Igor fired - New Coaching Search Discussion

[sunsbg]

It seems to me that you compare future value of Suns players with present value of SA and expect that Kokoskov has results with future value of Suns players.

It looks ti me that advanced stats and results are totally correlated in this case.

I can ask you similar question, do you really believe that Popovich would have many more wins with the Suns?

Definitely, doubling the wins number is not out of the question. Popovich is levels above Kokoskov, just not sure which advanced stats to use to prove it.

[Bob8]

It seems to me that you compare future value of Suns players with present value of SA and expect that Kokoskov has results with future value of Suns players.

It looks ti me that advanced stats and results are totally correlated in this case.

I can ask you similar question, do you really believe that Popovich would have many more wins with the Suns?

Definitely, doubling the wins number is not out of the question. Popovich is levels above Kokoskov, just not sure which advanced stats to use to prove it.

There is no advanced stats, but we can look how incredibly successful were previous Suns coaches.

When a team has 11 wins, players are for sure below average.

[sunsbg]

It seems to me that you compare future value of Suns players with present value of SA and expect that Kokoskov has results with future value of Suns players.

It looks ti me that advanced stats and results are totally correlated in this case.

I can ask you similar question, do you really believe that Popovich would have many more wins with the Suns?

Definitely, doubling the wins number is not out of the question. Popovich is levels above Kokoskov, just not sure which advanced stats to use to prove it.

There is no advanced stats, but we can look how incredibly successful were previous Suns coaches.

When a team has 11 wins, players are for sure below average.

Exactly, it's not even clear if Igor is better than the bad/mediocre coaches, which the Suns fired. By the record he looks worse. He needs to prove something before putting his name in the same sentence with Popovich. I'm sure the later will not look clueless how to draw a play for Ayton having coached Duncan before. Also the respect from the players for both of them is incomparable.

[phnart]

Koko has shown zip, nada, nothing, etc...so he will definitely coach at least the first three games next season.

[sunsbg]

Koko has shown zip, nada, nothing, etc...so he will definitely coach at least the first three games next season.

He has shown that on his team the Nr1 pick can have the same number of shots as the great Tyler Johnson and twice less than the great Josh Jackson. Some will say it's because of Ayton's lack of aggression, for me it's coaching.

[Bob8]

Definitely, doubling the wins number is not out of the question. Popovich is levels above Kokoskov, just not sure which advanced stats to use to prove it.

There is no advanced stats, but we can look how incredibly successful were previous Suns coaches.

When a team has 11 wins, players are for sure below average.

Exactly, it's not even clear if Igor is better than the bad/mediocre coaches, which the Suns fired. By the record he looks worse. He needs to prove something before putting his name in the same sentence with Popovich. I'm sure the later will not look clueless how to draw a play for Ayton having coached Duncan before. Also the respect from the players for both of them is incomparable.

I agree that Kokoskov and Pop are incomparable. Are you sure that Ayton and Duncan are comparable? How Pop’s first season looked? How many teams in NBA are build around C? How many Cs, who’re bad defenders are stars in Nba?

[sunsbg]

There is no advanced stats, but we can look how incredibly successful were previous Suns coaches.

When a team has 11 wins, players are for sure below average.

Exactly, it's not even clear if Igor is better than the bad/mediocre coaches, which the Suns fired. By the record he looks worse. He needs to prove something before putting his name in the same sentence with Popovich. I'm sure the later will not look clueless how to draw a play for Ayton having coached Duncan before. Also the respect from the players for both of them is incomparable.

I agree that Kokoskov and Pop are incomparable. Are you sure that Ayton and Duncan are comparable? How Pop’s first season looked? How many teams in NBA are build around C? How many Cs, who’re bad defenders are stars in Nba?

Ayton is Nr1 pick, doesn't need to be a hall of famer to draw a few plays for him. If you are saying Igor can't coach a team around a good C, than we basically agree and he needs to go

Please, get off Deandre's back, they called you in the GB rookie thread, so pay a little attention to Trae too

[phnart]

Koko has shown zip, nada, nothing, etc...so he will definitely coach at least the first three games next season.

He has shown that on his team the Nr1 pick can have the same number of shots as the great Tyler Johnson and twice less than the great Josh Jackson. Some will say it's because of Ayton's lack of aggression, for me it's coaching.

Truth

[Bob8]

Exactly, it's not even clear if Igor is better than the bad/mediocre coaches, which the Suns fired. By the record he looks worse. He needs to prove something before putting his name in the same sentence with Popovich. I'm sure the later will not look clueless how to draw a play for Ayton having coached Duncan before. Also the respect from the players for both of them is incomparable.

I agree that Kokoskov and Pop are incomparable. Are you sure that Ayton and Duncan are comparable? How Pop’s first season looked? How many teams in NBA are build around C? How many Cs, who’re bad defenders are stars in Nba?

Ayton is Nr1 pick, doesn't need to be a hall of famer to draw a few plays for him. If you are saying Igor can't coach a team around a good C, than we basically agree and he needs to go

Please, get off Deandre's back, they called you in the GB rookie thread, so pay a little attention to Trae too

I see some disproportions here, no believe and all blame on rookie coach. Sooner or later people will see that changing coach every year cannot be a solution.
Trae is having great year and he is even better example than Luka, how you in today’s Nba don’t need athletic body to be good player. Being bigger is better of course, if you can create for yourself and others.

[bigfoot]

Koko has shown zip, nada, nothing, etc...so he will definitely coach at least the first three games next season.

He has shown that on his team the Nr1 pick can have the same number of shots as the great Tyler Johnson and twice less than the great Josh Jackson. Some will say it's because of Ayton's lack of aggression, for me it's coaching.

Truth

We drafted "The Big Passive" ... Ayton is tissue soft ... poor at getting any decent post position ... stands on his toes for rebounds instead of jumping ... afraid to commit a foul ... can't protect the rim

Somehow you two can't see this and say oh our problems would be solved if the coach would just draw up more plays for a big pussy.

[sunsbg]

He has shown that on his team the Nr1 pick can have the same number of shots as the great Tyler Johnson and twice less than the great Josh Jackson. Some will say it's because of Ayton's lack of aggression, for me it's coaching.

Truth

We drafted "The Big Passive" ... Ayton is tissue soft ... poor at getting any decent post position ... stands on his toes for rebounds instead of jumping ... afraid to commit a foul ... can't protect the rim

Somehow you two can't see this and say oh our problems would be solved if the coach would just draw up more plays for a big pussy.

He's 20, needs coaching, which includes asking him to put more effort. But it looks like all he's been asked is to buy into a system he doesn't fit into. Doesn't look like a pussy in this one :

Watch on YouTube

Now get a coach that can get this out of him more often than not.

[sunsbg]

I agree that Kokoskov and Pop are incomparable. Are you sure that Ayton and Duncan are comparable? How Pop’s first season looked? How many teams in NBA are build around C? How many Cs, who’re bad defenders are stars in Nba?

Ayton is Nr1 pick, doesn't need to be a hall of famer to draw a few plays for him. If you are saying Igor can't coach a team around a good C, than we basically agree and he needs to go

Please, get off Deandre's back, they called you in the GB rookie thread, so pay a little attention to Trae too

I see some disproportions here, no believe and all blame on rookie coach. Sooner or later people will see that changing coach every year cannot be a solution.
Trae is having great year and he is even better example than Luka, how you in today’s Nba don’t need athletic body to be good player. Being bigger is better of course, if you can create for yourself and others.

And how exactly are we going to know if Ayton can create for others if not feeding him and not used to his strengths ? Or are you saying a C can't create for others in general ? Or only in today's NBA ? If the later and now NBA is strictly a wings league I'm just going to stop watching. I didn't watch this acrobatics show they keep calling all star game, I will easily stop watching regular season games if this is the future.

[Bob8]

Ayton is Nr1 pick, doesn't need to be a hall of famer to draw a few plays for him. If you are saying Igor can't coach a team around a good C, than we basically agree and he needs to go

Please, get off Deandre's back, they called you in the GB rookie thread, so pay a little attention to Trae too

I see some disproportions here, no believe and all blame on rookie coach. Sooner or later people will see that changing coach every year cannot be a solution.
Trae is having great year and he is even better example than Luka, how you in today’s Nba don’t need athletic body to be good player. Being bigger is better of course, if you can create for yourself and others.

And how exactly are we going to know if Ayton can create for others if not feeding him and not used to his strengths ? Or are you saying a C can't create for others in general ? Or only in today's NBA ? If the later and now NBA is strictly a wings league I'm just going to stop watching. I didn't watch this acrobatics show they keep calling all star game, I will easily stop watching regular season games if this is the future.

It’s kinda obvious for me, but I believe we should stop here.

I really hope you will beat Hawks today. I know that you don’t believe, but because of Kokoskov, I almost always cheer for the Suns.

[sunsbg]

I see some disproportions here, no believe and all blame on rookie coach. Sooner or later people will see that changing coach every year cannot be a solution.
Trae is having great year and he is even better example than Luka, how you in today’s Nba don’t need athletic body to be good player. Being bigger is better of course, if you can create for yourself and others.

And how exactly are we going to know if Ayton can create for others if not feeding him and not used to his strengths ? Or are you saying a C can't create for others in general ? Or only in today's NBA ? If the later and now NBA is strictly a wings league I'm just going to stop watching. I didn't watch this acrobatics show they keep calling all star game, I will easily stop watching regular season games if this is the future.

It’s kinda obvious for me, but I believe we should stop here.

I really hope you will beat Hawks today. I know that you don’t believe, but because of Kokoskov, I almost always cheer for the Suns.

Deal, you are still my Nr1 RealGM buddy by the way

[bwgood77]

Let's compare Suns vs Spurs

Aldridge vs Ayton (comparing DA to LA looks spot on to me at this point)
Gay vs Warren
Derozan vs Booker
Forbes vs Bridges
White vs Melton

Mills vs Okobo
Belinelli vs JJ
Gasol vs Oubre
Bertans vs Bender (always wondered will Bender(15 3PFG% this season) become as good as someone like Bonner/Bertans, what a waste of a #4 pick)
Poeltl vs Holmes

Talent-wise I don't see a big difference.

Spurs (experience, good coaching, good outside shooting) = 33wins - playoffs
Suns (lack of experience, questionable coaching, inconsistent outside shooting) = 11wins - last in the standings

Experience will come with time.
Bringing a few sharp shooters off the bench should not be that hard to do.
Looks like the big question is the coaching. IMO this team is underachieving, not a good sign for keeping Igor going forward.

Young teams underachieve, like the Nets did a couple years ago, the Sixers a few years ago, particulary with rookie coaches. Most of the young coaches in their first jobs are the best ones now.

Our roster does not have distributors or rebounders or any two way players outside of Bridges.

Giving these guys another new coach will not help them...the ones who have been here a 2-3 or 4 years have had enough and the rookies don't need to start over again with their third coach in 3 years (counting their college/int'l coach the prior year).

[bwgood77]

The guy is emotionless! How is that possible leading a historically bad team?

I'm sure he has yelled at them but being a bunch of 18, 19, and 20 year olds the tears start falling. Boys playing against men.

It is not an excuse the age of the roster. We are young NOW because we were TERRIBLE since the beginning of the season. And Kokoskov deserves some blame. He is too soft IMO.

Where are Canaan, Ariza, Ryan Anderson and Chandler? Yeah, they have been traded/waived because without them we have a nice excuse for other teams and fans and that excuse is that we are too young and we need time to get better. I don't buy it. MEH.

I don't understand why you think young teams win games. They never do. Ever. KD and Green with vets won 20. They added Westbrook. KD, Jeff Green, and Westbrook won 23. Two of these guys are future MVPs. Scott Brooks could have been fired, but he ended up leading them to the finals. You can go through lots of teams.

Being young can be a reason, and I think you know those vets were worthless and hurting us.

[sunsbg]

Let's compare Suns vs Spurs

Aldridge vs Ayton (comparing DA to LA looks spot on to me at this point)
Gay vs Warren
Derozan vs Booker
Forbes vs Bridges
White vs Melton

Mills vs Okobo
Belinelli vs JJ
Gasol vs Oubre
Bertans vs Bender (always wondered will Bender(15 3PFG% this season) become as good as someone like Bonner/Bertans, what a waste of a #4 pick)
Poeltl vs Holmes

Talent-wise I don't see a big difference.

Spurs (experience, good coaching, good outside shooting) = 33wins - playoffs
Suns (lack of experience, questionable coaching, inconsistent outside shooting) = 11wins - last in the standings

Experience will come with time.
Bringing a few sharp shooters off the bench should not be that hard to do.
Looks like the big question is the coaching. IMO this team is underachieving, not a good sign for keeping Igor going forward.

Young teams underachieve, like the Nets did a couple years ago, the Sixers a few years ago, particulary with rookie coaches. Most of the young coaches in their first jobs are the best ones now.

Our roster does not have distributors or rebounders or any two way players outside of Bridges.

Giving these guys another new coach will not help them...the ones who have been here a 2-3 or 4 years have had enough and the rookies don't need to start over again with their third coach in 3 years (counting their college/int'l coach the prior year).

Well, I at least expected the games to be watchable this season and there were too many ugly ones.

Not sure how much experience the other young coaches had, but Igor has 18 seasons in NBA in addition to the HC jobs in EU, so not exactly a rookie on the professional level. What I fear is that his system is highly euro style, which is quite different than NBA style of play. The adjustments he made doesn't seem to work with more than half the season gone.

Reading the quotes on the other thread it looks like Ayton and Igor already hate each other. Also talking about continuity they could have just kept Triano, who I read was praised by Chandler that he not only tells you what to do, but also how to get it done. The quotes from Kokoskov are very cryptic :

“On the flipside, players play the game,” Kokoskov continued. “You’ve got to demand. You’ve got to show some will and some energy and demand to be involved. You can call a play, but the play doesn’t mean it’s necessarily for you. You trigger the problem and you don’t know who is going to shoot the ball. How the play is going to be executed.”

I hope he's not saying his C should be calling the plays. All this in addition to previous quotes about unclear sacrifices he's demanding from the players.

[Saberestar]

I'm sure he has yelled at them but being a bunch of 18, 19, and 20 year olds the tears start falling. Boys playing against men.

It is not an excuse the age of the roster. We are young NOW because we were TERRIBLE since the beginning of the season. And Kokoskov deserves some blame. He is too soft IMO.

Where are Canaan, Ariza, Ryan Anderson and Chandler? Yeah, they have been traded/waived because without them we have a nice excuse for other teams and fans and that excuse is that we are too young and we need time to get better. I don't buy it. MEH.

I don't understand why you think young teams win games. They never do. Ever. KD and Green with vets won 20. They added Westbrook. KD, Jeff Green, and Westbrook won 23. Two of these guys are future MVPs. Scott Brooks could have been fired, but he ended up leading them to the finals. You can go through lots of teams.

Being young can be a reason, and I think you know those vets were worthless and hurting us.

I do not think that.

What I want to say it that is false that we are not winning because we are too young. We are not winning because we are terrible at that thing named basketball.

We are losing badly because we were really bad since the start of the season, and at the beginning of the season our roster was not very young.

The original idea was to play Ariza around 35 mpg, Ryan Anderson around 28 mpg, Canaan around 25 mpg and Chandler around 18 mpg.

All those players were a big fail, and we were not winning with them on the rotation.

AFTER knowing that we were pretty bad and the season was probably a lost season we traded/waived all those veterans....THEN we are a really young team who now has the excuse of being too young and we need to be patient and bla, bla, bla.

Great excuse for everyone involved.

[bwgood77]

It is not an excuse the age of the roster. We are young NOW because we were TERRIBLE since the beginning of the season. And Kokoskov deserves some blame. He is too soft IMO.

Where are Canaan, Ariza, Ryan Anderson and Chandler? Yeah, they have been traded/waived because without them we have a nice excuse for other teams and fans and that excuse is that we are too young and we need time to get better. I don't buy it. MEH.

I don't understand why you think young teams win games. They never do. Ever. KD and Green with vets won 20. They added Westbrook. KD, Jeff Green, and Westbrook won 23. Two of these guys are future MVPs. Scott Brooks could have been fired, but he ended up leading them to the finals. You can go through lots of teams.

Being young can be a reason, and I think you know those vets were worthless and hurting us.

I do not think that.

What I want to say it that is false that we are not winning because we are too young. We are not winning because we are terrible at that thing named basketball.

We are losing badly because we were really bad since the start of the season, and at the beginning of the season our roster was not very young.

The original idea was to play Ariza around 35 mpg, Ryan Anderson around 28 mpg, Canaan around 25 mpg and Chandler around 18 mpg.

All those players were a big fail, and we were not winning with them on the rotation.

AFTER knowing that we were pretty bad and the season was probably a lost season we traded/waived all those veterans....THEN we are a really young team who now has the excuse of being too young and we need to be patient and bla, bla, bla.

Great excuse for everyone involved.

Anderson stunk. He was done. Canaan is G league level. I had a Minnesota insider mention to me after watching Canaan play a game with them where their PGs were injured and he talked about how awful he was and couldn't believe we were starting him to start the season.

Ariza hated it and was checked out....same with Chandler. I get the sense these guys don't like playing with Book. We have no two was players other than Bridges, and maybe Holmes, but this is a rookie and a backup. Our oldest starter was 22 or 23 for much of the year.

[bwgood77]

If we hire a new coach, I'd look at this guy, who has been under Kenny Atkinson with the Nets the last 3 years. Also was a coach in Cleveland before that while James Jones was there, and was under Pop in San Antonio from 2009-13. Went to University of Arizona and was an undergraduate assistant under Lute Olson. Also played for Arizona I believe.

Bret Brielmaier begins his first season (2016-17) in Brooklyn after spending the past three seasons as an assistant coach with the Cleveland Cavaliers. A native of Mankato, Minn., Brielmaier also spent four seasons with the San Antonio Spurs (2009-13), beginning his career as a player development assistant before becoming the team’s video coordinator for his final three seasons in San Antonio. Brielmaier played collegiately at the University of Arizona and began his coaching career as an undergraduate assistant coach under Hall of Fame head coach Lute Olsen during the 2008-09 season.

https://www.nba.com/nets/front-office/bret-brielmaier