2019 season speculation including trade ideas

[hollywood6964]

Well
Arguably yes
But more valuable? Not so sure

I don't think it's much of an argument. But I may argue starting Bridges, and bringing Oubre off the bench is not a bad idea. Bridges doesn't need to do as much in the starting lineup, might give him a confidence boost, which looks much needed, and he can be in position to shoot that slow mo 3 pt shot more often due to book n rubio creating. With Oubre, it would feel more like he's helping, than being demoted, because Bridges has not deserved to be in the starting lineup. And coming off Goran killing it with the bench, playing the Manu role, it may look like he's been given the duty of doing the same. At least until Ayton gets back, would be the message.

Oubre has been better just as good on defense as Bridges. He can score too, unlike bridges.

Was this a serious post?

Of course he's better, by me saying Oubre is better than Johnson, I wasn't saying he was worse then Bridges.

Oubre going to the bench would be for the reasons I stated. Not Oubre bench, Bridges Starter= Bridges>Oubre. In fact, more or less the opposite, Oubre would need to carry a load off the bench that Bridges cannot. It would work out.

But, I don't think Oubre would be able to handle it, correctly. Even with the message I stated in the initial post being clear. Staggering the starters minutes to be able to play with the bench, namely Oubre n at times Booker would help. Especially being a lot thinner without Ayton moving Baynes to the starting lineup, and having to play Kaminsky way too much. Probably help anyway due to lack of playmaking on the bench, either for others or themselves.

[lilfishi22]

I don't think it's much of an argument. But I may argue starting Bridges, and bringing Oubre off the bench is not a bad idea. Bridges doesn't need to do as much in the starting lineup, might give him a confidence boost, which looks much needed, and he can be in position to shoot that slow mo 3 pt shot more often due to book n rubio creating. With Oubre, it would feel more like he's helping, than being demoted, because Bridges has not deserved to be in the starting lineup. And coming off Goran killing it with the bench, playing the Manu role, it may look like he's been given the duty of doing the same. At least until Ayton gets back, would be the message.

Oubre has been better just as good on defense as Bridges. He can score too, unlike bridges.

Was this a serious post?

Of course he's better, by me saying Oubre is better than Johnson, I wasn't saying he was worse then Bridges.

Oubre going to the bench would be for the reasons I stated. Not Oubre bench, Bridges Starter= Bridges>Oubre. In fact, more or less the opposite, Oubre would need to carry a load off the bench that Bridges cannot. It would work out.

But, I don't think Oubre would be able to handle it, correctly. Even with the message I stated in the initial post being clear. Staggering the starters minutes to be able to play with the bench, namely Oubre n at times Booker would help. Especially being a lot thinner without Ayton moving Baynes to the starting lineup, and having to play Kaminsky way too much. Probably help anyway due to lack of playmaking on the bench, either for others or themselves.

I agree

Our offense has a tendency to get a bit stagnant when our lead guards are Carter and TJo, neither of whom are very good playmakers. I've argued for this previously too and a guy like Oubre who can create his own somewhat competently would be extremely valuable in keeping the offense revving when Rubio/Booker are sitting on the bench.

At the same time, Mikal gets to play with a higher level player maker again like he did last season alongside Booker, where he was a lot more successful because he gets set up better and there's significantly less defensive focus on him.

This is not a Bridges v Oubre argument because right now Oubre is just the better two way player. But in the interest of finding the right rotations, I think it would make sense to play Bridges with the starters more than Oubre

[hollywood6964]

Oubre has been better just as good on defense as Bridges. He can score too, unlike bridges.

Was this a serious post?

Of course he's better, by me saying Oubre is better than Johnson, I wasn't saying he was worse then Bridges.

Oubre going to the bench would be for the reasons I stated. Not Oubre bench, Bridges Starter= Bridges>Oubre. In fact, more or less the opposite, Oubre would need to carry a load off the bench that Bridges cannot. It would work out.

But, I don't think Oubre would be able to handle it, correctly. Even with the message I stated in the initial post being clear. Staggering the starters minutes to be able to play with the bench, namely Oubre n at times Booker would help. Especially being a lot thinner without Ayton moving Baynes to the starting lineup, and having to play Kaminsky way too much. Probably help anyway due to lack of playmaking on the bench, either for others or themselves.

I agree

Our offense has a tendency to get a bit stagnant when our lead guards are Carter and TJo, neither of whom are very good playmakers. I've argued for this previously too and a guy like Oubre who can create his own somewhat competently would be extremely valuable in keeping the offense revving when Rubio/Booker are sitting on the bench.

At the same time, Mikal gets to play with a higher level player maker again like he did last season alongside Booker, where he was a lot more successful because he gets set up better and there's significantly less defensive focus on him.

This is not a Bridges v Oubre argument because right now Oubre is just the better two way player. But in the interest of finding the right rotations, I think it would make sense to play Bridges with the starters more than Oubre

Yup. Oubre on one wing and Johnson on the other would really help overall. Hell Oubre would probably get more shots n up his stats, if that were something he'd be worried about.

[NTB]

Read on Twitter

[Dual]

That can only go up, I guess...

[MrMiyagi]

I feel like Oubre would go all Josh Jackson if he came off the bench. I think with Rubio and Booker, he doesn't have to try to do too much and his hyperactivity gets focused. If he came off the bench, he'd try to make it the Oubre show and probably start picking up dumb turnovers and fouls.

[bwoolf2]

Read on Twitter

that's a dumb statistic Cam is a little over 35% and Dario 33%, Bridges and Frank bring those #s down being under 20%

[Qwigglez]

So it looks like the majority were tied with 3 or 4, with 5 coming in a clear second and then it drops to a few saying 6. It seems safe to say that we are doing better (or far better) than expected than most would have thought. I only say far better or better considering we are only through 8 games, so at worst, we still at least meet or beat the vast majority of expectations already.

And this is before knowing Ayton was out. I think we certainly would have had worse poll results had that been known.

Another thing I hate is that when a team vastly overachieves relative to expectations, that when things go poorly (usually coaches) but often a lot of blame is throw around when they had likely simply been overachieving relative to talent and that teams will eventually settle a bit, especially when other teams learn their style, system, can better game plan, etc.

I think we will still be quite a bit better than most expected, particularly since we will have Ayton come back which is huge.

It might also be good to have a thread strictly dedicated to past poll results so people can look back at what we were expecting relative to what happened.

We could just put the polls at the start of the thread? Or we could start a new thread. Gonna make a new poll with the next 10 games predictions in the next several hours though.

[bwgood77]

So it looks like the majority were tied with 3 or 4, with 5 coming in a clear second and then it drops to a few saying 6. It seems safe to say that we are doing better (or far better) than expected than most would have thought. I only say far better or better considering we are only through 8 games, so at worst, we still at least meet or beat the vast majority of expectations already.

And this is before knowing Ayton was out. I think we certainly would have had worse poll results had that been known.

Another thing I hate is that when a team vastly overachieves relative to expectations, that when things go poorly (usually coaches) but often a lot of blame is throw around when they had likely simply been overachieving relative to talent and that teams will eventually settle a bit, especially when other teams learn their style, system, can better game plan, etc.

I think we will still be quite a bit better than most expected, particularly since we will have Ayton come back which is huge.

It might also be good to have a thread strictly dedicated to past poll results so people can look back at what we were expecting relative to what happened.

We could just put the polls at the start of the thread? Or we could start a new thread. Gonna make a new poll with the next 10 games predictions in the next several hours though.

You mean the 2nd 10? We still have two left of the first 10.

[Qwigglez]

So it looks like the majority were tied with 3 or 4, with 5 coming in a clear second and then it drops to a few saying 6. It seems safe to say that we are doing better (or far better) than expected than most would have thought. I only say far better or better considering we are only through 8 games, so at worst, we still at least meet or beat the vast majority of expectations already.

And this is before knowing Ayton was out. I think we certainly would have had worse poll results had that been known.

Another thing I hate is that when a team vastly overachieves relative to expectations, that when things go poorly (usually coaches) but often a lot of blame is throw around when they had likely simply been overachieving relative to talent and that teams will eventually settle a bit, especially when other teams learn their style, system, can better game plan, etc.

I think we will still be quite a bit better than most expected, particularly since we will have Ayton come back which is huge.

It might also be good to have a thread strictly dedicated to past poll results so people can look back at what we were expecting relative to what happened.

We could just put the polls at the start of the thread? Or we could start a new thread. Gonna make a new poll with the next 10 games predictions in the next several hours though.

You mean the 2nd 10? We still have two left of the first 10.

Wanted to give enough people time to vote before games 11-20 happen.

[Frank Lee]

I think you guys are underrating Tyler Johnson. He's running a crew consisting featuring Shank, Carter and Bridges, with may be CamJo or Oubre tossed in. Its tough to be a playmaker when you are playing with guys who are struggling to make plays. With Baynes shifting to squad 1, the second unit is dramatically reduced. I get it tho, as Monty has to see who he has. But comes a time when that observation will be costing us wins, and when fighting for a playoff slot, each W is vital.

Shelve the Hockey Line substitution method. There has to be some overlap of our starters with the bench. Hold the fort best we can till Ayton comes back, and there will be a 35 minute upgrade of talent. Its only a matter of time till we see the best 7-8 guys getting the majority of minutes...I hope. It is good to keep the minutes in check for Book, Rubio, and Baynes as we dont want to wear them down. But it never seemed to be a problem for Pringle's teams. And really, professional athletes are capable of the work load when the results desired follow. Right now, I think our depth is overrated as the plug and play bench looks out of sorts.

[bwgood77]

I really like Tyler Johnson.....he plays hard, smart, makes good passes with few turnovers...plays within system, communicates, etc.

It is funny thinking in one of our recent polls our most surprising players by far are Kaminsky and Carter....who have since fallen back down to earth.

I still think Carter will put in the effort, but he's probably not cut out to be a backup PG. I simply like the little I've seen from Okobo who also looks good defensively staying in front of his man, and also his quickness getting to the rim and (I think) improved shot.

I don't anticipate us giving Carter the QO when it comes to it. We will find better in draft or FA and/or guys we are developing.

Frank has the skills but is playing like Bender used to. Not sure what his deal is with shooting. If he doesn't fix this he needs to lose his rotation spot.

If only Ayton still didn't have 18 games left on suspension, and Cam could look a little better, we could go small and never have to play Dario and Frank together as the bigs.

My vote at the time was Kaminsky but hands down looking back not sure why it wasn't Baynes. I guess because I expected him to be tough and a quality player, but even then, I didn't expect quite this much, with the assists, 3 pt % and volume, etc, but it still is a career year, so not sure anyone could have quite expected this.

I will eat crow on spending the money and trade for him instead of keeping Holmes (who I still like) but Baynes has made a HUGE difference. I pray that Ayton has half the screening and help D ability that Baynes has when coming back. Ayton showed some good help D and will always block more shots (which, in itself isn't as important as just being in position and getting in front of guys so they can't drive) but hopefully he's really watching Baynes and how he allows others to thrive offensively with his screens.

And of course Ayton is already the far better inside scorer and rebounder (though Baynes may help with team rebounding overall more which is just as impactful with box outs allowing others to get them like Rubio who can start the break).

I also hate these two day breaks. The plus is that we will likely have fewer of them later, though the minus is that our player that probably gets the most winded (Ayton) could probably use those two day breaks the most, so having fewer of them later doesn't help that.

I really hope we hear something (ANYTHING) about the appeal, but my guess is that they are setting an early example with these and will reject it unless there is a really compelling argument, which, if there was, it seems like we would have heard something. Seems like they would have started it on Monday or Tuesday.

Back to eating crow on the Baynes....I can't eat it on the taking Cam over Clarke or PJ Washington though...still don't understand the Cam pick if we were keeping Oubre and have Bridges.

I know Bridges is off to the slow start and had the injury like Book did last year, but his shooting has been a disappointment. At least the D has been as advertised. Still think we could use that in the starting lineup and I also think that might help his shooting with more options and focus on Booker but I doubt we see a change there soon. Also Oubre could REALLY help the offense of that second unit with Kaminsky, Cam, and Carter.

[Dual]

Good posts here
Wel, Cam Johnson theoretically has a lot of sense as he can play SF and PF and because his jump shot seems to be great, at least the mechanics are beautiful.
In that regard Herro mechanics are amazing, such fast release damn.
I know Cam is already 24, but I still think he can be good rotation player for us, at least shooting wise.
It dont help that Carter and Kaminsky has been so bad on offense, that brings extra pressure on him to make those baskets.
Man, how a few games can change everything, Carter and Kaminsky downs have been so huge, I'm still in shock.

[Fo-Real]

I know there are people that are crazy against putting Baynes and Ayton together in the starting line-up but can someone tell me that Baynes could not do or give us what Saric is giving us right now? He is probably a better defender than Saric, better on the boards, is shooting a better percentage from EVERYWHERE and is a better communicator on the floor. He seems lighter and more agile than I have ever seen him, with he and Ayton both being agile enough to guard Pf's and C's I see no reason they can not share the court if we think Ayton and Saric can share the court.

[Dual]

Our starting 5 is not the problem, is the bench, in that case moving Baynes to the bench is huge.
But the 5 you say can finish games for example. Is the strongest line up maybe.

[Frank Lee]

Rock on Fo......I think its a practical certainty...IE Play your best players. Baynes deserves 24 + mins a night... Ayton 32+. Have to have some overlap.

[Mjee]

I know there are people that are crazy against putting Baynes and Ayton together in the starting line-up but can someone tell me that Baynes could not do or give us what Saric is giving us right now? He is probably a better defender than Saric, better on the boards, is shooting a better percentage from EVERYWHERE and is a better communicator on the floor. He seems lighter and more agile than I have ever seen him, with he and Ayton both being agile enough to guard Pf's and C's I see no reason they can not share the court if we think Ayton and Saric can share the court.

I love this post and am 100% on board !!!

[Saberestar]

I know there are people that are crazy against putting Baynes and Ayton together in the starting line-up but can someone tell me that Baynes could not do or give us what Saric is giving us right now? He is probably a better defender than Saric, better on the boards, is shooting a better percentage from EVERYWHERE and is a better communicator on the floor. He seems lighter and more agile than I have ever seen him, with he and Ayton both being agile enough to guard Pf's and C's I see no reason they can not share the court if we think Ayton and Saric can share the court.

Yeah, I am not a fan of playing two Cs together, but it's true that Saric is slow and Baynes looks a better overall player than him this season.

With that in mind I would agree with you. Baynes/Ayton starting and Saric coming from the bench. Not sure if Monty will make this change, I think he values Saric a lot and wants to give him confidence.

Definitely I would prefer a quicker lineup, with a more agile and perimeter oriented PF, but we don't have someone like that on the roster.

[hollywood6964]

I really like Tyler Johnson.....he plays hard, smart, makes good passes with few turnovers...plays within system, communicates, etc.

It is funny thinking in one of our recent polls our most surprising players by far are Kaminsky and Carter....who have since fallen back down to earth.

I still think Carter will put in the effort, but he's probably not cut out to be a backup PG. I simply like the little I've seen from Okobo who also looks good defensively staying in front of his man, and also his quickness getting to the rim and (I think) improved shot.

I don't anticipate us giving Carter the QO when it comes to it. We will find better in draft or FA and/or guys we are developing.

Frank has the skills but is playing like Bender used to. Not sure what his deal is with shooting. If he doesn't fix this he needs to lose his rotation spot.

If only Ayton still didn't have 18 games left on suspension, and Cam could look a little better, we could go small and never have to play Dario and Frank together as the bigs.

My vote at the time was Kaminsky but hands down looking back not sure why it wasn't Baynes. I guess because I expected him to be tough and a quality player, but even then, I didn't expect quite this much, with the assists, 3 pt % and volume, etc, but it still is a career year, so not sure anyone could have quite expected this.

I will eat crow on spending the money and trade for him instead of keeping Holmes (who I still like) but Baynes has made a HUGE difference. I pray that Ayton has half the screening and help D ability that Baynes has when coming back. Ayton showed some good help D and will always block more shots (which, in itself isn't as important as just being in position and getting in front of guys so they can't drive) but hopefully he's really watching Baynes and how he allows others to thrive offensively with his screens.

And of course Ayton is already the far better inside scorer and rebounder (though Baynes may help with team rebounding overall more which is just as impactful with box outs allowing others to get them like Rubio who can start the break).

I also hate these two day breaks. The plus is that we will likely have fewer of them later, though the minus is that our player that probably gets the most winded (Ayton) could probably use those two day breaks the most, so having fewer of them later doesn't help that.

I really hope we hear something (ANYTHING) about the appeal, but my guess is that they are setting an early example with these and will reject it unless there is a really compelling argument, which, if there was, it seems like we would have heard something. Seems like they would have started it on Monday or Tuesday.

Back to eating crow on the Baynes....I can't eat it on the taking Cam over Clarke or PJ Washington though...still don't understand the Cam pick if we were keeping Oubre and have Bridges.

I know Bridges is off to the slow start and had the injury like Book did last year, but his shooting has been a disappointment. At least the D has been as advertised. Still think we could use that in the starting lineup and I also think that might help his shooting with more options and focus on Booker but I doubt we see a change there soon. Also Oubre could REALLY help the offense of that second unit with Kaminsky, Cam, and Carter.

I did expect it with it baynes, been saying it since summer here n in my personal life. I just saw how good he was on the Celtics n the they were dopes playing him a couple minutes here n there n in garbage time.

Oubre to the second unit would help immensely like I said before, and staggering the starters. The bench is just going to lose us games, and an eight man rotation is probably about right, since oubre is probably not going to the beach. Bridges, Tyler Johnson and whoever has it going would suffice.

I am still going with 51 wins.
We've had a tough as hell schedule n ayton gets knocked out one game in n we're still 5-3.
We should be able to win 2 of the next 3, the Lakers will be a damn mountain, literally n figuratively.
Suns better win tomorrow, losing to the one man **** show will really put a hamper on things, and might cause a losing streak.

[Fo-Real]

I know there are people that are crazy against putting Baynes and Ayton together in the starting line-up but can someone tell me that Baynes could not do or give us what Saric is giving us right now? He is probably a better defender than Saric, better on the boards, is shooting a better percentage from EVERYWHERE and is a better communicator on the floor. He seems lighter and more agile than I have ever seen him, with he and Ayton both being agile enough to guard Pf's and C's I see no reason they can not share the court if we think Ayton and Saric can share the court.

Yeah, I am not a fan of playing two Cs together, but it's true that Saric is slow and Baynes looks a better overall player than him this season.

With that in mind I would agree with you. Baynes/Ayton starting and Saric coming from the bench. Not sure if Monty will make this change, I think he values Saric a lot and wants to give him confidence.

Definitely I would prefer a quicker lineup, with a more agile and perimeter oriented PF, but we don't have someone like that on the roster.

Ayton coming back would also provide yet another level of gravity down low to continue to get Baynes open threes. Aaron is just such a complementary player it seems, he is doing EVERYTHING well right now. A bruiser down low, with the ball in his hands in the paint I now expect him to put the ball in the hole. Shooting the lights out, setting bone crushing screens and just a big (RED HEADED BARBARIAN) ball of energy. The dude is everywhere right now, how the hell is he getting better at like 33 years old? DUDE IS A BEAST!!!