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The One And Only Offseason Thread 4

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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1261 » by tgtm_24 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:38 pm

JDLAW wrote:
Puff wrote:
NotTraxxe wrote:It's worth it to us to sign Bledsoe at the right price. And even if he hates us he can be traded for good assets at that price down the road when we look to tie up Dragic longterm.

Bledsoe at the Lowry deal would be a helluva a piece in a big deal down the road if he pans out.

We're willing to bet he we will not take the QO and the risk.

Better than a S&T and getting barely anything for him.


That makes good sense for our franchise but EB is fast becoming a player fans do not want in a Phoenix Suns uniform under any circumstance.

This has been a very unusual negotiation to say the least. I believe it has been common practice for the player looking for a max contract to either embrace his current team or voice his displeasure with his current environment and ask for a ticket out of town. Bledsoe's silence on this subject has been deafening.

Has there been any indication that he genuinely likes any of the current players, coaches or management? Does he like the fans or city of Phoenix? Would he like to live here and participate in community events? Why has he been so silent on these issues? He has been silent since he arrived from the Clippers, hasn't he?

Basically no one appears to know where he stands on many fronts other than he is demanding a maximum contract.

While that certainly is a huge part of his decision I do not know if I have ever seen a player with so little to say about his current team good or bad. It would seem as though it would be to his benefit if he did embrace the opportunity to play for this team long term. After all we are in the drivers seat at this point.

I understand that he is an asset that we cannot afford to lose for nothing but at some point we are going to have to move on.

On a side note Coro wrote today about the Morris brothers, Plumlee , Len, Goodwin and Tucker spending time on the practice court, in PHOENIX, since April to make themselves better for the upcoming season. That is good news . It would be even better if EB would be in attendance as well. That is what I hoped for after the season ended.

McDonough has his hands full.


Some good comments, but I believe the fans will re-embrace him if he signs. There were a lot of signs that he genuinely liked his teammates and coaches.


Exactly right. If he comes out and explains his business, says it's done and he's ready to help the team win, all will be forgiven, as long as he performs!
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1262 » by Sunsdeuce » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:42 pm

JDLAW wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:@ericsports: The Lakers are very high on Michael Beasley

Lol, I see what he did there.


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Oh great. The Lakers are tanking. Our pick goes up in smoke.


Don't fear, the NBA is changing the lottery to prevent the tankage we saw last year from the 76ers (who not surprisingly are against the changes) and the Bucks.

You got any details on the change? I heard about it but I don't know exactly how they were changing it. I say all teams that miss the playoffs have the same amount of ping pong balls. So it won't matter if you were the worst of the 14th worst. Equal shot.


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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1263 » by jcsunsfan » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:45 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:@ericsports: The Lakers are very high on Michael Beasley

Lol, I see what he did there.


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Oh great. The Lakers are tanking. Our pick goes up in smoke.

Not to worry. Kobe will cry and moan so much they will actually try and win games. We are probably looking at the 8-12 pick from the lakers. They will not be a playoff team but not bad enough to be in the worst 5 in the league.


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You all missed the vibe we were sharing there. . . Dude.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1264 » by JDLAW » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:49 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
JDLAW wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
Oh great. The Lakers are tanking. Our pick goes up in smoke.


Don't fear, the NBA is changing the lottery to prevent the tankage we saw last year from the 76ers (who not surprisingly are against the changes) and the Bucks.

You got any details on the change? I heard about it but I don't know exactly how they were changing it. I say all teams that miss the playoffs have the same amount of ping pong balls. So it won't matter if you were the worst of the 14th worst. Equal shot.


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That was the suggestion i made at the end of the year in another thread. Then NBA's version is a major flattening out of the odds - not quite equal, but much closer - and expanding those picks that are subject to the move. What i heard is that the 1st six picks will be chosen by lot. In other words cannot tank the whole season for pingpong balls any more because you might be picking mid lottery.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1265 » by Jarlaxle0204 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:50 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
JDLAW wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
Oh great. The Lakers are tanking. Our pick goes up in smoke.


Don't fear, the NBA is changing the lottery to prevent the tankage we saw last year from the 76ers (who not surprisingly are against the changes) and the Bucks.

You got any details on the change? I heard about it but I don't know exactly how they were changing it. I say all teams that miss the playoffs have the same amount of ping pong balls. So it won't matter if you were the worst of the 14th worst. Equal shot.


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Part of the problem with that is you might have teams that are on the edge of the playoffs who should be fighting for an 8th or 7th seed, tanking games just at a 1/14th shot at the number 1 pick. Those are not bad odds.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1266 » by JDLAW » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:51 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
Oh great. The Lakers are tanking. Our pick goes up in smoke.

Not to worry. Kobe will cry and moan so much they will actually try and win games. We are probably looking at the 8-12 pick from the lakers. They will not be a playoff team but not bad enough to be in the worst 5 in the league.


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You all missed the vibe we were sharing there. . . Dude.



No we didn't we got the vibe and moved on. i am hoping Beas is every bit as impactful for the lakers as he was for the Suns. :lol:
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1267 » by JDLAW » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:52 pm

Jarlaxle0204 wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
JDLAW wrote:
Don't fear, the NBA is changing the lottery to prevent the tankage we saw last year from the 76ers (who not surprisingly are against the changes) and the Bucks.

You got any details on the change? I heard about it but I don't know exactly how they were changing it. I say all teams that miss the playoffs have the same amount of ping pong balls. So it won't matter if you were the worst of the 14th worst. Equal shot.


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Part of the problem with that is you might have teams that are on the edge of the playoffs who should be fighting for an 8th or 7th seed, tanking games just at a 1/14th shot at the number 1 pick. Those are not bad odds.


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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1268 » by Kerrsed » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:27 pm

To be fair to Bledsoe, he hasnt come back to the Valley because he was busy coaching the Washington Generals to victory.

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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1269 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:32 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
JDLAW wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
Oh great. The Lakers are tanking. Our pick goes up in smoke.


Don't fear, the NBA is changing the lottery to prevent the tankage we saw last year from the 76ers (who not surprisingly are against the changes) and the Bucks.

You got any details on the change? I heard about it but I don't know exactly how they were changing it. I say all teams that miss the playoffs have the same amount of ping pong balls. So it won't matter if you were the worst of the 14th worst. Equal shot.

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The league’s proposal gives at least the four worst teams the same chance at winning the no. 1 pick: approximately an identical 11 percent shot for each club. The odds decline slowly from there, with the team in the next spot holding a 10 percent chance. The lottery team with the best record will have a 2 percent chance of leaping to the no. 1 pick, up from the the minuscule 0.5 percent chance it has under the current system.

The proposal also calls for the drawing of the first six picks via the Ping-Pong ball lottery, sources say. The current lottery system actually involves the drawing of only the top three selections. The rest of the lottery goes in order of record, from worst to best, after the top-three drawing is over.


Basically your odds go down about 1 percentage point per slot starting with the fifth worst team. But the worst team could EASILY end up with the 7th pick in this scenario. The other three bad teams win three picks and teams with 10, 9, and 8 % chances could easily snag the other three spots....odds of that happening are pretty good.

So tanking really only guarantees you the 7th pick IF you get the worst record. If you tank and get the 4th worst, you could still end up with the 10th pick.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1270 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:41 pm

Jarlaxle0204 wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
JDLAW wrote:
Don't fear, the NBA is changing the lottery to prevent the tankage we saw last year from the 76ers (who not surprisingly are against the changes) and the Bucks.

You got any details on the change? I heard about it but I don't know exactly how they were changing it. I say all teams that miss the playoffs have the same amount of ping pong balls. So it won't matter if you were the worst of the 14th worst. Equal shot.


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Part of the problem with that is you might have teams that are on the edge of the playoffs who should be fighting for an 8th or 7th seed, tanking games just at a 1/14th shot at the number 1 pick. Those are not bad odds.


No, not quite...the last few teams that don't make it will still only have about a 2-4% chance. But like the 8th worst team will have about a 7% chance, not too much smaller than the worst team having an 11% chance.

I think this could very well make it more unlikely we get the Lakers pick. At least we knew they would try and compete, but here they could try and compete, end up the 8th worst and still have almost as good as chance as anyone of getting a top 5 pick.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1271 » by JMac1 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:48 am

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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1272 » by QuickLikeTheo » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:27 am

Sunsdeuce wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:Please, some team please, offer Eric a contract. Who cares, make it 4/55 or whatever. Just do something so that we can match and move on from this silly situation.

Nothing against Bledsoe (and I know you can't compare sports) but no way in hell should Bledsoe make more than Patrick Peterson (who is basically the face of the cardinals and a real franchise player).


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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1273 » by JTrain » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:38 am

They should just even out the odds a bit and do all 14 non-playoff teams with lottery picks.

Teams 1-3: 6 balls (10%)
Teams 4-6: 5 balls (8.3%)
Teams 7-9: 4 balls (6.7%)
Teams 10-12: 3 balls (5%)
Teams 13-14: 2 balls (3.3%)

There is very little incentive to tank with this. You could very easily go 0-82 and end up with the 14th pick. It still favors the worse teams over time, but the difference between the worst and, for example, the 8th worse are very little probability-wise in any given draft.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1274 » by BurningHeart » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:04 am

I've always said that the bottom half of the worst teams in the lotto get 2 balls and the others get 1 ball. Your proposal works too, and would cause less outrage.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1275 » by TheLoon » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:24 am

barring a sign and trade for something spectacular, Bledsoe will be a Sun this season...I haven't even commented on this particular circus because it's nonsense...either EB signs for something we're willing to pay him...12 mill per...maybe 14 if we're generous...or we sign and trade to Philly for 4 and 16 or 17...or...we sign and trade to another team for parts...any way we cut this we're gonna be fine...but in two weeks Bledsoe will take a 4 year 52 million deal from Phoenix...all he wants is 1 million more per than Lowery
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1276 » by Zelaznyrules » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:24 am

I've never understood the big deal about tanking? Who cares, let them tank. Why try and stop a team from doing what it perceives is in their best interest? I see nothing wrong with thinking strategically. I believe the reasoning behind tanking is flawed and it will die of it's own volition in a few years anyway.

If they absolutely feel the need to stop tanking, just incentivize teams to not do it. Let the system stand as it is but redistribute some TV postseason money from the worst non-playoff teams to the better non-playoff teams. In the end, nothing speaks louder than money.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1277 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:34 am

Zelaznyrules wrote:I've never understood the big deal about tanking? Who cares, let them tank. Why try and stop a team from doing what it perceives is in their best interest? I see nothing wrong with thinking strategically. I believe the reasoning behind tanking is flawed and it will die of it's own volition in a few years anyway.

If they absolutely feel the need to stop tanking, just incentivize teams to not do it. Let the system stand as it is but redistribute some TV postseason money from the worst non-playoff teams to the better non-playoff teams. In the end, nothing speaks louder than money.

It's not in the spirit of competition and if the NBA can do something to force teams from tanking, they will. You obviously don't care because it isn't your team, but the NBA has a reputation to uphold, which is that it's the best basketball league in the world. Having teams tanking would damage that reputation.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1278 » by Zelaznyrules » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:39 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Zelaznyrules wrote:I've never understood the big deal about tanking? Who cares, let them tank. Why try and stop a team from doing what it perceives is in their best interest? I see nothing wrong with thinking strategically. I believe the reasoning behind tanking is flawed and it will die of it's own volition in a few years anyway.

If they absolutely feel the need to stop tanking, just incentivize teams to not do it. Let the system stand as it is but redistribute some TV postseason money from the worst non-playoff teams to the better non-playoff teams. In the end, nothing speaks louder than money.


It's not in the spirit of competition and if the NBA can do something to force teams from tanking, they will. You obviously don't care because it isn't your team, but the NBA has a reputation to uphold, which is that it's the best basketball league in the world. Having teams tanking would damage that reputation.


Why isn't it? I hear that over and over but to me it's just rhetoric. Do we force teams to play their best players every minute of every game? Who says that competing exists only on the per-game basis?

Why not make teams try to win every possession or every quarter? We don't do this for several reasons but mostly because winning a quarter is irrelevant, winning the game is more important. But how many times do they tell us that winning the game is irrelevant, winning it all is what really matters? If a team feels they need to be really bad in order to become really good, it seems to me that the spirit of competition would force us to support that idea.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1279 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:54 am

Zelaznyrules wrote:Why isn't it? I hear that over and over but to me it's just rhetoric. Do we force teams to play their best players every minute of every game? Who says that competing exists only on the per-game basis?

Why not make teams try to win every possession or every quarter?
We don't do this for several reasons but mostly because winning a quarter is irrelevant, winning the game is more important. But how many times do they tell us that winning the game is irrelevant, winning it all is what really matters? If a team feels they need to be really bad in order to become really good, it seems to me that the spirit of competition would force us to support that idea.

That wasn't my point at all. Obviously the NBA doesn't have the power to enforce rules like healthy stars have to play a min of 40mpg. I'm talking about not rewarding that type of anti-competitive behaviour. Why can't the NBA fight tanking by changing up the odds so it's less top heavy?
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#1280 » by sunsbum » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:58 am

QuickLikeTheo wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:Please, some team please, offer Eric a contract. Who cares, make it 4/55 or whatever. Just do something so that we can match and move on from this silly situation.

Nothing against Bledsoe (and I know you can't compare sports) but no way in hell should Bledsoe make more than Patrick Peterson (who is basically the face of the cardinals and a real franchise player).


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