Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up

Frank Lee · Post #1241 » by **Frank Lee** » Tue Apr 9, 2019 12:57 pm

Im not sure the anti Clutch is an official policy....seems more of a sentiment around here. Once the FA signing begin...the pickings will get slim fast. We very well might be choosing from the second shelf... guys like Vonleh, Ed Davis, Marvin Williams, our own Bender, etc....

As far as TJ goes.... He is our number one trade chip, value wise......is there any surprise at all we sat him in these last meaningless games?

RunDogGun · Post #1242 » by **RunDogGun** » Tue Apr 9, 2019 1:31 pm

I understand wanting Clarke if we drop in the lotto, but at 6'8" 215 lb, is he really any different than slotting one of our sfs in the pf spot?

BobbieL · Post #1243 » by **BobbieL** » Tue Apr 9, 2019 2:12 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Im not sure the anti Clutch is an official policy....seems more of a sentiment around here. Once the FA signing begin...the pickings will get slim fast. We very well might be choosing from the second shelf... guys like Vonleh, Ed Davis, Marvin Williams, our own Bender, etc....

As far as TJ goes.... He is our number one trade chip, value wise......is there any surprise at all we sat him in these last meaningless games?

Marvin Williams - interesting name

/ Last year, I think we all know I was over a Kemba/Williams for Expirings and draft picks and maybe TJ. This year, with his cap number at 14m - I don't see him as a fit. I would probably rather have Bender.

But I do agree Warren is a good trade chip and I think the 2019 FRP is as well if the player is not Zion. Those two could be 18m of cap space - added to the estimated 7.5m - the Suns could have 25m of cap space. That should be enough for PG and PF Collison + Mirotic. Aminu + Rubio. I know I have mentioned Clarke as PF and he would be fine option. But I really would prefer two more veteran players if at all possible.

One scenario I thought of if the Jazz revisit Conley is a possibly three-way deal, that means Rubio would agree with the Suns

Conley to Jazz
Warren, maybe Okobo or Melton to the Grizzlies with a pick from Utah
Suns get Rubio

Suns would still have decent cap space for a guy like Aminu

WeekapaugGroove · Post #1244 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Tue Apr 9, 2019 3:18 pm

RunDogGun wrote:I understand wanting Clarke if we drop in the lotto, but at 6'8" 215 lb, is he really any different than slotting one of our sfs in the pf spot?

He a much better defender and natural rebounder than any of the current forwards on the roster. His size would have been a bigger issue 10-15 years ago but now teams play smaller in general. I actually think TJ is big enough to play PF in today's NBA the problem is he's just not a great rebounder or rim protector, is more about skillset than size.

But as I've been saying I do really want to see Clarke's actual height and wingspan. He looks 6'8 so I expect hell measure out fine but if for some reason he's smaller than listed that would give me a little more pause taking that high.

And if they do draft Clarke I would target a big PF in free agency because you'd want someone like that for certain matchups.

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BobbieL · Post #1245 » by **BobbieL** » Tue Apr 9, 2019 3:56 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:I understand wanting Clarke if we drop in the lotto, but at 6'8" 215 lb, is he really any different than slotting one of our sfs in the pf spot?
He a much better defender and natural rebounder than any of the current forwards on the roster. His size would have been a bigger issue 10-15 years ago but now teams play smaller in general. I actually think TJ is big enough to play PF in today's NBA the problem is he's just not a great rebounder or rim protector, is more about skillset than size.

But as I've been saying I do really want to see Clarke's actual height and wingspan. He looks 6'8 so I expect hell measure out fine but if for some reason he's smaller than listed that would give me a little more pause taking that high.

And if they do draft Clarke I would target a big PF in free agency because you'd want someone like that for certain matchups.

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The Suns can't draft Clarke, sign a veteran PF and still upgrade PG unless they trade not just Warren but Jackson as well. I guess they can sign guys for cheap but even Aminu is going to cost money. Unless its Zion, dump the damn pick, get cap space, maybe trade Josh and a PG and get two veterans - time to start winning!

WeekapaugGroove · Post #1246 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Tue Apr 9, 2019 4:03 pm

BobbieL wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:I understand wanting Clarke if we drop in the lotto, but at 6'8" 215 lb, is he really any different than slotting one of our sfs in the pf spot?
He a much better defender and natural rebounder than any of the current forwards on the roster. His size would have been a bigger issue 10-15 years ago but now teams play smaller in general. I actually think TJ is big enough to play PF in today's NBA the problem is he's just not a great rebounder or rim protector, is more about skillset than size.

But as I've been saying I do really want to see Clarke's actual height and wingspan. He looks 6'8 so I expect hell measure out fine but if for some reason he's smaller than listed that would give me a little more pause taking that high.

And if they do draft Clarke I would target a big PF in free agency because you'd want someone like that for certain matchups.

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The Suns can't draft Clarke, sign a veteran PF and still upgrade PG unless they trade not just Warren but Jackson as well. I guess they can sign guys for cheap but even Aminu is going to cost money. Unless its Zion, dump the damn pick, get cap space, maybe trade Josh and a PG and get two veterans - time to start winning!

I hate this draft after Zion so I'm all for it. But it takes two to tango on the trade market. If they did draft Clarke I think he can contribute right away so it lessens the need to add a starter level PF and you could maybe grab a vet with the room mle after signing a PG with space. But I also would be shocked if one of JJ or Warren aren't moved so that changes the money dynamic too.

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Post #1247 » by **bwgood77** » Tue Apr 9, 2019 4:24 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Im not sure the anti Clutch is an official policy....seems more of a sentiment around here. Once the FA signing begin...the pickings will get slim fast. We very well might be choosing from the second shelf... guys like Vonleh, Ed Davis, Marvin Williams, our own Bender, etc....

As far as TJ goes.... He is our number one trade chip, value wise......is there any surprise at all we sat him in these last meaningless games?

Marvin Williams - interesting name / Last year, I think we all know I was over a Kemba/Williams for Expirings and draft picks and maybe TJ. This year, with his cap number at 14m - I don't see him as a fit. I would probably rather have Bender.

But I do agree Warren is a good trade chip and I think the 2019 FRP is as well if the player is not Zion. Those two could be 18m of cap space - added to the estimated 7.5m - the Suns could have 25m of cap space. That should be enough for PG and PF Collison + Mirotic. Aminu + Rubio. I know I have mentioned Clarke as PF and he would be fine option. But I really would prefer two more veteran players if at all possible.

One scenario I thought of if the Jazz revisit Conley is a possibly three-way deal, that means Rubio would agree with the Suns

Conley to Jazz
Warren, maybe Okobo or Melton to the Grizzlies with a pick from Utah
Suns get Rubio

Suns would still have decent cap space for a guy like Aminu

Are you saying you'd trade Warren straight into cap space for no return just to sign a guy like Rubio or maybe Collison? I'm not sure I see Mirotic coming here. He could have some high bidders too. I kind of thing Portland will try and keep Aminu too.

BobbieL · Post #1248 » by **BobbieL** » Tue Apr 9, 2019 4:34 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Im not sure the anti Clutch is an official policy....seems more of a sentiment around here. Once the FA signing begin...the pickings will get slim fast. We very well might be choosing from the second shelf... guys like Vonleh, Ed Davis, Marvin Williams, our own Bender, etc....

As far as TJ goes.... He is our number one trade chip, value wise......is there any surprise at all we sat him in these last meaningless games?

Marvin Williams - interesting name / Last year, I think we all know I was over a Kemba/Williams for Expirings and draft picks and maybe TJ. This year, with his cap number at 14m - I don't see him as a fit. I would probably rather have Bender.

But I do agree Warren is a good trade chip and I think the 2019 FRP is as well if the player is not Zion. Those two could be 18m of cap space - added to the estimated 7.5m - the Suns could have 25m of cap space. That should be enough for PG and PF Collison + Mirotic. Aminu + Rubio. I know I have mentioned Clarke as PF and he would be fine option. But I really would prefer two more veteran players if at all possible.

One scenario I thought of if the Jazz revisit Conley is a possibly three-way deal, that means Rubio would agree with the Suns

Conley to Jazz
Warren, maybe Okobo or Melton to the Grizzlies with a pick from Utah
Suns get Rubio

Suns would still have decent cap space for a guy like Aminu

Are you saying you'd trade Warren straight into cap space for no return just to sign a guy like Rubio or maybe Collison? I'm not sure I see Mirotic coming here. He could have some high bidders too. I kind of thing Portland will try and keep Aminu too.

This is where my "plan" for lack of a better term gets tricky. As I truly do not know the market for Warren and what he could bring back. I think we all know its PG and PF for the Suns. So I thought of the above as it would be a three team trade - but its based on 3 things: 1) Jazz wanting Conley still 2) The Grizzlies wanting Warren and 3) The Suns and Rubio agreeing.

My point with TJ is trying to use his 10.5m contract - and it might have to be a 3 team deal - to get a the cap space to sign a veteran PG. Many of the PGs it seems are free agents (UFA or RFA): Collison, Russell, Brogdon, Joseph, Rubio - maybe even Jones from Minnesota. So the Suns need cap space as sign and trades are tough to do

I know Conley or Jrue are not Free Agents but what value would it take to get them. And are they open to be traded.

So the trade above is somehow using Warrens 10.5m and getting a PG (or PF) which will then allow cap space to sign the other.

And to Weeks point that it takes two to tango in dumping a non Zion FRP for a future pick and maybe a small contract now - again, what team would want Morant enough, as an example, to switch picks and give the Suns something else. Just trying to manipulate contracts, and that 2019 (non Zion) FRP to get the most cap space to get PG and PF. I do agree with Week that Josj or TJ will probably be traded - the glut of SFs needs to change to balance and IMPROVE the roster.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #1249 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Tue Apr 9, 2019 4:45 pm

Anyone interested in Conley should be rooting super hard for Memphis to win these last two games and move to the 9 spot where their pick will convey to Boston this season. If that pick conveys they are free to rebuild and I think it's a certainty they move conley this summer. Now if that pick doesn't convey i think there's a chance they keep Mike for at least part of the season and try to win and not give up a super good pick to Boston next year.

Side note Boston is going to have either 3 or 4 picks between 9-22 in this draft. That could be a weird spot because I don't think teams are going to place a huge trade value on those picks and doubt teams are super interested in doing Boston any favors but I'm sure Boston doesn't want that many rookies next year either.

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Crives · Post #1250 » by **Crives** » Tue Apr 9, 2019 4:50 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Anyone interested in Conley should be rooting super hard for Memphis to win these last two games and move to the 9 spot where their pick will convey to Boston this season. If that pick conveys they are free to rebuild and I think it's a certainty they move conley this summer. Now if that pick doesn't convey i think there's a chance they keep Mike for at least part of the season and try to win and not give up a super good pick to Boston next year.

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Then I really hope they lose :banghead:

Hopefully we get one of Jrue/Morant/Ball/Collison.

Post #1251 » by **bwgood77** » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:02 am

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

wheezy · Post #1252 » by **wheezy** » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:33 am

bwgood77 wrote:

Read on Twitter

Suns drama could always be worse :clown:

WeekapaugGroove · Post #1253 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:52 am

wheezy wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:

Read on Twitter

Suns drama could always be worse

The Lakers make the suns look well run, that's really saying something. Lol

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WeekapaugGroove · Post #1254 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:54 am

Read on Twitter

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Post #1255 » by **bwgood77** » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:59 am

Hornets fans pissed Detroit won and that Memphis tanked like they did. Look at the box score qtr by qtr....particularly the 4th qtr..

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401071883

TheLogician · Post #1256 » by **TheLogician** » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:06 am

Much respect to Magic for making that decision. Class act.

King4Day · Post #1257 » by **King4Day** » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:11 am

bwgood77 wrote:Hornets fans pissed Detroit won and that Memphis tanked like they did. Look at the box score qtr by qtr....particularly the 4th qtr..

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401071883

Yea I'm even po'ed about it. I think Memphis had a 23 pt lead.
Not sure if they pulled their best players or what, but they should have won that game...
That was probably Charlotte's last best chance to make the playoffs.

It does make me think we could have a crack at griffin this summer.

King4Day · Post #1258 » by **King4Day** » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:13 am

TheLogician wrote:Much respect to Magic for making that decision. Class act.

He sounded sincere about why he's leaving. It explains why he stunk at the role. You need to have a passion and a plan. It was clear he never had that.

Post #1259 » by **bwgood77** » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:21 am

DarkHawk wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Hornets fans pissed Detroit won and that Memphis tanked like they did. Look at the box score qtr by qtr....particularly the 4th qtr..

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401071883

Yea I'm even po'ed about it. I think Memphis had a 23 pt lead.
Not sure if they pulled their best players or what, but they should have won that game...
That was probably Charlotte's last best chance to make the playoffs.

It does make me think we could have a crack at griffin this summer.

Why does it make you think we would have a crack at Griffin? Just because they were playing bad against Memphis and will likely just get swept in the playoffs?

I think they had lost like 4 in a row before that. The looked firmly in the 6th spot and now were barely hanging on to that 8th spot. But they have another easy game I think tomorrow against a tanking team (I think) and could maybe still end up as high as 6th since it's so close. And likely even if they lost tonight, if they won tomorrow they'd probably have knocked Charlotte out. They may play NY tomorrow.

King4Day · Post #1260 » by **King4Day** » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:24 am

bwgood77 wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Hornets fans pissed Detroit won and that Memphis tanked like they did. Look at the box score qtr by qtr....particularly the 4th qtr..

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401071883

Yea I'm even po'ed about it. I think Memphis had a 23 pt lead.
Not sure if they pulled their best players or what, but they should have won that game...
That was probably Charlotte's last best chance to make the playoffs.

It does make me think we could have a crack at griffin this summer.

Why does it make you think we would have a crack at Griffin? Just because they were playing bad against Memphis and will likely just get swept in the playoffs?

I think they had lost like 4 in a row before that. The looked firmly in the 6th spot and now were barely hanging on to that 8th spot. But they have another easy game I think tomorrow against a tanking team (I think) and could maybe still end up as high as 6th since it's so close. And likely even if they lost tonight, if they won tomorrow they'd probably have knocked Charlotte out. They may play NY tomorrow.

Hornets have the tiebreaker, so unless the Hornets lost to Miami, the Pistons would be out.

I'm just going by the turmoil the Pistons had earlier in the season and if they blew their lead in a weak east, it shows they've basically peaked as a team. They won't have cap room to improve. This is their team. I just don't see them keeping this squad together, even if it's not Griffin that they trade.