Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion

[bwgood77]

Did you guys hear Eddie House talking about Alex Len on azsports? Dude is a true hater. Essentially thinks he's a benchwarmer in this league.

I disagree, but I wonder what the FO thinks. Dude can't hit anything within 6 feet of the basket that isn't a dunk. No touch.

No, but I wonder what made him a true hater? It's weird, because Len used to be money from around the ft line...those shots he used to sink all the time.

[MathiasPW]

Did you guys hear Eddie House talking about Alex Len on azsports? Dude is a true hater. Essentially thinks he's a benchwarmer in this league.

I disagree, but I wonder what the FO thinks. Dude can't hit anything within 6 feet of the basket that isn't a dunk. No touch.

No, but I wonder what made him a true hater? It's weird, because Len used to be money from around the ft line...those shots he used to sink all the time.

That is still true. Len hits decently from FT range, and decently from 2 inches from the rim (dunk). It's what happens in between that is mind-puzzling

[dremill24]

Len IS a benchwarmer. Why does that make him a hater?

[gaspar]

Definitely isn't a locker room cancer IMO. Team USA seemed to enjoy each others company over the summer, I didn't hear any grumbling about Cousins then.

I see a lot of his personality issues seemingly borne from just frustration of being on a losing team and not having any sort of structure. I remember when the Kings fired Mike Malone, Boogie wasn't happy about it because even though they were losing, Malone brought structure and he was someone Boogie respected. Having a coach and structure he respected was big for him.

Cousins was a headcase even when he played on one of the best college teams in history, way before he started playing for the Kings. Seems like "the Kings are a mess" is an easy excuse for Cousins' every stupid behavior. The Kings ARE dysfunctional, but DeMarcus Cousins is a big part of the problem for that team.

[LukasBMW]

Eddie House must read this forum.

I've been a Len supporter, but my patience is growing thin with him.

[phnart]

Len has been fairly disappointing. I've cut him slack for being young and I can't really blame him for getting injured, but it is time for him to step up and earn that $14million next year. Maybe he wants it bad enough to go and get it from the Suns? If not, he's still a very rich young man either way, but hopefully he'll be somebody else's back up center.

I'm guessing Watson will motivate him.

Go Suns! Get that opening victory tonight.

[Zelaznyrules]

Did you guys hear Eddie House talking about Alex Len on azsports? Dude is a true hater. Essentially thinks he's a benchwarmer in this league.

I disagree, but I wonder what the FO thinks. Dude can't hit anything within 6 feet of the basket that isn't a dunk. No touch.

No, but I wonder what made him a true hater? It's weird, because Len used to be money from around the ft line...those shots he used to sink all the time.

That is still true. Len hits decently from FT range, and decently from 2 inches from the rim (dunk). It's what happens in between that is mind-puzzling

Are you looking at stats when you say this? I ask because, just from watching him play, this doesn't seem possible. I haven't kept track but I've been dismayed by how poorly he's been shooting from pretty much everywhere on the court but especially from in and near free throw distance. He makes a decent percentage of his layups and slams but I wouldn't want him taking even a 2 foot jumper.

[Zelaznyrules]

Cousins was a headcase even when he played on one of the best college teams in history, way before he started playing for the Kings. Seems like "the Kings are a mess" is an easy excuse for Cousins' every stupid behavior. The Kings ARE dysfunctional, but DeMarcus Cousins is a big part of the problem for that team.

He has certainly been a big part of the problem but let's not sell the current owner short. He's responsible for much of the mess of the past 3 seasons. In Cousins defense I would also add that he has a great reputation within his local community. I don't want him in Phoenix but mostly because I just question whether you can win with an offense first big man that dominates the ball as much as Cousins does. Despite his jaw dropping stats, I don't think he helps a team at a top 5 or top 10 level, more like a top 30 level (not at all scientific, obviously). If he was available to us at a top 30 cost, I'd be interested, but I'm pretty sure he's carrying a top 5 or top 10 price tag.

[lilfishi22]

Definitely isn't a locker room cancer IMO. Team USA seemed to enjoy each others company over the summer, I didn't hear any grumbling about Cousins then.

I see a lot of his personality issues seemingly borne from just frustration of being on a losing team and not having any sort of structure. I remember when the Kings fired Mike Malone, Boogie wasn't happy about it because even though they were losing, Malone brought structure and he was someone Boogie respected. Having a coach and structure he respected was big for him.

Cousins was a headcase even when he played on one of the best college teams in history, way before he started playing for the Kings. Seems like "the Kings are a mess" is an easy excuse for Cousins' every stupid behavior. The Kings ARE dysfunctional, but DeMarcus Cousins is a big part of the problem for that team.

Players mature and winning helps accelerate that maturity process. When you don't have many wins and you're now playing for your 6th coach in 7 seasons, there just isn't any continuity, structure or trust to build off. When you don't have those key ingredients and you're losing, it's not hard to see why frustration sets in.

I also don't buy that he was a headcase in college so he'll always be a head case. We've seen what he's like when he's playing for a solid coach that respects the team and has earned the respect of its star player. We've seen what he's like when he's playing among other very high level athletes on a highly structured team in a high stakes tournament. We've read reports that he's a great team mate that's more high maintenance than most players but many stars are like that. The difference is that stars often play on teams with subpar front offices, often mismanaging the roster and coaching staff.

I'm not taking all the blame away from him because he has to take some blame for not being able to take his team to more than 33 wins when he's the star player. But I don't believe it's as much him being a head case and perhaps more to do with the team he has around him and the way the team has been coached. Looking at the rosters the Kings have put together in the time Cousins has been in the league, it's been absolutely god-awful.

[thamadkant]

Put Cousins under another alpha player and he'd be great... Assuming he respects the coach and the team is winning.


Winning fixes everything.

Look at JR Smith, Rasheed Wallace etc.


Put Cousins on a losing team and he'll be unhappy.



I would trade for Cousins assuming Suns have another trade coming that puts the Suns top 5 out west.

[dremill24]

I dont think its so cut & dry that just putting Cousins on a team with more wins will change his personality. The dude is a hot head with bad body language. That doesnt just go away with some wins. Even a 73-9 team runs into adversity. I wouldn't call his time w/ Team USA a good barometer either. He was with them for a few weeks and playing with a collection of talent he'll never be with again, and they ran into little resistance on the court. Very different from the grind and spotlight of an 82 game season on his every day job.

Not saying he can't change...but its a risk, and not a foregone conclusion that a change of scenery will do it.

We would be outbid by another team anyway.

[blee732]

I dont think its so cut & dry that just putting Cousins on a team with more wins will change his personality. The dude is a hot head with bad body language. That doesnt just go away with some wins. Even a 73-9 team runs into adversity. I wouldn't call his time w/ Team USA a good barometer either. He was with them for a few weeks and playing with a collection of talent he'll never be with again, and they ran into little resistance on the court. Very different from the grind and spotlight of an 82 game season on his every day job.

Not saying he can't change...but its a risk, and not a foregone conclusion that a change of scenery will do it.

We would be outbid by another team anyway.

I think that's a valid point, bringing Boogie into a winning situation doesn't mean he won't find something else that upsets him. Human nature is that we get used to new situations/environments so over time we don't subjectively feel happier.

That being said, it was the same with Barkley right? Eventually he found things he was unhappy with but I don't think many people would take back the trade to get him because he gave us a few great years, even if we didn't win the championship or return to the Finals.

In the end, kind of a moot point b/c we wouldn't be true contenders even if we traded for Cousins.

[thamadkant]

Kahwi is my favourite player and after watching him kill Warriors both side my thirst for a player like him on the Suns just grew 50% higher.

I like TJ Warren but he lacks defensive impact and elite abilities offensively.
I dont mind Tucker, good role player but his defense is still a couple of tiers below Kahwi and his offense is on another country in comparison.

Jimmy Butler and Paul George are still a couple of wishlist players for me for the Suns.

Pair one of them with Cousins and Suns youth and its all gravy.

[LukasBMW]

Kahwi is my favourite player and after watching him kill Warriors both side my thirst for a player like him on the Suns just grew 50% higher.

I like TJ Warren but he lacks defensive impact and elite abilities offensively.
I dont mind Tucker, good role player but his defense is still a couple of tiers below Kahwi and his offense is on another country in comparison.

Jimmy Butler and Paul George are still a couple of wishlist players for me for the Suns.

Pair one of them with Cousins and Suns youth and its all gravy.

PG/Booker/Cousins would be insane. I'd gut our roster to make that happen.

But if Indiana does well this year with the uptempo offense, I don't see PG going anywhere.

[AtheJ415]

Kahwi is my favourite player and after watching him kill Warriors both side my thirst for a player like him on the Suns just grew 50% higher.

I like TJ Warren but he lacks defensive impact and elite abilities offensively.
I dont mind Tucker, good role player but his defense is still a couple of tiers below Kahwi and his offense is on another country in comparison.

Jimmy Butler and Paul George are still a couple of wishlist players for me for the Suns.

Pair one of them with Cousins and Suns youth and its all gravy.

Warren has all of the ability to become elite offensively, and there is no way in hell we're getting one of those and Cousins unless all hell breaks loose for the Bulls and Pacers. More realistically we end up with somebody like Hayward and if we are lucky Cousins.

[thamadkant]

Kahwi is my favourite player and after watching him kill Warriors both side my thirst for a player like him on the Suns just grew 50% higher.

I like TJ Warren but he lacks defensive impact and elite abilities offensively.
I dont mind Tucker, good role player but his defense is still a couple of tiers below Kahwi and his offense is on another country in comparison.

Jimmy Butler and Paul George are still a couple of wishlist players for me for the Suns.

Pair one of them with Cousins and Suns youth and its all gravy.

Warren has all of the ability to become elite offensively, and there is no way in hell we're getting one of those and Cousins unless all hell breaks loose for the Bulls and Pacers. More realistically we end up with somebody like Hayward and if we are lucky Cousins.

I like Warren, he is well rounded..

But watching and seeing Kahwi develop an elite one on one offensive game is amazing. He was projected to be a hustle defensive wingman but now could isolate anyone from Durant to Lebron and score on them using jump shots or pivot moves inside. I cant see Warren doing that... not with the way the Suns use him...

[letsgosuns]

I still cannot believe Dudley is now considered a stretch four. That guy is a small forward. The only reason he can get away with playing the power forward at times is because he is such a smart player. Other than that, he has no power forward skills. He also is best served coming off the bench. I think the Suns need to put Chriss in the starting lineup immediately and bring Dudley off the bench. This should be the rotation assuming no trades are made:

Bledsoe/Ulis
Booker/Knight/Barbosa
Warren/Dudley/Bender
Chriss/Bender
Chandler/Len

I specifically left off Tucker because I have said for weeks I see no place for him on this team. Trade him or waive him it does not matter. All he does is take away minutes from players with far more talent.

[Qwigglez]

^That would be my most optimal rotation as well.

[NavLDO]

Len has been fairly disappointing. I've cut him slack for being young and I can't really blame him for getting injured, but it is time for him to step up and earn that $14million next year. Maybe he wants it bad enough to go and get it from the Suns? If not, he's still a very rich young man either way, but hopefully he'll be somebody else's back up center.

I'm guessing Watson will motivate him.

Go Suns! Get that opening victory tonight.

Are you talking 'potential-2nd-contract-per-year-money?' Because this is what I just looked up on Len:

As a 2013 first-round pick, Alex Len can sign a contract extension before October 31, 2016.
He's making 26.69 percent more than in 2015/16.
He's the 206th best-paid NBA player this year.
He is projected to be the 140th best-paid NBA player next year.
He's the 35th best-paid Center this year.
He is projected to be the 27th best-paid Center next year.

So, point being, Len get's hated on a lot on this forum, but he is what he is...and what he's paid, and right now, that's as the 35th best-paid Center in the League.

Let me ask this (not directed at you phnart); Chandler makes 2.5x as much as Len, and does so for 2 more years, and I certainly do not see 2.5x the mount of production out of Chandler that I see of Len...AND...Len can be cut loose after this year. Why is everyone worried about how good or bad Len is? Point is, he either drastically improves and earns a 2nd Contract, or he doesn't and he's no longer a concern for any of us next season.

I'm a heck of a lot more worried about paying Knight and Chandler over $25M this season; at least Len is closer to earning his paycheck than either of those two.

[dremill24]

Dude, you have to do some deductive reasoning. Of course he means his upcoming paycheck.