Free agency and trade ideas: Which wings do we go after this summer?

[Crives]

To me with Jackson it's hard to see an end game where he fits past his rookie deal that ends in two years. Who's he going to jump in the long term pecking order? Booker is just starting a 5 year deal and obviously not going anywhere. I would bet oubre is about to sign a 4 or 5 year deal and he's longer and generally better than Josh and only 1 year older, he's probably here for a while. Bridges has about 100 times the BBIQ of Josh and is a much better fit overall plus he's still on a rookie deal for 3 more years. As of right now Warren is still on the team and ahead of Josh, now decent chance he gets dealt.

So even if Josh improves to the point of not sucking its hard to see him getting a long term contract when he's up in two years. Plus they will need to decide whether to pick up his 9 mil 4th year extension in November. As of now he hasn't justified that and if you don't pick that up you might as well get rid of him because he'll walk after the year anyway and he also strikes me as the type who may not take that decision well and be a tough guy to be around.

People say 'be paitient and he's only 22' but decisions need to be made soon on him.

Jones chose not to pick up Benders 4th year option last year and considering the lack of depth at the 4 vs the wing spot there was a better argument for picking his up than joshs this coming year.

Now on the flip side they cut their losses with Chriss and used him in part to get Melton and that was the better use of an asset than what they did with Bender. There's a lesson to be learned there. Part of rebuilding with young players is learning when to cut bait and move on, not every pick works out.

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I’m not sure we need a starting spot for Josh. He could be our backup 2. But more importantly, if he increases his value in 1-2 years he can become a very nice trade chip to upgrade the roster.

[Slim Charless]

I have had the idea of Josh + 6 to trade back for Clarke. But the key thing is the Suns must make sure the team gets Clarke. It may seem like selling low on Josh but the bigger prize is 9m or so of cap space between dropping down in the draft and moving Josh Jackson. For the Suns to get cap space - it might take selling low on Josh.

Second move, and I like Tyler Johnson but if the Cavs would do Tyler/Bucks pick for JR and Zizic - you have to think about that too. I like Tyler but 19.4m is a lot of cash.

But if the Suns were to either: 1) if the LeBroners truly want GArland and move Ball and the Suns can use 6/Josh for Ball - that would leave some cap space for PF

2) the above scenario of Josh/6 for Clarke - they might not need to move Tyler JOhnson.

If we do Josh + 6 I think we could go to 8.

But I don’t think I’m ready to give up on Josh. I get it... he sucked last year.
But his shot really started to turn around last year. 40% from 3 post all star break. He is still one of the top athletes in the league with a high motor, that might have become an elite 3p shooter. Sure maybe we could be a better team next year if we dump Josh. But we are not winning a title next year, and I believe we can make enough improvements next year to show progress while keeping Josh.

I believe Monty and our new development staff can turn Josh around.

The reality is: Josh, TJ, the 6th pick and I haven't been including him but Tyler also - these are the players most likely to be moved to be a real player in free agency. Now, TJ might be a given - but I think a second one of those will need to happen too. Who knows, maybe its the Tyler/JR Smith deal opening up about 14-15m of cap space.

With all this newly found caproom who makes sense and would sign? What do you think of Randle for the PF? If Ayton's defense improves that's alot of potential points from our frontcourt i suppose.

[WeekapaugGroove]

To me with Jackson it's hard to see an end game where he fits past his rookie deal that ends in two years. Who's he going to jump in the long term pecking order? Booker is just starting a 5 year deal and obviously not going anywhere. I would bet oubre is about to sign a 4 or 5 year deal and he's longer and generally better than Josh and only 1 year older, he's probably here for a while. Bridges has about 100 times the BBIQ of Josh and is a much better fit overall plus he's still on a rookie deal for 3 more years. As of right now Warren is still on the team and ahead of Josh, now decent chance he gets dealt.

So even if Josh improves to the point of not sucking its hard to see him getting a long term contract when he's up in two years. Plus they will need to decide whether to pick up his 9 mil 4th year extension in November. As of now he hasn't justified that and if you don't pick that up you might as well get rid of him because he'll walk after the year anyway and he also strikes me as the type who may not take that decision well and be a tough guy to be around.

People say 'be paitient and he's only 22' but decisions need to be made soon on him.

Jones chose not to pick up Benders 4th year option last year and considering the lack of depth at the 4 vs the wing spot there was a better argument for picking his up than joshs this coming year.

Now on the flip side they cut their losses with Chriss and used him in part to get Melton and that was the better use of an asset than what they did with Bender. There's a lesson to be learned there. Part of rebuilding with young players is learning when to cut bait and move on, not every pick works out.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I’m not sure we need a starting spot for Josh. He could be our backup 2. But more importantly, if he increases his value in 1-2 years he can become a very nice trade chip to upgrade the roster.

Would you pick up the 9 mil 4th year option? Because that's a decision that needs to be made Nov 1st. If that's not picked up he loses all trade value because he's a FA next summer. If it's picked up then you might have $9 mil in on a guy who is probably at best 4th in the SG/SF picking order and if Bridges booker and oubre all play 30+ minutes there's not much left for Josh.

Basically if you want Josh around then you should be an advocate for letting oubre leave.

The other thing I worry about is Josh doesn't strike me as the type of personality who will be a good soldier if he fall out of the rotation.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[Crives]

To me with Jackson it's hard to see an end game where he fits past his rookie deal that ends in two years. Who's he going to jump in the long term pecking order? Booker is just starting a 5 year deal and obviously not going anywhere. I would bet oubre is about to sign a 4 or 5 year deal and he's longer and generally better than Josh and only 1 year older, he's probably here for a while. Bridges has about 100 times the BBIQ of Josh and is a much better fit overall plus he's still on a rookie deal for 3 more years. As of right now Warren is still on the team and ahead of Josh, now decent chance he gets dealt.

So even if Josh improves to the point of not sucking its hard to see him getting a long term contract when he's up in two years. Plus they will need to decide whether to pick up his 9 mil 4th year extension in November. As of now he hasn't justified that and if you don't pick that up you might as well get rid of him because he'll walk after the year anyway and he also strikes me as the type who may not take that decision well and be a tough guy to be around.

People say 'be paitient and he's only 22' but decisions need to be made soon on him.

Jones chose not to pick up Benders 4th year option last year and considering the lack of depth at the 4 vs the wing spot there was a better argument for picking his up than joshs this coming year.

Now on the flip side they cut their losses with Chriss and used him in part to get Melton and that was the better use of an asset than what they did with Bender. There's a lesson to be learned there. Part of rebuilding with young players is learning when to cut bait and move on, not every pick works out.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I’m not sure we need a starting spot for Josh. He could be our backup 2. But more importantly, if he increases his value in 1-2 years he can become a very nice trade chip to upgrade the roster.

Would you pick up the 9 mil 4th year option? Because that's a decision that needs to be made Nov 1st. If that's not picked up he loses all trade value because he's a FA next summer. If it's picked up then you might have $9 mil in on a guy who is probably at best 4th in the SG/SF picking order and if Bridges booker and oubre all play 30+ minutes there's not much left for Josh.

Basically if you want Josh around then you should be an advocate for letting oubre leave.

The other thing I worry about is Josh doesn't strike me as the type of personality who will be a good soldier if he fall out of the rotation.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I would give Monty until Nov, I think it’s worth the risk. I guess feel we can clear enough cap with Tyler. I really like the scenario I posted on trade board:
6 + Tyler + 32 for 8 (we take Clarke and Atlanta gets culver or hunter)

[Saberestar]

To me with Jackson it's hard to see an end game where he fits past his rookie deal that ends in two years. Who's he going to jump in the long term pecking order? Booker is just starting a 5 year deal and obviously not going anywhere. I would bet oubre is about to sign a 4 or 5 year deal and he's longer and generally better than Josh and only 1 year older, he's probably here for a while. Bridges has about 100 times the BBIQ of Josh and is a much better fit overall plus he's still on a rookie deal for 3 more years. As of right now Warren is still on the team and ahead of Josh, now decent chance he gets dealt.

So even if Josh improves to the point of not sucking its hard to see him getting a long term contract when he's up in two years. Plus they will need to decide whether to pick up his 9 mil 4th year extension in November. As of now he hasn't justified that and if you don't pick that up you might as well get rid of him because he'll walk after the year anyway and he also strikes me as the type who may not take that decision well and be a tough guy to be around.

People say 'be paitient and he's only 22' but decisions need to be made soon on him.

Jones chose not to pick up Benders 4th year option last year and considering the lack of depth at the 4 vs the wing spot there was a better argument for picking his up than joshs this coming year.

Now on the flip side they cut their losses with Chriss and used him in part to get Melton and that was the better use of an asset than what they did with Bender. There's a lesson to be learned there. Part of rebuilding with young players is learning when to cut bait and move on, not every pick works out.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I’m not sure we need a starting spot for Josh. He could be our backup 2. But more importantly, if he increases his value in 1-2 years he can become a very nice trade chip to upgrade the roster.

A backup 2 that can not shot or take care of the ball? No thanks.

Bridges makes sense as a backup 2 that play some minutes at the 3 too. Even Oubre because he is better shoter and does not turn the ball over as much as Jackson.

[Crives]

To me with Jackson it's hard to see an end game where he fits past his rookie deal that ends in two years. Who's he going to jump in the long term pecking order? Booker is just starting a 5 year deal and obviously not going anywhere. I would bet oubre is about to sign a 4 or 5 year deal and he's longer and generally better than Josh and only 1 year older, he's probably here for a while. Bridges has about 100 times the BBIQ of Josh and is a much better fit overall plus he's still on a rookie deal for 3 more years. As of right now Warren is still on the team and ahead of Josh, now decent chance he gets dealt.

So even if Josh improves to the point of not sucking its hard to see him getting a long term contract when he's up in two years. Plus they will need to decide whether to pick up his 9 mil 4th year extension in November. As of now he hasn't justified that and if you don't pick that up you might as well get rid of him because he'll walk after the year anyway and he also strikes me as the type who may not take that decision well and be a tough guy to be around.

People say 'be paitient and he's only 22' but decisions need to be made soon on him.

Jones chose not to pick up Benders 4th year option last year and considering the lack of depth at the 4 vs the wing spot there was a better argument for picking his up than joshs this coming year.

Now on the flip side they cut their losses with Chriss and used him in part to get Melton and that was the better use of an asset than what they did with Bender. There's a lesson to be learned there. Part of rebuilding with young players is learning when to cut bait and move on, not every pick works out.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I’m not sure we need a starting spot for Josh. He could be our backup 2. But more importantly, if he increases his value in 1-2 years he can become a very nice trade chip to upgrade the roster.

A backup 2 that can not shot or take care of the ball? No thanks.

Bridges makes sense as a backup 2 that play some minutes at the 3 too. Even Oubre because he is better shoter and does not turn the ball over as much as Jackson.

His shot really improved though, his problem was finishing at the rim.

[Saberestar]

I’m not sure we need a starting spot for Josh. He could be our backup 2. But more importantly, if he increases his value in 1-2 years he can become a very nice trade chip to upgrade the roster.

Would you pick up the 9 mil 4th year option? Because that's a decision that needs to be made Nov 1st. If that's not picked up he loses all trade value because he's a FA next summer. If it's picked up then you might have $9 mil in on a guy who is probably at best 4th in the SG/SF picking order and if Bridges booker and oubre all play 30+ minutes there's not much left for Josh.

Basically if you want Josh around then you should be an advocate for letting oubre leave.

The other thing I worry about is Josh doesn't strike me as the type of personality who will be a good soldier if he fall out of the rotation.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I would give Monty until Nov, I think it’s worth the risk. I guess feel we can clear enough cap with Tyler. I really like the scenario I posted on trade board:
6 + Tyler + 32 for 8 (we take Clarke and Atlanta gets culver or hunter)

I do not think that Atlanta eats a $19M contract just to advance 2 positions in the draft.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I’m not sure we need a starting spot for Josh. He could be our backup 2. But more importantly, if he increases his value in 1-2 years he can become a very nice trade chip to upgrade the roster.

A backup 2 that can not shot or take care of the ball? No thanks.

Bridges makes sense as a backup 2 that play some minutes at the 3 too. Even Oubre because he is better shoter and does not turn the ball over as much as Jackson.

His shot really improved though, his problem was finishing at the rim.

This I do agree with. His 3pt shooting was a nice surprise late in the year. Now I so question a little if it was a product of teams leaving him wide open and it could drop if teams actually start running out at him. The finishing thing is really something, he's been abysmal at it and I would not have expected that coming out of the draft.

Defensively he's much better on the perimeter than against bigger guys where is lack of length and strength hurt him.

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[Crives]

Would you pick up the 9 mil 4th year option? Because that's a decision that needs to be made Nov 1st. If that's not picked up he loses all trade value because he's a FA next summer. If it's picked up then you might have $9 mil in on a guy who is probably at best 4th in the SG/SF picking order and if Bridges booker and oubre all play 30+ minutes there's not much left for Josh.

Basically if you want Josh around then you should be an advocate for letting oubre leave.

The other thing I worry about is Josh doesn't strike me as the type of personality who will be a good soldier if he fall out of the rotation.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I would give Monty until Nov, I think it’s worth the risk. I guess feel we can clear enough cap with Tyler. I really like the scenario I posted on trade board:
6 + Tyler + 32 for 8 (we take Clarke and Atlanta gets culver or hunter)

I do not think that Atlanta eats a $19M contract just to advance 2 positions in the draft.

They sounded very interested on the trade board

[bwgood77]

I would give Monty until Nov, I think it’s worth the risk. I guess feel we can clear enough cap with Tyler. I really like the scenario I posted on trade board:
6 + Tyler + 32 for 8 (we take Clarke and Atlanta gets culver or hunter)

I do not think that Atlanta eats a $19M contract just to advance 2 positions in the draft.

They sounded very interested on the trade board

Well hopefully that's Travis Schlenk over there posting.

[BobbieL]

I do not think that Atlanta eats a $19M contract just to advance 2 positions in the draft.

They sounded very interested on the trade board

Well hopefully that's Travis Schlenk over there posting.

I think if Tyler is moved for cap purposes only - it will be to Cleveland with the Bucks pick for JR Smith /Ziz. The Cavs have been "buying draft picks". I am guessing many teams are calling too. Thats a valued contract JR has.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I would be. If we can get some asset and grab Clarke closer to where he should be taken, I'd certainly consider it.

I like Tyler + #6 for #10 if Clarke is still available.

I'd rather give up Tyler rather then JJ, I mean we already know what Tyler is. With Jackson being only 21 at least there's a chance he can be developed more. Plus if all ATL wants to offer is salary cap relief, might as well make it worth it and get rid of Tyler's 19+ million salary. That's a huge chunk of cap relief that can go towards chasing whomever they see fit.

Of course, Who wouldn't man, But who here honestly thinks that they're going to be willing to willing to spend around 20 million on Johnson, When Jackson would be much cheaper.

And is younger, and fits their interests more for a young cheap athletic wing with defensive potential.

I'd love to get a team with space to give us something whilst taking our worst contract. But in my trade proposals, I try to be as realistic as possible to the current value of our assets.

But if anyone thinks that the Hawks would do that trade for Johnson instead of Jackson, Please ask them..............

And let them tell me that I am wrong???

[Ghost of Kleine]

I’m not sure we need a starting spot for Josh. He could be our backup 2. But more importantly, if he increases his value in 1-2 years he can become a very nice trade chip to upgrade the roster.

Would you pick up the 9 mil 4th year option? Because that's a decision that needs to be made Nov 1st. If that's not picked up he loses all trade value because he's a FA next summer. If it's picked up then you might have $9 mil in on a guy who is probably at best 4th in the SG/SF picking order and if Bridges booker and oubre all play 30+ minutes there's not much left for Josh.

Basically if you want Josh around then you should be an advocate for letting oubre leave.

The other thing I worry about is Josh doesn't strike me as the type of personality who will be a good soldier if he fall out of the rotation.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I would give Monty until Nov, I think it’s worth the risk. I guess feel we can clear enough cap with Tyler. I really like the scenario I posted on trade board:
6 + Tyler + 32 for 8 (we take Clarke and Atlanta gets culver or hunter)

If they were actually willing to do that move, Then yes, sign me up. But I'm just not sure, I see them spending around half their cap space, Just to move up a couple of spots and get a 2nd round pick for doing it.

Again, it's a bold proposal. But it just seems like a lot for Atlanta to give basically moving up two spots, and getting another 2nd round pick in exchange for giving up close to half of their cap. I'd honestly expect that at the very least, they'd ask for us to take back Plumlees' contract to get close to value?

[bwgood77]

They sounded very interested on the trade board

Well hopefully that's Travis Schlenk over there posting.

I think if Tyler is moved for cap purposes only - it will be to Cleveland with the Bucks pick for JR Smith /Ziz. The Cavs have been "buying draft picks". I am guessing many teams are calling too. Thats a valued contract JR has.

That seems like a hefty price to pay for a late first.

[BobbieL]

Well hopefully that's Travis Schlenk over there posting.

I think if Tyler is moved for cap purposes only - it will be to Cleveland with the Bucks pick for JR Smith /Ziz. The Cavs have been "buying draft picks". I am guessing many teams are calling too. Thats a valued contract JR has.

That seems like a hefty price to pay for a late first.

Yes, I know - but didn't they take on Henson and Dellevedova for George Hill when Hill had only 1m left on his deal next year and pretty sure Henson/Delly are worth close to 20m. It may not be the Suns - as there are many interested teams - but it seems that JR is getting traded pre 6/30. For the Cavs - that FRP would basically cost 15m

[bwgood77]

I think if Tyler is moved for cap purposes only - it will be to Cleveland with the Bucks pick for JR Smith /Ziz. The Cavs have been "buying draft picks". I am guessing many teams are calling too. Thats a valued contract JR has.

That seems like a hefty price to pay for a late first.

Yes, I know - but didn't they take on Henson and Dellevedova for George Hill when Hill had only 1m left on his deal next year and pretty sure Henson/Delly are worth close to 20m. It may not be the Suns - as there are many interested teams - but it seems that JR is getting traded pre 6/30. For the Cavs - that FRP would basically cost 15m

Yeah, $15 million for late first sounds like a lot. However, if you think he's a useful player for them too it helps. I noticed a similar trade proposal made by jredsaz on the trade board where Atlanta absorbs him for the pick.

Even though it seems like a lot to take on for the other team for a late pick, if we were to do something like that we better be pretty damn sure we can sign someone who is a bit of an upgrade for Tyler Johnson and there are no guarantees in free agency so you could be giving away a pick and a useful player for cap space you can't use to sign anyone better which would suck.

There are A LOT of teams with cap space this summer and a lot of those teams will likely look more appealing than the Suns. I guess our selling point for some of these guys is we are like the only team without anything close to a legit starting caliber PG or PF so someone could be guaranteed the starting job maybe fairly easily.

[Slim Charless]

I like Tyler + #6 for #10 if Clarke is still available.

I'd rather give up Tyler rather then JJ, I mean we already know what Tyler is. With Jackson being only 21 at least there's a chance he can be developed more. Plus if all ATL wants to offer is salary cap relief, might as well make it worth it and get rid of Tyler's 19+ million salary. That's a huge chunk of cap relief that can go towards chasing whomever they see fit.

Of course, Who wouldn't man, But who here honestly thinks that they're going to be willing to willing to spend around 20 million on Johnson, When Jackson would be much cheaper.

And is younger, and fits their interests more for a young cheap athletic wing with defensive potential.

I'd love to get a team with space to give us something whilst taking our worst contract. But in my trade proposals, I try to be as realistic as possible to the current value of our assets.

But if anyone thinks that the Hawks would do that trade for Johnson instead of Jackson, Please ask them..............

And let them tell me that I am wrong???

Well then wish them good luck and we both go our own separate ways. I get that we've not had the most success the last few years but that doesn't mean that we need to have a fire sale for all of our players either. Its not amazon prime day for suns players. Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't we use a young cheap athletic wing with defensive potential? I mean if Jackson's value is sooo low why not just hold onto him, see if Monty can turn him around.

If all he's worth is a low 2nd round pick now,then there's a chance he can only go up from there I'd imagine yes? He's not without talent he was a consensus top-5 pick in his class, he's raw like a lot of these guys. What's the harm in seeing if he can put it together with an actual NBA coach...

[BobbieL]

That seems like a hefty price to pay for a late first.

Yes, I know - but didn't they take on Henson and Dellevedova for George Hill when Hill had only 1m left on his deal next year and pretty sure Henson/Delly are worth close to 20m. It may not be the Suns - as there are many interested teams - but it seems that JR is getting traded pre 6/30. For the Cavs - that FRP would basically cost 15m

Yeah, $15 million for late first sounds like a lot. However, if you think he's a useful player for them too it helps. I noticed a similar trade proposal made by jredsaz on the trade board where Atlanta absorbs him for the pick.

Even though it seems like a lot to take on for the other team for a late pick, if we were to do something like that we better be pretty damn sure we can sign someone who is a bit of an upgrade for Tyler Johnson and there are no guarantees in free agency so you could be giving away a pick and a useful player for cap space you can't use to sign anyone better which would suck.

There are A LOT of teams with cap space this summer and a lot of those teams will likely look more appealing than the Suns. I guess our selling point for some of these guys is we are like the only team without anything close to a legit starting caliber PG or PF so someone could be guaranteed the starting job maybe fairly easily.

You are correct about making sure you have a player or two basically in the bag before June 30/July 1 to use that cap space of Tyler. As he is a good player, does have the one year left and the team was better with him. Also, with the many teams with cap space - the Suns will not be the first choice so it might be wiser to keep the "TJs" and see if you can upgrade PF and PG with the cap space they have and maybe a trade of Josh &/or the 6th pick.

The Suns need to make sure they get better even if not the glitzy glamour of the K-Klub free agents or Tobias Harris. A good solid PG and PF (Beverly and Aminu or Thad Young) - would be solid additions to the roster. A lot of the improvement on the Suns will be the growth of Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Oubre, etc.

[WeekapaugGroove]

There are A LOT of teams with cap space this summer and a lot of those teams will likely look more appealing than the Suns.

This is something that I feel like people like to ignore. FA in general is a dangerous place for bad teams but this year is really scary. Not that the suns shouldnt try in FA or that there aren't some bargain guys that could be good under the radar pickups but realistically trades are probably the better route for the suns to try to improve.

Edit- actually if we're being very realistic the number 1 way the suns could improve next season would be for their own players to take a leap, specifically Ayton and Bridges as it's common for a nice year two jump for good players.

[Slim Charless]

There are A LOT of teams with cap space this summer and a lot of those teams will likely look more appealing than the Suns.

This is something that I feel like people like to ignore. FA in general is a dangerous place for bad teams but this year is really scary. Not that the suns shouldnt try in FA or that there aren't some bargain guys that could be good under the radar pickups but realistically trades are probably the better route for the suns to try to improve.

Edit- actually if we're being very realistic the number 1 way the suns could improve next season would be for their own players to take a leap, specifically Ayton and Bridges as it's common for a nice year two jump for good players.

I think he's gonna be 21 and 12 guy next year EASY, while hopefully getting his blocks up over 2 as well. Monty was there 1st hand for the development of AD and was there during the massive jump Embiid made this year from last. He knows big men, I wouldn't be surprised if Ayton was the main reason that we got him. Deandre is gonna be all-nba with in the next 2 years I'd imagine. We FINALLY have one of those at the C position