2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV

[lilfishi22]

I mean we're pretty much screwed anyways this season, so I guess why not right?

It sucks that we'll take from one hole to fill another, meaning that even though we've already tried this Booker/ Beal starting lineup and it was aweful, I guess if something doesn't/ hasn't worked previously, you gotta keep trying it until it does work. That's lol..........
basically our franchise. What's the definition of insanity again??

But as I was saying, in taking from the bench, will restore redundancy to our starting lineup again while taking depth and production off our bench to make it worse. Filling one hole while creating another. What'd truly be laughable would be if Bud still kept Tyus starting too in a lineup of Jones/ Beal/ Booker/ KD / Richards.

Was it awful though? If we're taking this season as a barometer, yeah it wasn't good but that's with a useless Nurk/Mason at the 5 and Tyus Jones. Last season, 9th in offense, 13th on defense, 9th in net rating.

As for redundancy, I'd rather have redundancy than a negative

Well, according to out overall record, net rating, etc it was. Even though we were apparently better last season. This season when our big 3 shared the court, they had a - 5.9 rating (over 249.0 minutes).
https://valleyofthesuns.com/phoenix-suns-biggest-problem-obvious-nearly-impossible-fix-bradley-beal

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/what-is-the-suns-record-when-the-big-3-plays-together
They also had a 27-29 ( losing record) when the big 3 played together.

AI Overview

The Phoenix Suns' Big Three of Devin Booker, Kevin Durant, and Bradley Beal have ranked below average and had a -4.3 Net Rating when playing together.


And that's not even considering the overall redundancy, lack of spacing, lack of defense and clear identification of roles, etc. Yes, you make good points about removing Nurkic and Jones to try and mitigate the situation. But this is where they're at this season and it's still pretty bad. And absolutely arguably " aweful " when you consider multiple factors like the facts that we have the highest payroll in NBA history, traded away all of our assets over the next 7-8 yrs , have no flexibility or long term future direction.

And we are going to hemorrhage high value assets to other teams over the next 4-5 years just for the privilege of losing in embarassing fashion and falling significantly short of our stated goals for multiple seasons now. Under those considerations, yeah! I'd say our big 3 super team experiment has this far been fairly aweful man.

I don't care about the off court stuff. I'm only arguing about the merit of the Big 3 starting vs Book/KD/Tyus. The Big 3 hasn't proven to be some elite combination that many had hoped they would be but I also think it has its strengths and while I hate to scapegoat Tyus, I do think that we just haven't used him well and when we're not handing him the keys to maximise his strengths; his small stature and poor defense just makes his presence on an already pretty small starting 5 feel even smaller and less capable defensively.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Anybody hungry for a nothingburger??

lol and all this time, I thought we were playing well but now that I know we're not because Flex brought sauces

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

[They_Them_Hatin]

I knew yesterday ball movement was too good to be true. This was awful but I had a feeling they were going to lose. The front office did nothing to solve the biggest issue which was length and the Raptors whole team is probably all over 6”6.

KD was awful offensively. Suns don’t run anything to make it easier for him. Still expected more rebounds. 6 stocks was nice I guess.

Beal was a complete black hole on offense. Had 0 assist until a garbage time assist to Grayson. He can’t play without the ball which stagnates the offense and why he should come off the bench.

Booker took 25 shots to make the same amount of FGs as Beal who took 10 less. Didn’t even try on defense and just threw up crap.

Royce & Grayson are complete garbage if they aren’t making 3s. They got cooked again. That lineup with them and the crappy big 3 has to stop!

Bol Bol, Dunn, & Richards minutes against the freaking Raptors of all teams was just stupid. Especially when Grayson & Royce continue to get beat. Especially Grayson.

Only way to stop playing Plumlee is to cut him but the front office doesn’t care about this season. Him having any minutes against this team is so dumb. Only hope is the Kings are just as much of a dumpster fire.

[bigfoot]

Suns are a bottom four defensive team. Can't fix lazy defenders when they get paid max and their next contract is tied to putting up 25+ points per game

[They_Them_Hatin]

Was it awful though? If we're taking this season as a barometer, yeah it wasn't good but that's with a useless Nurk/Mason at the 5 and Tyus Jones. Last season, 9th in offense, 13th on defense, 9th in net rating.

As for redundancy, I'd rather have redundancy than a negative

Well, according to out overall record, net rating, etc it was. Even though we were apparently better last season. This season when our big 3 shared the court, they had a - 5.9 rating (over 249.0 minutes).
https://valleyofthesuns.com/phoenix-suns-biggest-problem-obvious-nearly-impossible-fix-bradley-beal

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/what-is-the-suns-record-when-the-big-3-plays-together
They also had a 27-29 ( losing record) when the big 3 played together.

AI Overview

The Phoenix Suns' Big Three of Devin Booker, Kevin Durant, and Bradley Beal have ranked below average and had a -4.3 Net Rating when playing together.


And that's not even considering the overall redundancy, lack of spacing, lack of defense and clear identification of roles, etc. Yes, you make good points about removing Nurkic and Jones to try and mitigate the situation. But this is where they're at this season and it's still pretty bad. And absolutely arguably " aweful " when you consider multiple factors like the facts that we have the highest payroll in NBA history, traded away all of our assets over the next 7-8 yrs , have no flexibility or long term future direction.

And we are going to hemorrhage high value assets to other teams over the next 4-5 years just for the privilege of losing in embarassing fashion and falling significantly short of our stated goals for multiple seasons now. Under those considerations, yeah! I'd say our big 3 super team experiment has this far been fairly aweful man.

I don't care about the off court stuff. I'm only arguing about the merit of the Big 3 starting vs Book/KD/Tyus. The Big 3 hasn't proven to be some elite combination that many had hoped they would be but I also think it has its strengths and while I hate to scapegoat Tyus, I do think that we just haven't used him well and when we're not handing him the keys to maximise his strengths; his small stature and poor defense just makes his presence on an already pretty small starting 5 feel even smaller and less capable defensively.

This game is exactly why Tyus was needed and Beal should be on the bench for Dunn. Beal was feeling himself too much early on. I don’t think no one but him or Booker touched the ball for like the first 4 minutes of the game. It set the tone for the game. He ended up only taking 15 shots but then Booker took 25. Then they both got cooked defensively.

[garrick]

I'm at the point where I don't think that trading Booker or Durant is going to fix the mess that Ishbia has created. Even with the potential haul we'd get from trading Booker and Durant (or anybody else), there's no telling what he'd do with the picks we received. Given his penchant for impatient moves and mind numbingly foolish ones at that, it's likely we'd be cemented to the bottom of the conference for another decade.

This team is so broken at this point there's little to no hope in sight anymore.

I had a lot of hope for a new owner who was willing to spend; now I'm missing the owner who everyone hated for being cheap and stupid. How did we go so utterly wrong so quickly? There should be a book written about this and while I do like to write, I'm afraid I don't have any idea where to start but with my head in my hands.

Sent from my SM-F936U using RealGM mobile app

Lets hope Ishbia's business tanks and he's forced to sell the Suns because he can't afford the loans.

With the economy with the way it is this might not be a far fetched reality!

[Ghost of Kleine]

Was it awful though? If we're taking this season as a barometer, yeah it wasn't good but that's with a useless Nurk/Mason at the 5 and Tyus Jones. Last season, 9th in offense, 13th on defense, 9th in net rating.

As for redundancy, I'd rather have redundancy than a negative

Well, according to out overall record, net rating, etc it was. Even though we were apparently better last season. This season when our big 3 shared the court, they had a - 5.9 rating (over 249.0 minutes).
https://valleyofthesuns.com/phoenix-suns-biggest-problem-obvious-nearly-impossible-fix-bradley-beal

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/what-is-the-suns-record-when-the-big-3-plays-together
They also had a 27-29 ( losing record) when the big 3 played together.

AI Overview

The Phoenix Suns' Big Three of Devin Booker, Kevin Durant, and Bradley Beal have ranked below average and had a -4.3 Net Rating when playing together.


And that's not even considering the overall redundancy, lack of spacing, lack of defense and clear identification of roles, etc. Yes, you make good points about removing Nurkic and Jones to try and mitigate the situation. But this is where they're at this season and it's still pretty bad. And absolutely arguably " aweful " when you consider multiple factors like the facts that we have the highest payroll in NBA history, traded away all of our assets over the next 7-8 yrs , have no flexibility or long term future direction.

And we are going to hemorrhage high value assets to other teams over the next 4-5 years just for the privilege of losing in embarassing fashion and falling significantly short of our stated goals for multiple seasons now. Under those considerations, yeah! I'd say our big 3 super team experiment has this far been fairly aweful man.

I don't care about the off court stuff. I'm only arguing about the merit of the Big 3 starting vs Book/KD/Tyus. The Big 3 hasn't proven to be some elite combination that many had hoped they would be but I also think it has its strengths and while I hate to scapegoat Tyus, I do think that we just haven't used him well and when we're not handing him the keys to maximise his strengths; his small stature and poor defense just makes his presence on an already pretty small starting 5 feel even smaller and less capable defensively.

Definitely not intending to scapegoat Jones man. But to me, Ideally, our best starting lineup would be..............................

Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ KD / Richards.
Jones/ Allen/ O'neale/ Bol/ Plumlee.
Morris/ D Lee/ Martin/ Allen/ Ighodaro.
OR
Booker/Allen/ Dunn/ KD/ Richards.
Jones/ Beal/ O'neale/ Bol/ Plumlee.
Morris/ D Lee/ Dunn/ O'neale/ Ighodaro.

I will also suggest that the reason why Jons was so effective for the Grizz is because they had long, physical athletic players that could help cover for his defensive inadequacies, whereas we have maybe one (in Dunn) whom our coach doesn't really play anyways. Jones just fits much better off the bench.

[lilfishi22]

Well, according to out overall record, net rating, etc it was. Even though we were apparently better last season. This season when our big 3 shared the court, they had a - 5.9 rating (over 249.0 minutes).
https://valleyofthesuns.com/phoenix-suns-biggest-problem-obvious-nearly-impossible-fix-bradley-beal

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/what-is-the-suns-record-when-the-big-3-plays-together
They also had a 27-29 ( losing record) when the big 3 played together.

AI Overview

The Phoenix Suns' Big Three of Devin Booker, Kevin Durant, and Bradley Beal have ranked below average and had a -4.3 Net Rating when playing together.


And that's not even considering the overall redundancy, lack of spacing, lack of defense and clear identification of roles, etc. Yes, you make good points about removing Nurkic and Jones to try and mitigate the situation. But this is where they're at this season and it's still pretty bad. And absolutely arguably " aweful " when you consider multiple factors like the facts that we have the highest payroll in NBA history, traded away all of our assets over the next 7-8 yrs , have no flexibility or long term future direction.

And we are going to hemorrhage high value assets to other teams over the next 4-5 years just for the privilege of losing in embarassing fashion and falling significantly short of our stated goals for multiple seasons now. Under those considerations, yeah! I'd say our big 3 super team experiment has this far been fairly aweful man.

I don't care about the off court stuff. I'm only arguing about the merit of the Big 3 starting vs Book/KD/Tyus. The Big 3 hasn't proven to be some elite combination that many had hoped they would be but I also think it has its strengths and while I hate to scapegoat Tyus, I do think that we just haven't used him well and when we're not handing him the keys to maximise his strengths; his small stature and poor defense just makes his presence on an already pretty small starting 5 feel even smaller and less capable defensively.

This game is exactly why Tyus was needed and Beal should be on the bench for Dunn. Beal was feeling himself too much early on. I don’t think no one but him or Booker touched the ball for like the first 4 minutes of the game. It set the tone for the game. He ended up only taking 15 shots but then Booker took 25. Then they both got cooked defensively.

Look past this game for a second and look at the season as a whole and you'll find how neutered Tyus is as a PG. He brings the ball and then very quickly runs an action to get the ball to Book or KD for them to make a play and he becomes a 5'10 3PT shooting wing who just stands around. Which is totally fine if not the fact that he's 5'10 and not very good on the defensive end.

Our offense is a little worse than last season (10th vs 9th in ORTG but -2.2pts per100) but our defense fell off a cliff completely. Again, I won't scapegoat Tyus and saying he's the sole reason for us fall from 13th in the league last season (respectable considering the roster) all the way down to 27th this season but he's clearly not a positive defender and he's hurting out overall size in the starting line up. Beal hasn't been good either this season but we've seen in pretty good on that end before and at least has the potential to be good unlike Tyus.

[lilfishi22]

I'm at the point where I don't think that trading Booker or Durant is going to fix the mess that Ishbia has created. Even with the potential haul we'd get from trading Booker and Durant (or anybody else), there's no telling what he'd do with the picks we received. Given his penchant for impatient moves and mind numbingly foolish ones at that, it's likely we'd be cemented to the bottom of the conference for another decade.

This team is so broken at this point there's little to no hope in sight anymore.

I had a lot of hope for a new owner who was willing to spend; now I'm missing the owner who everyone hated for being cheap and stupid. How did we go so utterly wrong so quickly? There should be a book written about this and while I do like to write, I'm afraid I don't have any idea where to start but with my head in my hands.

Sent from my SM-F936U using RealGM mobile app

Lets hope Ishbia's business tanks and he's forced to sell the Suns because he can't afford the loans.

With the economy with the way it is this might not be a far fetched reality!

I don't' want to trade Book but I do want Ishbia to get a serious wake up call and that honestly may only come if we miss even the play-in altogether with the highest payroll in the league.

[They_Them_Hatin]

Well at least KD is taking accountability for playing like trash on the offensive end.

[They_Them_Hatin]

I don't care about the off court stuff. I'm only arguing about the merit of the Big 3 starting vs Book/KD/Tyus. The Big 3 hasn't proven to be some elite combination that many had hoped they would be but I also think it has its strengths and while I hate to scapegoat Tyus, I do think that we just haven't used him well and when we're not handing him the keys to maximise his strengths; his small stature and poor defense just makes his presence on an already pretty small starting 5 feel even smaller and less capable defensively.

This game is exactly why Tyus was needed and Beal should be on the bench for Dunn. Beal was feeling himself too much early on. I don’t think no one but him or Booker touched the ball for like the first 4 minutes of the game. It set the tone for the game. He ended up only taking 15 shots but then Booker took 25. Then they both got cooked defensively.

Look past this game for a second and look at the season as a whole and you'll find how neutered Tyus is as a PG. He brings the ball and then very quickly runs an action to get the ball to Book or KD for them to make a play and he becomes a 5'10 3PT shooting wing who just stands around. Which is totally fine if not the fact that he's 5'10 and not very good on the defensive end.

Our offense is a little worse than last season (10th vs 9th in ORTG but -2.2pts per100) but our defense fell off a cliff completely. Again, I won't scapegoat Tyus and saying he's the sole reason for us fall from 13th in the league last season (respectable considering the roster) all the way down to 27th this season but he's clearly not a positive defender and he's hurting out overall size in the starting line up. Beal hasn't been good either this season but we've seen in pretty good on that end before and at least has the potential to be good unlike Tyus.

His defense is why I don’t want him back in the lineup but he at least racked up assists. Beal has been a black hole since and neutralizes KD. He’s making the shots right now so fine but the offense is just ugly and stagnate when they’re not hitting and none of the guards can guard. Which makes it worst. My “perfect” starting lineup at this point is
Booker
Dunn
KD
Bol Bol
Richards

Close with Beal instead of Bol Bol

Since Beal has been putting up numbers even though he’s been a black hole he’s not going back to the bench but Bol Bol needs to take Grayson’s minutes. Neither can guard but Bol Bol at least could block some shots instead of getting torched.

[ChuckS]

I'm at the point where I don't think that trading Booker or Durant is going to fix the mess that Ishbia has created. Even with the potential haul we'd get from trading Booker and Durant (or anybody else), there's no telling what he'd do with the picks we received. Given his penchant for impatient moves and mind numbingly foolish ones at that, it's likely we'd be cemented to the bottom of the conference for another decade.

This team is so broken at this point there's little to no hope in sight anymore.

I had a lot of hope for a new owner who was willing to spend; now I'm missing the owner who everyone hated for being cheap and stupid. How did we go so utterly wrong so quickly? There should be a book written about this and while I do like to write, I'm afraid I don't have any idea where to start but with my head in my hands.

Sent from my SM-F936U using RealGM mobile app

Lets hope Ishbia's business tanks and he's forced to sell the Suns because he can't afford the loans.

With the economy with the way it is this might not be a far fetched reality!

I don't' want to trade Book but I do want Ishbia to get a serious wake up call and that honestly may only come if we miss even the play-in altogether with the highest payroll in the league.

OK, I know this is going to sound crazy, or worse! But Ishbia doesn't seem like someone who gives up easily. He would probably choose some bizarre form of "Turkish revenge" and petition the league to move the team to Las Vegas, where he would probably get even richer, and with everyone there so excited to have a new team he could do whatever he wanted for years.

It would probably backfire in a way, though. With an infrastructure and fan base immediately available Phoenix could get the new team being proposed. The fans here would be ecstatic about really starting from scratch. Drawing from the league's unprotected players, they could probably get seventeen of those youngsters so many covet. They couldn't use the Suns name though, but perhaps pick something scarier like the Grizzlies, TWolves, and Raptors. No team seems afraid of us lately. The Phoenix Diamondbacks kind of rolls off the tongue. And they would have 56 more years to get it right this time.

[lilfishi22]

This game is exactly why Tyus was needed and Beal should be on the bench for Dunn. Beal was feeling himself too much early on. I don’t think no one but him or Booker touched the ball for like the first 4 minutes of the game. It set the tone for the game. He ended up only taking 15 shots but then Booker took 25. Then they both got cooked defensively.

Look past this game for a second and look at the season as a whole and you'll find how neutered Tyus is as a PG. He brings the ball and then very quickly runs an action to get the ball to Book or KD for them to make a play and he becomes a 5'10 3PT shooting wing who just stands around. Which is totally fine if not the fact that he's 5'10 and not very good on the defensive end.

Our offense is a little worse than last season (10th vs 9th in ORTG but -2.2pts per100) but our defense fell off a cliff completely. Again, I won't scapegoat Tyus and saying he's the sole reason for us fall from 13th in the league last season (respectable considering the roster) all the way down to 27th this season but he's clearly not a positive defender and he's hurting out overall size in the starting line up. Beal hasn't been good either this season but we've seen in pretty good on that end before and at least has the potential to be good unlike Tyus.

His defense is why I don’t want him back in the lineup but he at least racked up assists. Beal has been a black hole since and neutralizes KD. He’s making the shots right now so fine but the offense is just ugly and stagnate when they’re not hitting and none of the guards can guard. Which makes it worst. My “perfect” starting lineup at this point is
Booker
Dunn
KD
Bol Bol
Richards

Close with Beal instead of Bol Bol

Since Beal has been putting up numbers even though he’s been a black hole he’s not going back to the bench but Bol Bol needs to take Grayson’s minutes. Neither can guard but Bol Bol at least could block some shots instead of getting torched.

Let's be real here

Tyus hasn't been the revelation this team hoped he would be on offense. Like let's put away the clear disadvantage he is on defense and focus on offense. Yes, he's a good assist guy and he takes care of the ball. All good things. But what does that mean in the context of team offense....? Practically neglible

Compared to last season:
ORTG: 115.4 (-2.2)
Pace: 97.4 (-0.9)
APG: 27.5 (+0.5)
TO per game: 14.0 (-0.9)
TOV%: 12.8% (-0.6%)

So we have a worse offensive rating, we're slower, we averaged half an assist more and turn the ball over almost 1 less per game (which is good) but overall TO percentage is negligible given we also play at a slower pace too. So all in all, we're not really that improved a team offensively despite adding Tyus into the starting line up.

I watch our team play some pretty god damn uninspired basketball and that's with a solid PG at the helm. And if he's not impacting the offense as much as we hoped he would be then you're giving up points by keeping him in the starting line up imo. Tyus Jones at the end of the day is an elite PG from the perspective of a bench player. He'll come off the bench for you, like he's done through out his career and give you 20min of solid PG play and occasionally fill in when your starting PG is not available and do an admirable job. Last season was his first season season as a full time starter and he was good. Put up great numbers, really efficient with the ball and was an absolute pro about it. But that was also for a 15w Wizards team. On a team with real stakes and real aspirations (and real desperation).....well he's not a miracle worker. Again he plays solid basketball but he ultimately isn't moving the needle for us.

Now the same argument could be made for Beal who hasn't been the Beal that's been a star in this league for a decade but he's at least been a star and has all-NBA credentials and FWIW the 3-man line up (B/B/K) last season was a +6.7pts per100 so at least there's some precedent there that shows it can work. Not elite but can work.

[sunsbg]

Butler's playing well for GSW. KD screwed us by refusing the trade. While I'd hate giving Jimmy a max + losing picks, him replacing KD + gaining assets would've been nice.

Only way Suns make the playoffs is Kings who also have a hard schedule lose more than us. Then need to win two play in games. I'd put making the playoffs at 10% likelihood.

I thought we’d get picks in that trade? Not lose them?

I had something longer typed out on making the playoffs then I realized I agreed with everything you said lol. Maybe a slight favorite to pass the Kings if I’m being generous. Can’t see us passing anyone else unless the Mavs start to fall apart after that disaster trade, but they are still playing hard. 10% sounds about right on the playoffs.

Quite frankly, even if there were a net addition in draft capital, I'd rather not have to extend Jimmy. I don't look at GS playing well as indication that it would've been the right deal for us. At the end of the day, yes they are playing well and they are happy with the trade, but I don't think their situation should dictate whether it would've been a good deal for us.

Ultimately clean books is almost as important as having draft capital in a reload/rebuild and having Jimmy in the books at the max for another couple of years and on a team that may not be particularly competitive, that is a recipe for disaster.

I'd agree if Beal's NTC was not here to stay for two more seasons or Booker was about to get traded, but I doubt it. Ishbia will not go into full rebuild and Butler's leadership and better fit, D and off ball movement as someone said, would've been helpful to try making the playoffs as there is no iniative to lose not controlling our picks. I doubt we get a better offer for KD than GSW one in the offseason.

[lilfishi22]

I thought we’d get picks in that trade? Not lose them?

I had something longer typed out on making the playoffs then I realized I agreed with everything you said lol. Maybe a slight favorite to pass the Kings if I’m being generous. Can’t see us passing anyone else unless the Mavs start to fall apart after that disaster trade, but they are still playing hard. 10% sounds about right on the playoffs.

Quite frankly, even if there were a net addition in draft capital, I'd rather not have to extend Jimmy. I don't look at GS playing well as indication that it would've been the right deal for us. At the end of the day, yes they are playing well and they are happy with the trade, but I don't think their situation should dictate whether it would've been a good deal for us.

Ultimately clean books is almost as important as having draft capital in a reload/rebuild and having Jimmy in the books at the max for another couple of years and on a team that may not be particularly competitive, that is a recipe for disaster.

I'd agree if Beal's NTC was not here to stay for two more seasons or Booker was about to get traded, but I doubt it. Ishbia will not go into full rebuild and Butler's leadership and better fit, D and off ball movement as someone said, would've been helpful to try making the playoffs as there is no iniative to lose not controlling our picks. I doubt we get a better offer for KD than GSW one in the offseason.

Like I've said before in other post, I see trading for Jimmy as a business as usual move (ie continue to try and compete) as opposed to keeping KD to move him in the summer, which would be a big change in direction. Now we likely still won't do a full rebuild where everyone is available but not bringing Jimmy in will at least save us (and Ishbia) from doubling down further because we would've almost certainly extended him and that's more or less the same as extending KD, which is just delaying in inevitable.

The way I see it, not getting Jimmy sets us on a better path because it will more likely tip us towards a re-org rather than continuing down this path. Now I specifically used the word reorganisation rather than rebuild/tank because like you, I don't believe we'll go down a full rebuild path nor is there value in it, not as long as Booker is here (which I'm all for). But a re-org just means moving things around to clean the books, look at getting under the 2nd apron, maybe bring in some draft capital via moving assets but stay competitive where possible.

[sunsbg]

Quite frankly, even if there were a net addition in draft capital, I'd rather not have to extend Jimmy. I don't look at GS playing well as indication that it would've been the right deal for us. At the end of the day, yes they are playing well and they are happy with the trade, but I don't think their situation should dictate whether it would've been a good deal for us.

Ultimately clean books is almost as important as having draft capital in a reload/rebuild and having Jimmy in the books at the max for another couple of years and on a team that may not be particularly competitive, that is a recipe for disaster.

I'd agree if Beal's NTC was not here to stay for two more seasons or Booker was about to get traded, but I doubt it. Ishbia will not go into full rebuild and Butler's leadership and better fit, D and off ball movement as someone said, would've been helpful to try making the playoffs as there is no iniative to lose not controlling our picks. I doubt we get a better offer for KD than GSW one in the offseason.

Like I've said before in other post, I see trading for Jimmy as a business as usual move (ie continue to try and compete) as opposed to keeping KD to move him in the summer, which would be a big change in direction. Now we likely still won't do a full rebuild where everyone is available but not bringing Jimmy in will at least save us (and Ishbia) from doubling down further because we would've almost certainly extended him and that's more or less the same as extending KD, which is just delaying in inevitable.

The way I see it, not getting Jimmy sets us on a better path because it will more likely tip us towards a re-org rather than continuing down this path. Now I specifically used the word reorganisation rather than rebuild/tank because like you, I don't believe we'll go down a full rebuild path nor is there value in it, not as long as Booker is here (which I'm all for). But a re-org just means moving things around to clean the books, look at getting under the 2nd apron, maybe bring in some draft capital via moving assets but stay competitive where possible.

Wasn't moving KD for GSW offer exactly this unlike moving Beal for Butler ? If both Beal and Booker remain on the team how do you see the bolded happen ? I guess what we get for KD in the offseason will give a better idea where we are in regards to rebuild/stay competitive, but GSW offer was providing opportunity for both.

[Saberestar]

With all our losses our only hope is to get an spot in the Play-In.

The GSW did a really good move adding Butler, they are gonna be a tough team in the playoffs and I like their options next season too.

The Kings and the Mavs are the only two teams that I can see struggling to make the Play-In and fighting with us to get to the 8th spot that gives you a decent option to be in the Playoffs.

It's what it's. 25 games to go.

[sunsbg]

Only 3-4 wins behind 8th spot. Let's stay positive.

[mkot]

Jimmy Butler works in GS because that team defend like crazy even before he joined the team. You give guys around Green who are willing and capable of playing defense the team is going to have a top 10 defense. Their problem hasn't been their defense, it's their offense outside of Curry. So a foul merchant like Butler is going to give them a consistent secondary scoring every night to make them a more balance team. Not sure how much better they could get or if they are legit contender, but there's at least hope now.

GS went all in because they believe in the Green-Curry duo as they should.