Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

If we still were lead by Colangelo, we wouldn't be the laughing stock of the NBA.

FACT.

To be unfair in kind, Colangelo presided over 35 years of winning but not championship basketball.

How many years would you say the Warriors brass was at it? Warriors made the jump to 47 wins in Curry's fourth season, which was also Klay's second season and Dray's first season. In the shortened season that preceded that, Curry was out more than half the year, and they went 23-43.

In Durant's second year, and Westbrook's third year, OKC went 23-59. The following year, which was Harden's and Ibaka's first, they won 57 games.

The point is, great teams are often terrible right before they're great. The 04-05 Suns was basically the same team as the prior year, but with a new PG and a new coach at the helm. The other 3 players that made up the big 4 led their team into the gutter the season prior.

I've been predicting that the jump will happen next year. But I won't panic unless we still suck coming out of the gates in 2019-20.

[LukasBMW]

If we still were lead by Colangelo, we wouldn't be the laughing stock of the NBA.

FACT.

To be unfair in kind, Colangelo presided over 35 years of winning but not championship basketball.

How many years would you say the Warriors brass was at it? Warriors made the jump to 47 wins in Curry's fourth season, which was also Klay's second season and Dray's first season. In the shortened season that preceded that, Curry was out more than half the year, and they went 23-43.

In Durant's second year, and Westbrook's third year, OKC went 23-59. The following year, which was Harden's and Ibaka's first, they won 57 games.

The point is, great teams are often terrible right before they're great. The 04-05 Suns was basically the same team as the prior year, but with a new PG and a new coach at the helm. The other 3 players that made up the big 4 led their team into the gutter the season prior.

I've been predicting that the jump will happen next year. But I won't panic unless we still suck coming out of the gates in 2019-20.

Colangelo was respected by players, agents, coaches, and NBA brass. He didn't always make the right decision, but he is the one who made us a top free agent destination and a top 5 winning percentage team.

Sarver's only scuess came from inheriting the team Colangelo built. His mistakes started right away in letting Joe Johnson get away and the decision to sell off draft picks is a huge reason why we've been in the gutter for the last decade.

We went from a top 5 franchise in winning and respect to a punchline. We better hope to turn it around.

Seeing Colangelo, Westy, Barkley, and KJ at halftime the othernight brough back great memories.

[RunDogGun]

If we still were lead by Colangelo, we wouldn't be the laughing stock of the NBA.

FACT.

Well we would still be run by Colangelo if he didn’t almost bankrupt the franchise, and had to be bailed out by Sarver and his partners. That’s the actual fact.

[bwgood77]

If we still were lead by Colangelo, we wouldn't be the laughing stock of the NBA.

FACT.

To be unfair in kind, Colangelo presided over 35 years of winning but not championship basketball.

How many years would you say the Warriors brass was at it? Warriors made the jump to 47 wins in Curry's fourth season, which was also Klay's second season and Dray's first season. In the shortened season that preceded that, Curry was out more than half the year, and they went 23-43.

In Durant's second year, and Westbrook's third year, OKC went 23-59. The following year, which was Harden's and Ibaka's first, they won 57 games.

The point is, great teams are often terrible right before they're great. The 04-05 Suns was basically the same team as the prior year, but with a new PG and a new coach at the helm. The other 3 players that made up the big 4 led their team into the gutter the season prior.

I've been predicting that the jump will happen next year. But I won't panic unless we still suck coming out of the gates in 2019-20.

Colangelo made plenty of mistakes, but he almost refused to let us be bad for long. It is interesting though, that Bryan has an awful reputation and if you read the GB at all you will see they think is is the most awful thing ever in Toronto and Philly. And he would be our GM if JC was still the owner...so who knows? I think he gets a bit of a bad rap in those places though.

OKC isn't a great example imo...they made a superstar pick the summer they traded Ray Allen and had their worst season and gradually got better with each piece....from the 8 seed in Durant's 3rd year to one of the best teams in the league.

We don't have nearly skilled as players as OKC/GSW so I don't think it's fair to make comparisons.

I really wish sometimes we could combine traits...like inject JJ's confidence and willingness to drive, do a lot offensively, etc, to Bender. Inject Bender's bbiq and team defensive awareness into Chriss.

We need a major piece in the draft this year, and for some players to grow by leaps and bounds by next season. I don't know how much of that is probable/possible, but I think each of our players have some interesting skills. We really need one or both of our 3s to get to where they can shoot 37% from 3...not sure if that is even possible. I don't think you can play wings a ton of minutes if they can't shoot and be a really good team unless they are elite at something. DeRozan is an elite mid range scorer, though he is not terrible defensively and also shoots over 35% from 3 this year.

Guys like MKG and RHJ can score ok and play great defense but their teams are not very good.

I think our PFs have progressed...Bender a ton from last season, but still far from a quality starter on a playoff team, and Chriss in the last 5 games compared to previously...but I am still unsure what these guys will be. I hope Bender's confidence and aggression grows as he continues to play and that Chriss' IQ continues to develop.

It will be interesting to see how these guys and our team play down the stretch against this tough schedule. Hopefully we can be a bit more competitive than we have been in the last few games.

I think our ball movement looks very good at times lately, which I think can be good for the whole team as well....I hope they get healthy.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Derrick Jones is starting for Miami.

[TeamTragic]

4x NBA champion
4× NBA All-Star (2010–2013)
All-NBA Third Team (2012)
2× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2010, 2011)
2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2009, 2012)
3× NBA assists leader (2012, 2013, 2016)
NBA steals leader (2010)

By the way, Rondo is also a self proclaimed Connect 4 champion. Unbeatable.

Watch on YouTube

[Sunsdeuce]

If we still were lead by Colangelo, we wouldn't be the laughing stock of the NBA.

FACT.

Damn right. Suns went broke (between Jerry’s Dbacks investment and the suns) but damn he tried his damnest to put a championship team together. Jerry put his blood, sweat, tears, and ultimately his shirt off his back to win!

Can Sarver say the same thing?

[lilfishi22]

If we still were lead by Colangelo, we wouldn't be the laughing stock of the NBA.

FACT.

Damn right. Suns went broke (between Jerry’s Dbacks investment and the suns) but damn he tried his damnest to put a championship team together. Jerry put his blood, sweat, tears, and ultimately his shirt off his back to win!

Can Sarver say the same thing?

Again, not defending Sarver, but we were damn close and if it wasn't for a couple of sketchy suspensions and reffing, Sarver may have achieved something Jerry didn't in his 40yr tenure with the Suns.

[Mulhollanddrive]

So Gambo's idea to chase the 8th seed and get George Hill a week on seems not so great 7.5 games out of 8th seed.

I think sometimes he just has to fill segments but people take him literally.

[bwgood77]

If we still were lead by Colangelo, we wouldn't be the laughing stock of the NBA.

FACT.

Damn right. Suns went broke (between Jerry’s Dbacks investment and the suns) but damn he tried his damnest to put a championship team together. Jerry put his blood, sweat, tears, and ultimately his shirt off his back to win!

Can Sarver say the same thing?

Again, not defending Sarver, but we were damn close and if it wasn't for a couple of sketchy suspensions and reffing, Sarver may have achieved something Jerry didn't in his 40yr tenure with the Suns.

That entire team was basically the Colangelo's doing...other than having Diaw instead of Joe Johnson.

[bwgood77]

So Gambo's idea to chase the 8th seed and get George Hill a week on seems not so great 7.5 games out of 8th seed.

I think sometimes he just has to fill segments but people take him literally.

No, he's just dumb enough to get over excited about our team after a win or two and it's a bit more understandable because he's the last guy who would be looking at the strength or schedule we had played and have yet to play. We had just barely beaten Memphis twice, Atlanta on a big comeback, Sacramento, and Dallas. We have 4 wins against teams with winning records but I think we might have one of the worst (if not the worst) records in the league against teams with winning records (that's a guess but a fairly educated one).

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

So Gambo's idea to chase the 8th seed and get George Hill a week on seems not so great 7.5 games out of 8th seed.

I think sometimes he just has to fill segments but people take him literally.

No, he's just dumb enough to get over excited about our team after a win or two and it's a bit more understandable because he's the last guy who would be looking at the strength or schedule we had played and have yet to play. We had just barely beaten Memphis twice, Atlanta on a big comeback, Sacramento, and Dallas. We have 4 wins against teams with winning records but I think we might have one of the worst (if not the worst) records in the league against teams with winning records (that's a guess but a fairly educated one).

I don't trust the talking heads who cover more than one sport - at least, unless basketball is at least their *primary* sport. You end up saying too much, you get used to hearing yourself say things, and ultimately you get comfortable BS'ing most of the time.

[lilfishi22]

Damn right. Suns went broke (between Jerry’s Dbacks investment and the suns) but damn he tried his damnest to put a championship team together. Jerry put his blood, sweat, tears, and ultimately his shirt off his back to win!

Can Sarver say the same thing?

Again, not defending Sarver, but we were damn close and if it wasn't for a couple of sketchy suspensions and reffing, Sarver may have achieved something Jerry didn't in his 40yr tenure with the Suns.

That entire team was basically the Colangelo's doing...other than having Diaw instead of Joe Johnson.

Nash and D'Antoni were Sarver signings IIRC. You could give credit to Jerry for having Joe Johnson, Trix, young Amare on that team when he left but SSOL was arguably all Nash and D'Antoni.

Sorry, D'Antoni was under Jerry. My bad

[bwgood77]

Again, not defending Sarver, but we were damn close and if it wasn't for a couple of sketchy suspensions and reffing, Sarver may have achieved something Jerry didn't in his 40yr tenure with the Suns.

That entire team was basically the Colangelo's doing...other than having Diaw instead of Joe Johnson.

Nash and D'Antoni were Sarver signings IIRC. You could give credit to Jerry for having Joe Johnson, Trix, young Amare on that team when he left but SSOL was arguably all Nash and D'Antoni.

Nash came the summer Sarver bought the team, but I don't think he comes if Colangelo didn't set that whole thing up. He had the history with Nash and likely sold all that to Sarver. And Bryan Colangelo was still GM in that year...and my guess is, at least back then he didn't make decisions without running him against his dad (I know that sounds dumb, but in a position like NBA GM of a team your father basically founded, I'm guessing he did, and I think he probably runs big decisions by Jerry today still while working for the Sixers...too much pressure not to get opinions).

[jredsaz]

So Gambo's idea to chase the 8th seed and get George Hill a week on seems not so great 7.5 games out of 8th seed.

I think sometimes he just has to fill segments but people take him literally.

He got excited after that OKC win like a lot of us did. Warren and Chris's missing the last 3 has hurt. I figure with a healthy squad they can play at a 10-8 seed level. But it's impossible to be healthy every game.

In the end this 11 game stretch - starting with OKC and ending in HOU - is probably the most important of the season. Even with a healthy roster it would have been unlikely they finished above .500. While I would have liked to seen them go after it with Warren and Chriss on the floor the fact that they weren't allowed us to lose and couch it in a good excuse. That's tanking with out the side affects.

[jredsaz]

Again, not defending Sarver, but we were damn close and if it wasn't for a couple of sketchy suspensions and reffing, Sarver may have achieved something Jerry didn't in his 40yr tenure with the Suns.

That entire team was basically the Colangelo's doing...other than having Diaw instead of Joe Johnson.

Nash and D'Antoni were Sarver signings IIRC. You could give credit to Jerry for having Joe Johnson, Trix, young Amare on that team when he left but SSOL was arguably all Nash and D'Antoni.

Sorry, D'Antoni was under Jerry. My bad

Bryan was still the GM. The Colangelo's had the plan and Server jumped on board. The SSOL was more the Colangelo's than Sarver's. The first thing Sarver did was not extend JJ. He slowly dismantled what should have been a dynasty level run from there on after.

[thamadkant]

I think this can compete for a championship...

Anthony Davis
Paul George
Devin Booker

as your main 3....


McD... do it... everything you can to get that trio!

[thamadkant]

De'Aaron Fox is my wonder.

Kyrie Irving for me.

Andre igoudala and rondo for me.

David Robinson here!, damn moving up and only to get pick 2 that year...

[Skillmatic]

How about Capela now and not in the Offseason. DeAndre jordan wants to join the Rockets. Let us make a three Team Trade and get our Center of the future.

[NavLDO]

I know you ignore the "positionless" basketball thing and the fact that you need 8 or so rotation players playing major minutes and who starts isn't always the most important....but...

The Celtics drafted SF Jaylen Brown #3. The following year they drafted SF Jayson Tatum #3, signed SF Gordon Hayward to a max and traded for SF Marcus Morris who often starts.

They all seem to be progressing fairly well. Hayward's injured, but given you wanted an example of two high lottery picks being drafted who play the same position there is one.

Funny thing is, in 2014 they took PG Marcus Smart #6 and then the next year they took PG Terry Rozier #16 and even traded for IT the same year. They all played quite a bit. They also had combo guard Avery Bradley in there. They still had those two young rookie contract PGs when trading for all star Kyrie Irving.

That team worked out ok and all their players seem to develop fairly well.


Also, you mentioned something about Brooklyn being in a dilemma. They want to start Dinwiddie and Russell together....I posted articles and links yesterday...they say Dinwiddie being 6'6 can guard any 2s...and Russell is great and sometimes better off ball.

So, I haven't even read any response yet, to my my response this morning to this post, because I also wanted to point out a couple of items as to why I have a problem with 2 x PFs and 2 x SFs, and it has to do with, well, we are not Boston. We tried 3 combo Guards...or ...'positionless' Guards before, and it blew up in our face, and I've stated as much a couple of times. Warren has earned a starting spot. And while you and few other knowledgable Suns fans might be ok with JJ not starting, he likely won't, and it will have to do with his next contract. And the media won't and they'll consistently call him a bust for being a #4 overall pick and not a starter. He cannot 'fill the role' of a PG, and he's too small to be inside...I'm sorry, but there's 'positionless', and then there is insanity (no, I'm not calling you insane...I'm saying it waoul be insane to play him as a 'big'

I have NO aversion to 'positionless' basketball, and have mentioned on a few occasions that I've been open to Doncic coming in and fulfilling PG duties, or Booker playing the point, or whatever, so I do not thinks it's a fair comment to suggest that I 'ignore' positionless basketball, because I don't.

And when I was alluding to the Nets, I was ALSO including Lin in that conversation...that's 3 PGs that can start, and are better than any PG on our roster...or 'positionless' Combo Guard, or whatever you want to call a Guard that runs the point. I'm perfectly fine with Booker playing Combo Guard and us getting another one in here to play along side him. I've been an advocate of Warren playing the '4', and JJ playing the '2' when he can shoot. I am extremely open to 'positionless' basketball.

My point has ZERO to do with that, because we aren't DOING that. It's Bender in for Chriss, or JJ in Warren. When that changes...and I mean on a significant basis...not 2 minutes here and 2 minutes there...when that happens consistently, like 10-12 minutes a game, then tell me I'm being close minded. But right now, my comments are based off of how they are rotating them in and out and how they are playing them...nothing else.

Am I wrong? Are Chriss and Bender getting significant playing time together at the 4 and 5 or 3 and 4? Are Warren and JJ getting significant playing time playing together as the 2 and 3 or 3 and 4? If so...like I said...like consistently, every game for 10-12 minutes, then I'll gladly admit I am wrong and change my tune. Deal??

If they play enough minutes then why does it matter if they play together or not?

Because they aren't? 21MPG are not 'starter' level minutes...or, enough 'minutes' to develop like a starter, playing with other starters. Those 'young' players that are becoming 'good'--look at how many minutes they are playing, and who they are primarily playing with.

Tatum - 31MPG
Markannen - 30MPG
Mitchell - 31.5

Ball is getting the minutes, but he just, well, is very good at some things, and very bad at others.

Then you have a couple of outliers in OG and Bam.

But our guys are trending around 21 MPG; JJ is up a little ONLY because Warren has been out a couple of games.

But even if they did get the minutes, we still don't have our 'franchise' PG, or Booker running the point with another capable SG, or whatever starting 5 we are going to run.

Basically, if our 'goal' is 'positionless' basketball, as BW is ridiculing me for not being able to comprehend, then the Suns would be playing 'positionless' basketball. But oddly, they are not. When we start:

Booker / JJ / Warren / Bender / Chriss

and they get, what, 28? 30? Minutes per game, and then I complain about them not getting enough minutes developing, etc., etc., then sure, go ahead and ridicule by saying "I know you like to ignore blah, blah, blah 'positionless' blah, blah..."

But that is NOT what is going on.

Chriss plays, Chriss gets taken out. Bender gets put in, Bender gets taken out, Chriss gets put in, etc. etc.

Warren plays, Warren gets taken out. JJ gets put in, JJ gets taken out, Warren gets put in, etc., etc.

Exactly like that? No, but pretty close, yeah?

So, if I'm going to get lectured on 'positionless' basketball, when the Suns don't employ that strategy...at least as far as I have seen, well, that argument does not hold much water, IMO.