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Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1161 » by bwgood77 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:14 am

SunsFanSSOL wrote:Nash has never been loyal. He left a consistent 50+ win Mavs team with his best friend Dirk to join a 29 win Suns team because we offered him more money. Barkley would have been a better option for the video, he still calls the Suns his team and lives in PHX.


So I take it you are not a fan of Nash? Though you obviously can still be a fan of what he did for the Suns but have no loyalty to him at this point. That is kind of where I am at, and I'm guessing you are.

I am just always more vested in the guys who spent most of their entire careers with the Suns and especially those who retired with them.

I'd love to see Burning Heart chime in on his thoughts on the video.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1162 » by SunsFanSSOL » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:21 am

bwgood77 wrote:
SunsFanSSOL wrote:Nash has never been loyal. He left a consistent 50+ win Mavs team with his best friend Dirk to join a 29 win Suns team because we offered him more money. Barkley would have been a better option for the video, he still calls the Suns his team and lives in PHX.


So I take it you are not a fan of Nash? Though you obviously can still be a fan of what he did for the Suns but have no loyalty to him at this point. That is kind of where I am at, and I'm guessing you are.

I am just always more vested in the guys who spent most of their entire careers with the Suns and especially those who retired with them.

I'd love to see Burning Heart chime in on his thoughts on the video.


Nash was dead to me the minute he went to the Lakers.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1163 » by plonden » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:42 am

Here's a ranking of the NBA's starting point guards by Michael Pina. Bledsoe clocked in at a respectable ninth.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1164 » by bwgood77 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:46 am

plonden wrote:Here's a ranking of the NBA's starting point guards by Michael Pina. Bledsoe clocked in at a respectable ninth.


I'd like to see the thoughts of this ranking on the general board.

12. Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls
11. Kyle Lowry, Toronto Raptors
10. Tony Parker, San Antonio Spurs
9. Eric Bledsoe, Phoenix Suns

Personally I'd take Bledsoe over the others, but I would be interested to see what others thought, and I'm guessing it would be interesting. Maybe I will post on the general board, but they may want it on the player comparison forum...I guess I will find out.

OK, I just posted it on the PC board, so if you want to see other people's thoughts, you can do so here... viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1407211
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1165 » by letsgosuns » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:53 am

Like SunsFanSSOL, I was also disappointed Nash went to the Lakers. I could not believe it when it happened. I remember thinking he was going to go back to Dallas or go to NY with Amare. When I saw the breaking news at the time that he was signing with the Lakers I was flabbergasted. Since then, I never felt the same way about Nash. I really do not care about him ever coming back and working with the Suns. Yes he provided the organization with some of the greatest years in franchise history, but he never won more than two WCF games. I still consider Barkley the all-time greatest Sun and it is honestly not even close.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1166 » by bwgood77 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:00 am

letsgosuns wrote:Like SunsFanSSOL, I was also disappointed Nash went to the Lakers. I could not believe it when it happened. I remember thinking he was going to go back to Dallas or go to NY with Amare. When I saw the breaking news at the time that he was signing with the Lakers I was flabbergasted. Since then, I never felt the same way about Nash. I really do not care about him ever coming back and working with the Suns. Yes he provided the organization with some of the greatest years in franchise history, but he never won more than two WCF games. I still consider Barkley the all-time greatest Sun and it is honestly not even close.


I understand your Nash take but am surprised given what you said about Nash, that you would actually choose Barkley as your all time favorite Sun unless it is just nostalgia. He partied too hard after we were up 3-1 against Houston and we blew the series, and then two years later, he is playing for them. Greatest Sun...he is FAR from that. Greatest player who was a Sun at one point? Maybe.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1167 » by tdjm » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:04 am

I'm really just kind of indifferent to Nash and that whole era in general. It was fun, it was novel, it changed how people perceived the game, but it was immensely bittersweet. I wouldn't want to re-live those days and I don't care if the memory isn't enough to make Steve Nash want to be part of the organization. He was an employee here, and now he's moving on - as it should be, and how it is in every other professional field.

I do think the video was corny as hell and poorly timed, though.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1168 » by letsgosuns » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:07 am

bwgood77 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:Like SunsFanSSOL, I was also disappointed Nash went to the Lakers. I could not believe it when it happened. I remember thinking he was going to go back to Dallas or go to NY with Amare. When I saw the breaking news at the time that he was signing with the Lakers I was flabbergasted. Since then, I never felt the same way about Nash. I really do not care about him ever coming back and working with the Suns. Yes he provided the organization with some of the greatest years in franchise history, but he never won more than two WCF games. I still consider Barkley the all-time greatest Sun and it is honestly not even close.


I understand your Nash take but am surprised given what you said about Nash, that you would actually choose Barkley as your all time favorite Sun unless it is just nostalgia. He partied too hard after we were up 3-1 against Houston and we blew the series, and then two years later, he is playing for them. Greatest Sun...he is FAR from that. Greatest player who was a Sun at one point? Maybe.


Who do you think is better?
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1169 » by plonden » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:15 am

bwgood77 wrote:
plonden wrote:Here's a ranking of the NBA's starting point guards by Michael Pina. Bledsoe clocked in at a respectable ninth.


I'd like to see the thoughts of this ranking on the general board.

12. Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls
11. Kyle Lowry, Toronto Raptors
10. Tony Parker, San Antonio Spurs
9. Eric Bledsoe, Phoenix Suns

Personally I'd take Bledsoe over the others, but I would be interested to see what others thought, and I'm guessing it would be interesting. Maybe I will post on the general board, but they may want it on the player comparison forum...I guess I will find out.

OK, I just posted it on the PC board, so if you want to see other people's thoughts, you can do so here... viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1407211

At this point in their careers, I wouldn't swap Bledsoe for any of these guys. I'd probably bump Lowry up to tenth and then flip Parker and Rose. Parker's age, and more importantly his NBA and international competition mileage, are finally catching up to him. I think he's going to start to decline considerably this season. Patty Mills is a very capable backup PG and may even end up splitting time evenly with Parker. I doubt Rose will ever be the player he once was. Chicago is now Jimmy Butler's team. Even though he plays off guard, I expect the ball to be in Butler's hands much more often this season, especially in crunch time. Rose needs to adjust his game to become a complimentary piece to Jimmy Buckets. Hard to say if he will accept such a role. Lowry is an above average PG but I think he's playing at his ceiling right now. His main problem is that Toronto's team lack complimentary pieces. He shares the back-court with DeMar DeRozan, who is a decent, albeit inefficient scorer. DeMarre Carroll will be a nice addition as a three and D glue guy, but Toronto still has a lot of holes.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1170 » by SideSwipe » Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:08 am

GoranTragic wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:We're in a low self esteem cycle. Please 8th seed, please don't reject me, I love the 8th seed. I'll play PJ Tucker @ PF it's not so bad we can work it out, I've changed so much I've got a new C, our past PF is in the past now.


I know seriously. Everyone needs to relax. Maybe this team will surprise everyone in the upcoming season. It wouldn't be the first time :D



Well getting back to the serious stuff, there are a few elements of "surprise" going in our favor this year. For all of the 40+ years we never had a great effective big man, we now find ourselves with two. One a little older than ideal, one a little younger than ideal, but two big-men with legit size that bring some of the things the Suns always felt they lacked over the years. Size, Defense, and rebounding. In Len we may yet have a scorer too- though that remains to be fully realized.

Also, although unorthodox, we do still have two quality guards which will give us depth and dynamic strength in the backcourt. We'll see if that pans out, but the strength at the positions is un-doubtable.

Morris and Tucker are passable at the 3 and 4 spots- with Markieff being the better filler and player. I think one more player of real quality (all-star or just below) at either position would be ideal, but we have some strength there even without them. Our bench has taken a bit of a hit, I think this year, though some of that may be calculated to give Warren, Booker more time. We have some guys with potential, but nothing sure-fire with a group of people who are either coming back to the league (Weems), back from injury (Teletovic) or back from oblivion (Price, Jon Leuer). I have some hope for Henry Sims, as I think he may be talented enough to have around as backfill at the 4 or 5, maybe Jefferson too, though I think less-so for him.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1171 » by ryanball » Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:44 am

plonden wrote:Here's a ranking of the NBA's starting point guards by Michael Pina. Bledsoe clocked in at a respectable ninth.


Westbrook very much overrated, although I've come to expect that. I'd move him down at least to below Lillard, possibly further.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1172 » by Leapinlarry22 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:07 am

letsgosuns wrote:Like SunsFanSSOL, I was also disappointed Nash went to the Lakers. I could not believe it when it happened. I remember thinking he was going to go back to Dallas or go to NY with Amare. When I saw the breaking news at the time that he was signing with the Lakers I was flabbergasted. Since then, I never felt the same way about Nash. I really do not care about him ever coming back and working with the Suns. Yes he provided the organization with some of the greatest years in franchise history, but he never won more than two WCF games. I still consider Barkley the all-time greatest Sun and it is honestly not even close.


He didn't sign with the Lakers, the Suns traded him to the Lakers and ripped them off in the process. He's a Sun, he helped us rip off the lakers, he barely played there. The Suns should have traded him 2 years earlier when the contending window was closed.


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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1173 » by letsgosuns » Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:45 am

Leapinlarry22 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:Like SunsFanSSOL, I was also disappointed Nash went to the Lakers. I could not believe it when it happened. I remember thinking he was going to go back to Dallas or go to NY with Amare. When I saw the breaking news at the time that he was signing with the Lakers I was flabbergasted. Since then, I never felt the same way about Nash. I really do not care about him ever coming back and working with the Suns. Yes he provided the organization with some of the greatest years in franchise history, but he never won more than two WCF games. I still consider Barkley the all-time greatest Sun and it is honestly not even close.


He didn't sign with the Lakers, the Suns traded him to the Lakers and ripped them off in the process. He's a Sun, he helped us rip off the lakers, he barely played there. The Suns should have traded him 2 years earlier when the contending window was closed.


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Nash was an unrestricted free agent. He was signed and traded to the Lakers because the Lakers did not have the cap space to sign him outright. If they did, he would have just signed with them without a sign and trade. He was absorbed into the trade exception they had. He also asked Robert Sarver to make it happen. I remember watching Sarver talk about it when it happened. Sarver said his first reaction was no. Then he said his second reaction was HELL NO. But Nash and his agent asked him to do it so Sarver obliged.

The point is that he chose to sign with the Lakers over any other team. His reasoning was that he would be close to his kids while still having the chance to play for a championship. NY was too far away from his kids supposedly. It also did not hurt that the Lakers gave him a really competitive offer of 3 years, 27 million dollars.

This was the quote that made me so disappointed he signed with the Lakers: ["The truth is I'm a bit old school," Nash said in the June 25 interview. "For me, it would be hard to put on a Lakers jersey. That's just the way it is. You play against them so many times in the playoffs, and I just use them as an example, and I have the utmost respect for them and their organization.] http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8130840/steve-nash-headed-los-angeles-lakers-sign-trade-deal
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1174 » by Safety Pickle » Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:25 am

ryanball wrote:
plonden wrote:Here's a ranking of the NBA's starting point guards by Michael Pina. Bledsoe clocked in at a respectable ninth.


Westbrook very much overrated, although I've come to expect that. I'd move him down at least to below Lillard, possibly further.


You think Liliard is better than Westbrook? The same Lilliard that plays zero defense and is a worse scorer than Westbrook? Gotta be kidding
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1175 » by DirtyDez » Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:32 am

JacobHoward wrote:
SunsFanSSOL wrote:Nash has never been loyal. He left a consistent 50+ win Mavs team with his best friend Dirk to join a 29 win Suns team because we offered him more money. Barkley would have been a better option for the video, he still calls the Suns his team and lives in PHX.

Mark Cuban offered Nash less money because he didn't think Steve would be able to stay healthy. Why should he have been loyal to a team that didn't believe in him? And at that point in his career, who wouldn't have gone to a team offering significantly more money?


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Not only money but a significantly more important role running the team. Screw loyalty. If you wanna be the greatest player you can be then selfishness is required.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1176 » by Mulhollanddrive » Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:47 am

Debate needs more John Wall.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1177 » by JohnWall2 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:45 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Debate needs more John Wall.


I'm here
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1178 » by Jdiddy701 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:39 pm

Well at least Amare said, "I will never sign with the Spurs." Nash should have said the same about the Lakers.


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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1179 » by NTB » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:15 pm

Jdiddy701 wrote:Well at least Amare said, "I will never sign with the Spurs." Nash should have said the same about the Lakers.


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Amare didn't say "I will never sign with the Lakers" and Nash didn't sign with the Spurs either.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1180 » by Jarlaxle0204 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:44 pm

Personally, I'll always love Nash. Probably my favorite player ever followed by Barkley and KJ. Those teams were the most fun teams I've ever watched. Nash always left it all on the floor. By the time he left us, he was pretty much done. Most had wanted him to leave years prior. I don't blame Nash (although it was upsetting initially seeing him going to the Lakers). Now I thank him. He often mentions in interviews his love for the team and says that playing in Phoenix were some of the best times of his life. You think he would have done the video at all if he didn't feel some sort of ties to the team?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I'll always be in the pro Steve Nash camp. Looking forward to his ROH induction and eventual HOF induction.

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