Dragan Bender News, Discussion and Highlights

[lilfishi22]

It isn't official yet but this is what I was kind of expecting they would seriously consider. Even if you like him, he's just not worth $6m a year especially when we're trying to get as much cap space as possible next season and stretching Anderson to make space is a not a good use of cap space and should be one of the last options.

With how little he's shown, even if you like him, you're better off declining the option and trying our luck at resigning him to something more appropriate next season. If he's not happy or there's no mutual interest then he goes the way to Len. It is what it is. Sometimes a lot of top picks don't pan out, we just happened to have two in the same draft.

As for why we never sent him (or ANY of our prospects) down to the G-League, there's must some agenda we're not privy to. It seems like Archie was the last guy we sent down to the GL.

[bwgood77]

It isn't official yet but this is what I was kind of expecting they would seriously consider. Even if you like him, he's just not worth $6m a year especially when we're trying to get as much cap space as possible next season and stretching Anderson to make space is a not a good use of cap space and should be one of the last options.

With how little he's shown, even if you like him, you're better off declining the option and trying our luck at resigning him to something more appropriate next season. If he's not happy or there's no mutual interest then he goes the way to Len. It is what it is. Sometimes a lot of top picks don't pan out, we just happened to have two in the same draft.

Waiving and stretching Anderson, particularly if he doesn't improve much, is a no brainer given his decline and how that opens up like $12 million. That's twice as much space as cutting a young developing 7 footer who made major development last year with his 3 ball. Especially with our lack of depth/shooting at PF.

[lilfishi22]

It isn't official yet but this is what I was kind of expecting they would seriously consider. Even if you like him, he's just not worth $6m a year especially when we're trying to get as much cap space as possible next season and stretching Anderson to make space is a not a good use of cap space and should be one of the last options.

With how little he's shown, even if you like him, you're better off declining the option and trying our luck at resigning him to something more appropriate next season. If he's not happy or there's no mutual interest then he goes the way to Len. It is what it is. Sometimes a lot of top picks don't pan out, we just happened to have two in the same draft.

Waiving and stretching Anderson, particularly if he doesn't improve much, is a no brainer given his decline and how that opens up like $12 million. That's twice as much space as cutting a young developing 7 footer who made major development last year with his 3 ball. Especially with our lack of depth/shooting at PF.

Stretching him just cements $5m into our salary cap for another 3 seasons. That shouldn't be one of the options we're looking at unless we're out of options. I'd rather try our best to move an expiring Anderson (tough) or just take one more year of him on the books than stretch him out and be locked out of $5m for another 3 seasons. With how little Bender has shown and seemingly in the doghouse already, it just doesn't make sense to pick up his option when we could drop $6m off the salary cap with no ongoing penalties.

Quite frankly, I'm very slowly coming around on Blake Griffin as that 3rd guy if Piston's underachieve and want to blow it up. Anderson could be part of a trade to help them get off his salary.

[bwgood77]

It isn't official yet but this is what I was kind of expecting they would seriously consider. Even if you like him, he's just not worth $6m a year especially when we're trying to get as much cap space as possible next season and stretching Anderson to make space is a not a good use of cap space and should be one of the last options.

With how little he's shown, even if you like him, you're better off declining the option and trying our luck at resigning him to something more appropriate next season. If he's not happy or there's no mutual interest then he goes the way to Len. It is what it is. Sometimes a lot of top picks don't pan out, we just happened to have two in the same draft.

Waiving and stretching Anderson, particularly if he doesn't improve much, is a no brainer given his decline and how that opens up like $12 million. That's twice as much space as cutting a young developing 7 footer who made major development last year with his 3 ball. Especially with our lack of depth/shooting at PF.

Stretching him just cements $5m into our salary cap for another 3 seasons. That shouldn't be one of the options we're looking at unless we're out of options. I'd rather try our best to move an expiring Anderson (tough) or just take one more year of him on the books than stretch him out and be locked out of $5m for another 3 seasons. With how little Bender has shown and seemingly in the doghouse already, it just doesn't make sense to pick up his option when we could drop $6m off the salary cap with no ongoing penalties.

Quite frankly, I'm very slowly coming around on Blake Griffin as that 3rd guy if Piston's underachieve and want to blow it up. Anderson could be part of a trade to help them get off his salary.

I wouldn't waive/stretch unless they have a super max FA lined up. We will already have like $23 million and $35 million if we waive/stretch. That's with keeping Bender.

How much cap space do you think we need? There are going to be lots of teams with cap space.

I also think Bender will be movable....there would surely be a team willing to try out a 7 footer who can hit a 3 for a year at $6 million and then have his RFA rights. Some would probably give up a 2nd for him. Many backup PGs make more than that.

[lilfishi22]

Waiving and stretching Anderson, particularly if he doesn't improve much, is a no brainer given his decline and how that opens up like $12 million. That's twice as much space as cutting a young developing 7 footer who made major development last year with his 3 ball. Especially with our lack of depth/shooting at PF.

Stretching him just cements $5m into our salary cap for another 3 seasons. That shouldn't be one of the options we're looking at unless we're out of options. I'd rather try our best to move an expiring Anderson (tough) or just take one more year of him on the books than stretch him out and be locked out of $5m for another 3 seasons. With how little Bender has shown and seemingly in the doghouse already, it just doesn't make sense to pick up his option when we could drop $6m off the salary cap with no ongoing penalties.

Quite frankly, I'm very slowly coming around on Blake Griffin as that 3rd guy if Piston's underachieve and want to blow it up. Anderson could be part of a trade to help them get off his salary.

I wouldn't waive/stretch unless they have a super max FA lined up. We will already have like $23 million and $35 million if we waive/stretch. That's with keeping Bender.

How much cap space do you think we need? There are going to be lots of teams with cap space.

I also think Bender will be movable....there would surely be a team willing to try out a 7 footer who can hit a 3 for a year at $6 million and then have his RFA rights. Some would probably give up a 2nd for him. Many backup PGs make more than that.

I want as much as possible without being penalized going forward. I get that $12m off the books is double Bender's salary but there's considerable penalties to stretching Anderson which I'm not keen on. In my opinion, it's worth considering giving up assets to move Anderson because dropping his salary is significant and we have no other ways without being penalized. It's not worth as much because we don't need to give up anything to drop Bender's salary.

I just think regardless of whether we have a max FA lined up or not, based on Bender's performance alone in isolation, I don't think he's worth $6m a season. Then when you take into considering we're trying to maximize cap space, it's more reason not to retain him for that cost. As I said, if there's mutual interest after this season then sure resign the guy at something appropriate but a guy who's only skill is to shoot and he's not even consistent at that, I just can't think of enough reasons to keep him at that cost.

I honestly don't think he's as movable as you think he is. And if it cost us assets to move him just to get off salary....why not just decline his option and get off Scot-free? You might think some teams want him but I truly, truly don't believe that teams really care for our players outside of Ayton and Booker. Teams look at our draft history, our player development and our young player's production and it's completely underwhelming. Yes Bender is a 7 footer that can shoot (inconsistently) but he literally does nothing else despite what we tell ourselves he could do in theory. His defense, passing abilities and skills for a big man has been overrated by the fan base and even by myself. Having seen flashes of all those abilities but I just don't see those skills even starting to come together. Perhaps we need to consider the prospect that like Chriss, he was a a very high risk lotto pick in a low quality draft which amount to nothing. What sucked is that we move up to take two busts.

Unfortunately, the rules are the rules and we don't have another season to evaluate whether we should pick up next seasons option or not and we have to make that decision basically now.

[bwgood77]

Stretching him just cements $5m into our salary cap for another 3 seasons. That shouldn't be one of the options we're looking at unless we're out of options. I'd rather try our best to move an expiring Anderson (tough) or just take one more year of him on the books than stretch him out and be locked out of $5m for another 3 seasons. With how little Bender has shown and seemingly in the doghouse already, it just doesn't make sense to pick up his option when we could drop $6m off the salary cap with no ongoing penalties.

Quite frankly, I'm very slowly coming around on Blake Griffin as that 3rd guy if Piston's underachieve and want to blow it up. Anderson could be part of a trade to help them get off his salary.

I wouldn't waive/stretch unless they have a super max FA lined up. We will already have like $23 million and $35 million if we waive/stretch. That's with keeping Bender.

How much cap space do you think we need? There are going to be lots of teams with cap space.

I also think Bender will be movable....there would surely be a team willing to try out a 7 footer who can hit a 3 for a year at $6 million and then have his RFA rights. Some would probably give up a 2nd for him. Many backup PGs make more than that.

I want as much as possible without being penalized going forward. I get that $12m off the books is double Bender's salary but there's considerable penalties to stretching Anderson which I'm not keen on. In my opinion, it's worth considering giving up assets to move Anderson because dropping his salary is significant and we have no other ways without being penalized. It's not worth as much because we don't need to give up anything to drop Bender's salary.

I just think regardless of whether we have a max FA lined up or not, based on Bender's performance alone in isolation, I don't think he's worth $6m a season. Then when you take into considering we're trying to maximize cap space, it's more reason not to retain him for that cost. As I said, if there's mutual interest after this season then sure resign the guy at something appropriate but a guy who's only skill is to shoot and he's not even consistent at that, I just can't think of enough reasons to keep him at that cost.

I honestly don't think he's as movable as you think he is. And if it cost us assets to move him just to get off salary....why not just decline his option and get off Scot-free? You might think some teams want him but I truly, truly don't believe that teams really care for our players outside of Ayton and Booker. Teams look at our draft history, our player development and our young player's production and it's completely underwhelming. Yes Bender is a 7 footer that can shoot (inconsistently) but he literally does nothing else despite what we tell ourselves he could do in theory. His defense, passing abilities and skills for a big man has been overrated by the fan base and even by myself. Having seen flashes of all those abilities but I just don't see those skills even starting to come together. Perhaps we need to consider the prospect that like Chriss, he was a a very high risk lotto pick in a low quality draft which amount to nothing. What sucked is that we move up to take two busts.

Unfortunately, the rules are the rules and we don't have another season to evaluate whether we should pick up next seasons option or not and we have to make that decision basically now.

$6 million is nothing in this cap. I just generally think it's dumb to give up on guys on their rookie contracts. They are cheap, cost controlled, and you have their rights. He's definitely movable, especially with all the cap space this summer.

I just think it's dumb when he didn't play much his rookie season and had Watson as his coach, and then had a training camp (or not) with Watson and had Triano without a training camp in year two. He has been in about as bad of situation as you can be in. And I would give Igor a chance to work with him this year. We have max cap space already. Don't give up on a guy who's barely had a chance and never had a good PG while he was getting many minutes.

[lilfishi22]

I wouldn't waive/stretch unless they have a super max FA lined up. We will already have like $23 million and $35 million if we waive/stretch. That's with keeping Bender.

How much cap space do you think we need? There are going to be lots of teams with cap space.

I also think Bender will be movable....there would surely be a team willing to try out a 7 footer who can hit a 3 for a year at $6 million and then have his RFA rights. Some would probably give up a 2nd for him. Many backup PGs make more than that.

I want as much as possible without being penalized going forward. I get that $12m off the books is double Bender's salary but there's considerable penalties to stretching Anderson which I'm not keen on. In my opinion, it's worth considering giving up assets to move Anderson because dropping his salary is significant and we have no other ways without being penalized. It's not worth as much because we don't need to give up anything to drop Bender's salary.

I just think regardless of whether we have a max FA lined up or not, based on Bender's performance alone in isolation, I don't think he's worth $6m a season. Then when you take into considering we're trying to maximize cap space, it's more reason not to retain him for that cost. As I said, if there's mutual interest after this season then sure resign the guy at something appropriate but a guy who's only skill is to shoot and he's not even consistent at that, I just can't think of enough reasons to keep him at that cost.

I honestly don't think he's as movable as you think he is. And if it cost us assets to move him just to get off salary....why not just decline his option and get off Scot-free? You might think some teams want him but I truly, truly don't believe that teams really care for our players outside of Ayton and Booker. Teams look at our draft history, our player development and our young player's production and it's completely underwhelming. Yes Bender is a 7 footer that can shoot (inconsistently) but he literally does nothing else despite what we tell ourselves he could do in theory. His defense, passing abilities and skills for a big man has been overrated by the fan base and even by myself. Having seen flashes of all those abilities but I just don't see those skills even starting to come together. Perhaps we need to consider the prospect that like Chriss, he was a a very high risk lotto pick in a low quality draft which amount to nothing. What sucked is that we move up to take two busts.

Unfortunately, the rules are the rules and we don't have another season to evaluate whether we should pick up next seasons option or not and we have to make that decision basically now.

$6 million is nothing in this cap. I just generally think it's dumb to give up on guys on their rookie contracts. They are cheap, cost controlled, and you have their rights. He's definitely movable, especially with all the cap space this summer.

I just think it's dumb when he didn't play much his rookie season and had Watson as his coach, and then had a training camp (or not) with Watson and had Triano without a training camp in year two. He has been in about as bad of situation as you can be in. And I would give Igor a chance to work with him this year. We have max cap space already. Don't give up on a guy who's barely had a chance and never had a good PG while he was getting many minutes.

$6m against a $109m cap isn't much but if that means increasing potential salary offering from $20m to $26m, that's a significant 30% increase. I also think we need to dispel this notion that all rookies are always cheap. They are only cheap if they are halfway productive. If they don't even play then they are dead weight especially if they are making close to MLE money. Bender was the 4th pick in the draft and his salary reflects that. Had he been taken in the late lottery, I'd probably care a lot less.

I'm just done making excuses for the guy when he just hasn't shown enough for me to continue arguing for him. He played 43 games and almost 600min in his rookie season, that's not nothing. He played all 82 games and over 2000min last season (2nd most on the team). He played more minutes in his 2nd season than Josh Jackson did last season. If he's an NBA player worth keeping then he'll prove himself next season and we'll give him a contract (essentially an extension) that's worth his level of production.

[bwgood77]

I want as much as possible without being penalized going forward. I get that $12m off the books is double Bender's salary but there's considerable penalties to stretching Anderson which I'm not keen on. In my opinion, it's worth considering giving up assets to move Anderson because dropping his salary is significant and we have no other ways without being penalized. It's not worth as much because we don't need to give up anything to drop Bender's salary.

I just think regardless of whether we have a max FA lined up or not, based on Bender's performance alone in isolation, I don't think he's worth $6m a season. Then when you take into considering we're trying to maximize cap space, it's more reason not to retain him for that cost. As I said, if there's mutual interest after this season then sure resign the guy at something appropriate but a guy who's only skill is to shoot and he's not even consistent at that, I just can't think of enough reasons to keep him at that cost.

I honestly don't think he's as movable as you think he is. And if it cost us assets to move him just to get off salary....why not just decline his option and get off Scot-free? You might think some teams want him but I truly, truly don't believe that teams really care for our players outside of Ayton and Booker. Teams look at our draft history, our player development and our young player's production and it's completely underwhelming. Yes Bender is a 7 footer that can shoot (inconsistently) but he literally does nothing else despite what we tell ourselves he could do in theory. His defense, passing abilities and skills for a big man has been overrated by the fan base and even by myself. Having seen flashes of all those abilities but I just don't see those skills even starting to come together. Perhaps we need to consider the prospect that like Chriss, he was a a very high risk lotto pick in a low quality draft which amount to nothing. What sucked is that we move up to take two busts.

Unfortunately, the rules are the rules and we don't have another season to evaluate whether we should pick up next seasons option or not and we have to make that decision basically now.

$6 million is nothing in this cap. I just generally think it's dumb to give up on guys on their rookie contracts. They are cheap, cost controlled, and you have their rights. He's definitely movable, especially with all the cap space this summer.

I just think it's dumb when he didn't play much his rookie season and had Watson as his coach, and then had a training camp (or not) with Watson and had Triano without a training camp in year two. He has been in about as bad of situation as you can be in. And I would give Igor a chance to work with him this year. We have max cap space already. Don't give up on a guy who's barely had a chance and never had a good PG while he was getting many minutes.

$6m against a $109m cap isn't much but if that means increasing potential salary offering from $20m to $26m, that's a significant 30% increase. I also think we need to dispel this notion that all rookies are always cheap. They are only cheap if they are halfway productive. If they don't even play then they are dead weight especially if they are making close to MLE money. Bender was the 4th pick in the draft and he's salary reflects that. Had he been taken in the late lottery, I'd probably care a lot less.

I'm just done making excuses for the guy when he just hasn't shown enough for me to continue arguing for him. He played 43 games and almost 600min in his rookie season, that's not nothing. He played all 82 games and over 2000min last season (2nd most on the team). He played more minutes in his 2nd season than Josh Jackson did last season. If he's an NBA player worth keeping then he'll prove himself next season and we'll give him a contract (essentially an extension) that's worth his level of production.

He was the youngest guy in the league as a rookie and got injured and had Watson as a coach and was one of the youngest guys in the league last year and shot well from 3.

Obviously you don't like the guy, but it's way too early to give up on him when he takes up 5% or so of the salary cap and we already have max space and he finally has a real coach.

[lilfishi22]

$6 million is nothing in this cap. I just generally think it's dumb to give up on guys on their rookie contracts. They are cheap, cost controlled, and you have their rights. He's definitely movable, especially with all the cap space this summer.

I just think it's dumb when he didn't play much his rookie season and had Watson as his coach, and then had a training camp (or not) with Watson and had Triano without a training camp in year two. He has been in about as bad of situation as you can be in. And I would give Igor a chance to work with him this year. We have max cap space already. Don't give up on a guy who's barely had a chance and never had a good PG while he was getting many minutes.

$6m against a $109m cap isn't much but if that means increasing potential salary offering from $20m to $26m, that's a significant 30% increase. I also think we need to dispel this notion that all rookies are always cheap. They are only cheap if they are halfway productive. If they don't even play then they are dead weight especially if they are making close to MLE money. Bender was the 4th pick in the draft and he's salary reflects that. Had he been taken in the late lottery, I'd probably care a lot less.

I'm just done making excuses for the guy when he just hasn't shown enough for me to continue arguing for him. He played 43 games and almost 600min in his rookie season, that's not nothing. He played all 82 games and over 2000min last season (2nd most on the team). He played more minutes in his 2nd season than Josh Jackson did last season. If he's an NBA player worth keeping then he'll prove himself next season and we'll give him a contract (essentially an extension) that's worth his level of production.

He was the youngest guy in the league as a rookie and got injured and had Watson as a coach and was one of the youngest guys in the league last year and shot well from 3.

Obviously you don't like the guy, but it's way too early to give up on him when he takes up 5% or so of the salary cap and we already have max space and he finally has a real coach.

You keep saying things like, obviously I don't like this guy. It doesn't matter if I like him or not. It doesn't matter if you like him or not. Just because Booker REALLY likes Ulis on a damn near min contract, it doesn't mean he's worth keeping if he's not good. This isn't a game of whether I like someone or not, it's whether they are productive and contribute to something let alone winning. Bender can't even earn more than garbage time right now, in his 3rd season in the NBA.

Also, I don't think we have max space. Estimates have us at around $26m.

[bwgood77]

$6m against a $109m cap isn't much but if that means increasing potential salary offering from $20m to $26m, that's a significant 30% increase. I also think we need to dispel this notion that all rookies are always cheap. They are only cheap if they are halfway productive. If they don't even play then they are dead weight especially if they are making close to MLE money. Bender was the 4th pick in the draft and he's salary reflects that. Had he been taken in the late lottery, I'd probably care a lot less.

I'm just done making excuses for the guy when he just hasn't shown enough for me to continue arguing for him. He played 43 games and almost 600min in his rookie season, that's not nothing. He played all 82 games and over 2000min last season (2nd most on the team). He played more minutes in his 2nd season than Josh Jackson did last season. If he's an NBA player worth keeping then he'll prove himself next season and we'll give him a contract (essentially an extension) that's worth his level of production.

He was the youngest guy in the league as a rookie and got injured and had Watson as a coach and was one of the youngest guys in the league last year and shot well from 3.

Obviously you don't like the guy, but it's way too early to give up on him when he takes up 5% or so of the salary cap and we already have max space and he finally has a real coach.

You keep saying things like, obviously I don't like this guy. It doesn't matter if I like him or not. It doesn't matter if you like him or not. Just because Booker REALLY likes Ulis on a damn near min contract, it doesn't mean he's worth keeping if he's not good. This isn't a game of whether I like someone or not, it's whether they are productive and contribute to something let alone winning. Bender can't even earn more than garbage time right now, in his 3rd season in the NBA.

Also, I don't think we have max space. Estimates have us at around $26m.

OK, not a fan then. Anyway, that max cap space depends on number of years in the league. Anyway, we'll know within a few days so it doesn't matter.

[Book1Nation]

Goodbye, old friend.

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[8on]

This is totally deserved and not at all unreasonable

[Saberestar]

Goodbye, old friend.

Read on Twitter

Not a surprise at all. I agree with this move.

If we believe in Kokoskov as a coach we need to believe that this is an smart decision.

Kokoskov has worked with him in Summer League and since training camp. He does not play him, not even on garbage time.

He is on the roster, so there is some hope yet. He can improve during the season and we can sign him in the summer...but I do not expect it.

[RaisingArizona]

He just rubs me as a guy who doesn't care. Nonchalant attitude. I'm really surprised our 4, 8, and 34th pick all busted within 3 years but here we are.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Goodbye, old friend.

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Not a surprise at all. I agree with this move.

If we believe in Kokoskov as a coach we need to believe that this is an smart decision.

Kokoskov has worked with him in Summer League and since training camp. He does not play him, not even on garbage time.

He is on the roster, so there is some hope yet. He can improve during the season and we can sign him in the summer...but I do not expect it.

There's very little chance that he returns next season. I'm actually not sure that's its ever happened with an player who has had their option declined. Part of the reason is they would be limited to pay him no more than the $6ish mil he was due so if by some crazy chance he got to play and killed it he would price the suns out of the market.

But lets be real if he hasn't played these past few blow outs he's not going to play much this year baring major injuries. If he's not used as salary filler by the deadline I expect they simply waive him and use the roster spot to give some 10 contracts out to gleaguers.

[8on]

Hopefully, this motivates him to do what he has to do to stay in the league.

[lilfishi22]

It's very likely Chriss option gets declined too if it hasn't already (haven't heard anything yet) so that would be two top 10 picks in the 2016 draft which had their 4th year option declined. That alone wipes away any goodwill McD had left from the Booker/Warren draft. Now it might be looking a bit too far forward and it might be a white hot take but I truly believe there's legitimate reasons to decline JJ's 4th year option too if he doesn't show us enough this season.

[Saberestar]

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[RaisingArizona]

It's very likely Chriss option gets declined too if it hasn't already (haven't heard anything yet) so that would be two top 10 picks in the 2016 draft which had their 4th year option declined. That alone wipes away any goodwill McD had left from the Booker/Warren draft. Now it might be looking a bit too far forward and it might be a white hot take but I truly believe there's legitimate reasons to decline JJ's 4th year option too if he doesn't show us enough this season.

I can see it, too and it scares me. This btw, is why I am a big proponent against tanking. Nobody in the draft is guaranteed to pan out. We've had 3 whole drafts with little to no production from our picks. (Len, Bender + Chriss, and JJ)

[lilfishi22]

It's very likely Chriss option gets declined too if it hasn't already (haven't heard anything yet) so that would be two top 10 picks in the 2016 draft which had their 4th year option declined. That alone wipes away any goodwill McD had left from the Booker/Warren draft. Now it might be looking a bit too far forward and it might be a white hot take but I truly believe there's legitimate reasons to decline JJ's 4th year option too if he doesn't show us enough this season.

I can see it, too and it scares me. This btw, is why I am a big proponent against tanking. Nobody in the draft is guaranteed to pan out. We've had 3 whole drafts with little to no production from our picks. (Len, Bender + Chriss, and JJ)

Sadly, those are the 3 drafts where we actually had top 5 picks. Ayton is the 4th but I feel good about him.

You know, there are Suns fans who would argue that we intentionally took the highest risk and least likely to produce early prospects so we can continue to tank and end up with Ayton