1UPZ wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:1UPZ wrote:
I think Barkley deep down has some feelings towards the Suns franchise, its where he got his finals taste and his MVP award (during MJ era too, so thats special). He probably heard the news that the Suns will pay Dragic the max if he commits, and Barkley simply implying that they need to move 1 of the PGs and use the money freed up for a big man.
What big man though can we get who is as good a player as Dragic? Yeah, I agree if Marc Gasol and Aldridge are interested go for it, but both are very, very likely to re-sign with their current clubs. The most likely scenario if we move Dragic for cap space is us paying a Jordan Hill or Omer Asik. I don't think that really makes us better than having Goran.
The best way for us to get the big we need (a guy who pushes us into that contender category--not the guy who simply gets us closer), is to trade for him directly, because all of those guys aside from Gasol and Aldridge are under contract for a few more years. I mean, does Al Jefferson, an all-post offense nothing else guy really help us enough to put us into contender mode? The one caveat I'd throw out there is Milsap, but with how Atlanta is playing would he really leave, and would Atlanta really let him? Again doubtful. Other guys who might be available right now like Noah are too old to be real contributors when the rest of our cast hits its window in 2-3 years. So if you are going to trade assets for a big man to become a real contender, you still have to have quality guards. Point being that the only way to get a legit star big while keeping a good cast around him and not selling your entire future (all picks and youngens moved) is to trade excess talent from an overloaded position. In our situation, if the goal is a trade for a big, having this excess makes sense.
We're a rebuilding team that is simply performing better on the court than other rebuilding teams because we've done a better job of it more quickly. We added Bledsoe, developed a core of guys last year who were 24 or under, and hit on our top 5 pick in Len who is paying dividends. We traded for undervalued players in Plumlee and Green and got a ton of picks through various trades and have continued to acquire upside players who are developing every day in practice against a better cast than any other rebuild in this league is throwing out there. The real fallacy with the Barkley's of the world is they take our current team as one that is trying to win now/contend now. We aren't. I think everyone knows we're a couple years away from our window actually opening. It's a good thing we're fighting for a playoff spot this young. It bodes well for the future. We're at the last stages of a rebuild. It's senseless to tear things down now or sell talent for lesser talent at better positional fits at this point. It sets us back.
1. Who said move Dragic?, I didnt name anyone, I said move "1" of the PGs.
2. Possible big men?, good question, its not an easy answer though, I'm not McDonough or Babby so I don't know who they are looking at. But if its me as the GM, my list will include (Free Agents only)
- Greg Monroe: 21 PER, 16ppg 13rpg 49% FG (last 12 games). Looking for the ABSOLUTE Best contract situation he can get. Currently working well with the Pistons system, not a very good defender, but will grab rebounds and put up points. 25 years old.
- Marc Gasol: Very good center, but about 90% chance he resigns with Grizzlies and the other 10% to a team like the Spurs. 30 years old however.
-LaMarcus Aldridge: All-Star PF/C, would be a huge acquisition, but 90% chance he resigns with Blazers, also 30 years old.
- Tristan Thompson: Rejected a 12 million a year contract recently (apparently) so he is expensive for what he brings, he is slightly undersize for a PF/C, but not too shabby as a PF, he is 6'8 but plays like he is 6'10. However too expensive, would cost as much as Dragic or close to. But could explode as a starter and on a fast pace tempo... 24 years old.
- Brook Lopez: 15ppg 6rpg 1.6bpg in 26 minutes, has been injured a lot throughout the years but when healthy is a handful down low to contain. Best stats he can put up 21ppg 8.6rpg 2.1bpg, so when playing his best and with sufficient minutes (and healthy) he is a 20/8/2 big man. The ppg and the bpg are very nice, the rpg is good. As of late his rebounds has gone down but he's been paired with decent rebounding specialists. Is a high risk, high reward player. 27 Years old.
The rest are 30 years old+ and doesnt suit the Suns direction (Al Jefferson), but hey, McDonough may see it differently by the end of the season.
3. Re-signing Dragic and locking him up at a Max contract, along Bledsoe and Thomas, so that Suns are roughly 37-38 Million a year invested on PGs, is not the end of the world. As those players would be "locked-up" assets, the type of assets other teams can take risks on. So maxing Dragic is definitely NOT out of the question..
But if he leaves, which is a real chance, Suns lose him for nothing.
4. Just because some of us here agrees with Barkley that the Suns need to focus on being an all-around team rather than a small ball team, doesnt mean we have not considered the state of the Suns with consideration to the FA market and their cap situation. The forums is not just about realistic trades or transaction proposals but a place to voice preference whether those preferences are fantasy or realistic, it doesnt really matter. Its a fan thing to post your ideal situation for the team and everyone has different ideals.
5. Barkley obviously speaking about the Suns situation abruptly and without deep consideration, but he is there to be an entertainer and as a commentator on NBA issues/stories. He's free to do so and he has done it with other players/teams and he does it because he can.
1. I wasn't responding to your statement, just the implied part from Barkley's statement. Moving Thomas doesn't free up any money to get a big (what awesome big signed as a FA for $6 mill?) And Bledsoe is our only potential star besides maybe Len so I don't see the point of moving him, which leaves Goran.
2. And there's the problem. Gasol and Aldridge just aren't viable. We should talk to them in FA b/c there's nothing to lose, and then if they are willing to commit we could clear the space, but I'm not a big fan of selling off anyone to find the space to get them with such low odds.
Thompson wants max and I'm not sold he's actually better than Kieff, and he's only a year younger. I like Tristan as a backup 4 and 5 on this team in emergency situations, but not at his price. He's a rebounding and defense upgrade but a big offensive downgrade. I think we can find a rebounding/defensive big in this upcoming draft without spending for Tristan.
Monroe and Lopez are the best fits/most realistic of the group imo. They can play the 4 and 5, which meshes well given Len's injury history and Wright's versatility. You can never have too much versatility.
Monroe also reportedly rejected a near max, so he's going to cost a max to get imo. He does rebound much better than Kieff, and he's surprisingly mobile/fast. But he's worse on D imo and he doesn't really score any more efficiently than Kieff. He scores in a more traditional manner, but that's not necessarily the upgrade on overall offense that people think. Plus he's not a 3 point threat, and Kieff is somewhat of one now with the ability to become one down the line. I feel like Monroe's a worse fit than Kieff for a slashing-oriented team, and while I'd love both he will get a max. So essentially we're saying, "this is our team" cap-wise. I'm not certain that's good enough to win a title. I see Kieff as a young David West-type and Monroe as an Al Jefferson-type. I'm not sure which is better to try to win a title with, but I think a West-type fits this team more. Also, assuming we don't sell guys to find the space, we'll need to sign and trade, giving up someone else to make this work under our cap.
Lopez, assuming he's healthy and our staff signs off on him, is interesting. He is a worse rebounder than Kieff, but offensively he's uber skilled with a great mid-range jumper. So we'd still have some of the floor-spacing we get with Kieff. Lopez also can handle/bother bigger lineups downlow due to his size. I'd be okay with it if the med staff signed off. They've been too good as a unit not to trust in these situations. Particularly since he's on the block and Brooklyn wasn't getting much for him given the offers I saw, I wonder what it would cost. If we can use PJ and Marcus as our primary salary back, combined with youngsters (not Len or Warren) and picks and expirings, we could conceivably get him while keeping Bledsoe, Len, Goran, Thomas, etc.. I do believe, if healthy, a Lopez/Len starting lineup presents a lot of problems, and a Kieff/Wright backup unit is absurdly good given the lack of quality bigs in this league.
3. I agree completely. It's not the end of the world to pay him like people make it out to be. Plus, the other 2 PGs are young and Dragic, while older, is in their prime, with a proven track record, so they aren't going to be hard to move later if needed. I know he can walk, but NYC is the only real threat I see. Houston and the others simply don't have the cap space. LA is going to be awful and I can't see him looking at that team and signing up. NYC at least would have a chance in the east, but has no picks and I think Goran is smart enough to realize it's not a better contender than PHX going forward. Plus his brother is here for now.
4. I'm not saying otherwise. All I'm saying is that the fact that the suns have 3 pgs and are willing to pay them doesn't even mean the Suns themselves don't realize that this particular makeup with 3 elite pgs isn't ideal. What it means is that they are loading up on talent and buying what's undervalued enough to warrant this predicament, and in my mind it's very obvious why (so that when the time comes and there's a guy 26 or younger who can grow with our core and at a need position, we have extra ammo so that we can move pieces while still having talent at the guard spot afterwards). I disagree mightily with fans clammoring to move IT for nothing or that paying Goran is stupid or knocking the composition of the team because I see it as much more fluid and I do see a plan through all of this that imo is fairly obvious. Barkley's comments in my mind represent this static view adopted by many of where we are without considering the potential a situation like having too much talent at one spot provides in a trade scenario.
5. I'll give him that. He's entertaining. And sometimes I entirely agree with him, but when he says stuff over the McDonough Era like "I don't understand what the Suns are doing", and then "they're messing up", it's tough to grasp. I'm not sure how anyone can look at what McDonough has done to a team that had very little going for it and really question the strategy. But again, I see the 3 pgs as a setup to move one and create more balance at the right time. Others may not, and that explains their desire to fire-sell any of them for spare parts. For instance, he's gone on record as disliking the Thomas signing, which just ignores his salary and actual production, and also the fact that we did first make a run at Lebron, Bosh, etc.. It just ignores what the real decision facing Phx was at the time it signed IT--IT v. Jordan Hill.
