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2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22

Initial thoughts on KD for Bridges, Cam, Crowder, plus picks?

Love it!
15
25%
Indifferent
3
5%
Hate it
24
39%
Wait and see...
19
31%
 
Total votes: 61

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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1241 » by BobbieL » Thu Feb 2, 2023 6:47 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Six big trades we want to see at the 2023 NBA trade deadline

Crowder finds a new home, Part 1
Brooklyn Nets get: Jae Crowder
Phoenix Suns get: Seth Curry, Kessler Edwards, two second-round picks

The Jae Crowder situation has dragged on all season long, with Phoenix effectively having to play down a man despite dealing with all sorts of injuries along the way. It's untenable for that to last through the deadline.

At the same time, if the price Phoenix was looking for was one teams were willing to pay, this saga would've ended months ago. Thus, we find ourselves at an impasse.

Brooklyn can at least give Phoenix a good player in Seth Curry, who can space the floor around Devin Booker and play off the ball. Curry's contract is up after this season and Edwards has a team option for 2023-24, which, along with the extra second-round picks, would leave Phoenix with more options in the future as Mat Ishbia gets set to take over as owner.

The Nets, meanwhile, need another rugged forward to be able to throw out there in playoff games. Brooklyn can't win a size battle with, say, Joel Embiid. Instead, the Nets need to lean into what they are and put more length, quickness and switchable defenders alongside Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. Crowder, in theory, can provide that. And if the Nets add Crowder, Curry becomes even less likely to be part of a closing lineup in a playoff game in Brooklyn.

-- Tim Bontemps

Pascal to Phoenix
Toronto Raptors get: Deandre Ayton, Dario Saric, 2023 Phoenix first-round pick, 2026 swap rights, 2027 Phoenix first-round pick (top-10 protected in 2027, top-4 protected in 2028, unprotected in 2029)
Phoenix Suns get: Pascal Siakam

With Ishbia expected to have his purchase of the Suns finalized within the next week, as reported by ESPN's Baxter Holmes and Adrian Wojnarowski, let's get bold in Phoenix to take advantage of the team's remaining window with Chris Paul at point guard.

Siakam would give Phoenix another shot creator on offense to complement Devin Booker as well as a Swiss army knife on defense. The Suns could start traditional lineups with Siakam at power forward next to either Bismack Biyombo or Jock Landale, their remaining centers, but would surely finish games with Siakam in the middle flanked by Cam Johnson -- a unit that could switch any pick and would provide ample floor spacing for its stars to create one-on-one.

By including Saric, Phoenix would actually cut this year's luxury tax bill by at least $10 million, though Ishbia would have to be prepared for a larger payroll in 2023-24, when Saric's contract is up. Siakam will make about $5 million more than Ayton next season.

For the Raptors to make this trade while getting a weaker package of draft picks than what the San Antonio Spurs got for Dejounte Murray would require them to value Ayton as a key part of the return. Although Ayton's development in Phoenix seems to have been stalled, an athletic 7-footer would fill a need in Toronto's slumping defense.

The Raptors also get younger by swapping Siakam, who will turn 29 in April, for the 24-year-old Ayton. And they forestall the possibility of Siakam making an All-NBA team this season and becoming eligible for a supermax extension.

-- Kevin Pelton

Crowder finds a new home, Part 2
Phoenix Suns get: Patrick Beverley, Wenyen Gabriel and Juan Toscano-Anderson
Los Angeles Lakers get: Jae Crowder and Cameron Payne

The Suns are currently getting nothing from Crowder, whom they sent home before the season began. They reportedly would like to trade him, but have no interest in long contracts even when attached to reasonable young talent. Beverley, Gabriel and Toscano-Anderson are all on expiring contracts, like Crowder, while Payne still has three years remaining on his deal.

Beverley would replace Payne as the primary backup lead guard behind Chris Paul. Payne has struggled with injuries for the past couple months, as has Paul. Beverley has shown he can coexist with Russell Westbrook, so he should be able to make it work with Paul as well, despite their history. Beverley brings an attitude, and injects grittiness and defense on a teamwide level. Beverley has the second-highest Defensive Real Plus-Minus score among point guards -- the fifth best among guards overall -- and would help give the Suns a defensive edge that they've lacked all season with Crowder out.

Gabriel and Toscano-Anderson are long, athletic wing/forward types who have shown they can contribute as rotation role players. With the way that injuries have rocked the Suns this season, healthy role players in the frontcourt provide tangible value as well for a team that still has postseason aspirations.

Beverley is redundant on the Lakers, with both Westbrook and Dennis Schroder playing well and LeBron James as the de facto point guard. Their well-documented need is shooting, and Crowder would immediately fill the glue guy/3-and-D forward role that he has perfected in recent seasons. Crowder has knocked down two 3-pointers per game on average in his past five seasons. When healthy, Payne would also give them 3-point shooting as a backup perimeter guard, and with the Lakers' salary-cap situation, having him signed for an additional two seasons after this one would be a plus for them.

-- Snellings


https://www.espn.com/nba/



1) Good - very good. Realistic. With the status of Shamet and Payne - I like Curry. Much better than Eric Gordon

2) thats a lot of draft picks - -but what the heck - Siakam has been fantastic this year

3) vomit emoji x 100
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1242 » by Jdiddy701 » Thu Feb 2, 2023 6:48 pm

Desertfox wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:
Sunlight wrote:
Ayton has never had an elite or even a solid true power forward supporting him yet. The same guys who are criticizing Ayton are always putting haystack-like CamJ next to him. At the same time Booker has one of the best defender(Mikal) in the league and one of the best point guard(CP3) of all time supporting him. :noway:

My question is who’s a solid PF in todays NBA? IMO, Crowder is the perfect PF next to Ayton. A traditional PF who does most of their work in the paint would only make Ayton worse. I’m not sure there’s any PF in the league that would make Ayton better. A player with all the tools that Ayton has should excel with guys like CP3 and Booker.


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Markannen, which we could have had for almost nothing... if only JJ realized he was the GM.

How could JJ have had Markannen? The Cavs received Donovan Mitchell for him. Lol


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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1243 » by Desertfox » Thu Feb 2, 2023 6:53 pm

Not that trade, the one before.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1244 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Feb 2, 2023 6:53 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Desertfox wrote:I'll just point out that Ayton was killing it as the #2 next to Booker when CP3 went down. All we need is a solid PF and PG that dont have injury concerns next to our core of Booker, Ayton, and Mikal and a solid bench.
This belief has been debated for 1000+ pages around here. There are some like yourself who think Ayton can be that second star moving forward and those like myself who just don't see it.

While it gets tedious and repetitive it is a worthwhile thing to debate because the success of that second star (whomever it is) is likely to the the determining factor for the success of the team in the future.

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Maybe he can, maybe he can't, but how realistic is it to trade for a star, and who exactly are the stars? What is the threshhold. Are you saying Brown and Middleton are stars? Harden still star level? Who is Denver's second star? Is JJJ a star?

Which teams aside from the LAL, LAC and BKN have two stars in your opinion. Atlanta?
Yeah I would say that Brown, Middleton, Jrue type tier.

If we're being real real here the suns probably need a touch higher caliber guy because as good as Booker is he's not quite in the truly elite Giannis level tier. And historically there are very few teams to actually win a title without an uber super star. If the suns had pulled it off two years ago they would have been an outlyer. Now I hate viewing the league like this because it kind of gets hopeless.

You always ask who's going to be available. My answer is always the same, it's the NBA every god damn summer some guys become available and change teams. We'll see who it is in a few months.

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2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1245 » by Jdiddy701 » Thu Feb 2, 2023 6:56 pm

Desertfox wrote:Not that trade, the one before.

Ahh got it. I forgot honestly about Marrkenen, he definitely is the perfect PF next to DA, but there’s not a lot of them. I think Crowder was fine.


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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1246 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Feb 2, 2023 6:56 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Six big trades we want to see at the 2023 NBA trade deadline

Crowder finds a new home, Part 1
Brooklyn Nets get: Jae Crowder
Phoenix Suns get: Seth Curry, Kessler Edwards, two second-round picks

The Jae Crowder situation has dragged on all season long, with Phoenix effectively having to play down a man despite dealing with all sorts of injuries along the way. It's untenable for that to last through the deadline.

At the same time, if the price Phoenix was looking for was one teams were willing to pay, this saga would've ended months ago. Thus, we find ourselves at an impasse.

Brooklyn can at least give Phoenix a good player in Seth Curry, who can space the floor around Devin Booker and play off the ball. Curry's contract is up after this season and Edwards has a team option for 2023-24, which, along with the extra second-round picks, would leave Phoenix with more options in the future as Mat Ishbia gets set to take over as owner.

The Nets, meanwhile, need another rugged forward to be able to throw out there in playoff games. Brooklyn can't win a size battle with, say, Joel Embiid. Instead, the Nets need to lean into what they are and put more length, quickness and switchable defenders alongside Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. Crowder, in theory, can provide that. And if the Nets add Crowder, Curry becomes even less likely to be part of a closing lineup in a playoff game in Brooklyn.

-- Tim Bontemps

Pascal to Phoenix
Toronto Raptors get: Deandre Ayton, Dario Saric, 2023 Phoenix first-round pick, 2026 swap rights, 2027 Phoenix first-round pick (top-10 protected in 2027, top-4 protected in 2028, unprotected in 2029)
Phoenix Suns get: Pascal Siakam

With Ishbia expected to have his purchase of the Suns finalized within the next week, as reported by ESPN's Baxter Holmes and Adrian Wojnarowski, let's get bold in Phoenix to take advantage of the team's remaining window with Chris Paul at point guard.

Siakam would give Phoenix another shot creator on offense to complement Devin Booker as well as a Swiss army knife on defense. The Suns could start traditional lineups with Siakam at power forward next to either Bismack Biyombo or Jock Landale, their remaining centers, but would surely finish games with Siakam in the middle flanked by Cam Johnson -- a unit that could switch any pick and would provide ample floor spacing for its stars to create one-on-one.

By including Saric, Phoenix would actually cut this year's luxury tax bill by at least $10 million, though Ishbia would have to be prepared for a larger payroll in 2023-24, when Saric's contract is up. Siakam will make about $5 million more than Ayton next season.

For the Raptors to make this trade while getting a weaker package of draft picks than what the San Antonio Spurs got for Dejounte Murray would require them to value Ayton as a key part of the return. Although Ayton's development in Phoenix seems to have been stalled, an athletic 7-footer would fill a need in Toronto's slumping defense.

The Raptors also get younger by swapping Siakam, who will turn 29 in April, for the 24-year-old Ayton. And they forestall the possibility of Siakam making an All-NBA team this season and becoming eligible for a supermax extension.

-- Kevin Pelton

Crowder finds a new home, Part 2
Phoenix Suns get: Patrick Beverley, Wenyen Gabriel and Juan Toscano-Anderson
Los Angeles Lakers get: Jae Crowder and Cameron Payne

The Suns are currently getting nothing from Crowder, whom they sent home before the season began. They reportedly would like to trade him, but have no interest in long contracts even when attached to reasonable young talent. Beverley, Gabriel and Toscano-Anderson are all on expiring contracts, like Crowder, while Payne still has three years remaining on his deal.

Beverley would replace Payne as the primary backup lead guard behind Chris Paul. Payne has struggled with injuries for the past couple months, as has Paul. Beverley has shown he can coexist with Russell Westbrook, so he should be able to make it work with Paul as well, despite their history. Beverley brings an attitude, and injects grittiness and defense on a teamwide level. Beverley has the second-highest Defensive Real Plus-Minus score among point guards -- the fifth best among guards overall -- and would help give the Suns a defensive edge that they've lacked all season with Crowder out.

Gabriel and Toscano-Anderson are long, athletic wing/forward types who have shown they can contribute as rotation role players. With the way that injuries have rocked the Suns this season, healthy role players in the frontcourt provide tangible value as well for a team that still has postseason aspirations.

Beverley is redundant on the Lakers, with both Westbrook and Dennis Schroder playing well and LeBron James as the de facto point guard. Their well-documented need is shooting, and Crowder would immediately fill the glue guy/3-and-D forward role that he has perfected in recent seasons. Crowder has knocked down two 3-pointers per game on average in his past five seasons. When healthy, Payne would also give them 3-point shooting as a backup perimeter guard, and with the Lakers' salary-cap situation, having him signed for an additional two seasons after this one would be a plus for them.

-- Snellings


https://www.espn.com/nba/


All of these trades are pretty bad for Phoenix in terms of value! The first trade obviously being the most reasonable, and the Siakim trade being the most absurd as Siakim as good as he is absolutely is not that much better than Ayton to actually warrant Ayton/ filler and 4 FREAKIN FIRSTS!!!! At best Siakim is maybe worth Ayton and 1 first but not anything beyond that! And who in the suns front office would legitimately promote trading for Beverly after all of his negative shenanigans and thuggery against the suns over the years! That'd be the ultimate statement that they endorsed being sh**canned promptly after!
These guys have to figure out better frameworks that actually benefit both teams or at least not just the team not named Phoenix. :-?
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1247 » by bwgood77 » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:05 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:This belief has been debated for 1000+ pages around here. There are some like yourself who think Ayton can be that second star moving forward and those like myself who just don't see it.

While it gets tedious and repetitive it is a worthwhile thing to debate because the success of that second star (whomever it is) is likely to the the determining factor for the success of the team in the future.

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Maybe he can, maybe he can't, but how realistic is it to trade for a star, and who exactly are the stars? What is the threshhold. Are you saying Brown and Middleton are stars? Harden still star level? Who is Denver's second star? Is JJJ a star?

Which teams aside from the LAL, LAC and BKN have two stars in your opinion. Atlanta?
Yeah I would say that Brown, Middleton, Jrue type tier.

If we're being real real here the suns probably need a touch higher caliber guy because as good as Booker is he's not quite in the truly elite Giannis level tier. And historically there are very few teams to actually win a title without an uber super star. If the suns had pulled it off two years ago they would have been an outlyer. Now I hate viewing the league like this because it kind of gets hopeless.

You always ask who's going to be available. My answer is always the same, it's the NBA every god damn summer some guys become available and change teams. We'll see who it is in a few months.

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Yeah, if you are talking a Jrue type player, I think one may become available. LaVine, perhaps Siakam, OG. Most of the stars traded though require a huge haul though. George required Shai, Gallo and tons of picks/swaps. AD required Ingram, Ball and tons of picks/swaps. Even a guy like Gobert required 5 picks.

I guess if we view Ayton on the Shai/Ingram level we might get one. And maybe Siakam, since he is older, and we like older players (or have under Jones).

Curious what Ishbia's view on trading multiple picks are. If he realizes most all of the contenders outside of the LA teams and BKN built through the draft. I wonder if that is his view or if he will bank on the hope of a huge trade to a team that isn't one of those enormous markets. Sure they happen but it's usually a haul, and whether we have assets that trump other offers.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1248 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:05 pm

Read on Twitter

I've said it before, What the raps really want is Ayton to play alongside of Siakim in a frontcourt of Barnes and Siakim. So we absolutely wouldn't be getting Siakim back in any Ayton deal as they're just not looking for a swap! We'd at best get back something like Van Vleet/ Boucher/ Maybe Achiuwa? And IF lucky, maybe a draft asset (but more likely not) because Masai would fleece Jones! :-?
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1249 » by bwgood77 » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:10 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Six big trades we want to see at the 2023 NBA trade deadline

Crowder finds a new home, Part 1
Brooklyn Nets get: Jae Crowder
Phoenix Suns get: Seth Curry, Kessler Edwards, two second-round picks

The Jae Crowder situation has dragged on all season long, with Phoenix effectively having to play down a man despite dealing with all sorts of injuries along the way. It's untenable for that to last through the deadline.

At the same time, if the price Phoenix was looking for was one teams were willing to pay, this saga would've ended months ago. Thus, we find ourselves at an impasse.

Brooklyn can at least give Phoenix a good player in Seth Curry, who can space the floor around Devin Booker and play off the ball. Curry's contract is up after this season and Edwards has a team option for 2023-24, which, along with the extra second-round picks, would leave Phoenix with more options in the future as Mat Ishbia gets set to take over as owner.

The Nets, meanwhile, need another rugged forward to be able to throw out there in playoff games. Brooklyn can't win a size battle with, say, Joel Embiid. Instead, the Nets need to lean into what they are and put more length, quickness and switchable defenders alongside Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. Crowder, in theory, can provide that. And if the Nets add Crowder, Curry becomes even less likely to be part of a closing lineup in a playoff game in Brooklyn.

-- Tim Bontemps

Pascal to Phoenix
Toronto Raptors get: Deandre Ayton, Dario Saric, 2023 Phoenix first-round pick, 2026 swap rights, 2027 Phoenix first-round pick (top-10 protected in 2027, top-4 protected in 2028, unprotected in 2029)
Phoenix Suns get: Pascal Siakam

With Ishbia expected to have his purchase of the Suns finalized within the next week, as reported by ESPN's Baxter Holmes and Adrian Wojnarowski, let's get bold in Phoenix to take advantage of the team's remaining window with Chris Paul at point guard.

Siakam would give Phoenix another shot creator on offense to complement Devin Booker as well as a Swiss army knife on defense. The Suns could start traditional lineups with Siakam at power forward next to either Bismack Biyombo or Jock Landale, their remaining centers, but would surely finish games with Siakam in the middle flanked by Cam Johnson -- a unit that could switch any pick and would provide ample floor spacing for its stars to create one-on-one.

By including Saric, Phoenix would actually cut this year's luxury tax bill by at least $10 million, though Ishbia would have to be prepared for a larger payroll in 2023-24, when Saric's contract is up. Siakam will make about $5 million more than Ayton next season.

For the Raptors to make this trade while getting a weaker package of draft picks than what the San Antonio Spurs got for Dejounte Murray would require them to value Ayton as a key part of the return. Although Ayton's development in Phoenix seems to have been stalled, an athletic 7-footer would fill a need in Toronto's slumping defense.

The Raptors also get younger by swapping Siakam, who will turn 29 in April, for the 24-year-old Ayton. And they forestall the possibility of Siakam making an All-NBA team this season and becoming eligible for a supermax extension.

-- Kevin Pelton

Crowder finds a new home, Part 2
Phoenix Suns get: Patrick Beverley, Wenyen Gabriel and Juan Toscano-Anderson
Los Angeles Lakers get: Jae Crowder and Cameron Payne

The Suns are currently getting nothing from Crowder, whom they sent home before the season began. They reportedly would like to trade him, but have no interest in long contracts even when attached to reasonable young talent. Beverley, Gabriel and Toscano-Anderson are all on expiring contracts, like Crowder, while Payne still has three years remaining on his deal.

Beverley would replace Payne as the primary backup lead guard behind Chris Paul. Payne has struggled with injuries for the past couple months, as has Paul. Beverley has shown he can coexist with Russell Westbrook, so he should be able to make it work with Paul as well, despite their history. Beverley brings an attitude, and injects grittiness and defense on a teamwide level. Beverley has the second-highest Defensive Real Plus-Minus score among point guards -- the fifth best among guards overall -- and would help give the Suns a defensive edge that they've lacked all season with Crowder out.

Gabriel and Toscano-Anderson are long, athletic wing/forward types who have shown they can contribute as rotation role players. With the way that injuries have rocked the Suns this season, healthy role players in the frontcourt provide tangible value as well for a team that still has postseason aspirations.

Beverley is redundant on the Lakers, with both Westbrook and Dennis Schroder playing well and LeBron James as the de facto point guard. Their well-documented need is shooting, and Crowder would immediately fill the glue guy/3-and-D forward role that he has perfected in recent seasons. Crowder has knocked down two 3-pointers per game on average in his past five seasons. When healthy, Payne would also give them 3-point shooting as a backup perimeter guard, and with the Lakers' salary-cap situation, having him signed for an additional two seasons after this one would be a plus for them.

-- Snellings


https://www.espn.com/nba/


All of these trades are pretty bad for Phoenix in terms of value! The first trade obviously being the most reasonable, and the Siakim trade being the most absurd as Siakim as good as he is absolutely is not that much better than Ayton to actually warrant Ayton/ filler and 4 FREAKIN FIRSTS!!!! At best Siakim is maybe worth Ayton and 1 first but not anything beyond that! And who in the suns front office would legitimately promote trading for Beverly after all of his negative shenanigans and thuggery against the suns over the years! That'd be the ultimate statement that they endorsed being sh**canned promptly after!
These guys have to figure out better frameworks that actually benefit both teams or at least not just the team not named Phoenix. :-?


It's probably only 2 picks (given the swap probably wouldn't happen). The biggest deterrent for me, is it sounds like the 23 pick would be unprotected, and if Book's groin isn't completely healed, he could injure it again and be out for the season (probably 50/50) and we would then be a lottery team.

Then the 2nd one becomes unprotected in 2029. That would be after a Siakam deal ends (and they could be gone), or he will be 35 and Booker 32.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1250 » by BobbieL » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:13 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


Without naming the players - hard to know

But if I had to guess - Gary Trent Jr and Boucher since an S&T with ayton was so tricky
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1251 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:15 pm

Desertfox wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Sunlight wrote:
Ayton has never had an elite or even a solid true power forward supporting him yet. The same guys who are criticizing Ayton are always putting haystack-like CamJ next to him. At the same time Booker has one of the best defender(Mikal) in the league and one of the best point guard(CP3) of all time supporting him. :noway:
To me if a guy needs specific conditions to be successful that basically eliminates them from me considering them a 'star' player.

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By that criteria Booker is not a star, since he needed CP3, Ayton, and Mikal to be successful. You could even add Lebron, since he needed the "superteam" to win. Plenty fo good players on bad teams that went nowhere cause they didnt have help...
Team success yes, but I was referring more towards individual success and Booker to me is a good example of how if you're really truly a special player you'll show that no matter the circumstances. He played in a **** show organization with bad young players and still popped off and managed to develop.

Now what separates the bookers from the all time greats level is they can actually drag a **** team to success.



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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1252 » by Qwigglez » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:15 pm

I could see the Raptors trading Siakam if they end up trading FVV, GTJ and Anunoby.. No reason to keep him around, and not likely that he'd want to stay anyway. However... he could want to stay just to secure that supermax. I could see that possibility.

But if Siakam did want out, could Suns get him and FVV? Would Ayton, Dario, Shamet and 3 unprotected 1st, plus the 2 pick swaps for Siakam and FVV be enough? Does that put the Suns over the edge? Who plays center :lol:
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1253 » by bwgood77 » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:22 pm

Qwigglez wrote:I could see the Raptors trading Siakam if they end up trading FVV, GTJ and Anunoby.. No reason to keep him around, and not likely that he'd want to stay anyway. However... he could want to stay just to secure that supermax. I could see that possibility.

But if Siakam did want out, could Suns get him and FVV? Would Ayton, Dario, Shamet and 3 unprotected 1st, plus the 2 pick swaps for Siakam and FVV be enough? Does that put the Suns over the edge? Who plays center :lol:


Maybe, but unprotected 1sts?

The main reason I see that as unlikely is because they would make $70-$75 million on top of Booker' super max, Bridges and Cam ($90 million or so). That's $160-$170 million for 5 players...and rebounding would probably be an issue...we'd be small in general, and have a hard time against the big teams or even just big time Cs. Toronto is one of the worst rebounding teams and they have a lot better other rebounders than we'd have.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1254 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:22 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Spoiler:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:


All of these trades are pretty bad for Phoenix in terms of value! The first trade obviously being the most reasonable, and the Siakim trade being the most absurd as Siakim as good as he is absolutely is not that much better than Ayton to actually warrant Ayton/ filler and 4 FREAKIN FIRSTS!!!! At best Siakim is maybe worth Ayton and 1 first but not anything beyond that! And who in the suns front office would legitimately promote trading for Beverly after all of his negative shenanigans and thuggery against the suns over the years! That'd be the ultimate statement that they endorsed being sh**canned promptly after!
These guys have to figure out better frameworks that actually benefit both teams or at least not just the team not named Phoenix. :-?


It's probably only 2 picks (given the swap probably wouldn't happen). The biggest deterrent for me, is it sounds like the 23 pick would be unprotected, and if Book's groin isn't completely healed, he could injure it again and be out for the season (probably 50/50) and we would then be a lottery team.

Then the 2nd one becomes unprotected in 2029. That would be after a Siakam deal ends (and they could be gone), or he will be 35 and Booker 32.


But then if we can agree that they obviously wouldn't be looking to swap Siakim for Ayton, then what in addition would we be adding two 1sts to Ayton for? Clearly Anunoby isn't worth Ayton + two firsts, I personally don't see him even having any additional value beyond (AT BEST) maybe an Ayton for Anunoby swap. And none of Van Vleet, Trent Jr or Boucher have more or even equal value to Ayton singularly. So what kind of package would still illicit an Ayton plus two first value outgoing absent of Siakim PLUS coming back? Some combination MAYBE of Van Vleet AND Anunoby? Or perhaps a Van Vleet/ Trent/ Anunoby for Ayton/Saric/Shamet/Payne deal? :dontknow:
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1255 » by bwgood77 » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:23 pm

I'm pretty surprised most wouldn't trade Cam and a first for OG.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1256 » by Jdiddy701 » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:29 pm

bwgood77 wrote:I'm pretty surprised most wouldn't trade Cam and a first for OG.

I would not, even with his struggles in the last few games. I don’t even think I’d trade Cam Johnson straight up for OG. I’m probably really undervaluing OG but I really enjoy watching Cam play, and he’s also a great person off the court. It’s kind of a toss up imo between the two, loyalty to Cam outweighs it for me. I don’t think we’ve seen the best of Cam Johnson yet.


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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1257 » by Fo-Real » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:30 pm

With the Raps, Ayton + Shamet for Vleet + Trent Jr + Achiuwa works as far as money. Could throw in Crowder for Thad if they want more salary relief. But I would guess they would want Cam Payne back needing a guard coming back. So maybe Ayton + Payne + Shamet for Vleet + Trent + Achiuwa + Thad?
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1258 » by bwgood77 » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:32 pm

I am also curious if Jones/Ishbia would even want Siakam at that price. He shoots 31.4% from 3 this year, 32% for his career, and his defense has fallen off big time. 538 has him as their worst defender by quite a bit in their starting lineup. Even worse than their guards. Now of course I take these with a grain of salt, but he was negative each of the last 3 years, and the worst by quite a bit this year. I know 538 was used for Ayton, but he was a pretty big positive on 538 for that the last 2 years. This year he has fallen off, but these +/- #s also rely on who you are playing with/against, and obviously that has changed drastically this year for him. It had him as a significantly better defender the last two years than Siakam, and the the same this year, despite playing in lineups with a bunch of backups in disarray on the defensive end.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1259 » by Blonde » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:34 pm

OG on Memphis or New Orleans would be terrifying.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions 

Post#1260 » by bwoolf2 » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:35 pm

BobbieL wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Six big trades we want to see at the 2023 NBA trade deadline

Crowder finds a new home, Part 1
Brooklyn Nets get: Jae Crowder
Phoenix Suns get: Seth Curry, Kessler Edwards, two second-round picks

The Jae Crowder situation has dragged on all season long, with Phoenix effectively having to play down a man despite dealing with all sorts of injuries along the way. It's untenable for that to last through the deadline.

At the same time, if the price Phoenix was looking for was one teams were willing to pay, this saga would've ended months ago. Thus, we find ourselves at an impasse.

Brooklyn can at least give Phoenix a good player in Seth Curry, who can space the floor around Devin Booker and play off the ball. Curry's contract is up after this season and Edwards has a team option for 2023-24, which, along with the extra second-round picks, would leave Phoenix with more options in the future as Mat Ishbia gets set to take over as owner.

The Nets, meanwhile, need another rugged forward to be able to throw out there in playoff games. Brooklyn can't win a size battle with, say, Joel Embiid. Instead, the Nets need to lean into what they are and put more length, quickness and switchable defenders alongside Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. Crowder, in theory, can provide that. And if the Nets add Crowder, Curry becomes even less likely to be part of a closing lineup in a playoff game in Brooklyn.

-- Tim Bontemps

Pascal to Phoenix
Toronto Raptors get: Deandre Ayton, Dario Saric, 2023 Phoenix first-round pick, 2026 swap rights, 2027 Phoenix first-round pick (top-10 protected in 2027, top-4 protected in 2028, unprotected in 2029)
Phoenix Suns get: Pascal Siakam

With Ishbia expected to have his purchase of the Suns finalized within the next week, as reported by ESPN's Baxter Holmes and Adrian Wojnarowski, let's get bold in Phoenix to take advantage of the team's remaining window with Chris Paul at point guard.

Siakam would give Phoenix another shot creator on offense to complement Devin Booker as well as a Swiss army knife on defense. The Suns could start traditional lineups with Siakam at power forward next to either Bismack Biyombo or Jock Landale, their remaining centers, but would surely finish games with Siakam in the middle flanked by Cam Johnson -- a unit that could switch any pick and would provide ample floor spacing for its stars to create one-on-one.

By including Saric, Phoenix would actually cut this year's luxury tax bill by at least $10 million, though Ishbia would have to be prepared for a larger payroll in 2023-24, when Saric's contract is up. Siakam will make about $5 million more than Ayton next season.

For the Raptors to make this trade while getting a weaker package of draft picks than what the San Antonio Spurs got for Dejounte Murray would require them to value Ayton as a key part of the return. Although Ayton's development in Phoenix seems to have been stalled, an athletic 7-footer would fill a need in Toronto's slumping defense.

The Raptors also get younger by swapping Siakam, who will turn 29 in April, for the 24-year-old Ayton. And they forestall the possibility of Siakam making an All-NBA team this season and becoming eligible for a supermax extension.

-- Kevin Pelton

Crowder finds a new home, Part 2
Phoenix Suns get: Patrick Beverley, Wenyen Gabriel and Juan Toscano-Anderson
Los Angeles Lakers get: Jae Crowder and Cameron Payne

The Suns are currently getting nothing from Crowder, whom they sent home before the season began. They reportedly would like to trade him, but have no interest in long contracts even when attached to reasonable young talent. Beverley, Gabriel and Toscano-Anderson are all on expiring contracts, like Crowder, while Payne still has three years remaining on his deal.

Beverley would replace Payne as the primary backup lead guard behind Chris Paul. Payne has struggled with injuries for the past couple months, as has Paul. Beverley has shown he can coexist with Russell Westbrook, so he should be able to make it work with Paul as well, despite their history. Beverley brings an attitude, and injects grittiness and defense on a teamwide level. Beverley has the second-highest Defensive Real Plus-Minus score among point guards -- the fifth best among guards overall -- and would help give the Suns a defensive edge that they've lacked all season with Crowder out.

Gabriel and Toscano-Anderson are long, athletic wing/forward types who have shown they can contribute as rotation role players. With the way that injuries have rocked the Suns this season, healthy role players in the frontcourt provide tangible value as well for a team that still has postseason aspirations.

Beverley is redundant on the Lakers, with both Westbrook and Dennis Schroder playing well and LeBron James as the de facto point guard. Their well-documented need is shooting, and Crowder would immediately fill the glue guy/3-and-D forward role that he has perfected in recent seasons. Crowder has knocked down two 3-pointers per game on average in his past five seasons. When healthy, Payne would also give them 3-point shooting as a backup perimeter guard, and with the Lakers' salary-cap situation, having him signed for an additional two seasons after this one would be a plus for them.

-- Snellings


https://www.espn.com/nba/



1) Good - very good. Realistic. With the status of Shamet and Payne - I like Curry. Much better than Eric Gordon

2) thats a lot of draft picks - -but what the heck - Siakam has been fantastic this year

3) vomit emoji x 100


Siakim problem is you won't be able to resign him he is going to be all nba and available for the supermax while I think ishbia will pay luxury tax he isn't paying hu dres of millions in tax

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