Game 42: Phoenix Suns (13-28) @ Minnesota T-Wolves (12-29)

[letsgosuns]

For everyone talking about how great Bledsoe is, take this into account. The Suns were 12-19 WITH BLEDSOE and he got hurt during their 32nd game of the year against the 76ers, which they lost. And at the time he got hurt, the Suns were losing to the 76ers in the first quarter and still looked terrible with him on the court.

If you think a 12-19 record is good, Idk what to say.

In addition, with a healthy Bledsoe last year and the team still in the playoff race, the Suns finished the season 1-10. So factoring that record in as well as this year before Bledsoe got hurt (Bledsoe missed one game this year when the Suns lost to the Spurs), the Suns are 13-28 in their last 41 games with Bledsoe. That includes taking out the Spurs and 76ers losses. Now tell me again how much better this team is with Bledsoe leading them. What a joke. Bledsoe is a better player than Knight but it does not matter. Neither Bledsoe or Knight are any good at running a team and you will not be a good team if they are your starting guards.

[lilfishi22]

Spoiler:

I don't know exactly what you mean. I knew he was injured quite a bit (it was last night) but today I examined closer and there is a big gash behind is neck, and smaller ones all over. I think he will be fine, and I wasn't sure if it was worth taking him to the vet because it wasn't quite bad enough to where blood was flowing everywhere or anything. I'm slightly worried about an infection, but it just pisses me off that the guy let his dog run off like that.

It's the second time it happened....one time a dog wasn't watching his pitbull at the dog park, and my dog likes to kind of play-fight, and even play bark, but it is always in playfullness, so sometimes, if the other dog thinks it is more than that my dog is in trouble.

Yeah like if it was bad enough your dog needed to go to the vet, I'd have the owner pay for it just because it's their responsibility.

That's happened to my dog ones. She was kind of bullying a smaller dog the whole time and when it went to drink water she came up to the small dog again and a bigger dog from the same family kind of bit my dog on the snout as a warning kind of thing. Left her with a gash on top of the nose and lip. Wasn't bad enough to take to a vet but yeah.

This is pretty OT, so I'll just chuck a spoiler tag on here

[bwgood77]

Just my opinion, but I think that Hornacek is gonna be fired tonight. I would bet about it.

I think they'll wait until the ASG. Let Watson or someone on the bench run the show through the end of the season and figure things out from there.

It's pretty good timing to do it now, to do it before a home stand. I have no idea. I don't know if there is a real point to fire him only because this season is finished anyway. I just really wonder what Sarver and McD are thinking. I'm sure McD feels a little bad about not giving Hornacek an ideal situation, but I doubt he is going to say to Sarver "I didn't give him the best situation" so then it comes down to what Sarver thinks. But it's fairly obvious it's time to move on.

[thamadkant]

I don't know how I'm gonna watch the rest of the season. We still have 40 games to play. This is terrible basketball.

+1
I watch other teams games to help me feel justified in paying for League Pass.

I mean, I would watch more Suns games from start to finish, if the youth are starting and playing tons of minutes.

Im not keen on watching a terrible team with veterans playing for themselves.

[lilfishi22]

For everyone talking about how great Bledsoe is, take this into account. The Suns were 12-19 WITH BLEDSOE and he got hurt during their 32nd game of the year against the 76ers, which they lost. And at the time he got hurt, the Suns were losing to the 76ers in the first quarter and still looked terrible with him on the court.

If you think a 12-19 record is good, Idk what to say.

In addition, with a healthy Bledsoe last year and the team still in the playoff race, the Suns finished the season 1-10. So factoring that record in as well as this year before Bledsoe got hurt (Bledsoe missed one game this year when the Suns lost to the Spurs), the Suns are 13-28 in their last 41 games with Bledsoe. That includes taking out the Spurs and 76ers losses. Now tell me again how much better this team is with Bledsoe leading them. What a joke. Bledsoe is a better player than Knight but it does not matter. Neither Bledsoe or Knight are any good at running a team and you will not be a good team if they are your starting guards.

The Suns were bad with Bledsoe and clearly worse without him. We did well when we had Bledsoe/Dragic but that's because we also happened to have pretty good complementary pieces around them

[bwgood77]

For everyone talking about how great Bledsoe is, take this into account. The Suns were 12-19 WITH BLEDSOE and he got hurt during their 32nd game of the year against the 76ers, which they lost. And at the time he got hurt, the Suns were losing to the 76ers in the first quarter and still looked terrible with him on the court.

If you think a 12-19 record is good, Idk what to say.

In addition, with a healthy Bledsoe last year and the team still in the playoff race, the Suns finished the season 1-10. So factoring that record in as well as this year before Bledsoe got hurt (Bledsoe missed one game this year when the Suns lost to the Spurs), the Suns are 13-28 in their last 41 games with Bledsoe. That includes taking out the Spurs and 76ers losses. Now tell me again how much better this team is with Bledsoe leading them. What a joke. Bledsoe is a better player than Knight but it does not matter. Neither Bledsoe or Knight are any good at running a team and you will not be a good team if they are your starting guards.

I can't argue much there, and I think I mentioned (in a response to AtheJ) that the team this year wasn't that great even WITH Bledsoe.

But I think you have to try and stick with him for now considering he is still probably our best player, and his trade value is likely very low with the injury and all.

I think it's going to be a long while until we have something to be really excited about unless we get a top 2 and preferably the top pick.

[AtheJ415]

For everyone talking about how great Bledsoe is, take this into account. The Suns were 12-19 WITH BLEDSOE and he got hurt during their 32nd game of the year against the 76ers, which they lost. And at the time he got hurt, the Suns were losing to the 76ers in the first quarter and still looked terrible with him on the court.

If you think a 12-19 record is good, Idk what to say.

In addition, with a healthy Bledsoe last year and the team still in the playoff race, the Suns finished the season 1-10. So factoring that record in as well as this year before Bledsoe got hurt (Bledsoe missed one game this year when the Suns lost to the Spurs), the Suns are 13-28 in their last 41 games with Bledsoe. That includes taking out the Spurs and 76ers losses. Now tell me again how much better this team is with Bledsoe leading them. What a joke. Bledsoe is a better player than Knight but it does not matter. Neither Bledsoe or Knight are any good at running a team and you will not be a good team if they are your starting guards.

The Suns were bad with Bledsoe and clearly worse without him. We did well when we had Bledsoe/Dragic but that's because we also happened to have pretty good complementary pieces around them

It's pretty simple: With Bledsoe we were competing for a playoff spot (yes, even at 12-19, because NO and Utah suck this year), and we were competitive in most every game. Without him, we're getting demolished by near record setting amounts by teams who STILL don't have more than 12 wins on the season, and scoring 20 points in a half. That is a huge difference in play by the team.

[AtheJ415]

For everyone talking about how great Bledsoe is, take this into account. The Suns were 12-19 WITH BLEDSOE and he got hurt during their 32nd game of the year against the 76ers, which they lost. And at the time he got hurt, the Suns were losing to the 76ers in the first quarter and still looked terrible with him on the court.

If you think a 12-19 record is good, Idk what to say.

In addition, with a healthy Bledsoe last year and the team still in the playoff race, the Suns finished the season 1-10. So factoring that record in as well as this year before Bledsoe got hurt (Bledsoe missed one game this year when the Suns lost to the Spurs), the Suns are 13-28 in their last 41 games with Bledsoe. That includes taking out the Spurs and 76ers losses. Now tell me again how much better this team is with Bledsoe leading them. What a joke. Bledsoe is a better player than Knight but it does not matter. Neither Bledsoe or Knight are any good at running a team and you will not be a good team if they are your starting guards.

I can't argue much there, and I think I mentioned (in a response to AtheJ) that the team this year wasn't that great even WITH Bledsoe.

But I think you have to try and stick with him for now considering he is still probably our best player, and his trade value is likely very low with the injury and all.

I think it's going to be a long while until we have something to be really excited about unless we get a top 2 and preferably the top pick.

I don't think anybody is saying that we were good with Bledsoe. I said we were competitive for a playoff seed in this year's West, but that's just because NO and Utah are also inexplicably bad.

But how good Bledsoe is isn't the same discussion as how good the team is. With Bledsoe, we didn't get blown out much. Since he's left, we've won only a couple games and have been thoroughly blown out by a number of teams who STILL don't have as many wins as us, and are setting NBA records for being bad. How we've played with and without Bledsoe is a big gap, even if we weren't necessarily good with him.

[SunsRback4Good]

Did we win?

[bwgood77]

For everyone talking about how great Bledsoe is, take this into account. The Suns were 12-19 WITH BLEDSOE and he got hurt during their 32nd game of the year against the 76ers, which they lost. And at the time he got hurt, the Suns were losing to the 76ers in the first quarter and still looked terrible with him on the court.

If you think a 12-19 record is good, Idk what to say.

In addition, with a healthy Bledsoe last year and the team still in the playoff race, the Suns finished the season 1-10. So factoring that record in as well as this year before Bledsoe got hurt (Bledsoe missed one game this year when the Suns lost to the Spurs), the Suns are 13-28 in their last 41 games with Bledsoe. That includes taking out the Spurs and 76ers losses. Now tell me again how much better this team is with Bledsoe leading them. What a joke. Bledsoe is a better player than Knight but it does not matter. Neither Bledsoe or Knight are any good at running a team and you will not be a good team if they are your starting guards.

I can't argue much there, and I think I mentioned (in a response to AtheJ) that the team this year wasn't that great even WITH Bledsoe.

But I think you have to try and stick with him for now considering he is still probably our best player, and his trade value is likely very low with the injury and all.

I think it's going to be a long while until we have something to be really excited about unless we get a top 2 and preferably the top pick.

I don't think anybody is saying that we were good with Bledsoe. I said we were competitive for a playoff seed in this year's West, but that's just because NO and Utah are also inexplicably bad.

But how good Bledsoe is isn't the same discussion as how good the team is. With Bledsoe, we didn't get blown out much. Since he's left, we've won only a couple games and have been thoroughly blown out by a number of teams who STILL don't have as many wins as us, and are setting NBA records for being bad. How we've played with and without Bledsoe is a big gap, even if we weren't necessarily good with him.

I agree we are much better with Bledsoe. Your earlier argument about us being a team that has the talent that SHOULD make the playoffs didn't specify at the time "only because Utah or New Orleans are so bad" so maybe either you have decided to add more ammo to your argument or I didn't realize that was what you meant earlier.

[bwgood77]

Did we win?

No, but we only lost by 30.

[letsgosuns]

For everyone talking about how great Bledsoe is, take this into account. The Suns were 12-19 WITH BLEDSOE and he got hurt during their 32nd game of the year against the 76ers, which they lost. And at the time he got hurt, the Suns were losing to the 76ers in the first quarter and still looked terrible with him on the court.

If you think a 12-19 record is good, Idk what to say.

In addition, with a healthy Bledsoe last year and the team still in the playoff race, the Suns finished the season 1-10. So factoring that record in as well as this year before Bledsoe got hurt (Bledsoe missed one game this year when the Suns lost to the Spurs), the Suns are 13-28 in their last 41 games with Bledsoe. That includes taking out the Spurs and 76ers losses. Now tell me again how much better this team is with Bledsoe leading them. What a joke. Bledsoe is a better player than Knight but it does not matter. Neither Bledsoe or Knight are any good at running a team and you will not be a good team if they are your starting guards.

The Suns were bad with Bledsoe and clearly worse without him. We did well when we had Bledsoe/Dragic but that's because we also happened to have pretty good complementary pieces around them

It's pretty simple: With Bledsoe we were competing for a playoff spot (yes, even at 12-19, because NO and Utah suck this year), and we were competitive in most every game. Without him, we're getting demolished by near record setting amounts by teams who STILL don't have more than 12 wins on the season, and scoring 20 points in a half. That is a huge difference in play by the team.

That is exactly my point though. You still suck either way. And I disagree about competing for a playoff spot at 12-19 with him. Even with him, the Suns were looking worse and worse so they would have fallen out of the playoff race most likely anyway, especially with other teams playing better.

Not to mention, but is that your goal? Make the playoffs as the eight seed with a bad record just so you can get swept by the one seed? There were games the Suns still got blown out with Bledsoe. Quite a few games actually.

Got to face facts. The Suns had one fluke year of playing well under Hornacek and that was because players that are no longer on the team were having the greatest years of their careers by far. It obviously was not Bledsoe who was the leader of that 2013-14 team.

[lilfishi22]

The Suns were bad with Bledsoe and clearly worse without him. We did well when we had Bledsoe/Dragic but that's because we also happened to have pretty good complementary pieces around them

It's pretty simple: With Bledsoe we were competing for a playoff spot (yes, even at 12-19, because NO and Utah suck this year), and we were competitive in most every game. Without him, we're getting demolished by near record setting amounts by teams who STILL don't have more than 12 wins on the season, and scoring 20 points in a half. That is a huge difference in play by the team.

Good point.

[bwgood77]

The Suns were bad with Bledsoe and clearly worse without him. We did well when we had Bledsoe/Dragic but that's because we also happened to have pretty good complementary pieces around them

It's pretty simple: With Bledsoe we were competing for a playoff spot (yes, even at 12-19, because NO and Utah suck this year), and we were competitive in most every game. Without him, we're getting demolished by near record setting amounts by teams who STILL don't have more than 12 wins on the season, and scoring 20 points in a half. That is a huge difference in play by the team.

That is exactly my point though. You still suck either way. And I disagree about competing for a playoff spot at 12-19 with him. Even with him, the Suns were looking worse and worse so they would have fallen out of the playoff race most likely anyway, especially with other teams playing better.

Not to mention, but is that your goal? Make the playoffs as the eight seed with a bad record just so you can get swept by the one seed? There were games the Suns still got blown out with Bledsoe. Quite a few games actually.

Got to face facts. The Suns had one fluke year of playing well under Hornacek and that was because players that are no longer on the team were having the greatest years of their careers by far. It obviously was not Bledsoe who was the leader of that 2013-14 team.

Good point.

[AtheJ415]

I can't argue much there, and I think I mentioned (in a response to AtheJ) that the team this year wasn't that great even WITH Bledsoe.

But I think you have to try and stick with him for now considering he is still probably our best player, and his trade value is likely very low with the injury and all.

I think it's going to be a long while until we have something to be really excited about unless we get a top 2 and preferably the top pick.

I don't think anybody is saying that we were good with Bledsoe. I said we were competitive for a playoff seed in this year's West, but that's just because NO and Utah are also inexplicably bad.

But how good Bledsoe is isn't the same discussion as how good the team is. With Bledsoe, we didn't get blown out much. Since he's left, we've won only a couple games and have been thoroughly blown out by a number of teams who STILL don't have as many wins as us, and are setting NBA records for being bad. How we've played with and without Bledsoe is a big gap, even if we weren't necessarily good with him.

I agree we are much better with Bledsoe. Your earlier argument about us being a team that has the talent that SHOULD make the playoffs didn't specify at the time "only because Utah or New Orleans are so bad" so maybe either you have decided to add more ammo to your argument or I didn't realize that was what you meant earlier.

Personally, I think we should compete with those teams regardless. Utah has more raw talent, but it's less developed and younger with just as many overall holes. They have the worst PG problem I've seen in a long time. I think they're in a better spot rebuilding wise, but not to make a playoff spot coming into this season (same as Minnesota. Talent means different things in different contexts). We completely disagree on everything NO. NO does not have a single player I'd want at his current contract aside from Davis and Anderson, and Anderson is about to be an FA who will soon be overpaid. NO is underachieving, but I don't think they were really better than us last year (just a bit luckier with all our buzzer beater losses and injuries and turnover), and I think we should've been better coming into the year with the additions of Chandler, Leuer, and Tele. NO didn't add anybody of real significance aside from getting a couple healthy, but again I don't see their other players as positives. At all.

We are a team that is so poorly coached I'm not sure how to gauge what "should've" happened, but I can say from what I've seen of the team last year and the players coming in, particularly with how unexpectedly good Leuer and Tele turned out to be, yes, we should've been competing for that 8 spot. Easily. This season is the worst coached I can remember from a Suns head coach aside from Terry Porter, and it's really getting there.

[Kerrsed]

Good point.

[AtheJ415]

It's pretty simple: With Bledsoe we were competing for a playoff spot (yes, even at 12-19, because NO and Utah suck this year), and we were competitive in most every game. Without him, we're getting demolished by near record setting amounts by teams who STILL don't have more than 12 wins on the season, and scoring 20 points in a half. That is a huge difference in play by the team.

That is exactly my point though. You still suck either way. And I disagree about competing for a playoff spot at 12-19 with him. Even with him, the Suns were looking worse and worse so they would have fallen out of the playoff race most likely anyway, especially with other teams playing better.

Not to mention, but is that your goal? Make the playoffs as the eight seed with a bad record just so you can get swept by the one seed? There were games the Suns still got blown out with Bledsoe. Quite a few games actually.

Got to face facts. The Suns had one fluke year of playing well under Hornacek and that was because players that are no longer on the team were having the greatest years of their careers by far. It obviously was not Bledsoe who was the leader of that 2013-14 team.

I've already said I don't think we should have been going for the playoffs. There seems to be some confusion here. I think we had the talent to make the playoffs heading into the year, but I don't believe that should've been our goal. Hell, I've wanted Tucker traded for years, I hated the Price signing, and while I understood the Chandler signing, it wasn't what I would've done. Those are 2 different things. You're blending 3 discussions here. I think Bledsoe's a great player, and his value to this team is shown by how bad we are without him. I think the team was good enough talent-wise to make the playoffs this year, and I think that despite that fact, it should not have been the primary goal of the team.

I'm not sure what facts I should be facing. Bledsoe is a great player. And he's indisputably valuable to this team. If a team goes from bad with a player to record-settingly awful without him, how is that somehow showing any different?

Oh, and by the way, aren't you a Rondo and Rubio fan? Because your entire logic about record flies in the fact of either of them being anything other than awful. Hell, I guess Anthony Davis can't be the star of his team given NO's record, same with Cousins in Sac. After all, they've lead their teams to fewer wins than Bledsoe. I guess they're just losers too. Got to face facts I guess. The real truth is, there isn't any number individual to Bledsoe you could point to this year that would suggest he was bad at running the team. There's a reason for that. Your crusade against Bledsoe is flat out nonsensical. His numbers this year are very much elite, and given his age, there's not a single player you could point to playing better aside from Lillard.

[lilfishi22]

Personally, I think we should compete with those teams regardless. Utah has more raw talent, but it's less developed and younger with just as many overall holes. They have the worst PG problem I've seen in a long time. I think they're in a better spot rebuilding wise, but not to make a playoff spot coming into this season (same as Minnesota. Talent means different things in different contexts). We completely disagree on everything NO. NO does not have a single player I'd want at his current contract aside from Davis and Anderson, and Anderson is about to be an FA who will soon be overpaid. NO is underachieving, but I don't think they were really better than us last year (just a bit luckier with all our buzzer beater losses and injuries and turnover), and I think we should've been better coming into the year with the additions of Chandler, Leuer, and Tele. NO didn't add anybody of real significance aside from getting a couple healthy, but again I don't see their other players as positives. At all.

We are a team that is so poorly coached I'm not sure how to gauge what "should've" happened, but I can say from what I've seen of the team last year and the players coming in, particularly with how unexpectedly good Leuer and Tele turned out to be, yes, we should've been competing for that 8 spot. Easily. This season is the worst coached I can remember from a Suns head coach aside from Terry Porter, and it's really getting there.

I think it's a combination of things, not just coaching. The bad fits, the injury to Chandler early in the season and of course the coaching. We just never found the rhythm and that has a lot to do with the ill-fitting players we have on the team. I'm sure Hornacek wanted to do so much more but had to keep things simple because the two guys running the team can't run a team. Either way, it's culminated to the point where it appears to be entirely a coaching issue.

[bwgood77]

Good point.

I think we just need to figure out a way to get Terrence Williams, Austin Rivers, Perry Jones III, and with that big three, good things are bound to happen.

[JohnWall2]

Good point.

I think we just need to figure out a way to get Terrence Williams, Austin Rivers, Perry Jones III, and with that big three, good things are bound to happen.

And once we get them, no way do we trade any of those pieces for Paul George.