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2020 Offseason Speculation, free agency, summer trades (keep draft prospect talk in draft thread)

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

Would you prefer a regular season from Christmas to late June and playoffs late June to late August?

Yes, move season back
30
73%
No, leave as is
11
27%
 
Total votes: 41

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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1221 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:58 am

Airseven wrote:Suns problems are institutional. Nitpicking most of these players is rather pointless.

One main issue is they’re on their second incompetent GM in a row. Passing on Colby White for Cam and Saric is inexcusable and indefensible. And you don’t have to hide behind the draft’s “too early to say” canned excuse. It was a wretched move the moment it was announced. Jones is in over his head.

The other issue is building around Booker. Every move is seen through the prism of getting Booker the support he needs. And it’s lapped up by a soft media and desperate fanbase. Booker is never leading the Suns to a playoff contender. He’s not a star. Continuing to position him as a viable centerpiece undermines the entire building effort.
Are you implying that Lance Blanks was a competent GM?

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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1222 » by bwgood77 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:23 am

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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1223 » by ATTL » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:53 am

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Glad they decided to watch film and get better together. Still need to work on it, they aren't close to the nash-Amare roll but hopefully get close next year.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1224 » by Kerrsed » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:26 am

Wilber85 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:
What happened to our medical staff? We went from people wanting to come here , and people saying our medical staff is the best, to having our players out 50% of the season


This will be Kelly's third missed game this season.

:roll:


Did I say Kelly? Said our players. Is this your first year following the suns? Do you even recall the years we bragged highly of our medical staff?

How many total games had , Kaminsky, Baynes, Saric, Johnson missed? Thats core of our bench


Well Arron Nelson went to New Orleans this past Summer to join Gentry. Dont know why he decided to leave after being with the Suns for 26 years, but Griffin is definitely partially to blame.

There’s been much discussion about the Pelicans sharing a football built medical staff for years and most of it negative. Titles like this Deadspin article: Report: “Football Guys” have broken the Pelicans and may scare Anthony Davis away add to the list of reasons why many pegged the Pelicans as an incompetently run basketball franchise. However, Griffin is looking to go where no one before him has and change the perception that several will call a reality.

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That point man, the Suns head athletic trainer Aaron Nelson, is one of the most respected names in the business. Nelson has been with the Suns for 19 years and has a plethora of references for how well his training staff has operated. Those physical examples of rehabilitation and prevention include the likes of Grant Hill, Steve Nash, Amar’e Stoudemire, and Shaquille O’Neal among many others.

Plucking Nelson would be a major coup for a organization looking to change every poor breathing element and detail inside their doors. You’ve heard noise about the Pelicans wanting to take action like this before, but they never fell through.


I have no idea why we would give him permission to talk to Nelson. That was the one thing we had on lockdown, the absolute best medical trainer in the league, but we let him go.....probably for more money. If you have the time, watch the 30for30 about him, its great. He's a small clip:

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Funny thing is when he left the Suns tried to kinda cover it up with an announcement that they were all proud of, and that was teaming up with EXOS......but havent heard **** about it since.

The Suns are undergoing a complete evaluation of their basketball operations, including working with world-class healthcare provider, Steward, as well as human performance company, EXOS, on the team’s medical and performance efforts.

The team is leveraging its partnership with Steward, including its national network of physicians and specialists, to add depth and experience to the club’s medical operations this offseason. The Steward team includes experts in primary care sports medicine, orthopedic surgery, physical therapy, athletic training, sports psychology, and more, which the Suns will utilize to advance the team’s efforts.

In addition, the Suns are partnering with EXOS on a new collaboration that will support an expansion of the team’s efforts in the sustainable high performance space. Headquartered in Phoenix and renowned globally for helping athletes unlock potential while reducing injuries, EXOS builds customized player performance programs and provides the tools and resources to ensure teams have useful data, insights and expert guidance. More details will be announced in the near future.


EXOS Sports is primarily known for their work with NFL players. Someone from Suns Twitter called them out on this like last week too.

As for our actual medical/training staff:

Brady Howe was announced as the Senior Director of Player Health and Performance. He is a former member of the Atlanta Hawks training staff and the director of athletic performance for the Utah Jazz’s G League affiliates.

Howe is among nine members the Suns announced Friday.

David Crewe, who spent last year as the head athletic trainer for the Memphis Grizzlies and spent eight with the Minnesota Timberwolves, was named the Director of Medical Services and Head Athletic Trainer.

Daniel Bove, who was the Suns’ director of performance last year, retained his position.

The other members of the staff are Director of Rehabilitation Adam Loiacono, Head Strength and Conditioning Coach Cory Schlesinger, Assistant Athletic Trainer Frank Adams, Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coach Jeff Dolan, Sport Scientist/Assistant Strength Coach Kohei Tamagawa and Performance Therapist Amy Atmore.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1225 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:31 am

ATTL wrote:
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Glad they decided to watch film and get better together. Still need to work on it, they aren't close to the nash-Amare roll but hopefully get close next year.

Need Booker and Ayton to get in a room to watch film together too. They don't have very good chemistry and when the defense is crowding Ayton a little more than usual, Booker just isn't able to find an avenue to get the ball to Ayton safely. Rubio on the other hand moves defenses around (even without a 3PT threat) to open things up for Ayton and generally delivers a good pass to him.

Booker just needs to get better with passing. He hesitates a lot and the window to pass closes too quickly which just forces him to either take a contested shot or have to pass it out.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1226 » by nevetsov » Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:52 pm

Returning:
Ayton
Booker
Bridges
Rubio
Jerome
Johnson
Kaminsky (cheap option)
Diallo (cheap option)
Lecque (cheap option)

Gone:
Oubre (trade due pending extension $)
Baynes (Utah FA?)
Saric (tba FA)
Carter (upgraded backup PG acquired)
Okobo (traded/ cut)
Harper (cut)
Owens (cut or NAZ 2 way)
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1227 » by Wilber85 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:30 pm

nevetsov wrote:Returning:
Ayton
Booker
Bridges
Rubio
Jerome
Johnson
Kaminsky (cheap option)
Diallo (cheap option)
Lecque (cheap option)

Gone:
Oubre (trade due pending extension $)
Baynes (Utah FA?)
Saric (tba FA)
Carter (upgraded backup PG acquired)
Okobo (traded/ cut)
Harper (cut)
Owens (cut or NAZ 2 way)


Suns need to keep Saric as Back up 4/5
Sign another Big to play back up 5
draft a PG in the draft

Stay healthy and no suspensions!
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1228 » by RunDogGun » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:52 pm

nevetsov wrote:Returning:
Ayton
Booker
Bridges
Rubio
Jerome
Johnson
Kaminsky (cheap option)
Diallo (cheap option)
Lecque (cheap option)

Gone:
Oubre (trade due pending extension $)
Baynes (Utah FA?)
Saric (tba FA)
Carter (upgraded backup PG acquired)
Okobo (traded/ cut)
Harper (cut)
Owens (cut or NAZ 2 way)

We can't extend Oubre. He has one year left on his contract. Unless we get a player that can produce better than 18/6 with 1.4 steals per game, It seems like a bad idea to move him. I don't know why everyone wants him gone though. He is a solid two way player, and plays with heart every game.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1229 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:55 pm

I'm guessing Oubre has a torn meniscus. That a type of knee injury where you explore 'opions'. You can get it trimmed or removed with a short recovery but potential issues later or get it repaired with a longer recovery but less potential issues later. Now sometimes the issue is in a spot where the repair isn't possible.

If Kelly can have it repaired he should probably go that route and that would mean he'll miss the rest of the season.

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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1230 » by RunDogGun » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:04 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:I'm guessing Oubre has a torn meniscus. That a type of knee injury where you explore 'opions'. You can get it trimmed or removed with a short recovery but potential issues later or get it repaired with a longer recovery but less potential issues later. Now sometimes the issue is in a spot where the repair isn't possible.

If Kelly can have it repaired he should probably go that route and that would mean he'll miss the rest of the season.

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Well that sucks. As we can see from last night, we will miss his points and cuts to the basket. It would be great if Cam can step up, but I just don't know which bench player can step it up to fill the gap.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1231 » by Scutt » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:19 pm

RunDogGun wrote:
nevetsov wrote:Returning:
Ayton
Booker
Bridges
Rubio
Jerome
Johnson
Kaminsky (cheap option)
Diallo (cheap option)
Lecque (cheap option)

Gone:
Oubre (trade due pending extension $)
Baynes (Utah FA?)
Saric (tba FA)
Carter (upgraded backup PG acquired)
Okobo (traded/ cut)
Harper (cut)
Owens (cut or NAZ 2 way)

We can't extend Oubre. He has one year left on his contract. Unless we get a player that can produce better than 18/6 with 1.4 steals per game, It seems like a bad idea to move him. I don't know why everyone wants him gone though. He is a solid two way player, and plays with heart every game.


I can only speak for me personally, but I want Oubre gone because he seems unwilling to play within the offense, is super inconsistent, and lacks good basketball IQ. Long-term, I don't think Ayton can reach his offensive potential when playing next to two selfish players in Booker and Oubre, so one of them needs to go. Booker is putting up 26 points a game, efficiently, and at least tries to pass to Ayton occasionally, so it's clear who the odd man out is.

Bridges is the opposite of Oubre, a high IQ basketball player who plays under control, always makes the extra pass, and can be relied upon to to do the right thing. But he doesn't blow kisses, do push ups, and head bob like Kelly, so fans don't like him. Bridges is the better fit at small forward next to Ayton and Booker.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1232 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:39 pm

We're probably about to find out how they look without Kelly. I think they might miss him more than some here seem to believe.

Personally I don't think it's at Kelly or Bridges thing, I like BOTH starting.

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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1233 » by RunDogGun » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:59 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:We're probably about to find out how they look without Kelly. I think they might miss him more than some here seem to believe.

Personally I don't think it's at Kelly or Bridges thing, I like BOTH starting.

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Yep, it always has been. :wink:
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1234 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:27 pm

Scutt wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
nevetsov wrote:Returning:
Ayton
Booker
Bridges
Rubio
Jerome
Johnson
Kaminsky (cheap option)
Diallo (cheap option)
Lecque (cheap option)

Gone:
Oubre (trade due pending extension $)
Baynes (Utah FA?)
Saric (tba FA)
Carter (upgraded backup PG acquired)
Okobo (traded/ cut)
Harper (cut)
Owens (cut or NAZ 2 way)

We can't extend Oubre. He has one year left on his contract. Unless we get a player that can produce better than 18/6 with 1.4 steals per game, It seems like a bad idea to move him. I don't know why everyone wants him gone though. He is a solid two way player, and plays with heart every game.


I can only speak for me personally, but I want Oubre gone because he seems unwilling to play within the offense, is super inconsistent, and lacks good basketball IQ. Long-term, I don't think Ayton can reach his offensive potential when playing next to two selfish players in Booker and Oubre, so one of them needs to go. Booker is putting up 26 points a game, efficiently, and at least tries to pass to Ayton occasionally, so it's clear who the odd man out is.

Bridges is the opposite of Oubre, a high IQ basketball player who plays under control, always makes the extra pass, and can be relied upon to to do the right thing. But he doesn't blow kisses, do push ups, and head bob like Kelly, so fans don't like him. The truth is though, Bridges is the better fit at small forward next to Ayton and Booker.


Thoughts on all:
- Kaminsky @ $5 million might be a little expensive, given his most recent injury. Saric I think is about that valuable. I think it's more likely that we keep Kaminsky than Saric, I guess. I'm just worried about his health. He's a second stringer if healthy. He's worth than a stringer if he can't play. He's $5 million and a roster spot either way.
- Carter is a FANTASTIC THIRD-STRINGER. Why get rid of him? He's cheap and can play.
- I'm not in favor of drafting a backup PG. If Ty Jerome can't step into the backup 1 slot, then you find some other way to fill the hole. You can only have so many players at the same position in development.
- Our #1 priority in free agency should be adding a backup 2 for Booker. We need a guy who can step in off the bench and knock down some shots. If that player can also play some PG, that's a bonus. A lot of teams play small, and we could use another 2 guard on defense a lot of the time.

nevetsov wrote:- We can't extend Oubre. He has one year left on his contract. Unless we get a player that can produce better than 18/6 with 1.4 steals per game, It seems like a bad idea to move him. I don't know why everyone wants him gone though. He is a solid two way player, and plays with heart every game.


I agree with this. You don't move Oubre. Go find me a PF who posts those stats in free agency. You can't. Throw in 51 FG%, 35 3FG%, and 0.7 BPG, with relatively few turnovers, and.... why can't we just plan to re-sign him as a free agent? Need we remind ourselves that he's part of the best 5-man unit in the league? He might be listed as SF and Mikal as PF for whatever reason, but Kelly gives you a lot of the production that you want out of your 4, and I don't recall a bunch of power forwards going off on us this season.

One final thought, in re our roster and the draft. It sure would be nice to add a solid 4/5 to our third string. We ran out of bigs this year and could have used someone more effective than Diallo. As I've stated in the 2020 Draft thread, I like Paul Reed, but Vernon Carey would also be a solid pick, or Okongwu if for whatever silly reason he drops to us. It's becoming more and more obvious to me that we would draft Toppin if we ended up with a top pick in the lottery. But if we stay at the back of the lotto, I'd also consider selecting, or dropping back to select, Tyler Bey, especially if there were a team willing to part with an asset to move up. We were very thin at the three once Cam went down. It's possible that the best way to use Ayton and Bridges is to give them a rebounding wing to work with (like Oubre, or Bey).
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1235 » by MathiasPW » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:44 pm

Kelly Oubre's On/Off Ratings:

ORTG: +5.0 (112 on/107 off) - 3rd best on the team, after Booker (+13) and Rubio (+5.4)
DRTG: -2.8 (112 on/109 off) - 4th worst on the team, after Booker (-4.8), Saric (-3.1) and Ty Jerome (-3.1). I have a bit of trouble grasping this, I don't see Kelly as a bad defender, even though he gambles a lot.
NET RATING: +2.2 - 5th best on the team, the worst among starters, who all have at least twice his rating differential.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1236 » by RunDogGun » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:45 pm

I am still confused why we don't use Diallo more. He plays with effort, and is super efficient near the hoop. I think he could be a spark off the bench, if we are smart and start Cam next to Bridges. I would use Diallo more than Baynes, because Baynes seems a bit checked out. Baynes just hasn't been the enforcer I thought he would be. You could run Diallo with Saric, and that way you have a one in and one out, if Saric is hitting his shots.

This Oubre disdain is getting out of control, as is this constant worry about who is in what position. I don't think Boston starts a guy over 6'8". Our biggest advantage of starting Bridges and Oubre together is the fact that can switch quickly, do a good to great job guarding any position, and have long arms to get into passing lanes and get deflections and steals. It would be awesome if Cam could step into the role that Oubre leaves. Have Cam work with Bridges, and learn how to play solid defense. It also gives Rubio another target for assists, and it opens space for Ayton to work. Cam gives Booker some relief, because guys won't be able to double as much, because Cam is a good three point shooter.

If Oubre is out for the season, then we need to finish the season strong giving our rookie some valuable mins with the next best four players.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1237 » by RunDogGun » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:56 pm

MathiasPW wrote:Kelly Oubre's On/Off Ratings:

ORTG: +5.0 (112 on/107 off) - 3rd best on the team, after Booker (+13) and Rubio (+5.4)
DRTG: -2.8 (112 on/109 off) - 4th worst on the team, after Booker (-4.8), Saric (-3.1) and Ty Jerome (-3.1). I have a bit of trouble grasping this, I don't see Kelly as a bad defender, even though he gambles a lot.
NET RATING: +2.2 - 5th best on the team, the worst among starters, who all have at least twice his rating differential.

Well this is where the eye test comes into play. Oubre has a 7'3" wingspan, he gets his hands into the passing lanes, and also gets deflections. He is top three in steals (1.3) with Rubio and Bridges tied above him at (1.5). Oubre is also number two in blocks, just above Bridges. Oubre is also number two in defensive rebounds.

It is nearly impossible to separate one player from the best unit we have, for that unit is greater than the sum of its parts. They switch quickly, they can guard multiple positions, they steal, they board, they hustle.

In Kelly's absence, I would start Cam, and see if he can fill the role Oubre has.
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1238 » by KLEON » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:02 pm

How much money will Saric command in the off-season?
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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1239 » by GoodBehavior » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:17 pm

KLEON wrote:How much money will Saric command in the off-season?


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Re: 2019-20 Season Speculation, free agency, summer trades: The excitement of the trade deadline has passed! 

Post#1240 » by RunDogGun » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:23 pm

KLEON wrote:How much money will Saric command in the off-season?

I just don't think he will get an offer higher than $7-8 million. I am thinking he would get an offer of about $6.5 from us, unless we see Frank looking to be ready and available and what we draft. If we don't give him an offer, I think he would get some weak offers, for he just hasn't taken the steps to be a starter.

That being said, I would like to retain him, as a backup 4-5.

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