2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

[sunsbg]

KD apparently still OUT. No point in trying to get him back if Suns lose GSW game(80% chance). Don't want to get the golden offseason trade goose hurt in meaningless game.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Even the players themselves acknowledge multiple factors leading to this downfall! Aside from the very obvious biggest factors complicit in this that they obviously can't discuss in Jones, Ishbia, Bartelstin, etc. But this is why the idea that some are still trying to promote around reloading things and somehow running it back is utterly pointless, delusional, and far outside the reality of our actual situation and projected outcome.

The best, most logical, and ultimately reasonable decision, absent emotion-laced madness, is unfortunately blowing it all up and rebuilding according to the actual successful blueprints of the most dominant top-tiered teams and the current climate of our league! Anything else is just unnecessarily compounding/prolonging an already losing and disappointing outcome.

[bullsaficianado]

I get the GM firing but the Malone firing is absolutely ridiculous. Malone won't be unemployed for very long.

[Puff]

You know who loves Brooks? Udoka loves Brooks… you know who loves VanVleet? Udoka loves VanVleet. You can’t rip out the backbone and expect to stand up right. Not with noodle spine Durant. Houston has an identity that matches their coach, tough and hard nosed. Seems Green is the odd man out and principal salary. He’s a ball dominant chucker and how does that mesh with KD? Sound familiar? Green will need to be shipped off to a third team if this deal ever comes to exist.

Furthermore, Phnx and Wishbia and all you delusional trade makers are going to be in for a big disappointment when you come to realize the Suns have virtually zero leverage in dealing KD. Zero. Especially once he packs his own bags. There are not but a few teams that will take him, and it won’t be hard to be the top bidder. Most of those teams are contenders with big payrolls and few assets. Minn has trash to give up. (actually, Randall might be the best player you can get for KD…whoopee) Miami has trash. SanAnt is not going to wreck their timeline and roster to accommodate an aging mercenary. They are a patient franchise on the brink of dominance. Your only hope is that OKC or Houston get in some kind of bidding war, when the truth is neither team absolutely needs KD. Just by saying Phnx wants a load for KD doesn’t make it happen. Acquiring him is an act of desperation at this point in his career. There won’t be an over pay like it took to get him. The same mistake won’t be repeated, no matter how hard you try to talk yourselves into it.

(Edited to be less offensive)

I am with you on this. I agree with your "Delusional Trade Makers" remarks. First of all, I doubt KD is worth even just the 10th pick in this draft. Why would Houston give that up in addition to 3 useful players on a team that already is a title contender and might actually win it this year, without KD. As far as the other suggested landing spots are concerned, they also would be dumb to give up their current and future assets, for a guy that will probably get injured in the next 3 years while they are paying him $180 million to acquire him? Our performance this year has only been respectable with KD on the court anyway. I do not see us getting better with any of the fantasy trades that have been offered up by the experts and this board.

The main issues with this team appear to be OK with a lot of these "Delusional Posters and experts". If Memphis can fire Jenkins and Denver can Fire Malone, we certainly can fire Bud. James Jones needs to be gone prior to the start of the off season as well. The first move that needs to be made is to either trade or waive Bradley Beal. After that is accomplished, we can move on to what to do with KD and Book. They are not our biggest problem. They are our most prized assets. In the end they could be moved but hopefully with a newly appointed GM and Coach in place to make those decisions.

[bwgood77]

20 years ago during the good ol times, we blew a game to the Warriors, but still, things were definitely looking up back then.

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[BobbieL]

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Even the players themselves acknowledge multiple factors leading to this downfall! Aside from the very obvious biggest factors complicit in this that they obviously can't discuss in Jones, Ishbia, Bartelstin, etc. But this is why the idea that some are still trying to promote around reloading things and somehow running it back is utterly pointless, delusional, and far outside the reality of our actual situation and projected outcome.

The best, most logical, and ultimately reasonable decision, absent emotion-laced madness, is unfortunately blowing it all up and rebuilding according to the actual successful blueprints of the most dominant top-tiered teams and the current climate of our league! Anything else is just unnecessarily compounding/prolonging an already losing and disappointing outcome.

And the ultimate in delusional would be either trading Beal - as it probably costs you assets you don't have or stretching him. Which just takes away cap space longer than 2027. And truly what player are you going to get with the MLE that will be such a difference maker that its worth it over paying some guy the vet minimum and just letting Beal expire in 2 years

Ishbia and some in the media are pushing for "Activity".. Meaning trade Durant, stretch Beal, sign a guy to the MLE and voila, instant contender for the ..........10th seed in the West. And without draft picks, it won't improve as you still have Beal counting so much of the cap through 2029. Might as well trade for PWill as at least you get something on the court.

Many on this board are pushing for "Accomplishment". Long term vision. Knowing there will be short-term pain. Knowing its not a guarantee by any means,. But at least it could be a path to success

[bwgood77]

Haven't been reading a lot of posts lately. Been concerned with things bigger than the Suns, however, I do agree I don't see Houston trading for KD, and if they did, it wouldn't likely be a ton. I could see them trading quite a bit for Book.

But who knows? Maybe they get Cooper Flagg. They are already a top team though and will only get better with time, if they keep their picks. If I were them zero chance I'd trade for KD.

[sunsbg]

Won't get what we gave for KD obviously though Ishbia could be delusional enough to think so. I mean 27 teams will exchange their roster for ours so why not. That said a few teams will be interested so hopefully we get a good offer. I'm still looking at a desperate team like Mavs more than a young team like Rockets.

[Puff]

Haven't been reading a lot of posts lately. Been concerned with things bigger than the Suns, however, I do agree I don't see Houston trading for KD, and if they did, it wouldn't likely be a ton. I could see them trading quite a bit for Book.

But who knows? Maybe they get Cooper Flagg. They are already a top team though and will only get better with time, if they keep their picks. If I were them zero chance I'd trade for KD.

Finaly a sensible look at a trade of KD to Houston. I think the ones that are being suggested by many are pure fantasy.

[BobbieL]

Haven't been reading a lot of posts lately. Been concerned with things bigger than the Suns, however, I do agree I don't see Houston trading for KD, and if they did, it wouldn't likely be a ton. I could see them trading quite a bit for Book.

But who knows? Maybe they get Cooper Flagg. They are already a top team though and will only get better with time, if they keep their picks. If I were them zero chance I'd trade for KD.

Finaly a sensible look at a trade of KD to Houston. I think the ones that are being suggested by many are pure fantasy.

I have always thought a good solid B for Durant was realistic. One young rotational player with good potential, cap filler, one FRP and maybe a second that is highly protected.

Which is why I advocate trading Booker as I still think he has some value around the league that can bring in more than Durant

Beal isn't bring in jack squat and it will probably cost you a FRP at that

[Calvin Klein]

First thing Zach Lowe says in his first podcast is how long he's been waiting to make fun of Mat Ishbia.

I listened to a lot of the podcast with - was it Howard Beck - -some guy named Beck

They were talking about why the Lakers are good since trading for Luka and why its worked quicker than he thought - his answer was simple "they have two of the best players in the league"

Hmm -- Durant and Booker haven't lifted the Suns. I get they aren't LeBron and Luka in terms of passing ability but come on, they should be better

Two batmans vs two robins

[Ghost of Kleine]

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I think these contracts might become an important consideration in KD trades, etc, when discussing the exchange of possible star/general salary value to potentially replace him, or in a package return cumulatively.

[Rebound Mound]

The difference, big difference, between acquiring Beal or KD two years ago was that they were good players who everybody thought could do better in particular environments.
24 months later they and we are in a desperate situation, them 2 years older, we with a sense of urgency to get rid of them and trying to give the impression around the league that they are worth a treasure...

At this point I could see the Bucks doing a desperate thing and acquiring KD for Kuzma and/or Portis, which I would probably do. If Houston gives us Jabari and a pick I would take it in a heartbit. Same thing with SAS if they would offer Castle and Barnes and a pick. Cannot see the Heat doing that kind os Stupid thing. With Ware, Adebayo, Herro and Robinson, plus Wiggins, they need Rozier leave and get a PG and a good bench big to go for a ran. Not an aging KD. And the assets we could get here ar close to nothing or would involve a SG we do not need.

I do not get what we could get for Beal. May be picks and expirings.

If that is the case, I would keep BDH for a year. Nobody better than him for a tanking season. It would be effortless.

If we go the quick reloading process, then Malone and Booth should be our men. Jenkins could be a great, great assistant to Malone.

[BobbieL]

The difference, big difference, between acquiring Beal or KD two years ago was that they were good players who everybody thought could do better in particular environments.
24 months later they and we are in a desperate situation, them 2 years older, we with a sense of urgency to get rid of them and trying to give the impression around the league that they are worth a treasure...

At this point I could see the Bucks doing a desperate thing and acquiring KD for Kuzma and/or Portis, which I would probably do. If Houston gives us Jabari and a pick I would take it in a heartbit. Same thing with SAS if they would offer Castle and Barnes and a pick. Cannot see the Heat doing that kind os Stupid thing. With Ware, Adebayo, Herro and Robinson, plus Wiggins, they need Rozier leave and get a PG and a good bench big to go for a ran. Not an aging KD. And the assets we could get here ar close to nothing or would involve a SG we do not need.

I do not get what we could get for Beal. May be picks and expirings.

If that is the case, I would keep BDH for a year. Nobody better than him for a tanking season. It would be effortless.

If we go the quick reloading process, then Malone and Booth should be our men. Jenkins could be a great, great assistant to Malone.

The Suns would have to GIVE picks for a team to take Beal. I came up with a trade with the Bulls - granted, not sure why they do it unless they want to offload PWill and even so - they have so many expirings in 2026 - it would be stupid
But it was
Huerter or Collins - expires in 2026
Jalen Smith - blast from the past - expires 2027
PWill - expires 2029

So a team like the Bulls - they would lose a lot of flexibility in 2026 since Vujevic, White, Huerter, Collins , even Lonzo (club option_ all expire in 2026

Other teams
Wizards - would they want to move off of Poole and Kispert to be done with Kispert a year early

Hornets to move off of Ball and Grant Williams-- would cost a draft pick

Philly - nope - not for Embiid - no way, no how

[BobbieL]

First thing Zach Lowe says in his first podcast is how long he's been waiting to make fun of Mat Ishbia.

I listened to a lot of the podcast with - was it Howard Beck - -some guy named Beck

They were talking about why the Lakers are good since trading for Luka and why its worked quicker than he thought - his answer was simple "they have two of the best players in the league"

Hmm -- Durant and Booker haven't lifted the Suns. I get they aren't LeBron and Luka in terms of passing ability but come on, they should be better

Two batmans vs two robins

Perfectly stated.

[lilfishi22]

Taylor Jenkins from Memphis
Now Mike Malone from the Nuggets

I think Malone is a good coach but until the GM is figured out and the roster is truly figured out - not sure the HC is the highest priority 

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Yeah as much as I would love a Jenkins or Malone, if the GM can't build a team that makes sense, is balanced and can be competitive, it's not setting the new coach up for success. The #1 priority this season (higher than moving KD/Beal imo) is to hire a high level GM who values every part of the job (ie not just pushing drafting aside) and is able to make a case to Ishbia that he'll listen to

[Ghost of Kleine]

The difference, big difference, between acquiring Beal or KD two years ago was that they were good players who everybody thought could do better in particular environments.
24 months later they and we are in a desperate situation, them 2 years older, we with a sense of urgency to get rid of them and trying to give the impression around the league that they are worth a treasure...

At this point I could see the Bucks doing a desperate thing and acquiring KD for Kuzma and/or Portis, which I would probably do. If Houston gives us Jabari and a pick I would take it in a heartbit. Same thing with SAS if they would offer Castle and Barnes and a pick. Cannot see the Heat doing that kind os Stupid thing. With Ware, Adebayo, Herro and Robinson, plus Wiggins, they need Rozier leave and get a PG and a good bench big to go for a ran. Not an aging KD. And the assets we could get here ar close to nothing or would involve a SG we do not need.

I do not get what we could get for Beal. May be picks and expirings.

If that is the case, I would keep BDH for a year. Nobody better than him for a tanking season. It would be effortless.

If we go the quick reloading process, then Malone and Booth should be our men. Jenkins could be a great, great assistant to Malone.

For Beal, if attaching picks to trade him, then the top 3 trades on my list would be:

1- Chicago.
Beal/ CLE 27' 1st for Ball/ Vucevic/ Huerter. ** I might even take back Williams in the deal to get Ball/ Vucevic. But would require at least a 2nd back to balance the value of taking back that long-term money.

2- Orlando.
Beal for Isaac/ KCP/ Bidatze/ Harris/ 7 million (expiring)/ ORL 25' 2nd (45th pick)???

3- Utah (**IF tanking! which it kind of appears they are) ............BOTH CLE 1sts back.
Beal/ 2 1sts for Markannen/ Mikhaliuk??

IF Beal wouldn't agree to go Utah, but would go back to Washington, then I'd do Beal and a 1st for Poole/ Smart/ DET 25' 2nd (47th pick).
If there was mutual interest in Sacramento, I'd do Beal/ 1st for Derozan/ Monk/ LaRavia/ CHI 25' 2nd (42nd pick)??

[lilfishi22]

First thing Zach Lowe says in his first podcast is how long he's been waiting to make fun of Mat Ishbia.

I listened to a lot of the podcast with - was it Howard Beck - -some guy named Beck

They were talking about why the Lakers are good since trading for Luka and why its worked quicker than he thought - his answer was simple "they have two of the best players in the league"

Hmm -- Durant and Booker haven't lifted the Suns. I get they aren't LeBron and Luka in terms of passing ability but come on, they should be better

Durant and Book are like the perfect chefs knives, when wielded by the right chef, they can COOK. When you have a line cook trying to create Michelin star dishes, it doesn't matter what pots, pans, knives or ingredients you got, you're going to get at best a sad imitation of that dish. Lebron and Luka's issue was a matter of if there would be too many cooks in the kitchen, they've figured it out and it's not an issue so now they got two elite chefs cooking and elevating otherwise rather average ingredients.

[lilfishi22]

Taylor Jenkins from Memphis
Now Mike Malone from the Nuggets

I think Malone is a good coach but until the GM is figured out and the roster is truly figured out - not sure the HC is the highest priority 

Read on Twitter

Wow, why they fired Mike Malone? That's a joke. The team is playing well enough and they have lost (over the last few years) multiple important role players...so IMO Malone was doing a nice job.

Ridiculous.

Malone has been dealt a rough hand by ownership for a few years now. He put in the time to develop and integrate guys who could really help the team and over that same time, ownership has put a mandate on cutting salary and saving tax where possible. They got rid of key guys like KCP, Bruce Brown, Reggie Jackson and to a lesser extent, Jeff Green. He's done a fantastic job keeping the team afloat, somehow figuring out how to maximise Westbrook of all players at this stage in his career and of course, developing Braun into a starting calibre player.

Malone has his faults, like every other coach in history but he's far from the problem.

[BobbieL]

The difference, big difference, between acquiring Beal or KD two years ago was that they were good players who everybody thought could do better in particular environments.
24 months later they and we are in a desperate situation, them 2 years older, we with a sense of urgency to get rid of them and trying to give the impression around the league that they are worth a treasure...

At this point I could see the Bucks doing a desperate thing and acquiring KD for Kuzma and/or Portis, which I would probably do. If Houston gives us Jabari and a pick I would take it in a heartbit. Same thing with SAS if they would offer Castle and Barnes and a pick. Cannot see the Heat doing that kind os Stupid thing. With Ware, Adebayo, Herro and Robinson, plus Wiggins, they need Rozier leave and get a PG and a good bench big to go for a ran. Not an aging KD. And the assets we could get here ar close to nothing or would involve a SG we do not need.

I do not get what we could get for Beal. May be picks and expirings.

If that is the case, I would keep BDH for a year. Nobody better than him for a tanking season. It would be effortless.

If we go the quick reloading process, then Malone and Booth should be our men. Jenkins could be a great, great assistant to Malone.

For Beal, if attaching picks to trade him, then the top 3 trades on my list would be:

1- Chicago.
Beal/ CLE 27' 1st for Ball/ Vucevic/ Huerter. ** I might even take back Williams in the deal to get Ball/ Vucevic. But would require at least a 2nd back to balance the value of taking back that long-term money.

2- Orlando.
Beal for Isaac/ KCP/ Bidatze/ Harris/ 7 million (expiring)/ ORL 25' 2nd (45th pick)???

3- Utah (**IF tanking! which it kind of appears they are) ............BOTH CLE 1sts back.
Beal/ 2 1sts for Markannen/ Mikhaliuk??

IF Beal wouldn't agree to go Utah, but would go back to Washington, then I'd do Beal and a 1st for Poole/ Smart/ DET 25' 2nd (47th pick).
If there was mutual interest in Sacramento, I'd do Beal/ 1st for Derozan/ Monk/ LaRavia/ CHI 25' 2nd (42nd pick)??

I just don't want to attach a pick to move Beal... doesn't make sense to me
And I truly don't see why the Bulls would take on $50m of cap for a FRP that isn't very good. I would rather have the cap space in 2025

ainge would be all ove rthat type of trade - giving MORE draft picks for a terrible contract in Markkanen
the best thing with Beal is just to ride it out until the summer of 2026