Game 40: Phoenix Suns (13-26) @ Indiana Pacers (21-16)

[jcsunsfan]

Here is the problem. The vets don't like it when their minutes are reduced for tanking purposes. It impacts their career stats.

I think you are going to see weird rotations like this. Young players get lots of minutes followed by games where vets get lots of minutes. There will be a lot of dnp's because of nagging injuries and the flu and the like. It will basically be big games followed by rest games.


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[AtheJ415]

Here is the problem. The vets don't like it when their minutes are reduced for tanking purposes. It impacts their career stats.

I think you are going to see weird rotations like this. Young players get lots of minutes followed by games where vets get lots of minutes. There will be a lot of dnp's because of nagging injuries and the flu and the like. It will basically be big games followed by rest games.


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Well, then they should play better, because on the season the #1 reason we're losing games aside from Bledsoe's injury is the play of the vets. The youngsters (Booker, Warren, Len), are drastically outplaying the vets in almost every meaningful metric.

The truth is, the more minutes the vets receive, the more successful the tank is.

[jcsunsfan]

Another great game by Booker. He is actually amazingly consistent for a player that age--even more so than Warren at the moment. A good game out of Kieff is a good thing. It can only help us move him for something decent.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Was that what constitutes a good game from Morris?

7 of 18 FG and 3 Turnovers.

We really set the bar low.

[Qwigglez]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdx98CyCnP4[/youtube]

Check out Booker on the play at the 35 second mark. Chandler sets the screen, Booker has the ball and in a split second looks back at his man to verify he has plenty of space to pull off a jumper, he makes up his mind to pull instead of hitting Chandler on the roll, making sure Chandler's man wasn't denying the jumper either. It's a great play that I didn't think a 19 year old rookie would be able to make it look so easy. The game seems like it already slowed down for Booker.

[RunDogGun]

Damn Archie, you get to the line ten times, and only convert four? Dude, step it up. Stay hungry for free points.

[RunDogGun]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdx98CyCnP4[/youtube]

Check out Booker on the play at the 35 second mark. Chandler sets the screen, Booker has the ball and in a split second looks back at his man to verify he has plenty of space to pull off a jumper, he makes up his mind to pull instead of hitting Chandler on the roll, making sure Chandler's man wasn't denying the jumper either. It's a great play that I didn't think a 19 year old rookie would be able to make it look so easy. The game seems like it already slowed down for Booker.

What's great about that was the use of screens by Booker and the team. That was the Jeff Hornacek moves and use of screens I thought Jeff would introduce. Glad to see one of our guards embrassing it.

[TASTIC]

I like the Booker-Teletovic-Chandler trio for spacing etc...Horrible defensively, but all are team-first and seem to mesh well.

Still can't for the life of me figure Goodwin out. He's only 21 and as RDG mentioned, got to the line 10 times and made 4? He was 0-5 the other week and 1-4 earlier in the season. It seems like I'm nitpicking but he CANNOT complain about minutes etc because when he's gotten chances he hasn't converted them. Free throws he should be 80% with the amount of times he gets fouled going to the rim.

This Brown looked ok - good size and familiarity with Warren too. Looks like a good tank commander if they deal Knight! haha

[Jarlaxle0204]

I have no problem with Goodwin not being a great shooter from 3. It's just not going to happen with him, but for someone who gets to the rim so much and with ease, he absolutely needs to improve his free throw shooting. He has no arc at all on his shot and even the free throws that go in don't look great. He needs to be shooting 200 free throws a day.

[NavLDO]

Archie still can't shoot

But look at often he's getting to the line. But yes, if you don't make them when you get there, well then...

Jeff needs to put Goodwin on the line in practice...say, 300 shots a practice?

EDIT: Ha! I didn't get to the end of the thread, (thus didn't see Jarlaxle's post) before I posted my above. Looks like Jarlaxle and I are on the same wavelength!

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Everyone nitpicking with Archie. Dude took a tremendous leap forward tonight. Patience!! AND HEY, at least for one game, our starting PG did not turn the ball over 4+ times while also running the offense rather than looking for his own shot first.

::shots fired!::

[bwgood77]

Archie still can't shoot

But look at often he's getting to the line. But yes, if you don't make them when you get there, well then...

Jeff needs to put Goodwin on the line in practice...say, 300 shots a practice?

EDIT: Ha! I didn't get to the end of the thread, (thus didn't see Jarlaxle's post) before I posted my above. Looks like Jarlaxle and I are on the same wavelength!

I don't mind if he can't shoot, as long as he continues to improve on passing. If he can just become an effective passer and finisher, that is fine as a backup, especially considering he will likely be playing with quite a few good shooters and floor spreaders often.

[Frank Lee]

Here is the problem. The vets don't like it when their minutes are reduced for tanking purposes. It impacts their career stats.

I think you are going to see weird rotations like this. Young players get lots of minutes followed by games where vets get lots of minutes. There will be a lot of dnp's because of nagging injuries and the flu and the like. It will basically be big games followed by rest games.


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Well, then they should play better, because on the season the #1 reason we're losing games aside from Bledsoe's injury is the play of the vets. The youngsters (Booker, Warren, Len), are drastically outplaying the vets in almost every meaningful metric.

The truth is, the more minutes the vets receive, the more successful the tank is.

Define Vet ? 3 yrs in the league ? 26 yrs old ? what is it... will Booker be a vet when he is 24 ? But Knight can't be one till he's 26 ? Is Knight one now ?

This team has spiraled, and I don't think there is one specific thing that spins the top. Multiple new players, poor system (coach), bad PG play (yes, I said it...stats be damned) nagging injuries, malcontent player(s?), .... its a toxic brew.

[bwgood77]

Here is the problem. The vets don't like it when their minutes are reduced for tanking purposes. It impacts their career stats.

I think you are going to see weird rotations like this. Young players get lots of minutes followed by games where vets get lots of minutes. There will be a lot of dnp's because of nagging injuries and the flu and the like. It will basically be big games followed by rest games.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Well, then they should play better, because on the season the #1 reason we're losing games aside from Bledsoe's injury is the play of the vets. The youngsters (Booker, Warren, Len), are drastically outplaying the vets in almost every meaningful metric.

The truth is, the more minutes the vets receive, the more successful the tank is.

Define Vet ? 3 yrs in the league ? 26 yrs old ? what is it... will Booker be a vet when he is 24 ? But Knight can't be one till he's 26 ? Is Knight one now ?

This team has spiraled, and I don't think there is one specific thing that spins the top. Multiple new players, poor system (coach), bad PG play (yes, I said it...stats be damned) nagging injuries, malcontent player(s?), .... its a toxic brew.

I am not sure what meaningful metrics keep being referred to, but based on real plus minus, no one has played well, outside of Bledsoe...the only other positive (from a few days ago when I looked) was Leuer, everyone else was a negative and I don't recall those young guys being higher than the vets...pretty sure they were lower. So I'd like to see the meaningful metrics being tossed around here.

Not saying the young guys shouldn't play, but as you mentioned there have been many things wrong with the team and organization this year.

[jcsunsfan]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdx98CyCnP4[/youtube]

Check out Booker on the play at the 35 second mark. Chandler sets the screen, Booker has the ball and in a split second looks back at his man to verify he has plenty of space to pull off a jumper, he makes up his mind to pull instead of hitting Chandler on the roll, making sure Chandler's man wasn't denying the jumper either. It's a great play that I didn't think a 19 year old rookie would be able to make it look so easy. The game seems like it already slowed down for Booker.

Love the plays now being run for him. As a big man, you do not mind setting those screens when the guard makes use of them. Booker has such a sweet quick release. No wasted mostion.

[NavLDO]

Here is the problem. The vets don't like it when their minutes are reduced for tanking purposes. It impacts their career stats.

I think you are going to see weird rotations like this. Young players get lots of minutes followed by games where vets get lots of minutes. There will be a lot of dnp's because of nagging injuries and the flu and the like. It will basically be big games followed by rest games.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Well, then they should play better, because on the season the #1 reason we're losing games aside from Bledsoe's injury is the play of the vets. The youngsters (Booker, Warren, Len), are drastically outplaying the vets in almost every meaningful metric.

The truth is, the more minutes the vets receive, the more successful the tank is.

Define Vet ? 3 yrs in the league ? 26 yrs old ? what is it... will Booker be a vet when he is 24 ? But Knight can't be one till he's 26 ? Is Knight one now ?

This team has spiraled, and I don't think there is one specific thing that spins the top. Multiple new players, poor system (coach), bad PG play (yes, I said it...stats be damned) nagging injuries, malcontent player(s?), .... its a toxic brew.

I think, when discussing Vets, it's probably a mix between age and experience--and that experience? It's TYPE of minutes played in the NBA, and how MANY minutes in the NBA. Is a Senior in the draft more experienced than a Freshman? Absolutely, but that experience becomes a ton more important once in the NBA, IF they are getting useful minutes.

I would consider Knight a Vet at this point. He's started a lot of NBA games. In fact, he's started as many games as Bledsoe, Len, Teletovic, and Leuer combined (303).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2016&p1=knighbr03&y2=2016&p2=lenal01&y3=2016&p3=goodwar01&y4=2016&p4=bledser01&y5=2016&p5=leuerjo01&y6=2016&p6=teletmi01

So yes, Knight, to me, is at least as much, or more of a vet at age 24 than Teletovic is at age 30.

That said, Bledsoe has just 1000 minutes less than Knight, so I'd consider them about equal, since Bledsoe is a little older, but a little less experienced.

Anyway, not suggesting that is how people should look at it, but it's how I view it, as a mix of all those things, because yes, there is something to be said regarding maturity with age, but there also is with meaningful minutes in the NBA.

[thamadkant]

I like the Booker-Teletovic-Chandler trio for spacing etc...Horrible defensively, but all are team-first and seem to mesh well.

Still can't for the life of me figure Goodwin out. He's only 21 and as RDG mentioned, got to the line 10 times and made 4? He was 0-5 the other week and 1-4 earlier in the season. It seems like I'm nitpicking but he CANNOT complain about minutes etc because when he's gotten chances he hasn't converted them. Free throws he should be 80% with the amount of times he gets fouled going to the rim.

This Brown looked ok - good size and familiarity with Warren too. Looks like a good tank commander if they deal Knight! haha

80%???

Plenty of "All-Star" wing players shot 70% in the past.

I think 70% is a good minimum to target.... and Goodwin is around 69% career wise so far. So NOT bad... but could be better. So I do think you are being nit picky with a 29th pick 21 year old benched all year player on 1 million a year.

[TeamTragic]

No surprise that Booker/Warren/Len are our core. Booker can shoot and his confidence is contagious. Love that Warren is aggressive as well. This is what this team should be about and if Hornacek/McD don't see that then we are doomed.

Sarver on the other hand is just an idiot. He can't help being impatient and stupid.

[thamadkant]

I really like Goodwin as backup PG. He looks like Bledsoe back in his clipper days. But Goodwin's 6'10 wingspan, high 30s vertical, 6'5 height still very salivating as a defensive disrupter of athletic PGs.

[rsavaj]

I like that Archie's improving but the areas that he needs to improve(mainly his jumper) are all fixable with a lot of practice; it's his 3rd year and his shot is more broken than ever. That doesn't inspire much confidence.