2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes

[jredsaz]

I'd still be mad about it. Truth is t would have been damn near impossible for this team to be as bad as last year. Simply adding vets and our young guy getting older accomplished that.

I'll credit Jones for signing Rubio though how he ages will determine if that ends up a plus or minus. Kaminsky has been terrible. Jerome has been terrible. We're still missing competent backup guards and have a weird mix of centers and guards. Zach Lowe said it best at the time--we'll win more next year, but that's not really the point of why people are mad about this. We could have been better set up to win in the long run than we are today if we managed Warren, Jackson, and that entire debacle correctly.

I agree his moves were somewhat ham handed and he didn't manage value well but moving on from Warren and Jackson was inevitable. That boat sailed with the previous regime. The coaching turnover, lack of investment in development, lack of structure, tanking year after year lost Warren and Jackson. Still shocked Booker did what he did in that situation. His level of maturity mixed with work ethic is incredible.

Kaminsky missed and so did Jerome. But Saric and Baynes were quality additions. Cam looks like a core piece who I would rather have than either Warren or Jackson. I don't think he is selected unless they move Warren at the draft and have decided on Jacksons future.

Jones set out to do three things. Change the culture, add shooting around Ayton and Booker, and give them a legit point guard. He accomplished all of those things and still has all his first round picks and cap flexibility moving forward. Perfect? No. But it was effective.

I don't agree that we would be set up better for the future had we kept Warren and Jackson. I think the culture ruined them for the franchise.

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My guess is if Johnson wasn't elected, the Suns take Brandon Clarke. I would MUCH rather have Warren and Clarke than Johnson and really any non-Booker, Ayton, or Mikal combo. Also, if the Grizzlies liked Jackson and Melton, which they presumably do, then why couldn't we have traded back in at 21 for Clarke, who was just 3 picks ahead of Jerome?

Brandon Clarke had huge questions about his shot. I loved him in the draft but i highly doubt Jones was going to ever take him. I literally selected "the best shooter in the draft". Jerome shot .392 from three during his career at UVA. I have no idea what was or was not on the table for Jones. I don't know what deals he was pushing for but I can guarantee you it involved adding shooting.

The best fit next to Ayton, Booker, and Bridges may very well end up being Cam even if Warren and Clarke have better careers.

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[jredsaz]

Talking about the playoffs for next year. Lets say we make the 8 seed. Who do you think falls out of the top 7? I think the most obvious candidate, outside of whoever gets the 8 seed, would be OKC, IF they blow it up. But then you have GS, who, if healthy, will certainly be in the playoffs. They will have a top 5 pick along with Curry, Klay and Draymond...and Wiggins may improve. Then of course Memphis, Portland and New Orleans will likely be better. Even if we get to 40 wins or a few more, it's still going to be very tough. But knowing we can hang with anyone if healthy, is big. Just need that depth.

Memphis strikes people as a regression candidate. Lowe discussed it in his last pod. Jazz look like they hate each other. Where do the Lakers end up if they lose LeBron for significant time? Suns need to add a couple depth pieces like you said and they will be right in the mix. Think a lot comes down to health frankly.

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[WeekapaugGroove]

Talking about the playoffs for next year. Lets say we make the 8 seed. Who do you think falls out of the top 7? I think the most obvious candidate, outside of whoever gets the 8 seed, would be OKC, IF they blow it up. But then you have GS, who, if healthy, will certainly be in the playoffs. They will have a top 5 pick along with Curry, Klay and Draymond...and Wiggins may improve. Then of course Memphis, Portland and New Orleans will likely be better. Even if we get to 40 wins or a few more, it's still going to be very tough. But knowing we can hang with anyone if healthy, is big. Just need that depth.

Whomever gets riddled with injuries, seems to bite at least one team a year.

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[nevetsov]

If the starters continue to put up numbers with Oubre out, I'd love to flip him for some bench depth across the SG-SF positions. I think Payne, Saric and Baynes bring enough at the other spots as backups/ spot starters.

I'd love to flip him for Caris LeVert (6'6 SG-SF) but I doubt Brooklyn bites. We may have more luck in a s&t with them for Joe Harris, given if he goes elsewhere he'll likely be bound by the MLE.

If we could do Oubre and Okobo (filler) for Harris ($12m per s&t) and Kurocs I think that improves both teams:

Irving, Dinwiddie, Okobo
LeVert, Temple
Oubre, Luwawu, Musa
Durant, Prince
Jordan, Allen, Claxton

Rubio, Payne, Carter
Booker, [Harris/ #10], Jerome
Bridges, [Harris/ #10]
Johnson, Saric, Kurocs
Ayton, Baynes, [Kaminsky/ Diallo]

[Christine-In-AZ]

Talking about the playoffs for next year. Lets say we make the 8 seed. Who do you think falls out of the top 7? I think the most obvious candidate, outside of whoever gets the 8 seed, would be OKC, IF they blow it up. But then you have GS, who, if healthy, will certainly be in the playoffs. They will have a top 5 pick along with Curry, Klay and Draymond...and Wiggins may improve. Then of course Memphis, Portland and New Orleans will likely be better. Even if we get to 40 wins or a few more, it's still going to be very tough. But knowing we can hang with anyone if healthy, is big. Just need that depth.

Booker still has some room for improvement ...namely his handle. It's his weak spot...rather sketchy IMO. If he moves his game up just another half a peg notch and then Ayton, Oubre and Bridges each push their "both ends" game up to the potential they all possess? The Suns could be good. No not Laker/Clipper/Rocket/Nuggets good, but I can see them in that second playoff tier, should the talent potential be realized. If it doesn't, we're probably looking at a Booker sown exit plan unfurling, come late in the next season. That might not be the worst thing, depending how it's played by this FO. So far I'm not so impressed by Jones and co's where-with-all. Major disagreements with how the whole 2019 offseason was played by them. "ugly" in a word from my perspective.

[AtheJ415]

I'm honestly starting to switch to preferring Vassell as our pick. He's just the guy who I am most confident of being a very good player.
I see him as the safest pick outside of Weisman (who we wouldn't consider anyway due to Ayton). His D is outstanding and his size and athleticism would make us a potential defensive juggernaut with Mikal and if Ayton continues to make strides. We'd have to address PF and PG in the offseason still but Point Book can help some of the PG minutes. Could move Oubre for a PG or picks and make a big offer for Wood.

Rubio / Booker / (a competent vet)
Booker / Vassell
Bridges / Vassell / Cam
Wood / Cam / Bridges
Ayton / Defensive big

has a lot of versatility and shooting.

[bwgood77]

Talking about the playoffs for next year. Lets say we make the 8 seed. Who do you think falls out of the top 7? I think the most obvious candidate, outside of whoever gets the 8 seed, would be OKC, IF they blow it up. But then you have GS, who, if healthy, will certainly be in the playoffs. They will have a top 5 pick along with Curry, Klay and Draymond...and Wiggins may improve. Then of course Memphis, Portland and New Orleans will likely be better. Even if we get to 40 wins or a few more, it's still going to be very tough. But knowing we can hang with anyone if healthy, is big. Just need that depth.

Whomever gets riddled with injuries, seems to bite at least one team a year.

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Yeah, maybe, OKC seems like a team that could happen too, but it happened to 3 this past year with Portland, GS and New Orleans. LeBron is never really injured until last year. Many of the playoff teams could withstand one as well.

Of course not good to have to rely on that, but I guess it's possible a couple teams get hit bad again. We had our troubles too...and with our lack of depth it hurts us worse.

[bwgood77]

If the starters continue to put up numbers with Oubre out, I'd love to flip him for some bench depth across the SG-SF positions. I think Payne, Saric and Baynes bring enough at the other spots as backups/ spot starters.

I'd love to flip him for Caris LeVert (6'6 SG-SF) but I doubt Brooklyn bites. We may have more luck in a s&t with them for Joe Harris, given if he goes elsewhere he'll likely be bound by the MLE.

If we could do Oubre and Okobo (filler) for Harris ($12m per s&t) and Kurocs I think that improves both teams:

Irving, Dinwiddie, Okobo
LeVert, Temple
Oubre, Luwawu, Musa
Durant, Prince
Jordan, Allen, Claxton

Rubio, Payne, Carter
Booker, [Harris/ #10], Jerome
Bridges, [Harris/ #10]
Johnson, Saric, Kurocs
Ayton, Baynes, [Kaminsky/ Diallo]

LeVert would be great...and they don't seem high on him (at least Irving doesn't)...he also is great with the ball in his hands, and being a playmaker, so would help when Rubio/Booker sit in that respect, but Harris would be nice too.

People keep mentioning Okobo trade but we have a team option on him I imagine we decline unless we could trade him before that...or we exercise it to keep or trade him.

[bwgood77]

I agree his moves were somewhat ham handed and he didn't manage value well but moving on from Warren and Jackson was inevitable. That boat sailed with the previous regime. The coaching turnover, lack of investment in development, lack of structure, tanking year after year lost Warren and Jackson. Still shocked Booker did what he did in that situation. His level of maturity mixed with work ethic is incredible.

Kaminsky missed and so did Jerome. But Saric and Baynes were quality additions. Cam looks like a core piece who I would rather have than either Warren or Jackson. I don't think he is selected unless they move Warren at the draft and have decided on Jacksons future.

Jones set out to do three things. Change the culture, add shooting around Ayton and Booker, and give them a legit point guard. He accomplished all of those things and still has all his first round picks and cap flexibility moving forward. Perfect? No. But it was effective.

I don't agree that we would be set up better for the future had we kept Warren and Jackson. I think the culture ruined them for the franchise.

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My guess is if Johnson wasn't elected, the Suns take Brandon Clarke. I would MUCH rather have Warren and Clarke than Johnson and really any non-Booker, Ayton, or Mikal combo. Also, if the Grizzlies liked Jackson and Melton, which they presumably do, then why couldn't we have traded back in at 21 for Clarke, who was just 3 picks ahead of Jerome?

Brandon Clarke had huge questions about his shot. I loved him in the draft but i highly doubt Jones was going to ever take him. I literally selected "the best shooter in the draft". Jerome shot .392 from three during his career at UVA. I have no idea what was or was not on the table for Jones. I don't know what deals he was pushing for but I can guarantee you it involved adding shooting.

The best fit next to Ayton, Booker, and Bridges may very well end up being Cam even if Warren and Clarke have better careers.

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They looked at Clarke but probably were worried about his shot. I really like Cam so am fine with it but Clarke is an enormous difference maker on the floor and has shot the 3 really well himself. Cam is the better fit with Ayton offensively if you want to spread the floor though....Clarke would be defensively...and his very efficient on offense too with over a 67% TS%...would be best on our team defensively (along with Bridges) and with efficiency on offense...we knew the efficiency was there, but not the 3 ball..where he shoots over 38%.

But happy with Cam...would be happy either way.

[bwgood77]

Isaac just blew out his knee again. Oubre for Gordon trade idea probably put to bed.

That does hurt that possibility but they still have Aminu for 2 more years and he could start...and they will have their draft pick Chuma Okeke coming back from ACL injury himself....he tore it in the ACL tourney last year and they still drafted him so he will have had a year and a half to recover. Oubre could play some PF too.

They might like more of small ball around Vucevic or Bamba too.

I wonder if Detroit would be interested in an Oubre for Kennard swap...they will have cap space to absorb him..they only have like $71million in cap use and none of their bird rights are worth keeping really except Wood, who has a very small hold. They need a SF...but I guess that depends on how they view Sekou Doumboya...he is listed as a SF but can play PF....of course they have Griffin too.

[bwgood77]

I'm honestly starting to switch to preferring Vassell as our pick. He's just the guy who I am most confident of being a very good player.
I see him as the safest pick outside of Weisman (who we wouldn't consider anyway due to Ayton). His D is outstanding and his size and athleticism would make us a potential defensive juggernaut with Mikal and if Ayton continues to make strides. We'd have to address PF and PG in the offseason still but Point Book can help some of the PG minutes. Could move Oubre for a PG or picks and make a big offer for Wood.

Rubio / Booker / (a competent vet)
Booker / Vassell
Bridges / Vassell / Cam
Wood / Cam / Bridges
Ayton / Defensive big

has a lot of versatility and shooting.

I like Vassell, if he lasts to our pick, and don't think Toppin or Avdija will be there barring a jump...but would prefer Vassell easily if he's there with our pick over who else would likely be there.

If we jump though, I don't think I'd take him unless the two PFs go ahead of us...like 2 and 3 if we land 4. But would be happy with Vassell.

[RedIndian]

So does our lottery standing get changed depending on the bubble results, or are they set from before? If we continue winning, we might drop to #12 or #13 from #10.

I doubt somebody like any of the prospects we like (Hayes, Haliburton, Vassell or even someone like Cole lasts till #12 or #13).

I wonder how people feel about trading our pick to the Raptors for Terence Davis + #28. Davis would be a really nice get, both immediately from the bench, and also for the future post Rubio.

[bwgood77]

So does our lottery standing get changed depending on the bubble results, or are they set from before? If we continue winning, we might drop to #12 or #13 from #10.

I doubt somebody like any of the prospects we like (Hayes, Haliburton, Vassell or even someone like Cole lasts till #12 or #13).

I wonder how people feel about trading our pick to the Raptors for Terence Davis + #28. Davis would be a really nice get, both immediately from the bench, and also for the future post Rubio.

I researched this quite a bit. There is conflicting information, but I THINK we are slated at 10th for lotto odds based on standings at March 11th and only non lotto teams can change.

Doesn't necessarily seem right if that's the case, but it works well for us.

[BobbieL]

I understand its only two games in ORlando - but maybe the best idea for the offseason plans is bring back Saric, bring back Baynes (one year deals), keep Oubre, get your draft pick and MLE and keep as much flexibility for the 2021 offseason.

Granted, the back up guard situation still needs to be addressed. Can the team send Jerome overseas for ayear to get him some play?

[WeekapaugGroove]

Talking about the playoffs for next year. Lets say we make the 8 seed. Who do you think falls out of the top 7? I think the most obvious candidate, outside of whoever gets the 8 seed, would be OKC, IF they blow it up. But then you have GS, who, if healthy, will certainly be in the playoffs. They will have a top 5 pick along with Curry, Klay and Draymond...and Wiggins may improve. Then of course Memphis, Portland and New Orleans will likely be better. Even if we get to 40 wins or a few more, it's still going to be very tough. But knowing we can hang with anyone if healthy, is big. Just need that depth.

Whomever gets riddled with injuries, seems to bite at least one team a year.

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Yeah, maybe, OKC seems like a team that could happen too, but it happened to 3 this past year with Portland, GS and New Orleans. LeBron is never really injured until last year. Many of the playoff teams could withstand one as well.

Of course not good to have to rely on that, but I guess it's possible a couple teams get hit bad again. We had our troubles too...and with our lack of depth it hurts us worse.

I view the west as it's always going to be tough because it has a bunch of good franchises so ultimately you just need to worry about yourself being good and if you can get to like 45 wins you should get in because injuries and the west canibilizing itself. Now we've seen a 48 win suns team not make it so I guess 50 is probably the safest number. Basically be good and the rest will take care of itself.

Now two teams that could go down because of off-season moves are Utah and OKC. If OKC gets smoked in the 1st round I could see them move Paul and actually rebuild. Utah has some interesting behind the scenes stuff and the gobert and Mitchell riff seems real plus Conley sure looks like he might be hitting that little PG late stage cliff that can happen.

Side note on the draft, you're right that the suns are locked into that 10 spot unless they make the playoffs in Orlando then they drop out of the lotto. Weird they did it that way but that is the case.

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[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Whomever gets riddled with injuries, seems to bite at least one team a year.

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Yeah, maybe, OKC seems like a team that could happen too, but it happened to 3 this past year with Portland, GS and New Orleans. LeBron is never really injured until last year. Many of the playoff teams could withstand one as well.

Of course not good to have to rely on that, but I guess it's possible a couple teams get hit bad again. We had our troubles too...and with our lack of depth it hurts us worse.

I view the west as it's always going to be tough because it has a bunch of good franchises so ultimately you just need to worry about yourself being good and if you can get to like 45 wins you should get in because injuries and the west canibilizing itself. Now we've seen a 48 win suns team not make it so I guess 50 is probably the safest number. Basically be good and the rest will take care of itself.

Now two teams that could go down because of off-season moves are Utah and OKC. If OKC gets smoked in the 1st round I could see them move Paul and actually rebuild. Utah has some interesting behind the scenes stuff and the gobert and Mitchell riff seems real plus Conley sure looks like he might be hitting that little PG late stage cliff that can happen.

Side note on the draft, you're right that the suns are locked into that 10 spot unless they make the playoffs in Orlando then they drop out of the lotto. Weird they did it that way but that is the case.

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Conley has looked like his old self in the bubble - not just against us. The Jazz have really missed Bogdonavic.

[bwgood77]

Whomever gets riddled with injuries, seems to bite at least one team a year.

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Yeah, maybe, OKC seems like a team that could happen too, but it happened to 3 this past year with Portland, GS and New Orleans. LeBron is never really injured until last year. Many of the playoff teams could withstand one as well.

Of course not good to have to rely on that, but I guess it's possible a couple teams get hit bad again. We had our troubles too...and with our lack of depth it hurts us worse.

I view the west as it's always going to be tough because it has a bunch of good franchises so ultimately you just need to worry about yourself being good and if you can get to like 45 wins you should get in because injuries and the west canibilizing itself. Now we've seen a 48 win suns team not make it so I guess 50 is probably the safest number. Basically be good and the rest will take care of itself.

Side note on the draft, you're right that the suns are locked into that 10 spot unless they make the playoffs in Orlando then they drop out of the lotto. Weird they did it that way but that is the case.

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I agree about worrying about yourself. West just seems really tough. But something like a Harden injury would kill the Rockets..they have no depth...I wouldn't be surprised if they start to regress even with Harden.

That's good about the lottery. Over a 13% chance to jump but if we were 12th it would be like 6%. Only a little better than a 1 in 8 chance but a lot better than before the odds changed for a lower team to jump with 4 spots and better odds.

Plus a lot better chance a guy like Vassell is there.

[bwgood77]

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[Saberestar]

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This is all talk and it's pretty clear that he is not gonna try to play.

[WeekapaugGroove]

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This is all talk and it's pretty clear that he is not gonna try to play.

Well we did just see Jonathan Isaac rip his ACL on the knee he had hurt earlier in the season. I have no issue making sure he's right before playing. Meniscus injuries are also the type that can give you trouble later in your career, look at Wade the last few years of his career.

I guess I do actually think he tries to play a little, otherwise why go to Orlando. He could have easily said he was staying home to rehab and he would have still got paid and no one would have gave him **** about it.

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