2017 Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion

[darealjuice]

Hmm...GS does run SSOL-style offense, they are just missing their roll man. They wish they had one. PHX wishes we had a defensive anchor like Green.

Here is an article that does a nice job of comparing the two. It's fro m a couple years back,
but it still applies.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/4/28/8508023/the-2014-2015-golden-state-warriors-are-the-ssol-phoenix-suns

They have a lot of similarities in that they shoot a lot of 3s, spread the floor, and play fast, but the way they do it is not very similar. So much of our offense during the Nash SSOl era came from quick hitter set plays, PnR. and Nash probing into the paint, while Warriors are almost entirely off ball screens, cuts to the basket, heavy ball movement, dribble handoffs, patience to get a good shot, etc.. Nash alone probably ran at least 15 PnRs a game in SSOL's prime, Harden with D'Antoni runs 11.7 a game with Houston using it over 20 times a game, and Curry only runs 6.1 a game with the entire Warriors team only using it ~11 times a game. Warriors offense in practice is closer to a spread-out, fast-pace version of the Spurs than it is to SSOL Suns despite the statistics saying they have similar efficiency.

[SideSwipe]

Hmm...GS does run SSOL-style offense, they are just missing their roll man. They wish they had one. PHX wishes we had a defensive anchor like Green.

Here is an article that does a nice job of comparing the two. It's fro m a couple years back,
but it still applies.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/4/28/8508023/the-2014-2015-golden-state-warriors-are-the-ssol-phoenix-suns

They have a lot of similarities in that they shoot a lot of 3s, spread the floor, and play fast, but the way they do it is not very similar. So much of our offense during the Nash SSOl era came from quick hitter set plays, PnR. and Nash probing into the paint, while Warriors are almost entirely off ball screens, cuts to the basket, heavy ball movement, dribble handoffs, patience to get a good shot, etc.. Nash alone probably ran at least 15 PnRs a game in SSOL's prime, Harden with D'Antoni runs 11.7 a game with Houston using it over 20 times a game, and Curry only runs 6.1 a game with the entire Warriors team only using it ~11 times a game. Warriors offense in practice is closer to a spread-out, fast-pace version of the Spurs than it is to SSOL Suns despite the statistics saying they have similar efficiency.

While the stats are spot on, it is a function of their personnel as I mentioned. SSOL is a principle to initiate fast offense. GSW doesn't have the roll man they like, but the offense is very similar. Klay is a better version of Richardson, Johnson off-man roles, Durant/Green are different facsimiles of Trix/ Stoudemire, Green is a better facsimile of WCF Diaw. GSW's signature play (transition or PNR play to Green in the middle, then shuffled to the corner 3) they do is an option play off PNR because Green isn't the finisher they need, but he is a great passer. I think the best way of describing GSW's offense is they have taken SSOL and adapted it to their personnel really well. That is the genius of Kerr/Gentry/Brown/Curry leadership and buy-in by the team.

Now if PHX could only have figured out an effective SSOL defensive scheme to match....ah what could have been.

[Christine-In-AZ]

just a thought..

1. Bledsoe to the Nuggets for #13, #49 & Jameer Nelson (filler)

2. Suns #4 & 32 for Magic #6 & 25

3. Two PHX '17 2nds & Knight to Pacers for Monta Ellis

4. Take Ntilikina at 6, Anunoby at 13 and Diallo at #25 OR Ntilikina, Diallo and Jordan Bell with picks 6-13-25.

..added defense, athleticism...some shooting, a lot of potential. Reduced contract #s- Knight's 14.5 x 3yrs >> Ellis's 11.5 x 2yrs

[Bogyo]

just a thought..

1. Bledsoe to the Nuggets for #13, #49 & Jameer Nelson (filler)

2. Suns #4 & 32 for Magic #6 & 25

3. Two PHX '17 2nds & Knight to Pacers for Monta Ellis

4. Take Ntilikina at 6, Anunoby at 13 and Diallo at #25 OR Ntilikina, Diallo and Jordan Bell with picks 6-13-25.

..added defense, athleticism...some shooting, a lot of potential. Reduced contract #s- Knight's 14.5 x 3yrs >> Ellis's 11.5 x 2yrs

1. Barf.

2. Puke

3. Nelson/Ulis/Ellis/Ntilinka...

4. I do like the 2018 top pick for us after these moves (if we don't get screwed in the lottery, but that's not possible, right?)

[asudevil]

just a thought..

1. Bledsoe to the Nuggets for #13, #49 & Jameer Nelson (filler)

2. Suns #4 & 32 for Magic #6 & 25

3. Two PHX '17 2nds & Knight to Pacers for Monta Ellis

4. Take Ntilikina at 6, Anunoby at 13 and Diallo at #25 OR Ntilikina, Diallo and Jordan Bell with picks 6-13-25.

..added defense, athleticism...some shooting, a lot of potential. Reduced contract #s- Knight's 14.5 x 3yrs >> Ellis's 11.5 x 2yrs

Value-wise:

Bledsoe>>#13
#4>>>>>>>#6
#25>#32

[Mr Puddles]

How about instead:

Bledsoe to Denver

#13, #32, & Gary Harris to Orlando

#6 to Phoenix

[NTB]

How about instead:

Bledsoe to Denver

#13, #32, & Gary Harris to Orlando

#6 to Phoenix

I don't think Denver would give Harris for Bledsoe.

[Mr Puddles]

How about instead:

Bledsoe to Denver

#13, #32, & Gary Harris to Orlando

#6 to Phoenix

I don't think Denver would give Harris for Bledsoe.

Denver has a logjam at the shooting guard position though, Will Barton instead?

[NTB]

How about instead:

Bledsoe to Denver

#13, #32, & Gary Harris to Orlando

#6 to Phoenix

I don't think Denver would give Harris for Bledsoe.

Denver has a logjam at the shooting guard position though, Will Barton instead?

I think Gary Harris is among their untouchable core players with Jokic and Murray. They'd love that trade with Barton I think but Suns shouldn't do that IMO.

[thamadkant]

Great video (narrated by Kobe) about what makes the Warriors' offense so difficult to defend. It's a quick, pretty entertaining watch, and I definitely recommend it to anyone curious to see how their offensive scheme differs from the bulk of the league.

They play an offense that gets compared to the SSOL Suns because of their fast pace and high scoring, but to me it's more of a fast-paced, modern iteration of the triangle offense. It's really beautiful to watch compared to the pick-and-roll offense that has dominated the league. Lots of post action with the intention of finding cutters/shooters instead of scoring individually, minimal 1-on-1 isolation possessions unless it comes from the offense, split screens on the perimeter between very good shooters that require a great degree of awareness and positioning on defense to avoid giving up backdoor cuts and open shoots, off-ball screens and cuts to the basketball on nearly every pass. They still get a lot of the mismatches that PnR offenses get, but in my opinion there's a lot more opportunity to score in that kind of offense than the scheme of: screen @ top of key > dribble-drive > wait for defender to cheat > pass to their man on the perimeter > shoot > rinse/repeat. Their roster is ideal for it between 3 of the best perimeter scorers in the game, Draymond and KD as playmakers in the low/mid/high-post, Zaza and McGee as constant head hunting screeners that can dive to the rim when their man cheats to cover the bigger offensive threats, and high iq veterans that contribute on both ends. I wouldn't mind seeing us shift toward that style of play, although we don't have the point guard or another outside shooter on the wing for it quite yet (I think Bender, Chriss, and Booker are decent building blocks though).

Agree 100% on the triangle analogy.

SSOL can be seen on the rockets. In SSOL it's all about the PG, the pick and roll, and fastbreak points.

I'd rather run the Warriors offense with the pieces we have then SSOL. Dragon can be our point forward.

Hmm...GS does run SSOL-style offense, they are just missing their roll man. They wish they had one. PHX wishes we had a defensive anchor like Green.

Here is an article that does a nice job of comparing the two. It's fro m a couple years back,
but it still applies.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/4/28/8508023/the-2014-2015-golden-state-warriors-are-the-ssol-phoenix-suns

Suns had Marion who is very good defensively, not as good one on one as Green, but Marion guarded 2-4 spots. Bell was also good but a tier below Thompson.


Warriors advantage is that they have 2 All-time great shooters, with another elite superstar shooter in Durant and 3-4 bench players who can guard and switch 1-3 positions any time on the court... makes them so pesky defensively when they turn the intensity on.

[ThunderBolt]

Derrick Jones Jr is young, athletic, not a great shooter and could drop in the rotation further depending on who you guys draft. This screams "Sam Presti trade". What is his value to you guys?

[MrMiyagi]

Derrick Jones Jr is young, athletic, not a great shooter and could drop in the rotation further depending on who you guys draft. This screams "Sam Presti trade". What is his value to you guys?

I like him a lot. He's a smart player, despite his deficiencies. He'll ultimately have to develop other skills if he's to stick in the league, but I think most of us will agree, he has a greater chance of sticking than Archie Goodwin had due to him knowing his role and not trying to do too much. Watson seems to have given him 1 job to accomplish this summer: shoot 3s every day. He was a pesky, engaged defender who was able to find space on offense for some lobs and put-back dunks. If he adds an improved 3 point shot, he'll probably be in our rotation. I don't think we're looking to move him, as he's on a cheap deal and seems to get along with the guys on our squad, so I can't really imagine a trade just for him. The only deal I could see him involved in is if he's a sweetener to move Brandon Knight, but I hope we won't do that as DJJr is part of the reason to move Knight in the first place.

[gaspar]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Hayward playing golf with the Suns assistant coach

[bwgood77]

Derrick Jones Jr is young, athletic, not a great shooter and could drop in the rotation further depending on who you guys draft. This screams "Sam Presti trade". What is his value to you guys?

Why does it scream Sam Presti trade? Particularly when you desperately need shooters? I believe that because he makes so little it would be someone the Suns wouldn't want to give up unless they got a good return. Maybe if they drafted Josh Jackson they would do it though because he would likely be squeezed out of the rotation.

[ThunderBolt]

Derrick Jones Jr is young, athletic, not a great shooter and could drop in the rotation further depending on who you guys draft. This screams "Sam Presti trade". What is his value to you guys?

Why does it scream Sam Presti trade? Particularly when you desperately need shooters? I believe that because he makes so little it would be someone the Suns wouldn't want to give up unless they got a good return. Maybe if they drafted Josh Jackson they would do it though because he would likely be squeezed out of the rotation.

Presti likes young athletic guys with a long wingspan that can defend and can't shoot. That's what serge Ibaka was when drafted and what he traded for with Jerami Grant.

Saying it's a Sam Presti trade doesn't mean that it's what the thunder need, it means that he's the kind of player Presti would like to acquire. If they aren't able to re-sign Roberson and don't draft a sf, I could see Presti wanting to try to acquire him.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Gambo tweeting to keep an eye on Joe Ingles in FA. I don't have anything against Ingles but man I'm not sure I like investing money in role players at this point in the suns team building. Especially with the money already tied up in Dudley, Chandler, and Knight. Those deals start to add up and can really handcuff you when trying to chase difference makers in FA or trades. IMO when you're in a rebuild you should try to mine your own role players with late draft picks and very cheap signings.

[carey]

Can't see us signing Ingles with the current roster makeup. I assume we will make a move or two this summer.

[batsmasher]

Gambo probably couldn't tell you what the current salary cap is right now, how old JIngles is or what sort of money he's looking for. Unfollowing him has been a good move on my Twitterworld

[SideSwipe]

Can't see us signing Ingles with the current roster makeup. I assume we will make a move or two this summer.

Yeah not sure Slo-mo Joe is coming our way unless it's at a discount and other fairly significant moves are involved. We will always have a leg up on IT A guys in rumors due to Watson and Memo. That's where the connections come from. There can be only one real target for the connection, though and that's Hayward.

[carey]

Gambo probably couldn't tell you what the current salary cap is right now, how old JIngles is or what sort of money he's looking for. Unfollowing him has been a good move on my Twitterworld

He's a total goof, but also has, from time to time, been completely accurate regarding Suns rumors. I'm not sure this is one.