2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

[mg]

Love is beloved in NE Ohio as part of the big 3 that got them their first championship in like 52 years. I'd much rather give the $ to him than to some roleplayer like George Hill similar what the Kings end up doing every year in FA.

[lilfishi22]

If the lakers were to propose 2 First Round Picks and Deng for Chandler and Daniels, would you pull the trigger?


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I would say $%##% the Lakers. first of all the late first round picks are really not that valuable and I really am not in the mood to help the Lakers.

The problem with this trade is that the Suns could easily stretch Deng - but would lose like 6m of cap space for three years. Two picks in the late teens to 20's are not worth that. The Lakers would have to include a real asset like Kyle Kuzma over a draft pick. And I probably still wouldn't do it. The Lakers can just stretch Deng themselves next summer.

I just don't like it - if the Suns wanted to become part of a three way deal say with the Cavs for Love -- and something like the following happens - might be more amenable

Lakers: Daniels Chandler
CAvs: Warren, Deng, picks from the Lakers
Suns: Love

but I just think taking Deng is bad news for next summer. Suns can easily have 12m to mid 20's of cap space depending on Chriss, Bender, the draft pick, etc.

If we're looking to stretch someone, it would be Knight and his remaining 13m ($4m for 3year at the end of the upcoming season. If we're going to pay someone for 3 years that won't play for us, I'd rather it be $4m vs Deng's $6m. Aside from that, I have zero interest in helping the Lakers and I don't think we're at a stage in our rebuild to need more first round picks. We're at a stage where we should be trying to get value from what we've tanked so hard for the past half decade or so. If we're 'helping' LA, I would want somewhat proven assets like a Kuz or Ingram or even Ball. Obviously they would say no but if that's the case, then we have nothing to discuss.

[DirtyDez]

Since when do injury-prone players suddenly become durable at 30?

Grant Hill
Steve Nash

should’ve specified...

**That didn’t have access to Aaron Nelson**

[lilfishi22]

Kevin Love talk can cease and desist:

Read on Twitter

I'm legitimately shocked the Cavs are going this route instead of a rebuild.

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Likewise. I thought, at most, they would see what they have with Love this upcoming season and give him the option to stick around or not the season after. He's near untradeable now

[lilfishi22]

Love is now more tradeable than ever. He's locked into an expense with a definitive time. No free agent walking. . It might be considered an over pay, but gawd, most of these contracts seem that way. Love is one of those guys that if he remains healthy, his game stays solid. Not like if he loses a step it will matter mucr. Skill overrides athleticism as players age. And his game will always be valuable in todays league. enough of the Love love.

I haven't noticed if he worked in a no trade clause or player options. But I don't see this a negative for Cleve at all (see BobbyL above) They want to rebuild next yr, then just move Love for young pieces. There will be many teams interested if he is tabled, as cap space will be available.

Part of Love's trade value before this extension is knowing that he's only in the books for another 2 seasons. You know if it doesn't work out, you have $25m coming off the books in two seasons. That's a huge plus. With him tacking on another 3 seasons to his deal now, at $30m a year and running into mid-30's, who wants to touch that?

I get his game isn't entirely dependent on his athleticism and *should* age well but even playing pretty much a low-impact, off the ball style and just shooting spot up shots the last 2 seasons, he hasn't even been able to play more than 60 games.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Love is now more tradeable than ever. He's locked into an expense with a definitive time. No free agent walking. . It might be considered an over pay, but gawd, most of these contracts seem that way. Love is one of those guys that if he remains healthy, his game stays solid. Not like if he loses a step it will matter mucr. Skill overrides athleticism as players age. And his game will always be valuable in todays league. enough of the Love love.

I haven't noticed if he worked in a no trade clause or player options. But I don't see this a negative for Cleve at all (see BobbyL above) They want to rebuild next yr, then just move Love for young pieces. There will be many teams interested if he is tabled, as cap space will be available.

Part of Love's trade value before this extension is knowing that he's only in the books for another 2 seasons. You know if it doesn't work out, you have $25m coming off the books in two seasons. That's a huge plus. With him tacking on another 3 seasons to his deal now, at $30m a year and running into mid-30's, who wants to touch that?

A team that can't attract better free agents, that's who. He's still a 20-10 guy in the league who spreads the floor and who showed the capacity to be more than that before he joined Cleveland. What if he has a great start to the season? What might we say around the deadline then?

The thing is this. There will be an incredible amount of cap space available next season. Look at this ridiculous ****: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2019/ . Our $20 million barely registers! Plenty of players might be willing to take huge one-year deals next year, too, meaning there could be a whole lot more liquidity in free agency on a going-forward basis . With several big market teams having the ability to pay max contracts, small-market teams might have even less leverage with free agents going forward. So if you're a small-market team, longevity might be a bigger plus. It's not like $30 million per is crazy money anymore. Cleveland's a smaller market than Phoenix, so I get it.

Here's the other thing. Tanking isn't in every circumstance the wisest approach. If Kevin plays better in Lebron's absence, that contract could have significant value. You might even trade it for draft picks down the line. The price of a draft pick for cap space dump has hugely declined over the last couple years as more and more teams maintain financial flexibility. You might have better luck acquiring valuable assets by having actual NBA players like Kevin Love available to trade to a team that needs him.

[bwgood77]

Love is now more tradeable than ever. He's locked into an expense with a definitive time. No free agent walking. . It might be considered an over pay, but gawd, most of these contracts seem that way. Love is one of those guys that if he remains healthy, his game stays solid. Not like if he loses a step it will matter mucr. Skill overrides athleticism as players age. And his game will always be valuable in todays league. enough of the Love love.

I haven't noticed if he worked in a no trade clause or player options. But I don't see this a negative for Cleve at all (see BobbyL above) They want to rebuild next yr, then just move Love for young pieces. There will be many teams interested if he is tabled, as cap space will be available.

Part of Love's trade value before this extension is knowing that he's only in the books for another 2 seasons. You know if it doesn't work out, you have $25m coming off the books in two seasons. That's a huge plus. With him tacking on another 3 seasons to his deal now, at $30m a year and running into mid-30's, who wants to touch that?

A team that can't attract better free agents, that's who. He's still a 20-10 guy in the league who spreads the floor and who showed the capacity to be more than that before he joined Cleveland. What if he has a great start to the season? What might we say around the deadline then?

The thing is this. There will be an incredible amount of cap space available next season. Look at this ridiculous ****: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2019/ . Our $20 million barely registers! Plenty of players might be willing to take huge one-year deals next year, too, meaning there could be a whole lot more liquidity in free agency on a going-forward basis . With several big market teams having the ability to pay max contracts, small-market teams might have even less leverage with free agents going forward. So if you're a small-market team, longevity might be a bigger plus. It's not like $30 million per is crazy money anymore. Cleveland's a smaller market than Phoenix, so I get it.

Here's the other thing. Tanking isn't in every circumstance the wisest approach. If Kevin plays better in Lebron's absence, that contract could have significant value. You might even trade it for draft picks down the line. The price of a draft pick for cap space dump has hugely declined over the last couple years as more and more teams maintain financial flexibility. You might have better luck acquiring valuable assets by having actual NBA players like Kevin Love available to trade to a team that needs him.

Yeah, I'm guessing his numbers look a lot better being the #1 option again. Now he probably can't be the #1 option on a contender, but he could be a piece. I think players really have to adjust their game to LeBron since he likes to run everything.

[lilfishi22]

Love is now more tradeable than ever. He's locked into an expense with a definitive time. No free agent walking. . It might be considered an over pay, but gawd, most of these contracts seem that way. Love is one of those guys that if he remains healthy, his game stays solid. Not like if he loses a step it will matter mucr. Skill overrides athleticism as players age. And his game will always be valuable in todays league. enough of the Love love.

I haven't noticed if he worked in a no trade clause or player options. But I don't see this a negative for Cleve at all (see BobbyL above) They want to rebuild next yr, then just move Love for young pieces. There will be many teams interested if he is tabled, as cap space will be available.

Part of Love's trade value before this extension is knowing that he's only in the books for another 2 seasons. You know if it doesn't work out, you have $25m coming off the books in two seasons. That's a huge plus. With him tacking on another 3 seasons to his deal now, at $30m a year and running into mid-30's, who wants to touch that?

A team that can't attract better free agents, that's who. He's still a 20-10 guy in the league who spreads the floor and who showed the capacity to be more than that before he joined Cleveland. What if he has a great start to the season? What might we say around the deadline then?

The thing is this. There will be an incredible amount of cap space available next season. Look at this ridiculous ****: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2019/ . Our $20 million barely registers! Plenty of players might be willing to take huge one-year deals next year, too, meaning there could be a whole lot more liquidity in free agency on a going-forward basis . With several big market teams having the ability to pay max contracts, small-market teams might have even less leverage with free agents going forward. So if you're a small-market team, longevity might be a bigger plus. It's not like $30 million per is crazy money anymore. Cleveland's a smaller market than Phoenix, so I get it.

Here's the other thing. Tanking isn't in every circumstance the wisest approach. If Kevin plays better in Lebron's absence, that contract could have significant value. You might even trade it for draft picks down the line. The price of a draft pick for cap space dump has hugely declined over the last couple years as more and more teams maintain financial flexibility. You might have better luck acquiring valuable assets by having actual NBA players like Kevin Love available to trade to a team that needs him.

I'll say this, I was surprised ANYONE traded for Blake given his 5year max extension so I'll never say love is untradeable but I think he'll be near untradeable. Most teams seem to have learn from 2016 and 2017 about giving giant long-term deals to players who just aren't worth it. As you've mentioned, teams are seemingly more cautious about the free agent class and are more prudent in planning around top FA's being available to offer the big bucks to them rather than just spending everything on whatever is available.

$30m isn't as big of a number as it once was but it still is especially if you're probably in need of a rebuild and resigning a 30 year old who's played only 60 games over the past 2 seasons while playing stretch 5 isn't a great idea. If he wasn't worth a 1st rounder before he resigned, is he really worth anymore after turning 30 (in about a month) and having been an injury risk the past two seasons? My issue is less about the dollar figure and more about the length + dollar figure + injury history. I haven't even mentioned his lack of defense.

I honestly would've been somewhat OK had we gone through with a Love trade this offseason/last trade deadline because we would've had two seasons with him in the books and seeing what he has to offer. But now, I just can't fathom adding $145m for a guy like Love at 30, regardless of his fit with Ayton. I don't expect Love to play out his contract in Cleveland, I'm just thinking ahead to what they'll have to give up or take back just to move him a couple seasons down the line.

[jredsaz]

Even if we wildly exceed my expectations I can't see any reasonable way that we would be considered a contender by next summer. I'll be happy to be wrong though.

I'm not sure if you are saying you expect a good showing from Knight or that IF we get a good showing from Knight you expect 38 wins.

I hope he's better with Kokoskov, but it's hard to expect much.

I don't think anyone would have chosen him to start over Bledsoe when Bledsoe was here, and that was obviously before his injury, and I don't think many would want Bledsoe back as our PG even if he wanted to come back on a reasonable deal.

It will be interesting to see if he can really transform his game with some new coaching. I hope so.

I think that Knight is going to average 16 and 6 assist this season.

I hope he doesn't score that much unless he can get his TS% up to around his second half year in Milwaukee. Outside of those 52 games he has never had a year really above 52%.

And as long as the assists come without the 4 turnovers that would be good. If he can be at least a 2-1 ratio there I guess it would be ok for him. He's never had a year with a 2-1 ast/to ratio.

Lol. Knight is so awful

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[jredsaz]

I hope he doesn't score that much unless he can get his TS% up to around his second half year in Milwaukee. Outside of those 52 games he has never had a year really above 52%.

And as long as the assists come without the 4 turnovers that would be good. If he can be at least a 2-1 ratio there I guess it would be ok for him. He's never had a year with a 2-1 ast/to ratio.

No matter who we have , Suns fans will talk crap!

I hope Knight avg 15/8 and less than 3 turnovers a game! I hope he shines ! I believe in him, and hope he comes out strong with hustle!

We would all be thrilled with 15/8 from Knight.


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There is no way Knight averages 8 assists. He isn't that player. I just hope he moves the ball and knocks down shots at a decent efficiency instead of pounding the ball and either chucking or turning it over.

If he does maybe we can trade him at the deadline for an expiring plus a decent asset. That is the best case scenario imo.

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[jredsaz]

Is there anything worse we could do besides giving 2 19 y/os an off season with **** earl watson? No. Literally, there is nothing worse. Everyone calm TF down.

It's kinda true tho

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[jredsaz]

If the lakers were to propose 2 First Round Picks and Deng for Chandler and Daniels, would you pull the trigger?


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If they are unprotected in 2020 and 2022 you got yourself a deal.

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[jredsaz]

Kevin Love talk can cease and desist:

Read on Twitter

I'm legitimately shocked the Cavs are going this route instead of a rebuild.

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Love was due 24m
player option of 25m for 19/20
so thats about 50m

this deal is 145/5

my question to Dan Gilbert and Koby Altman - why are you giving a 31 year old Kevin Love 90m for 3 years. maybe millsap got something like that; lowry - but damn, thats a great deal for Love

atlanta might be happy about this - that top 10 pick protection just went down - meaning more likely for Atlanta.

I think Love averages 22+ and 10+. But I dont know if he plays more than 55 games.

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[NTB]

Read on Twitter

[bwgood77]

If the lakers were to propose 2 First Round Picks and Deng for Chandler and Daniels, would you pull the trigger?


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If they are unprotected in 2020 and 2022 you got yourself a deal.

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They wouldn't propose it now because it doesn't clear any space this summer for them. Now next summer if we can't find a way to use our cap space wisely on a player who is a difference maker, I might consider simply absorbing his salary for 2 firsts since he'd only have 1 year left.

They might be better served to stretch him though unless they need the extra $6 million or so in cap space.

Hopefully we can use our cap space on someone meaningful next summer, and stretch Knight.

[lilfishi22]

If the lakers were to propose 2 First Round Picks and Deng for Chandler and Daniels, would you pull the trigger?


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If they are unprotected in 2020 and 2022 you got yourself a deal.

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When LA are suppose to have signed their two max FA's? Nahhhhhhh

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

aTHREEza?

[jredsaz]

If the lakers were to propose 2 First Round Picks and Deng for Chandler and Daniels, would you pull the trigger?


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If they are unprotected in 2020 and 2022 you got yourself a deal.

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When LA are suppose to have signed their two max FA's? Nahhhhhhh

Obviously it depends on who they sign but by 2022 LeBron is on the downside of his career and it could be the double draft. No way the Lakers offer this so the point is moot.

[jredsaz]

If the lakers were to propose 2 First Round Picks and Deng for Chandler and Daniels, would you pull the trigger?


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If they are unprotected in 2020 and 2022 you got yourself a deal.

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They wouldn't propose it now because it doesn't clear any space this summer for them. Now next summer if we can't find a way to use our cap space wisely on a player who is a difference maker, I might consider simply absorbing his salary for 2 firsts since he'd only have 1 year left.

They might be better served to stretch him though unless they need the extra $6 million or so in cap space.

Hopefully we can use our cap space on someone meaningful next summer, and stretch Knight.

The Lakers wont give up two unprotected picks now or next offseason so it's a moot point.

[lilfishi22]

If they are unprotected in 2020 and 2022 you got yourself a deal.

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When LA are suppose to have signed their two max FA's? Nahhhhhhh

Obviously it depends on who they sign but by 2022 LeBron is on the downside of his career and it could be the double draft. No way the Lakers offer this so the point is moot.

You'll need to do this deal by the trade deadline otherwise they won't have the 2 max cap spaces they're looking for next offseason. The whole point is to have Chandler and Daniels coming off the books. Lebron will be on the downside but the plan is to surround him with stars who can carry the long regular season load.

But you're right, it's a moot point