2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes

[darealjuice]

I was peaking around ESPN's RPM and hadn't realized that Kelly Oubre was rated #449 in RPM and #493 in D-RPM out of 520 for this past season. Obviously not the end all be all stat, but probably not where you'd like to see a guy that will be looking for a big contract next year.

[bwgood77]

I was peaking around ESPN's RPM and hadn't realized that Kelly Oubre was rated #449 in RPM and #493 in D-RPM out of 520 for this past season. Obviously not the end all be all stat, but probably not where you'd like to see a guy that will be looking for a big contract next year.

Yeah, I saw that earlier and was shocked, despite never thinking he was quite as impactful on court as his raw #s suggest (disregarding the energy/locker room stuff that might be infectious and help the team in other ways).

But if you look at the other people at the bottom, most of them seem for the most part, pretty accurate, as well as the top (again, for the most part) and the rest of the Suns look pretty properly ranked as well.

Oubre does fare better in stuff like RAPTOR, though that might have it's problems too, given it's valuatons on players (Bridges 5 year value higher than Booker, etc).

[bwgood77]

Man. Windhorst confirmed my suspicions that Sarver is rumored to be cutting spending for the upcoming season. Wants to slash salary... The interview was on Bickley & Marotta on 98.7 today.

I mean this seemed pretty obvious. I imagine we work at right around the cap. I wouldn't have been surprised if he stays under it, but that extra money usually goes to players pro rata anyway.

I just hope he doesn't sell our pick. Since you can only sell picks for like $3 million, I don't think he would sell #10, but can see us trading it to save money on the season. However a rookie contract for cost control purposes would be good long term thinking.

If Sarver starts this crap again then I will be done with this team. I understand why he may sell the pick but its short-sighted moves that usually lead to bad decisions later on. Which will eventually lead to Monty and James Jones being hampered and eventually fired.

As much as I like some of the players in the draft, and think it's good to stagger when rookie deals expire, if he was able to deal it for a pick next year (at least what will likely be at worst a middle of the pack pick, then I wouldn't mind it too much since it is supposed to be a much stronger draft. Though last time (or one time) he did that we basically traded Deng or Iguodala for Nate Robinson. like 6th or 7th pick in good draft for what ended up like being 19th pick.

[Saberestar]

What do you think is the ranking of priority of teams targeting these bigs with their MLE?

Baynes
Marc Gasol
Serge Ibaka
Derrick Favors

1- Ibaka will get way more than MLE money.

He averages over 15 points and 8 rebounds, great defender who is versatile enough to play PF or C.

I think he will get around $50M / 3 years.

2- Marc Gasol is way older, but he is good yet, so I think he will receive a two year deal. $30M / 2 years. Probably that second year being only partially guaranteed.

3/4- Baynes and Favors... MLE money. Around $18M / 2 years.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I was peaking around ESPN's RPM and hadn't realized that Kelly Oubre was rated #449 in RPM and #493 in D-RPM out of 520 for this past season. Obviously not the end all be all stat, but probably not where you'd like to see a guy that will be looking for a big contract next year.

Yeah, I saw that earlier and was shocked, despite never thinking he was quite as impactful on court as his raw #s suggest (disregarding the energy/locker room stuff that might be infectious and help the team in other ways).

But if you look at the other people at the bottom, most of them seem for the most part, pretty accurate, as well as the top (again, for the most part) and the rest of the Suns look pretty properly ranked as well.

Oubre does fare better in stuff like RAPTOR, though that might have it's problems too, given it's valuatons on players (Bridges 5 year value higher than Booker, etc).

One interesting oubre stat when he was on the floor with Rubio and any other lineup combo he was a +5.8 per 100 possessions which is good. When he played without Rubio his net rating was awful.

Oubre and Jerome were actually the worst two man combo for the suns with -26.6 in about 100 minutes together. Oubres 2 man ratings with all the **** backup PGs were pretty much bad.

My take away, oubre needs a good PG on the court with him to be effective.

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[cberry78]

What do you think is the ranking of priority of teams targeting these bigs with their MLE?

Baynes
Marc Gasol
Serge Ibaka
Derrick Favors

I think Favors is 4th on the list
would he make sense with Ayton as a back up Center

There are going to be deals this offseason. Maybe Windhorst is right that Sarver is going to strip it down or maybe they just spend a bit more cautiously.

I don't mean just for us, but for all teams?

Ibaka
Gasol
Baynes (close 3rd)
Favors

I wouldn't mind Favors for the MLE if we go with a guard in the draft. For one or 2 years he might not be a bad option as a big body backup at the 4 or 5 (he's still only 29 and has some experience with Rubio too).

[bwgood77]

What do you think is the ranking of priority of teams targeting these bigs with their MLE?

Baynes
Marc Gasol
Serge Ibaka
Derrick Favors

1- Ibaka will get way more than MLE money.

He averages over 15 points and 8 rebounds, great defender who is versatile enough to play PF or C.

I think he will get around $50M / 3 years.

2- Marc Gasol is way older, but he is good yet, so I think he will receive a two year deal. $30M / 2 years. Probably that second year being only partially guaranteed.

3/4- Baynes and Favors... MLE money. Around $18M / 2 years.

That's far more than Baynes has made, and despite his improvement, he was injured a bit..and then less money available...will be interesting to see what he gets. I'd rather keep him than Saric if both wanted like 3 years if he was like half the price (like $5 million vs $10 million) and Cam and Oubre being able to play the 4. Pre bubble I would have easily picked Baynes, and I think most here would have...so it's interesting.

I also wonder about the 1 years deals...if these guys would like that with so much more money in the offseason and hopefully mostly post COVID, etc, so more willingness to spend all that cap space...though Baynes is old.

Your salaries for Gasol and Serge...who will pay them? You think Toronto pays one? I think with both of them, FVV and Boucher, they have about $23 million in cap space, not counting a draft pick cap hold, though that will be very low with the 29th pick.

Who do you think is their biggest priority FA? Or ranking?

[Barkley6]

I think Favors is 4th on the list
would he make sense with Ayton as a back up Center

There are going to be deals this offseason. Maybe Windhorst is right that Sarver is going to strip it down or maybe they just spend a bit more cautiously.

I don't mean just for us, but for all teams?

Ibaka
Gasol
Baynes (close 3rd)
Favors

I wouldn't mind Favors for the MLE if we go with a guard in the draft. For one or 2 years he might not be a bad option as a big body backup at the 4 or 5 (he's still only 29 and has some experience with Rubio too).

I would rather go get Jahlil Okafor for the BAE than any of those four tbh. Mostly because he's still young, fits well with our group, and won't be expensive. Then we could use the MLE on a backup guard.

[TeamTragic]

This team has actual chemistry now. Why move Cam, our pick and dump Oubre? That doesn't make any sense even though Simmons would be a really great addition.

****

[Barkley6]

I have a question for those of you better at the salary cap than I am:

Let's say the Suns go into the offseason as an over the cap team, and keep their holds on Baynes, Carter and Saric.

They dole out the MLE and BAE, but then one or all of Baynes, Carter and Saric sign elsewhere and their respective cap hold is removed...

Does that free up salary cap space then? Or can the Suns not spend that money?

Thanks!

[WeekapaugGroove]

I have a question for those of you better at the salary cap than I am:

Let's say the Suns go into the offseason as an over the cap team, and keep their holds on Baynes, Carter and Saric.

They dole out the MLE and BAE, but then one or all of Baynes, Carter and Saric sign elsewhere and their respective cap hold is removed...

Does that free up salary cap space then? Or can the Suns not spend that money?

Thanks!

I was asking this same thing earlier this week and Larry Coon actually had a tweet about something similar.

From what I gather you can't actually sign the MLE until you are over the cap with actual contracts not the holds. Now this does seem to screw a team over who falls right in the window of having cap space that's less than the MLE, they could sign a player with the space then use the Room MLE but that room MLE is only $5mil and I don't think can be combined with cap space.

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[cberry78]

I don't mean just for us, but for all teams?

Ibaka
Gasol
Baynes (close 3rd)
Favors

I wouldn't mind Favors for the MLE if we go with a guard in the draft. For one or 2 years he might not be a bad option as a big body backup at the 4 or 5 (he's still only 29 and has some experience with Rubio too).

I would rather go get Jahlil Okafor for the BAE than any of those four tbh. Mostly because he's still young, fits well with our group, and won't be expensive. Then we could use the MLE on a backup guard.

Oh I totally agree......but what happened to Okafor? Such a great rookie season, then nothing.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Ibaka
Gasol
Baynes (close 3rd)
Favors

I wouldn't mind Favors for the MLE if we go with a guard in the draft. For one or 2 years he might not be a bad option as a big body backup at the 4 or 5 (he's still only 29 and has some experience with Rubio too).

I would rather go get Jahlil Okafor for the BAE than any of those four tbh. Mostly because he's still young, fits well with our group, and won't be expensive. Then we could use the MLE on a backup guard.

Oh I totally agree......but what happened to Okafor? Such a great rookie season, then nothing.

He was born about 20 years too late.

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[Barkley6]

I would rather go get Jahlil Okafor for the BAE than any of those four tbh. Mostly because he's still young, fits well with our group, and won't be expensive. Then we could use the MLE on a backup guard.

Oh I totally agree......but what happened to Okafor? Such a great rookie season, then nothing.

He was born about 20 years too late.

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His game isn't really designed for the modern perimeter focused NBA. He's not a floor spacer at all. But I think in the right situation, with the right team around him, he can be a good asset. He's a decent enough passer, so if you put him on the floor with a bunch of shooters, you'd probably end up with some good results. If you ran a lineup of Payne, Carter, Cam, Saric and Okafor you'd be in fine shape.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Oh I totally agree......but what happened to Okafor? Such a great rookie season, then nothing.

He was born about 20 years too late.

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His game isn't really designed for the modern perimeter focused NBA. He's not a floor spacer at all. But I think in the right situation, with the right team around him, he can be a good asset. He's a decent enough passer, so if you put him on the floor with a bunch of shooters, you'd probably end up with some good results. If you ran a lineup of Payne, Carter, Cam, Saric and Okafor you'd be in fine shape.

His problem is more on D, teams hunt him out and pick and roll his ass to death. I wouldn't hate taking a cheap flyer on him as an emergency guy with some size if they bring Saric back as the primary backup C. You just could never trust him in a playoff series because that's when smart teams find a defensive weakness and exploit it over and over until you take him off the floor. We've seen this with Kanter at times in his career.

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[sunskerr]

I will try to make a decent post here soon about the Simmons rumor after the Mavs-Clips game. Just be aware there are some biiiiig question marks with Simmons being on this squad (no none of them have to do with Kendall Jenner).

[Ghost of Kleine]

Here is another from me

Oubre ,filler & Pick 10 for Levert, Dinwiddie, 2nd

sign payne, sign baynes 1 year, saric and carter
Jerome (g league) lecque G league

rubio, dinwiddie, payne
Booker, Carter
Johnson, Levert
bridges, Saric, 2nd
Ayton, Baynes, 2nd

I like the idea of pursing one of Levert or Dinwidde. I dont think there is any way they trade both (or even one of them) as they are on great contracts. Oubre for Dinwiddie might be most realistic with how Levert has played in the bubble. I would do that then draft Vassell or Saddiq Bey.

I'm definitely open to that!
But...............IF we do, Then we really need to somehow sneak Nik Claxton into the deal. Have you seen my post on him, Or the video assessment? He's literally 7 ft, with guard skills, An improving perimeter game. Has elite defensive potential, And incredible fluidity too. He's only making 898,000 and is currently their 3rd string 4/5. Lastly he's got the same measurements and wingspan as Giannis. 6'11 with a 7'3 wingspan and a 36 inch vertical!!

I really want to get him as Kaminskys' replacement. And as a very long, switchable, 4/5 with Elite defensive versatility!
I'd even do :
Oubre/ Jerome/ Kaminsky/10th pick
For
Dinwiddie/ Claxton/ 19th/55th pick.
-Dinwiddie becomes our backup guard.
- **Claxton ** ( replaces Kaminsky, backup 4/5).
19- Draft Tyler Bey. ( backup 3/4).
55- Draft Sam Merrill. ( elite perimeter shooting 6th man) basically Kennard 2.0
Then resign Baynes to a 1yr deal( MLE).
And Saric to a 16/2 ( 2nd year team option).

[Ghost of Kleine]

Just looked at that 2021 FA class... nobodies coming here lets be real.

Giannis, PG13, Kawahi, Lebron, CP3 ..... they aren't coming to PHX

Got to trade for a star to put next to book !!

Trading is the only way to get a star NOT FA

Look at some of the tier 2 and 3 free agents. Some pretty likeable names out there. If we don't land a super star, we could add 2 tier 2 or 3 FAs and still improve significantly.

And this is probably the most likely plan!

[Ghost of Kleine]

Detroit doesn't make sense

I meant to say Cleveland doesn't make sense. Detroit does make sense so I can't remember his reasoning there.

I agree with you. I really think that they're hoping for Deni to make it to 5, So they can draft him. Otherwise they'll likely choose Okoro. As he's currently a better passer, ballhandler that can help them.

[phx#7]

Not sure how I missed this.
What do people think of this idea?
I really don't think I'd do it. Not to say the offers aren't fair but the dude can't shoot and is scared to try. Meanwhile, we'd then lose our best shooter in the trade.

Last Word on Pro Basketball had the Suns giving up Kelly Oubre Jr., Cameron Johnson and first-round draft picks in 2020 and 2020 for Simmons and Mike Scott.

Tyler Marling wrote: "This deal could very well be a bad move for Simmons. Opposed to being paired up with Embiid, he is a part of a triumvirate with budding superstar Devin Booker and Embiid clone Deandre Ayton. For the Phoenix Suns, however, this is a risk they are willing to take. They lose Kelly Oubre Jr., who has become a very good player on the wing and Cameron Johnson, who provides excellent shooting. However, they add a proven All-Star in Simmons. They also receive Mike Scott. Scott is a throw in to make salaries work. However, he also can provide a solid scoring punch off of the bench. The 76ers get back two excellent wing players who are both excellent shooters, especially Johnson. They also add the number 10 pick in the 2020 NBA Draft, which they could package with their own pick (21st) to move up to select a point guard. Oubre Jr. can be a solid number two or number three option to Embiid with Tobias Harris also providing scoring punch in those roles."

MORE:The unfounded Booker trade speculation has returned

The Game Haus suggested Phoenix trading Ricky Rubio, Kelly Oubre, Cameron Johnson and the team's No. 10 pick in the 2020 NBA draft for Simmons

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2020/08/24/ben-simmons-trade-speculation-phoenix-suns-included-76-ers-chatter/5627183002/

I love Cam and oubre but I'd do that deal in a heartbeat. You contend with elite players and Simmons is an elite player. Him and Bridges would be a monster defensive combo at the F spots.

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Yeah, I really can't see how any Suns fan could be against that trade. Simmons is an All-NBA caliber 24 year old guard and the Suns aren't even including a top 3 asset. Total no brainer, also not possible until after free agency starts because Simmons is a PPP player until the new league year starts and there is no way to make salaries work without a 3rd team to offset the cap impact.