Trade Discussion

[Sunsdeuce]

Where is RAY RAY with an update?

While you're waiting for more Ray Ray stuff, here's a Ray Ray scoop from many years ago if you need a fix...

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=767612

Been coming to this board off and on since forever, not once that i can remeber either of these "insiders" been right....or even in the ballbark when coincidently all they prophesied is the ballpark.

Here's what I love...."I'm not allowed to give out specific info." What are you on a court order? The secret service or FBI tracking you? It's a freaking sport. Who cares. If you got some "good info," cool let us know, if you don't have good info don't bring it up.

[bwgood77]

If I was another team and the Suns asked for a first round pick and a young player for Markieff, I would laugh and hang up.

Here's my thing, I think Ryan McDonough is seriously fooling himself if he thinks Keifs value increases after the season. It doesn't, I actually think Keiff loses value. Teams will fill their voids through free agency and the draft. Right now, teams want to make a push in the playoffs that's where Kieffs real value is.

For the most part, I agree. I've said if the deals suck, then there will be teams striking out in FA on who they are hoping for and that bargain contract will look even better. But if we can get a pretty good pick in the first round, I'd pull the trigger now. Teams may be more hesitant to give up draft picks for the following summer for the next draft which is better, but we may prefer a pick in the next draft also since we already have two first rounders this year.

Still hope a deal gets done though.

[AtheJ415]

I would absorb Pekovic or Martin's contracts and give Wolves Knight OR Bledsoe plus Cavs pick OR the 2019 Heat pick for LaVine.

Bledsoe alone has more value than Lavine. Lavine has upside but he's proven next to nothing at this level in 2 years of play.

[thamadkant]

I would absorb Pekovic or Martin's contracts and give Wolves Knight OR Bledsoe plus Cavs pick OR the 2019 Heat pick for LaVine.

The 2019 Heat pick is completely unprotected. That is like gold in the NBA. I would only include that in a trade for a player that is top five in the league.

2019 pick is protected isnt it. If not then put a condition on it

[Mr Puddles]

If I was another team and the Suns asked for a first round pick and a young player for Markieff, I would laugh and hang up.

Here's my thing, I think Ryan McDonough is seriously fooling himself if he thinks Keifs value increases after the season. It doesn't, I actually think Keiff loses value. Teams will fill their voids through free agency and the draft. Right now, teams want to make a push in the playoffs that's where Kieffs real value is.

McD just wants to fuel speculation that the Suns are willing to keep Kief past the trade deadline though, as the general sentiment around the league seems to be that the Suns are desperate to move him. McD has to create a some sort for of leverage.

Also 'first round pick' and 'young player' are relative concepts; either "Karl Anthony Towns + unprotected Wolves pick" or "the 29th Spurs pick+ Ray McCallum" would fit that description.

[Sunsdeuce]

If I was another team and the Suns asked for a first round pick and a young player for Markieff, I would laugh and hang up.

Here's my thing, I think Ryan McDonough is seriously fooling himself if he thinks Keifs value increases after the season. It doesn't, I actually think Keiff loses value. Teams will fill their voids through free agency and the draft. Right now, teams want to make a push in the playoffs that's where Kieffs real value is.

For the most part, I agree. I've said if the deals suck, then there will be teams striking out in FA on who they are hoping for and that bargain contract will look even better. But if we can get a pretty good pick in the first round, I'd pull the trigger now. Teams may be more hesitant to give up draft picks for the following summer for the next draft which is better, but we may prefer a pick in the next draft also since we already have two first rounders this year.

Still hope a deal gets done though.

In markieffs absolute best year was he ever worth more than just a mid-first round pick and a role player in a trade? I can't say that he was ever an "impact player." Maybe a good 6th man of the year at best. That is also why I don't see his value increasing.

[letsgosuns]

I would absorb Pekovic or Martin's contracts and give Wolves Knight OR Bledsoe plus Cavs pick OR the 2019 Heat pick for LaVine.

The 2019 Heat pick is completely unprotected. That is like gold in the NBA. I would only include that in a trade for a player that is top five in the league.

2019 pick is protected isnt it. If not then put a condition on it

Wait we are both off. The Suns own the Heat's 2017 pick top-7 protected and the Heat's 2021 pick completely unprotected. http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Suns.htm

[saintEscaton]

I would absorb Pekovic or Martin's contracts and give Wolves Knight OR Bledsoe plus Cavs pick OR the 2019 Heat pick for LaVine.

The 2019 Heat pick is completely unprotected. That is like gold in the NBA. I would only include that in a trade for a player that is top five in the league.

2019 pick is protected isnt it. If not then put a condition on it

Top 7 protected in 2017-2018, unprotected in 2019 if not conveyed. With an under performing albatross Dragic, Whiteside soon to bolt, Bosh with a career threatening injury and Old Man Wade on his last legs they could entirely fold, unless they reload quickly. I think the Heat are a late lotto team next year, before briefly becoming cellar dellars They have enough time to get it back together before 2021 tho.

[Mr Puddles]

The 2019 Heat pick is completely unprotected. That is like gold in the NBA. I would only include that in a trade for a player that is top five in the league.

2019 pick is protected isnt it. If not then put a condition on it

Wait we are both off. The Suns own the Heat's 2017 pick top-7 protected and the Heat's 2021 pick completely unprotected. http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Suns.htm

Mr. Puddles to the rescue.

Suns will get the 2018 heat pick because Miami has to give their pick to Philadelphia this year. In 2019 it becomes unprotected if Miami drafts in the top 7 in 2018 (that's what you were thinking of). Then 2021 is unprotected.

So potentially we have 2 unprotected picks

[Sunsdeuce]

If I was another team and the Suns asked for a first round pick and a young player for Markieff, I would laugh and hang up.

Here's my thing, I think Ryan McDonough is seriously fooling himself if he thinks Keifs value increases after the season. It doesn't, I actually think Keiff loses value. Teams will fill their voids through free agency and the draft. Right now, teams want to make a push in the playoffs that's where Kieffs real value is.

McD just wants to fuel speculation that the Suns are willing to keep Kief past the trade deadline though, as the general sentiment around the league seems to be that the Suns are desperate to move him. McD has to create a some sort for of leverage.

Also 'first round pick' and 'young player' are relative concepts; either "Karl Anthony Towns + unprotected Wolves pick" or "the 29th Spurs pick+ Ray McCallum" would fit that description.

Totally understand and I got all of that but like I said before, these are car salesman tactics. You like a car (Kieff) and the saleman (Ryan Mcd) tells you a price. You don't like the price and tell him to bring it down. He doesn't and says that's too low (expecting u to fold and take his price), so you tell him to call him when he wants to actually deal. Then the car sits on the lot for months and the car saleman (Ryan) continues to get low offers. Till he calls u back and says its yours on the price you want.

This is what all th GMs do. And they know each other's games because they play them too. And sometimes they sucker a fellow GM.

[TOO]

I would absorb Pekovic or Martin's contracts and give Wolves Knight OR Bledsoe plus Cavs pick OR the 2019 Heat pick for LaVine.

Bledsoe alone has more value than Lavine. Lavine has upside but he's proven next to nothing at this level in 2 years of play.

But the dunks man, think of the dunks!

[bwgood77]

Here's my thing, I think Ryan McDonough is seriously fooling himself if he thinks Keifs value increases after the season. It doesn't, I actually think Keiff loses value. Teams will fill their voids through free agency and the draft. Right now, teams want to make a push in the playoffs that's where Kieffs real value is.

For the most part, I agree. I've said if the deals suck, then there will be teams striking out in FA on who they are hoping for and that bargain contract will look even better. But if we can get a pretty good pick in the first round, I'd pull the trigger now. Teams may be more hesitant to give up draft picks for the following summer for the next draft which is better, but we may prefer a pick in the next draft also since we already have two first rounders this year.

Still hope a deal gets done though.

In markieffs absolute best year was he ever worth more than just a mid-first round pick and a role player in a trade? I can't say that he was ever an "impact player." Maybe a good 6th man of the year at best. That is also why I don't see his value increasing.

I'm sure McD says he wants that and does want that, but he's going to say he wants more than he will likely ultimately take.

[bwgood77]

2019 pick is protected isnt it. If not then put a condition on it

Wait we are both off. The Suns own the Heat's 2017 pick top-7 protected and the Heat's 2021 pick completely unprotected. http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Suns.htm

Mr. Puddles to the rescue.

Suns will get the 2018 heat pick because Miami has to give their pick to Philadelphia this year. In 2019 it becomes unprotected if Miami drafts in the top 7 in 2018 (that's what you were thinking of). Then 2021 is unprotected.

So potentially we have 2 unprotected picks

I feel like skipping through puddles, Mr. Puddles. By 2025 we should be legit!

[AtheJ415]

For the most part, I agree. I've said if the deals suck, then there will be teams striking out in FA on who they are hoping for and that bargain contract will look even better. But if we can get a pretty good pick in the first round, I'd pull the trigger now. Teams may be more hesitant to give up draft picks for the following summer for the next draft which is better, but we may prefer a pick in the next draft also since we already have two first rounders this year.

Still hope a deal gets done though.

In markieffs absolute best year was he ever worth more than just a mid-first round pick and a role player in a trade? I can't say that he was ever an "impact player." Maybe a good 6th man of the year at best. That is also why I don't see his value increasing.

I'm sure McD says he wants that and does want that, but he's going to say he wants more than he will likely ultimately take.

The teams after him are playoff teams, so they probably are offering a late 1st. A young player could mean anything. Truthfully, many failed draft picks are like cars. Their value may hold to the team that bought them, but the market isn't strong. For instance, see Thomas Robinson. I think guys that have yet to show anything in the league plus a late first isn't all that unreasonable imo.

[DirtyDez]

Oladipo on the block for whatever reason? He was showing signs of all-star potential last year but regressed a bit which is why it's a great time to buy. I'm sure Orlando is asking for a ton in return though. He may not be the best fit but I don't really care right now. Get the talent first.

[bwgood77]

In markieffs absolute best year was he ever worth more than just a mid-first round pick and a role player in a trade? I can't say that he was ever an "impact player." Maybe a good 6th man of the year at best. That is also why I don't see his value increasing.

I'm sure McD says he wants that and does want that, but he's going to say he wants more than he will likely ultimately take.

The teams after him are playoff teams, so they probably are offering a late 1st. A young player could mean anything. Truthfully, many failed draft picks are like cars. Their value may hold to the team that bought them, but the market isn't strong. For instance, see Thomas Robinson. I think guys that have yet to show anything in the league plus a late first isn't all that unreasonable imo.

I agree...a late first isn't worth a whole lot and we already have one of them...if we got another the only good things are that they would be locked in deals at about the lowest deal you will find, and we could possibly package both to move up if needed.

If it's someone like Detroit, or that lotto pick from Toronto, then just the pick and filler works for me (provided filler isn't long term salary locked up). Not sure how long Illy's deal is, but I'd be just as happy going with Leuer, but I guess Illy would provide some stability in case Leuer went elsewhere (though it would be more likely he left if we got Illy). Leuer probably wouldn't get a starting gig anywhere though so maybe he stays anyway. No real news lately on that old Houston deal we talked about. They are the team that should make a move. Would be nice if they did and gave up their first (if they have it) and they still missed the playoffs or barely got in. Or Terrence Jones.

[spanishninja]

Oladipo on the block for whatever reason? He was showing signs of all-star potential last year but regressed a bit which is why it's a great time to buy. I'm sure Orlando is asking for a ton in return though. He may not be the best fit but I don't really care right now. Get the talent first.

I'm not too high on Oladipo. Terrible shooter and bad ball-handling. Also wildly inconsistent, which is probably his biggest problem.

[TeamTragic]

Oladipo on the block for whatever reason? He was showing signs of all-star potential last year but regressed a bit which is why it's a great time to buy. I'm sure Orlando is asking for a ton in return though. He may not be the best fit but I don't really care right now. Get the talent first.

You mean he isn't worth more than Gordon after his dunk contest performance?

[LukasBMW]

We don't need Oladipo. He's an undersized shooting guard that can't shoot. We have Booker who is a full sized shooting guard who can make it rain like lil wayne.

[SarcasticSun]

2019 pick is protected isnt it. If not then put a condition on it

Wait we are both off. The Suns own the Heat's 2017 pick top-7 protected and the Heat's 2021 pick completely unprotected. http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Suns.htm

Mr. Puddles to the rescue.

Suns will get the 2018 heat pick because Miami has to give their pick to Philadelphia this year. In 2019 it becomes unprotected if Miami drafts in the top 7 in 2018 (that's what you were thinking of). Then 2021 is unprotected.

So potentially we have 2 unprotected picks

Wouldn't we get their 2017 pick? The sixers should get the Heat 2016 pick as long as the Heat finish outside the top ten which they will. So then we get the 2017 pick, top 7 protected.