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Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion

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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1221 » by bwgood77 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:36 pm

dantley4prez wrote:I know this for sure: it's either going to be Denver or us. MAYBE Milwaukee, but I don't see the fit.

I don't see why I'd rather have TJ Warren's extended contract and Eric Bledsoe's extended contract in two years than Kyrie Irving. I'd rather have Kyrie Irving than those two. Eventually, as I said before, I think Cleveland will take it.


Have you offered it to them? Or are you just under the assumption that's exactly what the Suns have offered based on posts here?

I can't see them thinking "We'll be fine post Kyrie/LeBron" with Bledsoe and Warren as our key pieces to build around...oh, and a pick in the late teens. Cleveland fans (and especially their front office) would probably laugh at that offer far more than people here would laugh at a Jackson one.

I can see so many fans clamoring for Irving, that our fan base sees the fan excitement and relents with Jackson in the deal because of all the discussion, even though most here state they wouldn't trade for him.

Also, in two years I don't think we'd be better because I think Irving bolts (80% chance at least in my mind) and joins a team like the Spurs, Heat or Knicks like he wants to now.

Sticking a guy who's hit the winning shot in the finals on a team with a bunch of kids who can't drink is going to be a recipe for a 10th or 11th place in the west, not a great pick, no playoffs, and a guy who leaves for greener pastures.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1222 » by 8on » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:41 pm

Villalobos wrote:
dantley4prez wrote:I know this for sure: it's either going to be Denver or us. MAYBE Milwaukee, but I don't see the fit.

I don't see why I'd rather have TJ Warren's extended contract and Eric Bledsoe's extended contract in two years than Kyrie Irving. I'd rather have Kyrie Irving than those two. Eventually, as I said before, I think Cleveland will take it.


In two years Kyrie is probably taking his talents to South Beach or some other place.


I will say this: I'll be just as happy if it leaks that we're not chasing Kyrie anymore as I will if we get him, or if someone else gets him. I like the timeline a lot. I wouldn't be that opposed to keeping Warren especially and extending him. He could develop his 3 pt shot further, and the evidence suggests that he can already shoot 35% on open 3's.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1223 » by rsavaj » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:42 pm

GDFTony wrote:Please no Kyrie. He never impressed me before LeBron and says some of the most idiotic things off the court. I don't want someone who thinks the earth is flat running the team.


tbh the whole earth is flat thing actually makes me more hesitant than all of his stats
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1224 » by rsavaj » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:43 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
dantley4prez wrote:I know this for sure: it's either going to be Denver or us. MAYBE Milwaukee, but I don't see the fit.

I don't see why I'd rather have TJ Warren's extended contract and Eric Bledsoe's extended contract in two years than Kyrie Irving. I'd rather have Kyrie Irving than those two. Eventually, as I said before, I think Cleveland will take it.


Have you offered it to them? Or are you just under the assumption that's exactly what the Suns have offered based on posts here?

I can't see them thinking "We'll be fine post Kyrie/LeBron" with Bledsoe and Warren as our key pieces to build around...oh, and a pick in the late teens. Cleveland fans (and especially their front office) would probably laugh at that offer far more than people here would laugh at a Jackson one.

I can see so many fans clamoring for Irving, that our fan base sees the fan excitement and relents with Jackson in the deal because of all the discussion, even though most here state they wouldn't trade for him.

Also, in two years I don't think we'd be better because I think Irving bolts (80% chance at least in my mind) and joins a team like the Spurs, Heat or Knicks like he wants to now.

Sticking a guy who's hit the winning shot in the finals on a team with a bunch of kids who can't drink is going to be a recipe for a 10th or 11th place in the west, not a great pick, no playoffs, and a guy who leaves for greener pastures.


You're prob right. If McD trades JJ for Kyrie I'm gonna be pretty bummed.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1225 » by MHZ » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:45 pm

dantley4prez wrote:I know this for sure: it's either going to be Denver or us. MAYBE Milwaukee, but I don't see the fit.

I don't see why I'd rather have TJ Warren's extended contract and Eric Bledsoe's extended contract in two years than Kyrie Irving. I'd rather have Kyrie Irving than those two. Eventually, as I said before, I think Cleveland will take it.


Ha. It's the NBA. There are always teams lurking you don't expect.

One week from today:

"How the hell did Sam Presti turn Enes Kanter into Kyrie Irving, and why didn't Denver beat that offer?"
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1226 » by michaelscarn » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:45 pm

https://theringer.com/amp/p/1651bd0f0ad7

There are several reasons Phoenix would hesitate about pulling the trigger on a blockbuster deal. The first is that the list of teams Kyrie wants to play for doesn’t indicate a desire to lead a team. He would be a cog in the Spurs machine if he went to San Antonio, and no better than the third option in Minnesota behind Karl-Anthony Towns and Jimmy Butler. If his trade demand is more about getting out of Cleveland one step ahead of LeBron, the last thing he’s going to want is to move back to the bottom of the standings. While he’s under contract for three more seasons, he has a player option for Year 3, and acquiring him would put the entire franchise under the gun. The Suns would still be several years away from contending in the West, and they wouldn’t have much time to convince him to stay in Phoenix.

The bigger issue is that Kyrie hasn’t done much in the NBA on his own. The Cavs were terrible before LeBron returned, which isn’t Kyrie’s fault given how dysfunctional the franchise was, but he hasn’t had to do much heavy lifting in the past three years. While he’s one of the league’s best individual scorers, he has been able to hunt for his own shot without having to run the team or play much defense, and that won’t work as the veteran leader on a young team. Kyrie would have to set a positive example on the court and in the locker room, and he would have to occasionally sacrifice his own stats to make everyone else comfortable — exactly the kind of selflessness that he reportedly has had trouble dealing with during his time playing alongside LeBron. Booker and Jackson need to initiate some of the offense, while Chriss and Bender need a floor general who will get them the ball in the right place and the right time. If Kyrie dribbles the ball into the ground and does his best Russell Westbrook impression, it won’t take him long to alienate his new teammates.

Forget his gaudy per-game stats and highlight-reel plays from the NBA Finals. There are numbers that should really concern any team that trades for him. The Cavs were minus-120 in 635 minutes with Kyrie on and LeBron off last season, and nearly half of those minutes (312) came with Kevin Love. Tyronn Lue could hardly afford to take LeBron off the floor in the playoffs: Their net rating plummeted from plus-13.6 with him to minus-13.8 without him. The Cavs had three All-Stars, yet were as close to a one-man team as they could be. Kyrie ranked 40th in assist percentage and 71st in defensive RPM among NBA point guards, and if he couldn’t be bothered to play defense or share the ball when he was contending for a title, what is he going to do on a team that will struggle to crack .500? No matter how many points a backcourt of Kyrie and Booker score, they might give up just as many on the other end of the floor.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1227 » by 8on » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:49 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
dantley4prez wrote:I know this for sure: it's either going to be Denver or us. MAYBE Milwaukee, but I don't see the fit.

I don't see why I'd rather have TJ Warren's extended contract and Eric Bledsoe's extended contract in two years than Kyrie Irving. I'd rather have Kyrie Irving than those two. Eventually, as I said before, I think Cleveland will take it.


Have you offered it to them? Or are you just under the assumption that's exactly what the Suns have offered based on posts here?

I can't see them thinking "We'll be fine post Kyrie/LeBron" with Bledsoe and Warren as our key pieces to build around...oh, and a pick in the late teens. Cleveland fans (and especially their front office) would probably laugh at that offer far more than people here would laugh at a Jackson one.


It may be the best they can do. It's better than anything San Antonio or Minnesota or New York or Miami will offer. Every other team will have to take their chances, and Phoenix is a nice city. He could get used to the weather, the team, and the locale. Worst case scenario, we have Booker, Jackson, Bender and Chriss and cap space in 2019, and we're in the exact same position we're in now.

bwgood77 wrote:I can see so many fans clamoring for Irving, that our fan base sees the fan excitement and relents with Jackson in the deal because of all the discussion, even though most here state they wouldn't trade for him.

Also, in two years I don't think we'd be better because I think Irving bolts (80% chance at least in my mind) and joins a team like the Spurs, Heat or Knicks like he wants to now.

Sticking a guy who's hit the winning shot in the finals on a team with a bunch of kids who can't drink is going to be a recipe for a 10th or 11th place in the west, not a great pick, no playoffs, and a guy who leaves for greener pastures.


I honestly think we'll be a lot better in 2018-19. By the time Kyrie is getting ready to make his free agent decision, Chriss and Bender will have developed more and had (hopefully) two full seasons with him. If we find a way to dump salary we could end up with someone like a Boogie Cousins, or even Paul George. It makes a statement to the league that we're in the super team business, and it gives us a chance to rumble with the Warriors without giving up too much.

My whole philosophy is that Warren + Bledsoe < Kyrie. Kyrie and Booker could challenge the Splash Brothers. That could happen to US, for once. It's worth the risk.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1228 » by bwgood77 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:50 pm

MHZ wrote:
dantley4prez wrote:I know this for sure: it's either going to be Denver or us. MAYBE Milwaukee, but I don't see the fit.

I don't see why I'd rather have TJ Warren's extended contract and Eric Bledsoe's extended contract in two years than Kyrie Irving. I'd rather have Kyrie Irving than those two. Eventually, as I said before, I think Cleveland will take it.


Ha. It's the NBA. There are always teams lurking you don't expect.

One week from today:

"How the hell did Sam Presti turn Enes Kanter into Kyrie Irving, and why didn't Denver beat that offer?"


I think what they might end up getting is a bunch of picks and pick swaps like Boston got in the deal. Maybe from someone like the Knicks...along with Melo and Ntilikina or something.

OR

If the Kings report about them willing to trade Fox for him, they wait until George Hill is eligible for trade and possibly do a deal with those two and other filler or players. That gives the Cavs a solid vet PG who can hit the 3 at 40% who is perfect for LeBron now and the blue chip prospect for later.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1229 » by King4Day » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:52 pm

I have to think MCD realizes that trading JJ will hurt the lineup. A starting lineup of Irving, Booker, and Warren is a defensive nightmare. Sure they can score but you need some defense.
I'd rather just be a facilitator in a deal instead.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1230 » by 8on » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:53 pm

rsavaj wrote:
GDFTony wrote:Please no Kyrie. He never impressed me before LeBron and says some of the most idiotic things off the court. I don't want someone who thinks the earth is flat running the team.


tbh the whole earth is flat thing actually makes me more hesitant than all of his stats


I'm 100% certain that with the political stuff going on, with Alex Jones and Trump saying some of the things they've said in the last couple of years, it was a political point, i.e. "You can say anything these days."
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1231 » by 8on » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:55 pm

MHZ wrote:
dantley4prez wrote:I know this for sure: it's either going to be Denver or us. MAYBE Milwaukee, but I don't see the fit.

I don't see why I'd rather have TJ Warren's extended contract and Eric Bledsoe's extended contract in two years than Kyrie Irving. I'd rather have Kyrie Irving than those two. Eventually, as I said before, I think Cleveland will take it.


Ha. It's the NBA. There are always teams lurking you don't expect.

One week from today:

"How the hell did Sam Presti turn Enes Kanter into Kyrie Irving, and why didn't Denver beat that offer?"


Kyrie and Russ can't play together!

A lot of teams have established point guards. Going off that, and the teams that have assets to send, and the teams where Kyrie would have any chance of staying (or would take a chance on him staying), it's a short list in my view.

Bledsoe and TJ Is better than Kanter. That's why I think we're the favorites.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1232 » by GDFTony » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:56 pm

dantley4prez wrote:
rsavaj wrote:
GDFTony wrote:Please no Kyrie. He never impressed me before LeBron and says some of the most idiotic things off the court. I don't want someone who thinks the earth is flat running the team.


tbh the whole earth is flat thing actually makes me more hesitant than all of his stats


I'm 100% certain that with the political stuff going on, with Alex Jones and Trump saying some of the things they've said in the last couple of years, it was a political point, i.e. "You can say anything these days."



I wish that were the case and it's entirely possible but I haven't seen anything to refute that he actually believes that. I love conspiracy theories and I don't think believing in them make you stupid but I just don't get the flat earth concept Who is hiding it from us and how are they profiting off of it? What's the benefit? If your starting PG is actually thinking that the earth is flat (besides the fact you can buy a mylar balloon and a go pro to prove yourself wrong) then imagine how mature/intelligent he would be running an offense or leading a team or trying to command a locker room?

No thank you.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1233 » by 8on » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:58 pm

GDFTony wrote:
dantley4prez wrote:
rsavaj wrote:
tbh the whole earth is flat thing actually makes me more hesitant than all of his stats


I'm 100% certain that with the political stuff going on, with Alex Jones and Trump saying some of the things they've said in the last couple of years, it was a political point, i.e. "You can say anything these days."



I wish that were the case and it's entirely possible but I haven't seen anything to refute that he actually believes that. I love conspiracy theories and I don't think believing in them make you stupid but I just don't get the flat earth concept Who is hiding it from us and how are they profiting off of it? What's the benefit? If your starting PG is actually thinking that the earth is flat (besides the fact you can buy a mylar balloon and a go pro to prove yourself wrong) then imagine how mature/intelligent he would be running an offense or leading a team or trying to command a locker room?

No thank you.


To me, it's much more likely that he was making a subtweeted political point than that he believes something we've known not to be true for, like, 500 years.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1234 » by gaspar » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:02 pm

Read on Twitter


I think the Knicks odds are only that high because there's a lot of dumb fans who will bet on them :lol:
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1235 » by SSOL » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:04 pm

dantley4prez wrote:
GDFTony wrote:
dantley4prez wrote:
I'm 100% certain that with the political stuff going on, with Alex Jones and Trump saying some of the things they've said in the last couple of years, it was a political point, i.e. "You can say anything these days."



I wish that were the case and it's entirely possible but I haven't seen anything to refute that he actually believes that. I love conspiracy theories and I don't think believing in them make you stupid but I just don't get the flat earth concept Who is hiding it from us and how are they profiting off of it? What's the benefit? If your starting PG is actually thinking that the earth is flat (besides the fact you can buy a mylar balloon and a go pro to prove yourself wrong) then imagine how mature/intelligent he would be running an offense or leading a team or trying to command a locker room?

No thank you.


To me, it's much more likely that he was making a subtweeted political point than that he believes something we've known not to be true for, like, 500 years.


He hat stated he did it to clown on the media.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1236 » by gaspar » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:05 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:So... why isn't the discussion Kyrie for IT and stuff?

Because it would never happen. They're direct rivals and IT could actually be better in Kyrie's role alongside LeBron.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1237 » by Phystic » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:10 pm

SlovenianDragon wrote:Eric Bledsoe 21/5/6

Kyrie Irving 25/3/6

Why would anyone think that we would get so much better with Irving is beyond me they pretty much do the same thing. Not only that but people are saying to throw in Warren who is a good player. So therefore if that trade went down statistically we would get worse. And then just to **** all over the suns throw a pick in there as well....

gtfoooooooooooooooooo


I'm surprised how many people seem to think Bledsoe is on Irving's level. Looking at numbers to come up with your conclusion is a risky choice. Irving is light years ahrad of Bledsoe offensively, and despite Bledsoe definitely being better defensively, Bledsoe has slipped considerably in his defensive chops. Hes not the lock down defender he was once touted to be.

Dont get me wrong, Bledsoe is a nice player. But he is not the caliber of Irving. And its really not close. Keep in mind Irving was playing alot side one of the most ball dominant players in the league.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1238 » by TeamTragic » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:14 pm

ray ray wrote:What do you guys think of this trade...

Cavs get: Eric Bledsoe, TJ Warren and Miami's 1st round pick (possibly more)
Kings get: Kyrie Irving
Suns get: De'Aaron Fox

Not a rumor or something that's being talked about.. just seeing if it's something that the Suns fan base likes


Not a bad deal. If we just want to make a deal. I really value Warren and don't see McD trading him.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1239 » by blee732 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:22 pm

GoranTragic wrote:
ray ray wrote:What do you guys think of this trade...

Cavs get: Eric Bledsoe, TJ Warren and Miami's 1st round pick (possibly more)
Kings get: Kyrie Irving
Suns get: De'Aaron Fox

Not a rumor or something that's being talked about.. just seeing if it's something that the Suns fan base likes


Not a bad deal. If we just want to make a deal. I really value Warren and don't see McD trading him.

+1 to that. It's not bad, but not the right move for us. I think Kings clearly win that deal at our expense, but I wouldn't mind having Fox to maintain our Wildcat collection. For it to happen, I think the Kings need to give up something to us.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#1240 » by gaspar » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:32 pm

Read on Twitter


eww

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