle against heavier guys. Together, they compliment each other well for being our backups.
What do you think Wright's salary is gonna look like next season?

Sunlight · Post #1122 » by **Sunlight** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:01 am

Near Mook's salary. If he cant' play more than 20-25mins not much more then.

Zelaznyrules · Post #1123 » by **Zelaznyrules** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:42 am

Sunlight wrote:Near Mook's salary. If he cant' play more than 20-25mins not much more then.

I hope you're right but I think you might be short a couple million. I can't see us keeping him for less than 7 million per and with all the talk about the new TV deal that number might still be low.

Post #1124 » by **Qwigglez** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:38 am

I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of 4 year deal 26.5mil.

thamadkant · Post #1125 » by **thamadkant** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:43 am

Dragic: 4 year extension, 56 million.
Wright: 4 years, 32 million.

Revived · Post #1126 » by **Revived** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:56 am

1UPZ wrote:Dragic: 4 year extension, 56 million.
Wright: 4 years, 32 million.

You wanna give Wright more money than we gave Kieff?

Listen Wright is a great fit for us and all but I don't think he's some rare talent. I think we should be able to secure him for $5M-$6M max. If he wants more than that, we can find someone else whether in the draft, free agency or through trades.

Lets not be the one to overpay him.

Post #1127 » by **TASTIC** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:31 pm

Dragic 5yr $60m
Wright 4yr $25m

I really like Wright, dude just puts the ball in the hoop...

Frank Lee · Post #1128 » by **Frank Lee** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:34 pm

You ('88) overvalue the rookie talent pool. The skill level of these kids, especially the early outers is far below Wright. In fact BWright himself is a great example of that. The former 1 and done TarHeal was highly touted in the draft*., ended up as the 8th pick.

We will pay this guy accordingly and wont be cheap about. His value to this team, IMO will surpass KeifMo's one trick pony contribution.

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NBA_draft Very good draft btw, one the we drew a 'nut' on though

Revived · Post #1129 » by **Revived** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:29 pm

Frank Lee wrote:You ('88) overvalue the rookie talent pool. The skill level of these kids, especially the early outers is far below Wright. In fact BWright himself is a great example of that. The former 1 and done TarHeal was highly touted in the draft*., ended up as the 8th pick.

We will pay this guy accordingly and wont be cheap about. His value to this team, IMO will surpass KeifMo's one trick pony contribution.

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NBA_draft Very good draft btw, one the we drew a 'nut' on though

You think Wright is more valuable to the team than Kieff?

thamadkant · Post #1130 » by **thamadkant** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:40 pm

SF88 wrote:
1UPZ wrote:Dragic: 4 year extension, 56 million.
Wright: 4 years, 32 million.

You wanna give Wright more money than we gave Kieff?

Listen Wright is a great fit for us and all but I don't think he's some rare talent. I think we should be able to secure him for $5M-$6M max. If he wants more than that, we can find someone else whether in the draft, free agency or through trades.

Lets not be the one to overpay him.

In short YES.

Wright plays the position the right way, finish at the rim, alter shots, positions himself down low to be an option for a team mate and applies pressure to the defense.

He is perfect to put on Anthony Davis defensively as he has the same length, athleticism and almost same agility.

Wright is worth a lot in the open market.

Kieff is nice but there are a some other cheap players who can replicate that 16/6 stat line... Or come close to it... Bass, Landry etc at 5-6 million a year.
He needs the ball a lot to be impactful too...

Wright doesn't need the ball to impact the game... He is a pest defensively.

kennydorglas · Post #1131 » by **kennydorglas** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:02 pm

Kieff has 6'11 wingspan... just to compare him with someone, that's Shabazz number
To be able to play consistently being so short u need athleticism (Griffin) or be an extreme skilled player (Love)

That's why he was sodomized by Anthony Davis and Zach Randolph = LENGTH kills.

BobbieL · Post #1132 » by **BobbieL** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:19 pm

I used to think there was a market for Isiah Thomas. I am not so sure any more. A guy like Green is a FA - so he is off the books next summer. Plumlee - he has a couple million on his salary - probably still a guy to move as he is an athletic big who can do some things off the bench. Last night showed that he can be okay off the bench

Isiah Thomoas - just am not sure his value in the league - but we have about 5 weeks to find out to the trade deadline.

Wright is a guy to keep longer term though that's for sure.

NotTrax had four names as keepers - I would prefer to keep Dragic but for the right deal....

the other guys, the Morri, Green, Thomas, Plumlee, Ennis, Warren, Bogdanoovic, Goodwin, future draft picks - OPEN FOR BUSINESS!

I think it was Kerrsed who had the Noel/Wroten for the Morris and Isiah - would love that deal

Zelaznyrules · Post #1133 » by **Zelaznyrules** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:39 pm

BobbieL wrote:I used to think there was a market for Isiah Thomas. I am not so sure any more. A guy like Green is a FA - so he is off the books next summer. Plumlee - he has a couple million on his salary - probably still a guy to move as he is an athletic big who can do some things off the bench. Last night showed that he can be okay off the bench

Isiah Thomoas - just am not sure his value in the league - but we have about 5 weeks to find out to the trade deadline.

Wright is a guy to keep longer term though that's for sure.

NotTrax had four names as keepers - I would prefer to keep Dragic but for the right deal....

the other guys, the Morri, Green, Thomas, Plumlee, Ennis, Warren, Bogdanoovic, Goodwin, future draft picks - OPEN FOR BUSINESS!

I think it was Kerrsed who had the Noel/Wroten for the Morris and Isiah - would love that deal

I was with you till that last sentence. Why would you love that deal? I'm not an expert on Philadelphia but the few times I've watched them I didn't see a player on the court for them that should be starting in the NBA. Wroten looked like a nice backup player although he's a horrible free throw shooter for his position. Noel looked like a nice college player.

BobbieL · Post #1134 » by **BobbieL** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:31 pm

Zelaznyrules wrote:
BobbieL wrote:I used to think there was a market for Isiah Thomas. I am not so sure any more. A guy like Green is a FA - so he is off the books next summer. Plumlee - he has a couple million on his salary - probably still a guy to move as he is an athletic big who can do some things off the bench. Last night showed that he can be okay off the bench

Isiah Thomoas - just am not sure his value in the league - but we have about 5 weeks to find out to the trade deadline.

Wright is a guy to keep longer term though that's for sure.

NotTrax had four names as keepers - I would prefer to keep Dragic but for the right deal....

the other guys, the Morri, Green, Thomas, Plumlee, Ennis, Warren, Bogdanoovic, Goodwin, future draft picks - OPEN FOR BUSINESS!

I think it was Kerrsed who had the Noel/Wroten for the Morris and Isiah - would love that deal

I was with you till that last sentence. Why would you love that deal? I'm not an expert on Philadelphia but the few times I've watched them I didn't see a player on the court for them that should be starting in the NBA. Wroten looked like a nice backup player although he's a horrible free throw shooter for his position. Noel looked like a nice college player.

better guard rotation of wroten dragic and Bledsoe
clearing salary cap space with the morris for possibly better deal down the road with a better player

the Morris brothers are tough. as they are pretty consistent - but I think the Suns need BETTER at three or four then what they have now.

if the Suns keep the Morri - okay with that - so many other players now: Zoran, Bogdanovich, Warren, Ennis, Bullock, Goodwin - not playing. draft picks to come. who gets those minutes

McD really needs to pair the roster down - luckily has some assets to work with. so maybe that is not the right deal for the Morris brothers. but I am open to whatever it takes to take this team from borderline 8 to solid top 4 team in the west. I like Dragic - but I want top 4 seed more

Zelaznyrules · Post #1135 » by **Zelaznyrules** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:15 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Zelaznyrules wrote:
BobbieL wrote:I used to think there was a market for Isiah Thomas. I am not so sure any more. A guy like Green is a FA - so he is off the books next summer. Plumlee - he has a couple million on his salary - probably still a guy to move as he is an athletic big who can do some things off the bench. Last night showed that he can be okay off the bench

Isiah Thomoas - just am not sure his value in the league - but we have about 5 weeks to find out to the trade deadline.

Wright is a guy to keep longer term though that's for sure.

NotTrax had four names as keepers - I would prefer to keep Dragic but for the right deal....

the other guys, the Morri, Green, Thomas, Plumlee, Ennis, Warren, Bogdanoovic, Goodwin, future draft picks - OPEN FOR BUSINESS!

I think it was Kerrsed who had the Noel/Wroten for the Morris and Isiah - would love that deal

I was with you till that last sentence. Why would you love that deal? I'm not an expert on Philadelphia but the few times I've watched them I didn't see a player on the court for them that should be starting in the NBA. Wroten looked like a nice backup player although he's a horrible free throw shooter for his position. Noel looked like a nice college player.

better guard rotation of wroten dragic and Bledsoe
clearing salary cap space with the morris for possibly better deal down the road with a better player

the Morris brothers are tough. as they are pretty consistent - but I think the Suns need BETTER at three or four then what they have now.

if the Suns keep the Morri - okay with that - so many other players now: Zoran, Bogdanovich, Warren, Ennis, Bullock, Goodwin - not playing. draft picks to come. who gets those minutes

McD really needs to pair the roster down - luckily has some assets to work with. so maybe that is not the right deal for the Morris brothers. but I am open to whatever it takes to take this team from borderline 8 to solid top 4 team in the west. I like Dragic - but I want top 4 seed more

I can see the advantage of trading with Philly as they can absorb a lot of salary but maybe a multi team deal would work better? I'm just not sold on Nerlens longterm. If we move the twins, Thomas and Bledsoe with an eye towards a Dragic, Wroten, Tucker, Love, Len lineup I'd be excited about the possibilities but otherwise, moving Markieff leaves us with a huge hole.

I think we already have the roster of a top 4 seed team once Len hits his stride but that's probably 2 years away. I think we're better off waiting for that day but I wouldn't mind upgrading the forward spots either. But I think we need to have that upgrade in hand when we move the twins and I just don't see Noel in that conversation.

I agree about paring the roster down but I don't know that getting rid of starters is the way to do it, at least not until some of the young players convince the coaching staff that they are ready for major minutes.

NavLDO · Post #1136 » by **NavLDO** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:17 pm

1UPZ wrote:
SF88 wrote:
1UPZ wrote:Dragic: 4 year extension, 56 million.
Wright: 4 years, 32 million.

You wanna give Wright more money than we gave Kieff?

Listen Wright is a great fit for us and all but I don't think he's some rare talent. I think we should be able to secure him for $5M-$6M max. If he wants more than that, we can find someone else whether in the draft, free agency or through trades.

Lets not be the one to overpay him.

In short YES.

Wright plays the position the right way, finish at the rim, alter shots, positions himself down low to be an option for a team mate and applies pressure to the defense.

He is perfect to put on Anthony Davis defensively as he has the same length, athleticism and almost same agility.

Wright is worth a lot in the open market.

Kieff is nice but there are a some other cheap players who can replicate that 16/6 stat line... Or come close to it... Bass, Landry etc at 5-6 million a year.
He needs the ball a lot to be impactful too...

Wright doesn't need the ball to impact the game... He is a pest defensively.

Over exaggerate, much? Bass and Landry are nowhere near Kieff's production:

Pts--15.5 to 8.9 and 8.2
Rebs--5.9 to 3.6 and 4.4
WS--3.1 to 1.4 and 1.9
PER--17.0 to 15.5 and 15.9
Stl%--2.2 to 1.1 and .6
3PT%--33% on 2.5 attempts to 20% on .3 attempts and 0

AGE--25 to 29 and 31
$$--$8M/per to $6.9M and $6.5M/per

Oh, you must have meant Marcus, not Markieff...now it makes sense, yes, much closer in production, other than Marcus makes between $1.5M and $1.9M less. 9.8 pts, 3.8 rebs, 2.05 WS, 38.9% on 3.43 attempts--yep, pretty close.

Oh, unless you meant to compare Kieff to Favors, who makes almost $5M more per yr than Kieff, yet has similar production. Yes, Favors is a better rebounder and defender, but he contributes zilch from behind the arc, is worse from the charity stripe, has half as many steals, and 2/3 the number of assists.

Markieff is ranked 9th in pts/gm and 4th in steals for PFs. Yes, his rebound numbers are low, and yes, he has to compensate for his relatively short arms, but he is by no means in the same "grouping" as Bass and Landry--that's just flat out insulting to what Kieff has provided to this team. He's closer to DNowitzki/RAnderson/DGreen in type of play and production, than he is to BBass and CLandry.

It's amazing to me the level of insulting remarks Kieff gets on these boards. I certainly wouldn't say that he couldn't be upgraded, but again, he's similar in production to the 3 above this season, and two of which make more than him, while the other is still on a rookie contract, but does anyone want to get whether Green will fetch more than Kieff did? How about Brandan Wright? Yes, Wright will likely demand more in FA this off-season than Kieff, or at least close to it. If we can sign him for, say, $6.5M per this offseason, then we'll be in good shape, but anymore than that and we'll have to pass, I'd imagine.

But anyway, Kieff does very well for what he is, and is one of the more consistent players on this squad. But at the same time, he is a very tradeable prospect at just $8M per, but I certainly wouldn't do it unless it was a clear upgrade at the position, and if we do that, well, I doubt we have enough to pay Dragic as well.

We don't have to have All-NBA types at every position. We can have above average starters at most of our positions and be competitive. And I'm willing to wait a couple of years for that. This is what I envision as a possibility of our depth chart to look like starting the '16/'17 season, (with their expected "value" compared to others in that role):

EB (Abv Avg-> All-Star) / IT (Top 3 bench PG) / Ennis (Abv Avg)
Dragic (Abv Avg) / Bullock (Abv Avg) / Goodwin (Well Abv Avg)
Warren (Avg->Abv Avg) / Tucker (Abv Avg) / CusMo (Abv Avg)
Kieff (Abv Avg) / '15 1st Rd Pick (Avg)
Len (All-Star) / Wright (Top 3 bench C) / Plumlee (Well Abv Avg)

That's assuming we keep our roster as is, which is highly doubtful, but the point is, with that roster, we're a solid playoff team, IMO, with a very deep bench. I can't overstate how important it is to have a deep bench, IMO. All those star players can't play 48 minutes a game.

Sunsdeuce · Post #1137 » by **Sunsdeuce** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:31 pm

The key is what number (salary) wright is looking for?

Post #1138 » by **TASTIC** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:31 pm

Wroten.

Holy god I don't want that dude anywhere near my team, he's possibly the worst shooter in the entire NBA.

Only thing he does well is drive and draw contact, but he's a career 65% shooter at the line and he's turning it over nearly 4 times a night. Big fat pass.

Sunsdeuce · Post #1139 » by **Sunsdeuce** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:40 pm

NavLDO wrote:This is what I envision as a possibility of our depth chart to look like starting the '16/'17 season, (with their expected "value" compared to others in that role):

EB (Abv Avg-> All-Star) / IT (Top 3 bench PG) / Ennis (Abv Avg)
Dragic (Abv Avg) / Bullock (Abv Avg) / Goodwin (Well Abv Avg)
Warren (Avg->Abv Avg) / Tucker (Abv Avg) / CusMo (Abv Avg)
Kieff (Abv Avg) / '15 1st Rd Pick (Avg)
Len (All-Star) / Wright (Top 3 bench C) / Plumlee (Well Abv Avg)

That's assuming we keep our roster as is, which is highly doubtful, but the point is, with that roster, we're a solid playoff team, IMO.

Cocaine's a hell of a drug!

NavLDO · Post #1140 » by **NavLDO** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:47 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Zelaznyrules wrote:
BobbieL wrote:I used to think there was a market for Isiah Thomas. I am not so sure any more. A guy like Green is a FA - so he is off the books next summer. Plumlee - he has a couple million on his salary - probably still a guy to move as he is an athletic big who can do some things off the bench. Last night showed that he can be okay off the bench

Isiah Thomoas - just am not sure his value in the league - but we have about 5 weeks to find out to the trade deadline.

Wright is a guy to keep longer term though that's for sure.

NotTrax had four names as keepers - I would prefer to keep Dragic but for the right deal....

the other guys, the Morri, Green, Thomas, Plumlee, Ennis, Warren, Bogdanoovic, Goodwin, future draft picks - OPEN FOR BUSINESS!

I think it was Kerrsed who had the Noel/Wroten for the Morris and Isiah - would love that deal

I was with you till that last sentence. Why would you love that deal? I'm not an expert on Philadelphia but the few times I've watched them I didn't see a player on the court for them that should be starting in the NBA. Wroten looked like a nice backup player although he's a horrible free throw shooter for his position. Noel looked like a nice college player.

better guard rotation of wroten dragic and Bledsoe
clearing salary cap space with the morris for possibly better deal down the road with a better player

the Morris brothers are tough. as they are pretty consistent - but I think the Suns need BETTER at three or four then what they have now.

if the Suns keep the Morri - okay with that - so many other players now: Zoran, Bogdanovich, Warren, Ennis, Bullock, Goodwin - not playing. draft picks to come. who gets those minutes

McD really needs to pair the roster down - luckily has some assets to work with. so maybe that is not the right deal for the Morris brothers. but I am open to whatever it takes to take this team from borderline 8 to solid top 4 team in the west. I like Dragic - but I want top 4 seed more

The wonderful thing about what you've stated is that this is a great problem to have. McD has a ton of assets to work with. I would consider the "assets" to be Bogdanovich, Bullock, Tucker, IT, the Morii, Plumlee, and Green. I think his keepers are Goodwin, Warren, EB, Len, Wright, and the Dragi--oddly enough, I think Ennis fits in both categories. I'm basing this off what players McD acquired "on purpose" while here (EB, Warren, Len, Ennis, Goodwin, Wright, Zoran), as opposed to those he acquired as "Plan B" guys (IT, Ennis) or "asset gathering" (Bullock, Plumlee, Green, Bogdanovich). Also, basing it off of players we had already that are expendable (the Morri, Tucker), basically, not fan favorites like Gogi.

It doesn't mean that McD won't trade any of the "keepers", because obviously, unless we had a Durant or LeBron, everyone can be upgraded, it just means that I don't think they are actively shopping the keepers. I don't necessarily believe McD is calling teams advertising Goran as "for sale", but if in conversation, in which McD is attempting to acquire an All-Star, or a young, potential All-Star, and said team stated Dragic or no deal, I have no doubt that he'd trade Goran as part of the package.

But yes, some room needs to be made in order to facilitate getting these younger guys some playing time, and I have no doubt that McD will eventually make it happen. But at the same time, some of those players will eventually be packaged to ensure we upgrade our roster.