Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[Qwigglez]

23/21/21/24/20

Age of our starting lineup for the rest of the season !!!

Yeah but this time next season if we roll out the same lineup they will be 24/22/22/25/21. A little too old if you ask me. #Tank4YouthMovement

[BobbieL]

As some have suggested, 3 years 7mil per with a team option the 3rd year.
That'd give him some security and a chance to really prove himself.

The way of it for Payton - and I might even be willing to give him the option in year 3 - if the price is 7-8m

He gets two years to prove himself and if he does great - he opts out. But the Suns get at least two years - through the end of the Knight deal - with Payton on a good contract.

[Sunsdeuce]

Crazy how some fans automatically hate Payton and talk crap about his hair .

Y’all are pathetic . Dude looked good and I liked how he ran the offense !

Weird, haven’t see any “hateful” comments. I would prefer he cut the hair for simply court vision purposes. Other than that I could care less about his hair.

[bwoolf2]

I would really like to see them give this team one more year together with a real PG in place like Payton seems to be before we make any major free agent acquisitions. Adding a big Free agent isnt going to make us a Championship contender and will just eat up cap space going forward. Get BPA in the draft and let the core have one year with a real coach (maybe Triano maybe not) and a real PG and go from there 2019 we have more of a chance to lure someone here anyways rather than overspend on a mid player, ie Avery Bradley.... btw whos minutes does he take?

[hollywood6964]

Also, your response still doesn't address who the Suns go after this summer. We need to make an improvement at PG and/or C while our SG/SF/PF positions continue to grow. Who do you see?

Unless we are giving up on Bender and Chriss. Then we need a PF too and there aren't any outstanding free agents at that position either.

If we draft a frontcourt player I would like to get Avery Bradley on a three year deal. Wayne Ellington is another good option to improve our depth if Elfrid plays really well and we like him as our starting PG.

If we draft Trae or Doncic (my favourite scenario) I would love to get Capela from the Rockets. I would offer the max. If they match I would try to sign Randle and play him at C next to Bender/Chriss.

The only reason why Capela looks good is because he has 2 good PGs( Paul and Harden).I'm not buying the whole hype about him.

Me either, classic system player. If he played his whole career, or a good portion of it, he'd fool his way into the Hall of Fame. Like some Spurs players I can think are going to. Or now some gsw players.

Point is he's got some talent, in the right situation he can look really good, playing a role. But I wouldn't pay too much for him. 10 mil a season, max, or you'll be disappointed.

[bwoolf2]

If we draft a frontcourt player I would like to get Avery Bradley on a three year deal. Wayne Ellington is another good option to improve our depth if Elfrid plays really well and we like him as our starting PG.

If we draft Trae or Doncic (my favourite scenario) I would love to get Capela from the Rockets. I would offer the max. If they match I would try to sign Randle and play him at C next to Bender/Chriss.

The only reason why Capela looks good is because he has 2 good PGs( Paul and Harden).I'm not buying the whole hype about him.

Me either, classic system player. If he played his whole career, or a good portion of it, he'd fool his way into the Hall of Fame. Like some Spurs players I can think are going to. Or now some gsw players.

Point is he's got some talent, in the right situation he can look really good, playing a role. But I wouldn't pay too much for him. 10 mil a season, max, or you'll be disappointed.

Why would we Max Capela he is a 5, Bender is clearly best suited to be a 5 in this league and by the time he is the same age as Capela is now he will be the superior player.

[hollywood6964]

The only reason why Capela looks good is because he has 2 good PGs( Paul and Harden).I'm not buying the whole hype about him.

Me either, classic system player. If he played his whole career, or a good portion of it, he'd fool his way into the Hall of Fame. Like some Spurs players I can think are going to. Or now some gsw players.

Point is he's got some talent, in the right situation he can look really good, playing a role. But I wouldn't pay too much for him. 10 mil a season, max, or you'll be disappointed.

Why would we Max Capela he is a 5, Bender is clearly best suited to be a 5 in this league and by the time he is the same age as Capela is now he will be the superior player.

Completely different type of player though. I'd rather have cappella at the 5, especially right now... But I don't think dragic will be able to bang with the big boys, he's better suited at the 4 on a nightly basis.

[Qwigglez]

I would really like to see them give this team one more year together with a real PG in place like Payton seems to be before we make any major free agent acquisitions. Adding a big Free agent isnt going to make us a Championship contender and will just eat up cap space going forward. Get BPA in the draft and let the core have one year with a real coach (maybe Triano maybe not) and a real PG and go from there 2019 we have more of a chance to lure someone here anyways rather than overspend on a mid player, ie Avery Bradley.... btw whos minutes does he take?

I'd like to see us make some sort of major acquisition thus summer via free agency or trade. Problem with free agency is most guys play a position we have covered. No longer interested as much in Boogie with that injury.
Anyhow if we are planning on making moves next off-season then Book will need to be convinced to wait on his max extension til 2019. Kawhi did that, where he was a RFA but didn't actually take calls from other teams, simply allowed the Spurs to make plays in free agency before signing. If Book does this, then we will be set. If not, then we need to make moves this summer or use the 2021 Miami 1st and our future 1st packaged with Chriss and expiring of Chandler/Dudley to wheel some deals.
Either way the next year and a half will be pivotal.

[Qwigglez]

Another thing I would be interested in is giving someone a fat one year contract like Redick got. Maybe to Len for $15Mil and then combine that with Chandler and Dudley and we got $38mil in expiring contracts that a team ready to blow up may be interested in acquiring.

[BobbieL]

I would really like to see them give this team one more year together with a real PG in place like Payton seems to be before we make any major free agent acquisitions. Adding a big Free agent isnt going to make us a Championship contender and will just eat up cap space going forward. Get BPA in the draft and let the core have one year with a real coach (maybe Triano maybe not) and a real PG and go from there 2019 we have more of a chance to lure someone here anyways rather than overspend on a mid player, ie Avery Bradley.... btw whos minutes does he take?

I'd like to see us make some sort of major acquisition thus summer via free agency or trade. Problem with free agency is most guys play a position we have covered. No longer interested as much in Boogie with that injury.
Anyhow if we are planning on making moves next off-season then Book will need to be convinced to wait on his max extension til 2019. Kawhi did that, where he was a RFA but didn't actually take calls from other teams, simply allowed the Spurs to make plays in free agency before signing. If Book does this, then we will be set. If not, then we need to make moves this summer or use the 2021 Miami 1st and our future 1st packaged with Chriss and expiring of Chandler/Dudley to wheel some deals.
Either way the next year and a half will be pivotal.

Absent Paul George -- I would like to see dollars spent via trade, free agency, sign & trade for player making something like 15 to 18m. I don't see a max player out there - absent George. Boogie probably staying in New Orleans. I have no idea who that player is. Sometimes I think Love - only two years left - if Cleveland changes things with LeBron possibly leaving.

Maybe it is as Qwigg said - a guy on a one year deal that keeps you cap flexible in 2019 but improves your team in 2018. The Suns can get money - -just have to be sure they keep in mind 2019 and that means keeping certain guys (TC, JD, Troy, Sauce) so they expire and hopefully using Lens money, Payton sign for 7-8m, Ulis, and other assets as trade pieces this summer

Need to see a lot more of Payton to see if he is a potential for longer term too

[bigfoot]

Another thing I would be interested in is giving someone a fat one year contract like Redick got. Maybe to Len for $15Mil and then combine that with Chandler and Dudley and we got $38mil in expiring contracts that a team ready to blow up may be interested in acquiring.

This is the right thing to do ... then we can give up the expiring contracts and future draft picks for someone like Love if Lebron bolts next year. Love and Bender at the 4/5 would be pretty good for floor spacing.

[AtheJ415]

Crazy how some fans automatically hate Payton and talk crap about his hair .

Y’all are pathetic . Dude looked good and I liked how he ran the offense !

so people judge someone because of their appearance and you judge those people based on their freedom to express their opinion. I hate white knights and SJWs in general, but you're just better off not making comments. And yes, I do see the irony of this post... as I'm commenting on a comment I disagree with...

I am commenting because as a suns fan it pisses me off that a lot of posters aren’t giving dude a shot !

He already almost had a double double and close to a triple double days after joining the team.

Y’all wanna cry about his hair. Let the dude play his game!

We got a steal with this trade

Yeah. I don't think the bolded is accurate at all. I am on the record as both liking the deal, liking him during the draft, and also thinking he should cut it.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I wonder if Ryan's "we'll be aggressive in FA" talk was in part to scare a team with one of these RFAs into trading the player away. It was no secret that we liked Elfrid in the 2014 draft. He stood out as an option when looking at 2018 RFA targets. We may just have made our biggest summer acquisition. [Very] early returns are [very] good. Personally, I enjoyed Elf's first game in a Suns uni more than I've enjoyed any PG's game in Phoenix since Nash left. I'm not saying he was as good as Dragic, Bledsoe or even Knight were in each game they ever played. I'm saying it was real nice to remember what a pass-first PG looks like.

The only players I saw McD potentially maneuvering for this summer other than Elf and the other PGs on the market were Capela and potentially Jordan. Jordan I saw as somewhat of a long shot because of the duplication with Chandler - we would need to send Tyson and a first to LAC to make that happen, I thought. But if we add another big via the draft (and with Bender looking like a capable 4/5), what is the point?

Where we could really shore things up is the back-up wing spots. Daniels is dumb. A flamethrower who somehow is unable to keep his hands off of a guy when he's throwing it up from downtown. Reed hasn't shown anything. Dudley is barely fast enough to guard 5s, let alone 3s. We need to focus on grabbing a rotation quality 2/3 to bolster the bench (Anderson, Barton, Mbah a Moute, McCaw, Ellington?). Throw 10 pounds on Josh, lock Elfrid into a fair, market contract (depending on play, between $8-$10 mil per, IMO), show Len and Ulis the door, draft Ayton if you can, and run it out:

Payton/Knight/[Rookie]
Booker/Barton/Daniels
Jackson/Warren/Reed
Bender/Chriss/Dudley
Ayton/Chandler/Williams

*Rotation players in bold.

If we can hold off on extending Booker until the summer, we could eschew Dudley and Chandler and use that cap space to sign a big FA in 2019. The question again, though, becomes - who goes to the bench? Shouldn't we just stay the course?

I guess all I'm saying is that if Payton works out, we have five core pieces confirmed. If we hit on the player we draft this summer, that's six. If Chriss takes a step, that's seven. At some point it gets hard to see what needs to be added.

If we draft a guy like Porter, Young or Doncic, trading for Jordan might make sense as a way to expedite the timeline. But if we land Ayton, there may not be much left to do other than sit back and watch the team develop!

[AtheJ415]

Why would we want to pay Deandre what he will get at his age? He is on the downside of his career and thus will likely end up overpaid.

[bigfoot]

I wonder if Ryan's "we'll be aggressive in FA" talk was in part to scare a team with one of these RFAs into trading the player away. It was no secret that we liked Elfrid in the 2014 draft. He stood out as an option when looking at 2018 RFA targets. We may just have made our biggest summer acquisition. [Very] early returns are [very] good. Personally, I enjoyed Elf's first game in a Suns uni more than I've enjoyed any PG's game in Phoenix since Nash left. I'm not saying he was as good as Dragic, Bledsoe or even Knight were in each game they ever played. I'm saying it was real nice to remember what a pass-first PG looks like.

The only players I saw McD potentially maneuvering for this summer other than Elf and the other PGs on the market were Capela and potentially Jordan. Jordan I saw as somewhat of a long shot because of the duplication with Chandler - we would need to send Tyson and a first to LAC to make that happen, I thought. But if we add another big via the draft (and with Bender looking like a capable 4/5), what is the point?

Where we could really shore things up is the back-up wing spots. Daniels is dumb. A flamethrower who somehow is unable to keep his hands off of a guy when he's throwing it up from downtown. Reed hasn't shown anything. Dudley is barely fast enough to guard 5s, let alone 3s. We need to focus on grabbing a rotation quality 2/3 to bolster the bench (Anderson, Barton, Mbah a Moute, McCaw, Ellington?). Throw 10 pounds on Josh, lock Elfrid into a fair, market contract (depending on play, between $8-$10 mil per, IMO), show Len and Ulis the door, draft Ayton if you can, and run it out:

Payton/Knight/[Rookie]
Booker/Barton/Daniels
Jackson/Warren/Reed
Bender/Chriss/Dudley
Ayton/Chandler/Williams

*Rotation players in bold.

If we can hold off on extending Booker until the summer, we could eschew Dudley and Chandler and use that cap space to sign a big FA in 2019. The question again, though, becomes - who goes to the bench? Shouldn't we just stay the course?

I guess all I'm saying is that if Payton works out, we have five core pieces confirmed. If we hit on the player we draft this summer, that's six. If Chriss takes a step, that's seven. At some point it gets hard to see what needs to be added.

If we draft a guy like Porter, Young or Doncic, trading for Jordan might make sense as a way to expedite the timeline. But if we land Ayton, there may not be much left to do other than sit back and watch the team develop!

We are already loaded with talent at the wing with Booker, Jackson, and Warren. No need to go chase a free agent at that position. Minutes between the three we have Booker 36+ at SG, Jackson 12 SG and 24 SF, and Warren 24 SF and 12 PF. If you want to shore up something in free agency it needs to be at the PF/C or PG position depending how we draft. Obviously Payton and Knight cover the PG position well if Payton is signed this summer. So look at PF and C as the FA position of need.

Honestly, we need to run Bender at the 5. It is a tremendous advantage for us to pull rim protecting centers out to the three point line. I would say we need to find a three point shooting, rim protecting, and rebounding PF in either the draft or free agency or both. That would definitely open up the inside for layup drills by Booker, Warren, and Payton. The draft looks to have a couple of PFs who meet that criteria. Getting an older free agent with a slightly declining skillset to allow time for the young player to adjust would be ideal. Just sign them for a year and we should be good.

[NavLDO]

this is what I'm hoping for this summer.

- Draft Ayton
- Trade Chriss/bender + bucks pick + Knight/chandler for Kevin Love
- Get a solid backup PG

Payton / ?
Booker/ Daniels
Jackson/TJ
Love/Bender
Ayton/Williams

One time!!!

The problem with this is that love is well out of the timeline and he is already slowing down a great deal. You might get some development time with him from as the rest of the team learned what it takes to win in the playoffs but then he would be gone and we would be short a power forward.

YES! I'm so tired of this always next year and get better pick culture that we have adapted to. If Love can be the X factor to get this team to playoffs and get the other players to understand what making the playoffs means I'll happily sacrifice Chriss and a pick. If we're a playoffs team and Love walks the year after we're in good position to sign another good player to continue to compete.

That line of thinking is banned around here, alpha, don't you know that!

I mean, get this...we just spent a 2nd Rd pick on a PG, Payton, who DOES fit our timeline, is likely better than anyone we'd be able to draft with that 2nd Rd pick, and you have fans here that are upset. Why? Because he's going to make the team better.

Feel free to read my rant in the Spoiler, if anyone so chooses, otherwise...

Spoiler:

Why? Because they think we ruined our chance to get a higher pick, so we can draft a particular PG prospect, someone who's never played in the NBA, and was on no one's radar 3 months ago.

They won't tell you that he's only shot 35.9% from College 3 in his last dozen games (47/131), or his questionable defense which is starting to really come to light...

There's a reason why now, since his meteoric rise to #1 on some boards, he's cooling off to #5-7, or lower, in the last week, after his last 3 outings.

So, we're upset because we brought in a former Top 10 pick, 24-YO PG, who's showing to be the best in his class, or 2nd best, depending on how you feel about Marcus Smart, anyway, we are upset, because he is going to make our team better, which will prevent us from drafting a potentially better prospect, that we aren't even sure will pan out in the NBA, and oh, we don't even know how the ping pong balls will bounce.

So, to even consider bringing in ANOTHER body, that might make us even better certainly isn't going to popular, either, because that will REALLY mess up our chances for the 2019 Draft. I mean, that kinda of move might push us out of the Lottery all-together.

...I move on to the topic at hand...(Seriously though, I need to tone down my snarkiness.)

Anyway, I'm not a huge Love fan at this point, and would personally choose to go after a different talent this Summer. I would like to see a couple of things first.

One, I'd like to see we bring in via the draft first, to see where our needs lay, but would presume a 'Big' wouldn't hurt, which leads to #2...

Two, I'd like to see what effect Payton has on our team all-together. How does Reed do, now that he's healthy and in the lineup? Do we need another SG?? PG?? Does Chriss AND Bender show promise to the point where we want to keep them both, and concentrate on getting a Center? Are we going to play Bender more as a Stretch 5, or the more traditional Stretch 4 role? How does Reed do now that he's in the line-up? do we need another SG? Did we get a PG in the Draft? Did Elf get snatched up in RFA?

I'd rather our needs dictate our FA, rather than our FA selection dictate our needs, if that makes any sense. I don't want to bring in a player just because he's available and popular; I'd rather McD target a high-level player because he fits what we are building.

[NTB]

Read on Twitter

[Frank Lee]

I think McD has said he would be aggressive in Free Agency each and every year.

[Kerrsed]

I think McD has said he would be aggressive in Free Agency each and every year.

He did and He has.

Every Free Agency we pretty much have disregarded the ordinary players and always tried to land the Big Fish. From Lebron to Aldridge to Griffin, we always try to land one of the top FA's and seem to have come close.

[Bogyo]

I think McD has said he would be aggressive in Free Agency each and every year.

Now he has some tools, and a couple good selling points.
I mean in the offseason Tyson, Duds, Daniels are expiring contracts. We have a very high, and a 20ish pick, plus three 2nd rounders. We have an elite young scorer on one of the best contracts in the league in TJ. We have a very athletic young guy who shows flashes of his talent (with some other dumb stuff) in Chriss. We also have the Milwaukee pick, the 2021 Miami pick and all of our picks going forward. We have at least 20 mill of cap space, without trading away any of the Tyson/Duds/Daniels contracts.
You can get agressive with that as much as you want, especially when you have Booker/JJ/Bender as selling points for other young players (stars) to come and join the fun.

*disclaimer: I'm not advocating trading TJ, but if we REALLY want to be agressive in the offseason, we might have to give up somebody of real value to get an all star back. I think the most realistic scenarios have TJ going out, with a couple of picks, maybe an expiring, maybe Chriss, some combination of these, depending on who is coming back.
(pipedream/never happens, but somewhat realistic if they blow it up: our first+Milwaukee pick(s)+our 2nd +Torontos 2nd+TJ+Chriss+Tyson for AD)