The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2

[Crives]

Wonder if Gordon Hayward becomes available for the min.. he would be perfect

[Sunsdeuce]

Wonder if Gordon Hayward becomes available for the min.. he would be perfect

Forgot about it, James jones gonna waste everyone’s time resigning Okagie to a multi year deal after being proven to be unplayable in the playoffs.

Let’s keep doing things that are proven to not work over and over. It’s so frustrating being a fan of a team with dumb ownership. Smart teams mix quality drafting, smart trades and balanced rosters together. We aren’t in that group unfortunately.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I just think Nurkic is unplayable in the playoffs and there is no coach that can make it work. You are only as strong as your weakest link and Nurkic is a huge weakness. The Wolves were supposed to be the Suns most hopeful playoff matchup, and Suns got skunked. The game where Nurkic played the least was Game 4 and it was the only game that Suns lost by less than double figures. Suns have to resort to drop coverage in every pick and roll scenario with Nurkic and that is something that can easily be exploitable by opposing teams. It is what I said when the Suns initially traded for Nurkic that he makes it easy to gameplan against. It doesn't matter if you have a KD, Booker on the team when you got such a plodder at center who is unable to finish in the paint and is unable to spread the floor. It would be different if Nurkic could at least do one of those two (finish in the paint, or spread the floor).

Having Royce take the starting SF spot makes the Suns that much larger too, where I felt Grayson Allen could be a bit small against the larger SF's in the league. I know the trade wouldn't realistically happen (can't happen anyway with the 2nd apron rules), but I would hope the Suns recognize the limitations of Nurkic and attempt to find a situation where he can be traded for a more versatile center.

Agree with you on Nurkic being unplayable in the playoffs. And you're right that we'd be best served having a more athletic rim running shotblocking center option that is quick and switchable. But for now, I'd keep Nurkic for his regular season production and look to add a more athletic, mobile rim running option to back him up. Possibly even two similar more dynamic athletic backups that could allow him to sit during certain matchups and he could still be an option for other more ideal matchup situations.

I'd still look very hard at the Nik Richards premise. But another alternative for me in a Portland trade would be Allen/ future 2nd for Timelord/ Camara/ 25' ATL 2nd (protected 41-59). Or IF we're looking to trade Nurkic, AND PORTLAND was actually willing to take him back, then the trade that I'd look at would be:

Portland-
Nurkic/ future 2nd.

Phoenix-
Timelord (Robert Williams)/ Toumani Camara/ Jabari Walker.

Otherwise if keeping Nurkic, I'd look at names like Kai Jones and Damian Jones on the vet min. As for O'neale playing at the starting SF position, I'm honestly not a fan because he's honestly undersized ( for what our needs are) and is also a bit slow and unathletic to matchup with some players although still strong in the post. ALSO I'm a big advocate of adding a big, long, athletic 4/5 so we could move Durant to the 3, and then Allen and O'neale to the bench. Something about having a bench unit of:

Morris/ Allen/ O'neale/ Theiss/ Plumlee is very enticing to me. Theiss would be signed on the vet min after letting Roddy go. Honestly, not to he a dick about things, and even though I like Okogie, he's redundant with Dunn now. I'd actually prefer to
1- Not bring back Okogie.
2- Waive Roddy.
3- Sign Covington to be our starting SF.
4- Sign Theiss to be our backup PF.

Beal/ Booker/ Covington/ KD / Nurkic.
Morris/ Allen/ O'neale/ Theiss/ Plumlee.
Gillespie/ D Lee/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Ighodaro.

But if we really want to move Durant to the 3 giving us a bigger lineup whilst also moving Allen/ O'neale to the bench, I'd look at Meyers Leonard, Mike Muscala, Kai Jones, Pter Cornelie on the vet minimum for a big (6'11 4/5). Then move KD to the 3, and Allen, Oneale to the bench for added scoring punch and depth.

Is Nurk going to be happy sitting out more games and playing less minutes?

Him starting is not the answer and I don't see any team wanting him at his current salary.

That's the other thing too aside from the fact that we couldn't trade hack for Ayton even if we wanted to under our current CBA financial conditions (as pointed out by red Indian). Unless of course we chose to trade KD to Portland instead, which would be a non starter for both teams. This is why I had interest in a Nurkic for Timelord/ Camara/ filler/ 2nd type deal as being something to consider earlier.

But I can't really see Portland having any interest in taking back Nurkic unless they were moving off of Aytons' max salary in the deal too. As for Nurkic not being happy about playing less minutes ( if we're keeping him), honestly I couldn't care less if he'd be happy about it or not. Because he'd still be getting plenty of minutes throughout the regular season.

I'm just currently of the mind of likely keeping him anyways. At least until some other reasonable trade options might arise for us possibly?

[Frank Lee]

I'd honestly like us to not bring back Okogie, and waive Roddy to create 2 open spots left for:

Starting Small Forward-
Covington or Crowder.

Backup 4/5-
Daniel Theiss or Christian Wood ( via small trade).

How about we grab a couple more youngsters and forget about this delusional we are a contender mindset? I say play the crap out of Dunn and that Oso fella and find out quickly if they’re legit contributors. We don’t have enough minutes to go around to keep stacking in old wore out vets and once was maybes. If we didn’t hit on these Draft picks… It’s a rinse and repeat, Unless the big little three ball out.

Outside of Bud, Morris might be the most important pick up. And actually getting rid of Vogel could be the biggest improvement just from addition by subtraction.

Furthermore, it’s borderline trolling/and certainly comical some here are clamoring for a retry of notorious quitters DeSquandre and Chuck Chowder. Give that **** a rest.

[enigmatics]

Paul Reed just hit the market.

I swear to God if this team doesnt try to get him. Move on this Jones!

[Fo-Real]

Paul Reed just hit the market.

I swear to God if this team doesnt try to get him. Move on this Jones!

He's not a minimum guy, how do you think we should be in on this ****?

[Frank Lee]

Sell him on the minimum deal and emphasize how much fun it will be to watch three iso guys

I don’t think that Phoenix is an attractive place for free agents to go. Certainly not ring chasers. There just aren’t any minutes to spare.

[enigmatics]

Sell him on the minimum deal and emphasize how much fun it will be to watch three iso guys

I don’t think that Phoenix is an attractive place for free agents to go. Certainly not ring chasers. They’re just aren’t any minutes to spare.

If they had a rim runner they'd look for him get this - at the rim.

Guess what they don't have right now? Just the threat of one would be an upgrade and help with spacing.

[They_Them_Hatin]

Does anyone know the max they can sign Okogie for?

[dremill24]

Does anyone know the max they can sign Okogie for?

~12.9mil starting salary for up to 4yrs

[They_Them_Hatin]

Paul Reed just hit the market.

I swear to God if this team doesnt try to get him. Move on this Jones!

He's not a minimum guy, how do you think we should be in on this ****?

Who knows but it wouldn’t kill them to reach out.

[Saberestar]

Does anyone know the max they can sign Okogie for?

A team may re-sign its own free agent to a contract with a first-year salary of up to the greater of (a) 175% of the player’s salary in the last season of his prior contract, or (b) 105% of the average player salary for the prior season, if he played for the team for some or all of each of the prior two consecutive seasons (or, if he changed teams, he did so by trade or by assignment via the NBA’s waiver procedures).

A contract signed using the Early Bird Exception must be for at least two seasons (not including any option year).

Basically around $12M per year at most.

[bwgood77]

Swap Camara and Dunn positionally and throw in ATL 25' 2nd ( protected 41-59)/ MIL 29 1st no protections for taking back Aytons' max contract for them and I'm agreeable.

Now I don't see them being willing to attach picks even to move Ayton's contract. So I don't think a deal would happen. But those would be my conditions to bail them out of Aytons' contract on top of also giving them Allen in the deal too.

I just think Nurkic is unplayable in the playoffs and there is no coach that can make it work. You are only as strong as your weakest link and Nurkic is a huge weakness. The Wolves were supposed to be the Suns most hopeful playoff matchup, and Suns got skunked. The game where Nurkic played the least was Game 4 and it was the only game that Suns lost by less than double figures. Suns have to resort to drop coverage in every pick and roll scenario with Nurkic and that is something that can easily be exploitable by opposing teams. It is what I said when the Suns initially traded for Nurkic that he makes it easy to gameplan against. It doesn't matter if you have a KD, Booker on the team when you got such a plodder at center who is unable to finish in the paint and is unable to spread the floor. It would be different if Nurkic could at least do one of those two (finish in the paint, or spread the floor).

Having Royce take the starting SF spot makes the Suns that much larger too, where I felt Grayson Allen could be a bit small against the larger SF's in the league. I know the trade wouldn't realistically happen (can't happen anyway with the 2nd apron rules), but I would hope the Suns recognize the limitations of Nurkic and attempt to find a situation where he can be traded for a more versatile center.

Yeah, people talk like Nurkic is being hated on, but I think he was great, a good guy, very good at passing, getting to the line, screening, etc. But is finishing around the rim is terrible and his interior defense is decent, but not good enough for a contender in the playoffs.

I think Bud will have him focus a ton on 3s and if he can hit at a good rate it will really open things up, and potentially enable Dunn to play a bit more with his non shooting and rim protection for a smaller guy.

Though I do think Dunn (depending on what we see in summer league, mainly offensively where a 1st round pick should dominate), should probably play some time in the G league to gain confidence shooting, and hopefully get a ton of playing time to really be ready to contribute later in the year.

[bwgood77]

Has there been any clips of Book/KD together this offseason? Felt like last offseason was nothing but a love fest between those two, don’t recall seeing them together at all since season ended

I imagine they are practicing a lot with the olympic team right now together.

[bwgood77]

Paul Reed just hit the market.

I swear to God if this team doesnt try to get him. Move on this Jones!

DEFINITELY a guy we should go after. Always liked him.

[BobbieL]

Does anyone know the max they can sign Okogie for?

~12.9mil starting salary for up to 4yrs

I thought they could only sign him to a one year deal and after this year - have his bird rights

One year for the league average

But Bertans was released
Paul Reed is a FA
Granted can't do much but the minimum but Okogie - I don't think they need him back

I wish they could do a sign and trade with him at that salary but don't think they can

Ingram on the market as the Pels only want to pay 4/160-180

[RaisingArizona]

Wonder if Gordon Hayward becomes available for the min.. he would be perfect

Forgot about it, James jones gonna waste everyone’s time resigning Okagie to a multi year deal after being proven to be unplayable in the playoffs.

Let’s keep doing things that are proven to not work over and over. It’s so frustrating being a fan of a team with dumb ownership. Smart teams mix quality drafting, smart trades and balanced rosters together. We aren’t in that group unfortunately.

Bingo

[dremill24]

Does anyone know the max they can sign Okogie for?

~12.9mil starting salary for up to 4yrs

I thought they could only sign him to a one year deal and after this year - have his bird rights

One year for the league average

But Bertans was released
Paul Reed is a FA
Granted can't do much but the minimum but Okogie - I don't think they need him back

I wish they could do a sign and trade with him at that salary but don't think they can

Ingram on the market as the Pels only want to pay 4/160-180

You need 3yrs under contract to get to Full Bird Rights and sign for anything up to the max. But only 2yrs to get to sign with Early Bird Rights up to that number.

I suppose if all involved wanted to be able to sign a contract specifically with Full Birds then they'd need to do a 1yr contract so he can get the biggest raise possible ASAP by signing again next year. As a guy who has never gotten over the minimum on the open market, I dont really think thats much of a concern regarding Okogie. Maybe a 1yr deal allows them to sign him to a huge short salary as trade ballast at that point next July...but I'd imagine they're potentially more concerned about signing him to a large enough tradeable salary this year than next, if thats their goal, but who knows. If its something coming down to just on court value, getting Full Birds next year isnt going to do him any good, hes not getting more than the Early Bird number on the open market this year or next.

If something up to the Early Bird number is an agreeable number to both parties over multiple years, you can sign for 1-4yrs using that salary. It just keeps you away from the FA market longer, but its not like hes sacrificing much earning power in that scenario, so I doubt its a huge problem.

[Slim Charless]

Wonder if Gordon Hayward becomes available for the min.. he would be perfect

Forgot about it, James jones gonna waste everyone’s time resigning Okagie to a multi year deal after being proven to be unplayable in the playoffs.

Let’s keep doing things that are proven to not work over and over. It’s so frustrating being a fan of a team with dumb ownership. Smart teams mix quality drafting, smart trades and balanced rosters together. We aren’t in that group unfortunately.

Bingo

Devonte Graham was just cut. Is he completely washed? I'd still rather Fultz, but I seem to be alone in that

[Crives]

Forgot about it, James jones gonna waste everyone’s time resigning Okagie to a multi year deal after being proven to be unplayable in the playoffs.

Let’s keep doing things that are proven to not work over and over. It’s so frustrating being a fan of a team with dumb ownership. Smart teams mix quality drafting, smart trades and balanced rosters together. We aren’t in that group unfortunately.

Bingo

Devonte Graham was just cut. Is he completely washed? I'd still rather Fultz, but I seem to be alone in that

I’m guessing Okogie coming back, otherwise why announce presser now if someone new potentially coming

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