Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[letsgosuns]

Some of the Suns promotional tactics the past few years have been embarrassing. The worst was that guarantee you have fun or get your money back game in the 2012/13 season. This offseason, so much emphasis is being put on new uniforms, the change of the court, and the WeArePHX thing. It is pointless. You want fans? Put a good product on the court that fans can get excited about. Instead of fans preparing for a new season, everyone is wondering what Markieff is going to do on media day. It is awful. These promotions are the sign of a desperate organization struggling with its fan base. This has been the worst five year stretch in franchise history. Chances are good that the Suns will miss the playoffs once again this coming season. There are also ZERO fan favorites on the team. I am sure half the fans out there would not care if any of these players are traded. Dark time for the Suns.

I think that is why many fans, including myself, are put off by this video with Nash narrating. It shows so many great players that left the team on bad terms. Worst of all is that its release coincided with the announcement that Nash took a job with the Warriors. So all these players everyone loved from the SSOL teams and KJ/Barkley years have zero affiliation with the team. Why bring it up? Stop living in the past. Videos like that do not get me excited for the season. They make me relive how many terrible moves this team has made for the past ten years letting those players go.

[Safety Pickle]

Some of the Suns promotional tactics the past few years have been embarrassing. The worst was that guarantee you have fun or get your money back game in the 2012/13 season. This offseason, so much emphasis is being put on new uniforms, the change of the court, and the WeArePHX thing. It is pointless. You want fans? Put a good product on the court that fans can get excited about. Instead of fans preparing for a new season, everyone is wondering what Markieff is going to do on media day. It is awful. These promotions are the sign of a desperate organization struggling with its fan base. This has been the worst five year stretch in franchise history. Chances are good that the Suns will miss the playoffs once again this coming season. There are also ZERO fan favorites on the team. I am sure half the fans out there would not care if any of these players are traded. Dark time for the Suns.

I think that is why many fans, including myself, are put off by this video with Nash narrating. It shows so many great players that left the team on bad terms. Worst of all is that its release coincided with the announcement that Nash took a job with the Warriors. So all these players everyone loved from the SSOL teams and KJ/Barkley years have zero affiliation with the team. Why bring it up? Stop living in the past. Videos like that do not get me excited for the season. They make me relive how many terrible moves this team has made for the past ten years letting those players go.

Nash didn't leave on bad terms, neither did Amare. What great players are you talking about?

[letsgosuns]

Some of the Suns promotional tactics the past few years have been embarrassing. The worst was that guarantee you have fun or get your money back game in the 2012/13 season. This offseason, so much emphasis is being put on new uniforms, the change of the court, and the WeArePHX thing. It is pointless. You want fans? Put a good product on the court that fans can get excited about. Instead of fans preparing for a new season, everyone is wondering what Markieff is going to do on media day. It is awful. These promotions are the sign of a desperate organization struggling with its fan base. This has been the worst five year stretch in franchise history. Chances are good that the Suns will miss the playoffs once again this coming season. There are also ZERO fan favorites on the team. I am sure half the fans out there would not care if any of these players are traded. Dark time for the Suns.

I think that is why many fans, including myself, are put off by this video with Nash narrating. It shows so many great players that left the team on bad terms. Worst of all is that its release coincided with the announcement that Nash took a job with the Warriors. So all these players everyone loved from the SSOL teams and KJ/Barkley years have zero affiliation with the team. Why bring it up? Stop living in the past. Videos like that do not get me excited for the season. They make me relive how many terrible moves this team has made for the past ten years letting those players go.

Nash didn't leave on bad terms, neither did Amare. What great players are you talking about?

Shawn Marion. Dan Majerle. Raja Bell. D'Antoni left on bad terms (even though I am not a D'antoni fan). Gentry (my all time favorite Suns coach) was thrown away to be replaced by the most pathetic coach I have ever seen in Lindsey Hunter. This was also when Majerle was looked over and quit because of disbelief that he did not get hired to coach after Gentry. And I personally did not like the way Amare and Nash left the organization. In 2010 when the team when made the WCF, Blanks and Babby together with Sarver destroyed the team and it has been reeling ever since. Instead of building upon what they had achieved, they ruined it. It is sad.

[jcsunsfan]

Some of the Suns promotional tactics the past few years have been embarrassing. The worst was that guarantee you have fun or get your money back game in the 2012/13 season. This offseason, so much emphasis is being put on new uniforms, the change of the court, and the WeArePHX thing. It is pointless. You want fans? Put a good product on the court that fans can get excited about. Instead of fans preparing for a new season, everyone is wondering what Markieff is going to do on media day. It is awful. These promotions are the sign of a desperate organization struggling with its fan base. This has been the worst five year stretch in franchise history. Chances are good that the Suns will miss the playoffs once again this coming season. There are also ZERO fan favorites on the team. I am sure half the fans out there would not care if any of these players are traded. Dark time for the Suns.

I think that is why many fans, including myself, are put off by this video with Nash narrating. It shows so many great players that left the team on bad terms. Worst of all is that its release coincided with the announcement that Nash took a job with the Warriors. So all these players everyone loved from the SSOL teams and KJ/Barkley years have zero affiliation with the team. Why bring it up? Stop living in the past. Videos like that do not get me excited for the season. They make me relive how many terrible moves this team has made for the past ten years letting those players go.

Nash didn't leave on bad terms, neither did Amare. What great players are you talking about?

Shawn Marion. Dan Majerle. Raja Bell. D'Antoni left on bad terms (even though I am not a D'antoni fan). Gentry (my all time favorite Suns coach) was thrown away to be replaced by the most pathetic coach I have ever seen in Lindsey Hunter. This was also when Majerle was looked over and quit because of disbelief that he did not get hired to coach after Gentry. And I personally did not like the way Amare and Nash left the organization. In 2010 when the team when made the WCF, Blanks and Babby together with Sarver destroyed the team and it has been reeling ever since. Instead of building upon what they had achieved, they ruined it. It is sad.

Very few coaching transition happy in an atmosphere of joy and victory. I am glad that Majerle did not become coach. He would not have been a good one--although probably better than Hunter. Looking back, it would have been better to keep Gentry. I like having Horny for a coach though.

I do not know how things could have been done differently with Amare. He was offered a very fair deal. NY offered him a frachise killing deal. NY was able to absorb that fiasco of a deal they gave Amare, it would have severely damaged the Suns in this market. I am also not sure what could have been done differently with Nash except trade him sooner, but I don't think that would have satisfied you.

Its easy to not like what DID happen, but its much more difficult to explain what SHOULD have happened instead.

[TeamTragic]

Some of the Suns promotional tactics the past few years have been embarrassing. The worst was that guarantee you have fun or get your money back game in the 2012/13 season. This offseason, so much emphasis is being put on new uniforms, the change of the court, and the WeArePHX thing. It is pointless. You want fans? Put a good product on the court that fans can get excited about. Instead of fans preparing for a new season, everyone is wondering what Markieff is going to do on media day. It is awful. These promotions are the sign of a desperate organization struggling with its fan base. This has been the worst five year stretch in franchise history. Chances are good that the Suns will miss the playoffs once again this coming season. There are also ZERO fan favorites on the team. I am sure half the fans out there would not care if any of these players are traded. Dark time for the Suns.

I think that is why many fans, including myself, are put off by this video with Nash narrating. It shows so many great players that left the team on bad terms. Worst of all is that its release coincided with the announcement that Nash took a job with the Warriors. So all these players everyone loved from the SSOL teams and KJ/Barkley years have zero affiliation with the team. Why bring it up? Stop living in the past. Videos like that do not get me excited for the season. They make me relive how many terrible moves this team has made for the past ten years letting those players go.

Nash didn't leave on bad terms, neither did Amare. What great players are you talking about?

Shawn Marion. Dan Majerle. Raja Bell. D'Antoni left on bad terms (even though I am not a D'antoni fan). Gentry (my all time favorite Suns coach) was thrown away to be replaced by the most pathetic coach I have ever seen in Lindsey Hunter. This was also when Majerle was looked over and quit because of disbelief that he did not get hired to coach after Gentry. And I personally did not like the way Amare and Nash left the organization. In 2010 when the team when made the WCF, Blanks and Babby together with Sarver destroyed the team and it has been reeling ever since. Instead of building upon what they had achieved, they ruined it. It is sad.

I'm going to address the above by just saying that eventually we were going to have to deal with this situation. Amare chased money and being the man in New York. Apparently he was beasting until he got injured which our training staff predicated. That contract was **** awful and I could give two **** about Amare. He could have stayed but he didn't feel loyalty to the organization. Pretty crazy if you ask me.

Marion didn't feel as though we respected him and apparently there weren't enough bobbleheads to make him happy. Who **** knows with these guys. Majerle should have been given a chance however our old front office was clueless as ****. No surprise they made a mistake especially since they wanted Felton over Dragic.

I'm not sure what happened with Bell though he was pretty much at the end of his career. The team started to disintegrate and he no longer fit the system. Then there is DA and his attitude towards defense. Kerr tried to get him to upgrade his defensive staff and he flat out refused. I remember reading recently that he regretted leaving Phoenix and not listening to Kerr.

Guess who just won a championship as head coach? Clearly Kerr wasn't wrong about everything as much as everyone wants to pretend. Blanks and everyone else were garbage. No doubt. I'm not even sure why Babby is still here. I would fire his ass immediately if I was Sarver. Then I would sell the team to someone who knows what they are doing.

Balmer bought the Clippers but that franchise is a disaster. Look at the Kings owners. Moving from a cheap clueless owner to a wealthy clueless owner hasn't proved fruitful. Look at the Nets. I'm not sure what Prokhorov has accomplished besides losing money. I hate making this comparison but it could definitely be worse.

We now have McD at the helm and he has proven that he knows how to build a team though many people disagree with his tactics. He almost got LMA and I feel that we would have gone deep in the play-offs. That didn't happen because we are not the San Antonio Spurs.

Imagine if we had traded Amare for Steph Curry as proposed. Amare/Diaw didn't get suspended. Deng/Ibaka selected with our traded picks. Signing LMA in FA. You need to have the skills but don't forget about luck.

[RunDogGun]

Bell and Diaw were at odds with Porter, so for some reason, we traded them instead of firing Porter. It really bothered Nash, and eventually they figured out it was Porter, who didn't fit. Overall that was all on Kerr. That bad move (hiring Porter), ruined that whole season. We would have made the playoffs even after Amare and LB went down.

Gentry was not a good head coach. In the Ned he made bad in game desisions, and after having a brief success with the 2010 team, which he really just let players play and lucked out with great team chemistry, he tried the rest of his years here searching for a two squad line up. But he started Baron and Turk at the four, and overall couldn't maximize his players. Eventually we just became a stand and watch team, with high school handoffs at the top of the key, and many guys standing around at the three point line waiting for a pass. Gentry often had guys like Lopez and Childress standing at the three point line, and being absolutely zero threat from there. Teams just packed the lane.

Oh well, I've gone through Gentry way too much, good to great assistant, not a good head coach.

I like Hornacek, but after last year, we will need everyone to buy in. I'm concerned about both Goodwin and Markieef (if we can't move him). Archie complained too much, and after his " no one knows their role" bs, I think he and Jeff will have issues.

[bwgood77]

Some of the Suns promotional tactics the past few years have been embarrassing. The worst was that guarantee you have fun or get your money back game in the 2012/13 season. This offseason, so much emphasis is being put on new uniforms, the change of the court, and the WeArePHX thing. It is pointless. You want fans? Put a good product on the court that fans can get excited about. Instead of fans preparing for a new season, everyone is wondering what Markieff is going to do on media day. It is awful. These promotions are the sign of a desperate organization struggling with its fan base. This has been the worst five year stretch in franchise history. Chances are good that the Suns will miss the playoffs once again this coming season. There are also ZERO fan favorites on the team. I am sure half the fans out there would not care if any of these players are traded. Dark time for the Suns.

I think that is why many fans, including myself, are put off by this video with Nash narrating. It shows so many great players that left the team on bad terms. Worst of all is that its release coincided with the announcement that Nash took a job with the Warriors. So all these players everyone loved from the SSOL teams and KJ/Barkley years have zero affiliation with the team. Why bring it up? Stop living in the past. Videos like that do not get me excited for the season. They make me relive how many terrible moves this team has made for the past ten years letting those players go.

The video isn't going to get many hard core fans to become more excited, and those disinterested in the team (many) won't ever watch it. It might pump up a few in the middle. It was a cool video....most likely the people who like it most are the devoted ticket holders and middle of the road people not too vested in what they likely deem little stuff like Markieff.

I don't see much downside to the video.

I do think that putting more purple and removing black would improve things though. Black can be slick, but when it comes to competition in sports, black can be viewed as evil, as with any media portrayal. Purple is a fun color. They REALLY NEED to get that purple back in big time.

Long time fans will associate with that. You can't say you are being loyal to the past and abandon purple. And is black something that gets people pumped up? No, it may do the opposite if things are not going well. I'm not saying purple is a color that makes people excited but it is the team's history, and why would they abandon the old fans and familiarity with the team in this stretch?

It's crazy.

From a marketing standpoint, if we had truly dope uniforms with purple and the court with just purple and orange, the city would recognize the team and engage more in the product. Yes, I'm talking to you, anyone who works for the Suns and can impact this.

[JohnWall2]

Everyone keeps mentioning how they don't get all the hate, but I don't see a bunch of hate. I just see a bunch of people saying they don't get all the hate. I mean, we know how Burning Heart feels, but he hasn't been around in a while. Other than that, where is all this hate you all speak of? I think one person said he's dead to them.

Theres posters here saying he was dead to them when he left for the Lakers....I think that counts as hate. There are certainly some negative posts about the guy and people rightly don't understand why.

[RunDogGun]

Everyone keeps mentioning how they don't get all the hate, but I don't see a bunch of hate. I just see a bunch of people saying they don't get all the hate. I mean, we know how Burning Heart feels, but he hasn't been around in a while. Other than that, where is all this hate you all speak of? I think one person said he's dead to them.

Theres posters here saying he was dead to them when he left for the Lakers....I think that counts as hate. There are certainly some negative posts about the guy and people rightly don't understand why.

I don't hate Nash, but I sure didn't think about him, nor follow him when he left for the Lakers. Even the real Grant Hill made fun of Nash leaving the Suns for the Lakers.

Oh well, I usually don't care about players once they leave the Suns.

[NavLDO]

Everyone keeps mentioning how they don't get all the hate, but I don't see a bunch of hate. I just see a bunch of people saying they don't get all the hate. I mean, we know how Burning Heart feels, but he hasn't been around in a while. Other than that, where is all this hate you all speak of? I think one person said he's dead to them.

Umm...

No. Nash's kids lived with his ex-wife (they allegedly got divorced because Nash cheated on her with an ASU student who is his current girlfriend and she cheated on Nash with JRich) in Phoenix. Nash asked to be traded to the Lakers so "he could be close to his kids in Phoenix" (BS he wanted to contend with Kobe). His ex tried to move to LA so the kids would be even closer. Nash went to court to try to block the kids from moving to LA and lost. Now they live in LA with him part time. Nash will never be affiliated with the Suns again, his ROH ceremony will probably be the first and last time he is in Phoenix on Suns related business. I bet to film that video they took their whole crew to him in LA instead of him coming to Phoenix. Nash has no loyalty to the Suns and all his old buddies are gone.

That video is pathetic and makes me embarrassed as a Suns fan to be honest especially given the timing of the video with the Nash/Warriors hire. Suns look like a joke once again parading around a guy saying "We are PHX" (stupid slogan btw) who has no loyalty to the team and even works for another team. None of the big 3 from the SSOL era (Nash, Amare or Marion) will even be affiliated with this organization again the way other teams appreciate their greats. I hate the Warriors more than the Lakers, all they are is a rip off of the Suns that works and is beloved by everyone in the media and shoved in our faces 24/7. Nash isn't going to be on the bench with the Warriors, he will barely even show up to any games. All he's going to do is drop in on practices every now and then and help them out in the off-season like he's been doing with Clarkson and Russell or like Hakeem does with every player. He could have done the same for the Suns, he probably just didn't want to.

...and then there is...

Nash has never been loyal. He left a consistent 50+ win Mavs team with his best friend Dirk to join a 29 win Suns team because we offered him more money. Barkley would have been a better option for the video, he still calls the Suns his team and lives in PHX.

...and as you mentioned...

Nash was dead to me the minute he went to the Lakers.

...plus...

Like SunsFanSSOL, I was also disappointed Nash went to the Lakers. I could not believe it when it happened. I remember thinking he was going to go back to Dallas or go to NY with Amare. When I saw the breaking news at the time that he was signing with the Lakers I was flabbergasted. Since then, I never felt the same way about Nash. I really do not care about him ever coming back and working with the Suns. Yes he provided the organization with some of the greatest years in franchise history, but he never won more than two WCF games. I still consider Barkley the all-time greatest Sun and it is honestly not even close.

So, that's three separate quotes by one poster, and a 4th from another...hence, all the 'hate'...just because it was one poster, when said three separate times, that, to me, is a lot of 'hate'.

[letsgosuns]

Everyone keeps mentioning how they don't get all the hate, but I don't see a bunch of hate. I just see a bunch of people saying they don't get all the hate. I mean, we know how Burning Heart feels, but he hasn't been around in a while. Other than that, where is all this hate you all speak of? I think one person said he's dead to them.

Umm...

No. Nash's kids lived with his ex-wife (they allegedly got divorced because Nash cheated on her with an ASU student who is his current girlfriend and she cheated on Nash with JRich) in Phoenix. Nash asked to be traded to the Lakers so "he could be close to his kids in Phoenix" (BS he wanted to contend with Kobe). His ex tried to move to LA so the kids would be even closer. Nash went to court to try to block the kids from moving to LA and lost. Now they live in LA with him part time. Nash will never be affiliated with the Suns again, his ROH ceremony will probably be the first and last time he is in Phoenix on Suns related business. I bet to film that video they took their whole crew to him in LA instead of him coming to Phoenix. Nash has no loyalty to the Suns and all his old buddies are gone.

That video is pathetic and makes me embarrassed as a Suns fan to be honest especially given the timing of the video with the Nash/Warriors hire. Suns look like a joke once again parading around a guy saying "We are PHX" (stupid slogan btw) who has no loyalty to the team and even works for another team. None of the big 3 from the SSOL era (Nash, Amare or Marion) will even be affiliated with this organization again the way other teams appreciate their greats. I hate the Warriors more than the Lakers, all they are is a rip off of the Suns that works and is beloved by everyone in the media and shoved in our faces 24/7. Nash isn't going to be on the bench with the Warriors, he will barely even show up to any games. All he's going to do is drop in on practices every now and then and help them out in the off-season like he's been doing with Clarkson and Russell or like Hakeem does with every player. He could have done the same for the Suns, he probably just didn't want to.

...and then there is...

Nash has never been loyal. He left a consistent 50+ win Mavs team with his best friend Dirk to join a 29 win Suns team because we offered him more money. Barkley would have been a better option for the video, he still calls the Suns his team and lives in PHX.

...and as you mentioned...

Nash was dead to me the minute he went to the Lakers.

...plus...

Like SunsFanSSOL, I was also disappointed Nash went to the Lakers. I could not believe it when it happened. I remember thinking he was going to go back to Dallas or go to NY with Amare. When I saw the breaking news at the time that he was signing with the Lakers I was flabbergasted. Since then, I never felt the same way about Nash. I really do not care about him ever coming back and working with the Suns. Yes he provided the organization with some of the greatest years in franchise history, but he never won more than two WCF games. I still consider Barkley the all-time greatest Sun and it is honestly not even close.

So, that's three separate quotes by one poster, and a 4th from another...hence, all the 'hate'...just because it was one poster, when said three separate times, that, to me, is a lot of 'hate'.

You are confusing being disappointed that Nash went to the Lakers with hate. Just like I said in that post, I was disappointed that Nash went to the Lakers. I understand it was his right as a player to go wherever he wanted. However, it was also my right as a fan to be disappointed he chose the Lakers. And it is true, I never felt the same way about Nash after that, but you saying I hate him is totally off base. I just never thought he would be the kind of player to sign with the ultimate rival and chase a ring, which is what he did. That Lakers team even prior to acquiring Howard was an absolute powerhouse team on paper and title contender if healthy. Kobe and Gasol were still unstoppable then. Also those things I stated are facts. Nash never made it out of the WCF. Barkley at least took the Suns to the finals. Plus I believe the city was behind the Barkley Suns teams more than any other Suns teams.

As far as me not caring if Nash ever comes back and works with the Suns, so what. I do not care if he comes back to the Suns. What is the big deal. What does that have to do with hate? All I said was I do not care if he comes back or not. I did not say I do not want him coming back. I would welcome him if he came back. I just do not care if it happens.

[offset]

I dated the court reporter that did the deposition for the Nash divorce. All of the rumors are just rumors. There was nothing overy salacious or tabloid worthy about the reasons for the divorce.

[letsgosuns]

Training camp starts in about a week. If Markieff is not traded before then, I do not think he is getting traded. Crazy that the Suns might be willing to go into the season with such a dark cloud hanging over the team instead of starting the season with a fresh outlook and no potential chemistry issues.

[Saberestar]

Training camp starts in about a week. If Markieff is not traded before then, I do not think he is getting traded. Crazy that the Suns might be willing to go into the season with such a dark cloud hanging over the team instead of starting the season with a fresh outlook and no potential chemistry issues.

I think we are gonna trade him just before the start of the season, like Gortat 2 years ago.

[jredsaz]

Training camp starts in about a week. If Markieff is not traded before then, I do not think he is getting traded. Crazy that the Suns might be willing to go into the season with such a dark cloud hanging over the team instead of starting the season with a fresh outlook and no potential chemistry issues.

I think we are gonna trade him just before the start of the season, like Gortat 2 years ago.

Was Gortat at Suns Media Day 2013?... Yes he was. Forgot he was traded that close to the start of the regular season. Morris is way more toxic tho.

[Jdiddy701]

Harrison Barnes will make about 16 mil a year.. maybe more! Crazy!

10pts 5 rebs average last year.



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Mulhollanddrive]

Every team has about a 20m once off weapon to use in the next couple of years.

I don't think a non-contender can turn into a contender without elite use of that. Wonder if we can land a franchise SF.

[Frank Lee]

We now have McD at the helm and he has proven that he knows how to build a team....

Just because you can shuffle cards doesn't mean you know how to deal

[Saberestar]

Training camp starts in about a week. If Markieff is not traded before then, I do not think he is getting traded. Crazy that the Suns might be willing to go into the season with such a dark cloud hanging over the team instead of starting the season with a fresh outlook and no potential chemistry issues.

I think we are gonna trade him just before the start of the season, like Gortat 2 years ago.

Was Gortat at Suns Media Day 2013?... Yes he was. Forgot he was traded that close to the start of the regular season. Morris is way more toxic tho.

I think it is bad move, I would trade Markieff earlier, but McD waits too long to make trades. This happened with Isaiah too.

[RunDogGun]

We now have McD at the helm and he has proven that he knows how to build a team....

Just because you can shuffle cards doesn't mean you know how to deal

I think he did just fine dealing. He took a 25 win team to 48. Can he go to WSoB, who knows? But if you are going to use analogies, at least be honest about them.