2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes

[WeekapaugGroove]

Expectations need to be tempered with FVV because the Raptors have never really been shy about paying players who want to stay there. Now who knows maybe FVV hates Molson beer and Tim Hortons and wants to leave but if he wants to stay I see no reason the Raps won't get a deal done.

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[Saberestar]

What do people expect FVV will command on the FA market? Marks said $25M to $30M. That doesn't sound reasonable to me. What is an estimate?

Third leading scorer on a contender. Super durable, averages close to 36 mpg. Excellent defender, great 3p shooter, very good passer.
26 years old but with a ton of playoffs experience.

$100M / 4 years.

[bwgood77]

Seems pretty far-fetched he would leave LA. Plus they gave up like 5 first rounders for the guy. But, this is one of the reasons I am more inclined to play it closer to the vest this offseason and have 1) Hopefully, the growth of the players to show the rest of the league how much better an option is 2) the cap space to get an elite player.

FVV might be nice but at what cost. And could a player like Augustin or the like. I mean, could the team renounce Baynes and sign a guy like Augustin for 7-8m and than a big for 2-3m or the veterans minimum. Cap flexibility in 2021 would be very strong.

The only chance we have at making a run at FVV is if we do some sort of Oubre salary dump trade around the draft (though we should be able to at least get a second instead of give one up) and then renounce at least Baynes. That would give us well over $20 million.

And yeah, with what LA gave up to get George, they are not going to trade him, certainly not for whatever was suggested. They probably don't trade him for anyone on our team. Maybe Booker but obviously we wouldn't.

I went to Spotrac and put in the 10th pick and renounced/waived Baynes, Diallo, Owens, Frank and Okobo while keeping Payne and having the cap hold for Saric - I have the Suns at 13m or thereabouts.

With this free agent class and not much money on the market - granted the cap could drop - couldn't the Suns be wise with the money, there won't be a lot out there anyway for players - and stand pat for 2021 without having to dump Oubre for nothing. I am open to this but I guess not for FVV.

It doesn't matter. Fred VanVleet is very unlikely to go anywhere. He starts on a contender and they are likely to pay him a lot. They are only at $86 million in payroll with him, Serge, Gasol (and Boucher) as a FA. Lowry expires next summer. I imagine they will keep only 1 of Serge or Gasol, or maybe neither if they like Boucher enough....they could even go small with Lowry/FVV/Powell/OG/Siakam and be fine, as long as Siakam is.

[bwgood77]

Expectations need to be tempered with FVV because the Raptors have never really been shy about paying players who want to stay there. Now who knows maybe FVV hates Molson beer and Tim Hortons and wants to leave but if he wants to stay I see no reason the Raps won't get a deal done.

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Yeah, Serge and Gasol make $23 and $25 million this year and are both expiring. Lowry makes $30 million and expires next summer. By VORP and WS FVV is their 2nd most important player behind Lowry, with Siakam 3rd and OG 4th. Powell is surging though. Ibaka and Gasol are next with Boucher right there. Boucher looks very strong in WS/48. I think they will let Serge and Gasol go unless they will play on very reasonable deals....they certainly won't lose FVV by keeping one or both of them....and they won't get more than a MLE deal. Both might be sought by contenders though...could be kind of like Baynes' competition...and both hit the 3 well too and can defend and Gasol a good passer.

The only thing would be if for some reason FVV wants to leave, but being signed after going undrafted, and then being a key part of a championship team and now a starter on a defending champion and contender? Not sure why he'd leave unless he just hates the cold.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Expectations need to be tempered with FVV because the Raptors have never really been shy about paying players who want to stay there. Now who knows maybe FVV hates Molson beer and Tim Hortons and wants to leave but if he wants to stay I see no reason the Raps won't get a deal done.

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Yeah, Serge and Gasol make $23 and $25 million this year and are both expiring. Lowry makes $30 million and expires next summer. By VORP and WS FVV is their 2nd most important player behind Lowry, with Siakam 3rd and OG 4th. Powell is surging though. Ibaka and Gasol are next with Boucher right there. Boucher looks very strong in WS/48. I think they will let Serge and Gasol go unless they will play on very reasonable deals....they certainly won't lose FVV by keeping one or both of them....and they won't get more than a MLE deal. Both might be sought by contenders though...could be kind of like Baynes' competition...and both hit the 3 well too and can defend and Gasol a good passer.

The only thing would be if for some reason FVV wants to leave, but being signed after going undrafted, and then being a key part of a championship team and now a starter on a defending champion and contender? Not sure why he'd leave unless he just hates the cold.

Honestly this Shams report is probably just his agent getting that out there so the Raps don't mess around and just give him the max.

He's from Rockford IL, I went to college about an hour north of there and he probably loves Toronto compared to there because it's a **** hole of a city. Lol

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[lilfishi22]

Love FVV but I'm not sure I see a mutual fit. Can we offer him a starting spot and can we pay him what he's likely to get. If we pay him what does it mean for guys who add depth and balance to this team like Saric and Baynes? How do we address that depth and with what money? Are we going to tie up $70-80m in 3 guards? Does he even want to leave a perennial contender with one of the best front offices and coach (congrats to Coach Nurse for winning COY) in the league?

If we didn't have Rubio, it would make a ton of sense but I'm not sure there's enough there to go on

[lilfishi22]

I’ve been thinking about Paul George a lot lately with how terrible he’s been in the playoffs so far. Ya’ll think there’s a chance we would pursue George in free agency next summer? Would you want to? He’s got a big fat player option but maybe he decides he’s not suited for the bright lights and big city and he’d rather come play in a mid market like Phoenix. Could be the starting PF here to close out his career. Could be an under the radar “big name” that we actually stand a chance to get.

I wouldn't go there. We know he wants to stay with a contender and he's already 30, he's not going to want to start a come-up again in Phoenix when he's already on a team with Kawhi. I certainly wouldn't want to pay him $35M+ until he's in his mid 30's.

[Jarlaxle0204]

Our biggest need is a back up guard who can play next to either Book or Rubio. FVV as i mentioned before would be the best target for that. If we manage to sign him it doesn't mean we will trade Rubio or we give him a starter role he would play 30 min off the bench. In that scenario Oubre is the odd man out, it is likely that we're not gonna resign him so we might trade him for a pick and salary cap and sign FVV. Use rest of the cap-space to keep Saric-Payne-Carter and sign a cheaper forward. Draft the BPA available and we're set. I also think FVV might not accept a bench role and Toronto would be foolish to let him go but of course they might wanna save cap-space to pursue a bigger name in the future and he might just want to play here. Letting Oubre go would be tough but if we can get a pick and manage to get a steal i'm ok with it.

I'm not really interested in trading Oubre but if that's the front office's decision, do you think we could package Oubre and #10 to GS to move up to #2?

To pick who?

No one specific in mind but the front office could basically have their pick. Grab Deni maybe. Can't go wrong with more wings who are cost controlled or we could pick for someone else and package it for a play now player. Just a thought. Not looking to move Oubre.

[sunskerr]

Yeah I love FVV. I said earlier he's about as good as Chris Paul has been this year, and perhaps a tiny bit better. Would love to have him on the team even if we had to trade Rubio. Just from a skills perspective FVV is the whole package: shooting, playmaking, and defense all in one.

Just look at this starting lineup: Van Vleet/Booker/Bridges/Johnson. Holy spacing. Ayton will have all the room he could ever need and all our drives to the rim would be 1 on 1. All those dudes would average over 2 3s per game.

But it doesn't seem to be good timing, given that we just had a successful year with Rubio (It looks like our team loves Ricky a lot), and 2021 looks like a big FA class. And he might command a bit too much money which would mean the production per dollar analysis of FVV vs Rubio could go in favour of Rubio.

If we did get him you'd have to hope that a few other changes would come to make room for him.

[bwgood77]

Our biggest need is a back up guard who can play next to either Book or Rubio. FVV as i mentioned before would be the best target for that. If we manage to sign him it doesn't mean we will trade Rubio or we give him a starter role he would play 30 min off the bench. In that scenario Oubre is the odd man out, it is likely that we're not gonna resign him so we might trade him for a pick and salary cap and sign FVV. Use rest of the cap-space to keep Saric-Payne-Carter and sign a cheaper forward. Draft the BPA available and we're set. I also think FVV might not accept a bench role and Toronto would be foolish to let him go but of course they might wanna save cap-space to pursue a bigger name in the future and he might just want to play here. Letting Oubre go would be tough but if we can get a pick and manage to get a steal i'm ok with it.

I'm not really interested in trading Oubre but if that's the front office's decision, do you think we could package Oubre and #10 to GS to move up to #2?

Probably not but it's possible if they don't see much difference in picks and feel that's the best use of their trade exception. Because they would have no other way of signing him. Then they could still draft a good player....they don't have many avenues to add potential talent.

I wonder who we'd take at 2 though. There really doesn't seem to be that much difference....I do wish we were at like 5 though.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Our biggest need is a back up guard who can play next to either Book or Rubio. FVV as i mentioned before would be the best target for that. If we manage to sign him it doesn't mean we will trade Rubio or we give him a starter role he would play 30 min off the bench. In that scenario Oubre is the odd man out, it is likely that we're not gonna resign him so we might trade him for a pick and salary cap and sign FVV. Use rest of the cap-space to keep Saric-Payne-Carter and sign a cheaper forward. Draft the BPA available and we're set. I also think FVV might not accept a bench role and Toronto would be foolish to let him go but of course they might wanna save cap-space to pursue a bigger name in the future and he might just want to play here. Letting Oubre go would be tough but if we can get a pick and manage to get a steal i'm ok with it.

I'm not really interested in trading Oubre but if that's the front office's decision, do you think we could package Oubre and #10 to GS to move up to #2?

Probably not but it's possible if they don't see much difference in picks and feel that's the best use of their trade exception. Because they would have no other way of signing him. Then they could still draft a good player....they don't have many avenues to add potential talent.

I wonder who we'd take at 2 though. There really doesn't seem to be that much difference....I do wish we were at like 5 though.

... Since Deni and Obi are likely to be there?

Perhaps we trade up to #2, then trade down. Though I imagine if we think there's another cornerstone available, we'll just take him.

[bwgood77]

I'm not really interested in trading Oubre but if that's the front office's decision, do you think we could package Oubre and #10 to GS to move up to #2?

Probably not but it's possible if they don't see much difference in picks and feel that's the best use of their trade exception. Because they would have no other way of signing him. Then they could still draft a good player....they don't have many avenues to add potential talent.

I wonder who we'd take at 2 though. There really doesn't seem to be that much difference....I do wish we were at like 5 though.

... Since Deni and Obi are likely to be there?

Perhaps we trade up to #2, then trade down. Though I imagine if we think there's another cornerstone available, we'll just take him.

I think it's such a crapshoot as to who teams' value, that if you really like 1 guy, you take him and don't mess with trading down. But if we were happy with, say, Deni, Obi or Tyrese, then we could try to trade down to like 4 or 5.

Did you say LaMelo is your #1? I heard a case the other day on a pod (I listened to because I knew the guest) where they made a rationale to where LaMelo could drop to 8...they simply went through every team and the rationale at each spot kind of made sense in some respect. Of course it was a Knicks pod too.

[SlovenianDragon]

If Goran Dragic would come back to the suns I would be in HEAVEN.

Vassell at #10

Keep Dario

Oubre 6th man

Rubio/Dragic
Booker/Vassell
Mikal/Oubre
Cam/Dario/Oubre
Ayton/Diallo/Dario

Something like this looks nice.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Our biggest need is a back up guard who can play next to either Book or Rubio. FVV as i mentioned before would be the best target for that. If we manage to sign him it doesn't mean we will trade Rubio or we give him a starter role he would play 30 min off the bench. In that scenario Oubre is the odd man out, it is likely that we're not gonna resign him so we might trade him for a pick and salary cap and sign FVV. Use rest of the cap-space to keep Saric-Payne-Carter and sign a cheaper forward. Draft the BPA available and we're set. I also think FVV might not accept a bench role and Toronto would be foolish to let him go but of course they might wanna save cap-space to pursue a bigger name in the future and he might just want to play here. Letting Oubre go would be tough but if we can get a pick and manage to get a steal i'm ok with it.

I'm not really interested in trading Oubre but if that's the front office's decision, do you think we could package Oubre and #10 to GS to move up to #2?

I mean if we are going to sign someone like FVV and also keep the most of the band together. We need to create cap-space and easiest way to do that is trading Oubre. About the trade you mention, first i don't think GS can absorb Oubre's contract and also i wouldn't do that trade. This draft is a crapshoot, none of the top prospects looks exciting or ready to contribute from day one. I'd rather keep the 10. Toppin or Haliburton can fall or we can get another solid role player similar to Cam. Getting an extra pick would be way better and if we could nail those two picks it would be huuge.

Looking for some concrete clarification on this please? It was my understanding from proposals on the trade board that Golden state still had Iguodalas' 17.2 million TPE and Golden state fans had mentioned using that to absorb salary in a trade. So IF correct, Then isn't it feasible that they could absorb Oubres' 15 million easy enough?

With that being said, They're ultimately looking for a combination of a quality 2/3 and a center option in any deal for the #2. If we were to explore that route, it would likely have to be a 3 team trade, Wherein they get Oubre and a center prospect. And another team would take Wiggins salary for the 10th pick, With us getting back the 2nd pick. Any solid ideas guys???


Thoughts on this perhaps?
Phoenix/ Memphis/ Golden state
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yxbpmzaq

Or this variation perhaps?
Phoenix/ Memphis/ Golden State/ New York
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yyskq99j
- Memphis gets- A lottery pick back in this draft 10th pick / a shooting guard ( Ellington) / an upgrade at the 3 in Wiggins/ * The Minnesota 2021 Top 3 protected first.

- Golden State gets Oubre and Valuncias, So they get much stronger and ready to again compete as a potential top seed.

- New York gets Winslow ( *Thibs loves his versatile defensive players) who can play in the backcourt and share ball handling duties too. They also get the 2nd overall pick!!! meaning that they now have a chance at Ball. And Ball would be amazing in the backcourt with Winslow. And Ty Jerome ( A New York Iona prodigy).
- Phoenix takes back Payton and Gibson. **Both come off the books in 2021. And we also get back the 8th and 38th picks.
In getting the 8th pick, We can now guarantee ourselves at least one of Vassell/ Toppin or Hayes. Before either New York or Washington might choose to take them before us?

And at 38, We can draft a cheap yet talented backup center prospect as insurance for Baynes potentially leaving. Then we bring every on back on short term deals.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Probably not but it's possible if they don't see much difference in picks and feel that's the best use of their trade exception. Because they would have no other way of signing him. Then they could still draft a good player....they don't have many avenues to add potential talent.

I wonder who we'd take at 2 though. There really doesn't seem to be that much difference....I do wish we were at like 5 though.

... Since Deni and Obi are likely to be there?

Perhaps we trade up to #2, then trade down. Though I imagine if we think there's another cornerstone available, we'll just take him.

I think it's such a crapshoot as to who teams' value, that if you really like 1 guy, you take him and don't mess with trading down. But if we were happy with, say, Deni, Obi or Tyrese, then we could try to trade down to like 4 or 5.

Did you say LaMelo is your #1? I heard a case the other day on a pod (I listened to because I knew the guest) where they made a rationale to where LaMelo could drop to 8...they simply went through every team and the rationale at each spot kind of made sense in some respect. Of course it was a Knicks pod too.

Interesting to hear LaMelo could drop so far. If it wasn't for the defensive concerns I'd say that pod is crazy.

He was #1 on my board when I thought about it for too long this morning, but by the afternoon, I was leaning Okongwu again. Who knows who it'll be tomorrow.

How long before Toppin and Avdija are as good as Kelly Oubre? Who will be the first of LaMelo, Hayes, Wiseman, Pokusevski and Edwards to become a plus NBA player?

Would a team made up of the players taken 11-20 in this draft beat the players selected 1-10? I guess my answer to this last question depends on what side of #10 Toppin, Vassell, Haliburton and Okongwu end up on.

Yeah, I don't want the #2 pick.

[King4Day]

Our biggest need is a back up guard who can play next to either Book or Rubio. FVV as i mentioned before would be the best target for that. If we manage to sign him it doesn't mean we will trade Rubio or we give him a starter role he would play 30 min off the bench. In that scenario Oubre is the odd man out, it is likely that we're not gonna resign him so we might trade him for a pick and salary cap and sign FVV. Use rest of the cap-space to keep Saric-Payne-Carter and sign a cheaper forward. Draft the BPA available and we're set. I also think FVV might not accept a bench role and Toronto would be foolish to let him go but of course they might wanna save cap-space to pursue a bigger name in the future and he might just want to play here. Letting Oubre go would be tough but if we can get a pick and manage to get a steal i'm ok with it.

I'm not really interested in trading Oubre but if that's the front office's decision, do you think we could package Oubre and #10 to GS to move up to #2?

Probably not but it's possible if they don't see much difference in picks and feel that's the best use of their trade exception. Because they would have no other way of signing him. Then they could still draft a good player....they don't have many avenues to add potential talent.

I wonder who we'd take at 2 though. There really doesn't seem to be that much difference....I do wish we were at like 5 though.

I think they'd do it tbh. They have the trade exception and likely aren't going to find another player like him on the market.
Problem is, I don't care enough about anyone at 2 to think that deal could be worth it. However, that Devi guy from overseas has me intrigued. Probably the only player in the draft I'm interested in. I feel like he's ready to go and would fit in well off the bench. But who knows.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Probably not but it's possible if they don't see much difference in picks and feel that's the best use of their trade exception. Because they would have no other way of signing him. Then they could still draft a good player....they don't have many avenues to add potential talent.

I wonder who we'd take at 2 though. There really doesn't seem to be that much difference....I do wish we were at like 5 though.

... Since Deni and Obi are likely to be there?

Perhaps we trade up to #2, then trade down. Though I imagine if we think there's another cornerstone available, we'll just take him.

I think it's such a crapshoot as to who teams' value, that if you really like 1 guy, you take him and don't mess with trading down. But if we were happy with, say, Deni, Obi or Tyrese, then we could try to trade down to like 4 or 5.

Did you say LaMelo is your #1? I heard a case the other day on a pod (I listened to because I knew the guest) where they made a rationale to where LaMelo could drop to 8...they simply went through every team and the rationale at each spot kind of made sense in some respect. Of course it was a Knicks pod too.

I heard a case the other day on a pod (I listened to because I knew the guest) where they made a rationale to where LaMelo could drop to 8...

That wouldn't be Ben Pfeifer on the prep to pro podcast by chance would it man?

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4abVNmfui8rBE7kFO22oRc?si=WbIMk-vbRNqReCa3Hj3yRA

Any which way you slice it, I just can't see all of Minnesota (1) / Golden state(2)/ Chicago(4)/ Atlanta (6)/ Detroit (7) / New York ( 8). All passing on Ball. It just won't happen. I don't think he makes it past Chicago for sure. And definitely not past Detroit! Anyways, It'll be an interesting night for sure.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Phoenix Suns

Offseason focus

Own free agents vs. cap flexibility: Can create up to $20 million if Aron Baynes, Dario Saric, Cheick Diallo and Frank Kaminsky are not retained

Don't take for granted that Devin Booker has four years remaining on his contract: Where does the help come from in the offseason?

The expiring contract of Kelly Oubre: is the forward now expendable?

Draft assets

First: No. 10

Second: None

Future: The Suns own all of their future first-round picks

Cash: $4.5 million (to receive) | $5.6 million (to send)

Cap space breakdown

The free agency of Baynes and Saric will dictate the Suns' flexibility this offseason. Both players have a combined cap hold of $21 million, pushing Phoenix over the cap.

Removing the free-agent holds of Baynes and Saric would leave the Suns with $15 million in room. Cap space would increase to $20 million if the team options of Kaminsky and Diallo are declined.

Phoenix has until Oct. 17 to decide on the team options for Frank Kaminsky ($5.0 million), Cameron Payne ($2.0 million) and Cheick Diallo ($1.8 million). The Payne contract has only $25,009 in protection if the team option is exercised.

The Suns have until Oct. 17 to tender a qualifying offer to Dario Saric ($5.0 million) and Jevon Carter ($1.9 million).

Elie Okobo has a $1.7 million non-guaranteed contract that becomes fully protected if he is on the roster past October 27.

If the Suns act as a team under the cap, they will have the $5.0 million room midlevel available. Bringing the same roster back leaves Phoenix with the $9.3 million midlevel and $3.6 million bi-annual exceptions.

Suns' Projected Depth Chart

PG- Rubio/ Payne(T)/ Okobo( T).
SG- D. Booker/ T. Jerome/ J. Lecque.
SF- M. Bridges/ C. Johnson.
PF- K. Oubre Jr/ F. Kaminsky (T).
C- D. Ayton/ C. Diallo
(1)J. Lecque1 = non-guaranteed.
T = Team option.

Team needs

Bench depth at every position

Extension eligible: Elie Okobo

Free-agent status

Aron Baynes | Bird

Jevon Carter | Restricted | Early-Bird

Cheick Diallo | Team | Non-Bird

Frank Kaminsky | Team | Non-Bird

Dario Saric | Restricted | Bird

Cameron Payne | Team | Non-Bird

Tariq Owens | Restricted | Non-Bird

[SunsLyf3]

What do people expect FVV will command on the FA market? Marks said $25M to $30M. That doesn't sound reasonable to me. What is an estimate?

Third leading scorer on a contender. Super durable, averages close to 36 mpg. Excellent defender, great 3p shooter, very good passer.
26 years old but with a ton of playoffs experience.

$100M / 4 years.

Then we need to stay the F away from him. That alone should be enough for Suns to say naw. He's a really good system player. I'd rather keep Rubios playmaking.

[SunsLyf3]

If Goran Dragic would come back to the suns I would be in HEAVEN.

Vassell at #10

Keep Dario

Oubre 6th man

Rubio/Dragic
Booker/Vassell
Mikal/Oubre
Cam/Dario/Oubre
Ayton/Diallo/Dario

Something like this looks nice.

Give me Dragic at his age over FVV and his market value.